Gun Weight - Important

[Decaying Soldat]

To elaborate dairy's example: The chainsaw and the minigun are already hard to use, why make them even clumsier to handle?

[STM1993]

Recently played in realistic games.



Actually, the realistic balance is relatively balanced, but has a few unbalances in a few weapons, I'm discussing it somewhere else.

The Chainsaw is useless there. Don't have to make it worse.

The Minigun actually has potential but is already considered weak even if I reduced its recoil. Adding weights make it worse.

The Barrett's only reasons to be used over the Ruger in realistic is mainly due to its long range and lack of recoil. But other than that, Barrett is obsolete compared to Ruger. Adding weights will make it worse.

Contrary to popular belief, the Ruger's actually quite balanced (though can be tweaked a bit). It's pretty hard to control and very slow, and once you miss you die. But it makes up for high bullet speed and high damage. Ruger is actually not that popular. We don't have to make the Ruger more powerful, it's powerful enough. Weights only give the Ruger a big advantage. If anything, it's a minor nerf.

[Espadon]

Soldat is an Arena game. Think of Soldat as Quake and not CS. Go play a Tom Clancy game if you want realistic.

Please also note how pretty much all the vets here vote nay while the newcomers are all like 'yey.'

F11 and go write your own game.

[Gotfryd]

The Chainsaw is useless there. Don't have to make it worse.

Did you play trenchwar? Although it may seem ridiculous, chainsaw is useful there! It can be used to retake bunker, I've done it myself, and I've seen many people do it successfully!

The Minigun actually has potential but is already considered weak even if I reduced its recoil. Adding weights make it worse.

I don't understand one thing. Why do you think about this weight feature as a way to make every weapon worse? For example, the minigun. I agree that it is weak. I agree that nerfing it would make it totally useless.
Why is it weak now? Because of recoil, self bink, inaccuracy and start up time. Why it has so much recoil, why is it so inaccurate? because other way it would be too powerful! (real-life minigun compared to all other real-life weapons from soldat would own them all, probably).
Imagine now that we add the minigun a significant weight, so Soldat carrying a minigun would be slow, but we also make minigun more accurate, less self-binked etc. Then it wouldn't be too powerful, since moving fast, jumping, flying and bunnyhopping are very important in soldat, and guy with minigun would be rather easy to hit, an you can escape him also. But when he starts firing, he is really effective. So, minigun would be then useful for holding some place in ctf, or for covering your teammates, but not really for close combat. Like the Barrett in trenchwars (and regular realistic ctf - it is useful for sniping, and not for rushing, since for rushing ruger is way better, as you said)

PS

Please also note how pretty much all the vets here vote nay while the newcomers are all like 'yey.'

If you mean me, since I have written only 35 posts by now, I must say that I'm playing Soldat since version 1.1.5.

[Decaying Soldat]

I'm not gonna quote, but I'm refering to Gotfryd's last post.

Firstly, I agree with you that the chainsaw is useful in trench war, it easily cleans any small bunker with one sweep. But I think STM is refering to the general realistic mode games. I have no idea what that is coz I seldom play realistic games, but I'm sure trench war is only a very small part of Soldat.

Secondly, you are also correct on this, too. Re-balancing the weapons will solve the problem, but not much people want re-balancing. Just ask the beta testers.

So, that's still a no for me.

 

[Espadon]

The Chainsaw is useless there. Don't have to make it worse.

Did you play trenchwar? Although it may seem ridiculous, chainsaw is useful there! It can be used to retake bunker, I've done it myself, and I've seen many people do it successfully!

TW is not R/RS. TW is a linear format obviously benefitting chainsaw while R/RS is not. There's too many possible open vectors in R/RS that using a melee-range weapon means to give yourself a massive handicap. Also, in TW, there are many bunkers, facilitating surprise chainsaw rushes. Most R/RS maps have very few areas that are cramped enough that you can get the jump on someone with the saw.

The Minigun actually has potential but is already considered weak even if I reduced its recoil. Adding weights make it worse.

I don't understand one thing. Why do you think about this weight feature as a way to make every weapon worse? For example, the minigun. I agree that it is weak. I agree that nerfing it would make it totally useless.
Why is it weak now? Because of recoil, self bink, inaccuracy and start up time. Why it has so much recoil, why is it so inaccurate? because other way it would be too powerful! (real-life minigun compared to all other real-life weapons from soldat would own them all, probably).
Imagine now that we add the minigun a significant weight, so Soldat carrying a minigun would be slow, but we also make minigun more accurate, less self-binked etc. Then it wouldn't be too powerful, since moving fast, jumping, flying and bunnyhopping are very important in soldat, and guy with minigun would be rather easy to hit, an you can escape him also. But when he starts firing, he is really effective. So, minigun would be then useful for holding some place in ctf, or for covering your teammates, but not really for close combat. Like the Barrett in trenchwars (and regular realistic ctf - it is useful for sniping, and not for rushing, since for rushing ruger is way better, as you said)

You forgot one thing though. Even if it is really useful, the lag due to the creation of the bullet entities and calculations for arc, etc., is going to make everyone want to votekick the minigun user. One more time: Realistic Soldat is not real life. Stop being a TW boohoo; there are a LOT more people who don't play Tilting War [lol so ironic that I'm saying this, eh]. Besides, in TW, people already lame and whine about spray. Rugerspray, Rettspray, AK/AUG sprays, Minispray, Socomspray, random 'lucker' LAW shots. We really don't NEED the mini as a 'total pwnage' weapon. There are more than enough autos to fulfill all the niches.

