Abortion

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Right? Wrong? Why?

Also, explain your reasoning.  If you're going to say something vague like, "It's not human yet," why? What are the qualifications for being human?

Also, this may be an open discussion, but I have a definite stance on the issue, and I'll be attempting to refute opposing arguments.

That said, let's begin.

[a-4-year-old]

Wrong, ripping a fetus out of a womb is the worst way to solve a problem.

[Toumaz]

I'm for the option to choose. Whatever you then do it or not is really up to the parents.
Not that I'm saying it's not irresponsibility from the parents' side. Use a goddamn condom if you want to avoid getting children and you won't even have to bother with the hassle of abortion in the end. Win/win.

Wrong, ripping a fetus out of a womb is the worst way to solve a problem.

Here's the obligatory 'How so?'.

[truup]

Use a goddamn condom if you want to avoid getting children and you won't even have to bother with the hassle of abortion in the end. Win/win.

Indeed. Just a few euro/dollar, and it can prevent such a mess. :O

[a-4-year-old]

Wrong, ripping a fetus out of a womb is the worst way to solve a problem.

Here's the obligatory 'How so?'.

i have to explain?

I don't think you should kill a fetus because you made a mistake.

[DePhille]

This is an exact example of where to put COMMON SENSE in the law.
It is not possible to draw a line between being "cells" and "human", so you'll have to take other things into account. This could be compared to the right to kill yourself when you're extremely sick.

What it basically comes down to is that you have to evaluate the situation. For example, condoms aren't 100% safe, there's still a chance your condom has a tiny hole in it or something. In that case, I don't think you can deny abortion. However, when a couple has multiple abortions, you could either deny the abortion or give them the abortion but send them to court or some kind of therapist. Again, it all depends on the situation, I could go on and give a whole bunch of examples, but you all know that there is an unlimited amount of examples.

Grtz, DePhille

[Sgt. Fletcher]

I am against abortion but I still understand people who do it. Pregnancy is a large responsibility (raising a child for long years though you think every day that you actually did not want the child) and there should be a alternative than giving birth... sadly, today the alternative is really immoral.

[DePhille]

Keep in mind that if you deny abortion, there's a big chance the parents won't raise the kid (or atleast not properly).

[Anna]

It's funny that nobody has mentioned the word "woman" up to this point.

A fetus is essentially a parasite. It requires its host's body to survive. Forcing a woman to continue to be pregnant, allowing the fetus to use her body against her will, is in violation of her right to bodily autonomy.

[RabidTreeFrog]

It's funny that nobody has mentioned the word "woman" up to this point.

A fetus is essentially a parasite. It requires its host's body to survive. Forcing a woman to continue to be pregnant, allowing the fetus to use her body against her will, is in violation of her right to bodily autonomy.

If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should use birth control.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

It's funny that nobody has mentioned the word "woman" up to this point.

A fetus is essentially a parasite. It requires its host's body to survive. Forcing a woman to continue to be pregnant, allowing the fetus to use her body against her will, is in violation of her right to bodily autonomy.

Against her will?  The ONLY situation where having a baby is completely against a woman's will is in the case of rape.  Aside from that, if you're going to have sex (the evolutionary goal of which is to produce offspring), you'd better be prepared for the consequences.

[bias warning] I've never heard anyone justify murder because they were fat.  Pregnancy is essentially the same thing.  You alter your body because of a choice that you made.  The only one responsible for it is you.

And it's foolish to say that you can destroy something simply because it's a parasite.  What is a parasite? Something that takes resources and makers no attempt to return in kind.  If that's the case, why can't we just kill babies after they're born?  Babies don't do anything for anyone.  Why don't we just kill those ungrateful jerks?  Or, better yet, why don't we kill all of the adults that are still living with their parents?  There are a lot of people out there who are still supported by their parents, and don't make any effort to get a job or support themselves.  Is that punishable by death also?

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 11:15:35 AM

If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should use birth control.

Or, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.

[SadistAtHeart]

Or, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.

What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?

[DePhille]

Yeah, it isn't exaclty against her will (unless she got raped or something in which case abortion is already legal).
And the line drawn between a fetus and a parasite is a bit too drastic, as {LAW} Gamer_2k4 already mentioned.

Grtz, DePhille

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Or, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.

What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?

Maybe she should wait until then to have sex.  Like I said, actions have consequences.  You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later.  If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.  Otherwise you're just irresponsible.

[Anna]

It's funny that nobody has mentioned the word "woman" up to this point.

A fetus is essentially a parasite. It requires its host's body to survive. Forcing a woman to continue to be pregnant, allowing the fetus to use her body against her will, is in violation of her right to bodily autonomy.

Against her will?  The ONLY situation where having a baby is completely against a woman's will is in the case of rape.  Aside from that, if you're going to have sex (the evolutionary goal of which is to produce offspring), you'd better be prepared for the consequences.

By that logic, we shouldn't treat people who contract sexually transmitted diseases unless they were raped.

[bias warning] I've never heard anyone justify murder because they were fat.  Pregnancy is essentially the same thing.  You alter your body because of a choice that you made.  The only one responsible for it is you.

Wow, fat hate and woman hate together in the same paragraph! Getting an abortion is taking responsibility.

And it's foolish to say that you can destroy something simply because it's a parasite.  What is a parasite? Something that takes resources and makers no attempt to return in kind.  If that's the case, why can't we just kill babies after they're born?  Babies don't do anything for anyone.  Why don't we just kill those ungrateful jerks?  Or, better yet, why don't we kill all of the adults that are still living with their parents?  There are a lot of people out there who are still supported by their parents, and don't make any effort to get a job or support themselves.  Is that punishable by death also?

Already born babies are no longer parasites and no longer require the use of a uterus to survive. The woman can choose to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 11:15:35 AM

If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should use birth control.

Or, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.

Unfortunately, doctors are often unwilling to provide tubal ligations to young and childless women.

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 12:31:17 PM

Or, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.

What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?

Maybe she should wait until then to have sex.  Like I said, actions have consequences.  You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later.  If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.  Otherwise you're just irresponsible.

Yeah, punish those sluts!!

[Xxypher]

I am pro-choice... Let women do what they want to their body.

[LtKillroy]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the word "baby" yet. You say it is the womans choice, but what about the third party? The baby isn't technically "alive" yet, but we all were fetus' once, and I for one am glad my mom didn't get an abortion. It is no longer the womem's right after she sleeps with that guy, she chose to get pregnant even if she didn't want it. STDs are different then pregnancies, treating STDs is saving a life, abortion is taking one.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Against her will?  The ONLY situation where having a baby is completely against a woman's will is in the case of rape.  Aside from that, if you're going to have sex (the evolutionary goal of which is to produce offspring), you'd better be prepared for the consequences.

By that logic, we shouldn't treat people who contract sexually transmitted diseases unless they were raped.

Ok.

[bias warning] I've never heard anyone justify murder because they were fat.  Pregnancy is essentially the same thing.  You alter your body because of a choice that you made.  The only one responsible for it is you.

Wow, fat hate and woman hate together in the same paragraph! Getting an abortion is taking responsibility.

Oh yeah, I clearly HATE both fat people and women. >_>
And getting an abortion isn't taking responsibility.  Getting an abortion is an easy way out from the responsibility you should have had.  Let's say you spilled something on a white wall.  You have two options:
1. Take responsibility and clean up the spill
2. Say "Screw this" and paint over it

Abortion is like the second option.  It's a quick fix because you don't want to the obligations associated with raising a child.  That's not responsibility.

Already born babies are no longer parasites and no longer require the use of a uterus to survive. The woman can choose to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.

And she should do that in the case of any unwanted pregnancy.  Nine months is a small price to pay to give someone else 70 years of life.

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 11:38:20 AM

I am pro-choice... Let women do what they want to their body.

I'm all for that too.  But most women refuse to abort their own bodies.  They'd prefer to abort someone else's.

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 11:39:04 AM

Maybe she should wait until then to have sex.  Like I said, actions have consequences.  You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later.  If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.  Otherwise you're just irresponsible.

Yeah, punish those sluts!!

Ok.

[DePhille]

With all due respect Anna, he didn't directly insult women nor fat people in his post. The only part where he could've messed up was that there's not one but two persons who are responsible (man and woman).

Also, the woman can't decide to 'give' it up for adoption. The parents can (man and woman). And having a baby and then just giving it up for adoption is very selfish for the parents since the baby will have a very tough or any life at all and if everyone'd do that, the state won't have enough money to support all children. You don't have your baby in you as in the singular way, but you have your (plural) baby in you. Born babies require money and lots of time, which still is a form of a parasite but in an indirect way.

I do agree on your other points, especially the last one.

Grtz, DePhille

[SadistAtHeart]

Or, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.

What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?

Maybe she should wait until then to have sex.  Like I said, actions have consequences.  You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later.  If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.  Otherwise you're just irresponsible.

Although abstinence is the best choice for avoiding pregnancy, you must realize that sexual urges are natural; especially so in a growing teen, male or female. It's perfectly normal for somebody to have sex before they decide they want a child.

You're also not taking into account the fact that childbirth is one of the most painful things a woman can go through. Abortion, or the immense pain of childbirth and several thousand dollars a year plus twice as many sleepless nights to raise a baby?