Please also note how pretty much all the vets here vote nay while the newcomers are all like 'yey.'

If you mean me, since I have written only 35 posts by now, I must say that I'm playing Soldat since version 1.1.5.

Can't say I'm a newcomer to Soldat when I first registered either. Your attitude will change after a while on the forums.

[-Major-]

no running while reloading, no moving at all if reloading LAW

unless female soldats are added

[tehsnipah]

I would personally say f12 on ONLY realastic mode. Nothing else.

[Gotfryd]

TW is not R/RS. TW is a linear format obviously benefitting chainsaw while R/RS is not. (...)

I agree that TW does not reflect all aspects of R/RS Soldat. That was an example, but... hmm... perhaps you're right.

You forgot one thing though. Even if it is really useful, the lag due to the creation of the bullet entities and calculations for arc, etc., is going to make everyone want to votekick the minigun user.

If I undestand this problem correctly, maybe I have an idea how to solve it: we can replace half of the bullets with faked ones. That is, minigun would fire two times less bullets, while each bullet would look like two bullets, has a sound of two bullets, and damage of two bullets. Since it fires rounds very fast it shouldn't affect gameplay. I've made something like this and attached it to this post, please take a look.
[EDIT] I made changes only in realistic mode [/EDIT]
Unfortunately rendering bullet trais does not work perfectly with this (you can disable it in config), but i'm sure it could be fixed. What do you think about it?

There are more than enough autos to fulfill all the niches.

You're right. That's why I thought it would be interesting if minigun was different and not just "another auto, but with start up time and more ammo".

[Espadon]

You forgot one thing though. Even if it is really useful, the lag due to the creation of the bullet entities and calculations for arc, etc., is going to make everyone want to votekick the minigun user.

If I undestand this problem correctly, maybe I have an idea how to solve it: we can replace half of the bullets with faked ones. That is, minigun would fire two times less bullets, while each bullet would look like two bullets, has a sound of two bullets, and damage of two bullets. Since it fires rounds very fast it shouldn't affect gameplay. I've made something like this and attached it to this post, please take a look. Unfortunately rendering bullet trais does not work perfectly with this (you can disable it in config), but i'm sure it could be fixed. What do you think about it?

That technique has been used for other purposes before, but it's just not proper for official Soldat. How are you going to contend with the shell eject? The effect it creates is even more unrealistic than not having 'weight.'

There are more than enough autos to fulfill all the niches.

You're right. That's why I thought it would be interesting if minigun was different and not just "another auto, but with start up time and more ammo".

It's already 'different,' except it's not different in the way you think it is. It's different because it is the joke gun. It's always been the joke gun in Soldat, so anything else is just ... wrong.

[Gotfryd]

That technique has been used for other purposes before, but it's just not proper for official Soldat. How are you going to contend with the shell eject? The effect it creates is even more unrealistic than not having 'weight.'

I agree that it doesn't look professional..
I suppose that you are against changing minigun stats so it would have fireinterval 6, like MP5 (and not adding any faked bullets)?

I've just realized: I didn't write in previous post that in attached example stats i made changes only in realistic mode. I hope that you'd noticed that

[Bonecrusher]

not needed

F11

[Espadon]

That technique has been used for other purposes before, but it's just not proper for official Soldat. How are you going to contend with the shell eject? The effect it creates is even more unrealistic than not having 'weight.'

I agree that it doesn't look professional..
I suppose that you are against changing minigun stats so it would have fireinterval 6, like MP5 (and not adding any faked bullets)?

In any case, the proposed remedies to that end up making the minigun less minigun-like/realistic/whatever you want to call it than it is currently. Few people choose the minigun anyways purely because of that long reload.

[wolfbr]

F12 in realistic mode, not in normal mode

[Gotfryd]

Few people choose the minigun anyways purely because of that long reload.

Personally I would use minigun in CTF/INF/other teamplay if it were more accurate and had less recoil, regardless of long reload. I often throw out my secondary and pick up a primary, if any lies nearby, so when I'd ran out of minigun's ammo I'd throw it away and use that picked up weapon (actually i often do that with M79). But, of course, this is only my way of doing things.

[STM1993]

Even though weapons discussion should be done in weapons balance, I'd just say something about the minigun:

• In normal, its damage is terrible, though the bink is controllable until it is nearly out of ammo.
• In Realistic, its damage potential is actually good, but it has terrible RECOIL.
• For both, the reload is terribly long.
• For both, they have a startup time. In normal, its terribly long. In realistic, the startup time is considered relatively okay, the main problem is still recoil and you die real fast.
• For both, the minigun can cause major lag, and the bullet register isn't good under laggy conditions.
• You CANNOT throw nades while shooting a minigun (you have to stop to throw), and you CANNOT unprone while firing by pressing the prone button ; you have to turn and face the other direction which wastes lots of ammo or stop firing to unprone
• Some people hate the self-boosting ability of the minigun which pushes you backwards.
• Chances are, you're dead by the time you actually run out of ammo, or you get killed during reload, and it can be troublesome to pick up weapons after throwing away the minigun.

[Gotfryd]

I agree with every point, STM.
I think that in realistic it should be significantly more accurate and have significantly less recoil when crouched/proned. Then it would be reasonable. Look at MP5 - there is a big difference in accuracy and overall shooting experience when proned or crouched, actually when proned it can even do something at long distances

[Espadon]

That's something that should be tweaked in the WM... which... uh, isn't 1.5 MG buffed?

[Nubism]

f11, useless

[homerofgods]

can it be scripted?