1.5.1 WM v23

[Furai]

Cool, M79 with no bink and movementacc. I was wondering why that wasn't done earlier.

I'll be expecting there'll be lots of Aug, Minimi and Spas, M79 and possibly Barrett constant, less of the other primaries, at least initially before people start using other guns like DEs.

I'll be using my favs anyway. No WM will make me do otherwise.

[xurich]

i never seen ruger, desert, ak, in playoff of any tournament

You're right—it's been exceedingly rare to see any of those weapons (and a couple of others as well) used in the playoffs for the past several versions. One of the goals of the 1.5.1 mod is to see much greater diversity in players' choice of weapons.

[-Major-]

hmm... I thought hoodi used ruger and lssnen M79 during sctfl play offs....

[xurich]

Rare is not synonymous with never.

[draco256]

i never seen ruger, desert, ak, in playoff of any tournament

One of the goals of the 1.5.1 mod is to see much greater diversity in players' choice of weapons.

great

[Able]

There are a few things off about the change honestly... But it seems too be a little more fun?

One idea, the LAW has got too be changed? It definetly needs something better.. Like. If you miss, your basically screwed. The USSOCOM has fast as hell reload, can kill quick, knife.. (always has been good) the chainsaw.. Eh, what else can you rly do with that? Fast reload, instakill if it can catch yah..

But the LAW, it is a great weapon, and honestly I love it. But If theres people flying at you, you have more of the "ability" too win with knife or USSOCOM, than the LAW. It needs something like 2 or 3 shots with a slower reload, and a slower fire interval than it has. Possibly?? Think of SOMETHING too mske it good! Please!!! TRY! there'd be a nice/different style of playing then, definetly for me. DInner! woot!

[CheeSeMan.]

The more i play this weapon mod the more I hate it... it seemed nice at the start but it just seems to have made killing people a whole lot easier than it was. Furthermore, any skilled deagle player seems to be able to counter any weapon it deals a ridiculous amount of damage killing a load of times in 2 shots???

Also it really makes no sense to me that mp5/AUG are perfectly fine on long range maps now, rendering the AK/minimi quite useless... AK should win from further range... but distance really doesn't seem to matter in this mod..

The socom also seems overpowered... its like having an mp5!

I don't really know how to explain but it just makes no sense to me, especially removing selfbink which just makes the game hold your mouse button down!

[edit] Just to say that i was playing the wm located on #soldat.gather which apparently is outdated... anyhows if any of my comments still apply who knows i'll test the newest one later!

[Clawbug]

CheeSeMan.; Few points:

- Maps:
  These days maps are created for 3v3 or 4v4 games mainly. Many of the "new"(ctf_Ash, ctf_Nuubia, ctf_Dropdown2, ctf_Steel) official CTF suit perfectly for this. What this means is that nowadays there is much less need for long-range AK/AUG than there was before(e.g. ctf_Run, ctf_B2b, ctf_Viet, all of which were still very actively played in clanwars). The result? Most combat(these days) happens from very short distances, usually just running towards and passing enemies. Hence why there is less need for long-ranged weapons. Their effectiveness and benefits over say, Spas, m79 or MP5 have diminished during the past few versions.

- Secondaries:
  The idea of "new" way to handle the game to make it more "fair" to add startuptime to LAW and Knife has slowed down the game very much. I still haven't understood the idea behind this. It has several disadvantages: 1. It slows down the gameplay. (This is even more of a problem in the "new" and smaller maps where gameplay is even faster than before). 2. It promotes camping(with LAW). 3. It promotes defensive playstyle which already gives several advantages and thus makes the game much less fun to play.

- History and what made 1.2 "the best":
Drastic changes between 1.5 and 1.2:
1. Startuptime for LAW, Barrett and knife.
2. More emphasis on automatics(1.2 and 1.2.1 were dominated by Deagles(and Mp5 to some extent))
3. Slower gameplay due to much less powerful weapons, this shifts the focus from weapons to grenades
4. Artificial limitations to counter camping, spraying and to bring in new challenges(bink, selfbink)

...all of which are negative in my eyes. Reasoning?
1. Removing startuptime from all weapons(yes, even Minigun) would greatly increase the unpredictability of situations, make tides turn in even most helpless situations and generally bring in new excitement to the game.

2. Less emphasis on automatics since they are the easiest to handle and most reliable. Instead emphasis should be put on less reliable weapons(e.g. Barrett, Ruger, Deagles) to encourage people to take risks and really master their weapons, rather than just being "good enough" with them.

3. More powerful weapons. Deagles to kill with 2 hits? No problem. 1.2 was just fine. Ask any oldie who played actively back then. Infact, we were able to produce 1-hit-kill with Deagles with some nade boosting and headshot. This moves the focus from grenades to weapons, makes the choice of weapon matter more and even reduces the abuse of polybugs with grenades. This works well with e.g. delayless Barrett, no bink needed even. Simple, fast, and most importantly FUN.

4. No such artificial limitations should be implemented. Bink doesn't make it harder to aim. It reduces the chance for the bullet to go where you want it to go. This sucks: 1. Not realistic and makes no sense. 2. Sometime it works, sometime it doesn't. Selfbink on the other hand is useless because it can be countered with tapping which is not a problem at all, but it renders selfbink useless feature.

What I would want to see in the new WM? More powerful weapons, less delays, less focus on grenades, LOOKING AT THE STATISTICS instead of asking few well known players to fix the flaws in the WM. Also, implementing a fixed WM for SCTFL/gathers! Heck, this has been promised to be done numerous times before(e.g. TNL 3, "When cold_fusion has the WM ready" saga) without any notable success.

Edit: Oh, and yes. Socom deals more damage per second than AK or AUG(I've done the math and posted the tables to this forum). Does this make any sense? Certainly not!

[Astray]

Would someone care to explain what a -1 moveacc is and how it'll effect DE? I don't like the interval decrease since it's supposed to be the fastest semi-auto primary, there's no need for it when it's still difficult to compete with autos even with a damage increase. The gun needs more buffs to get back to where it was like back in 1.2 where 2 headshots = kill. I like the damage increase, they're a tough weapon to master and you should be rewarded for that effort. It should be 2 head shots = kill, 3 body shots = kill for DE (at the same firing interval that it has for 1.5.0 or 1.2) and 1 head shot + 1 body shot = kill for ruger. in order to compete with spas (damage is too large even at long range), AK (works very well in the current game as it is), and minimi (which certainly doesn't need a damage increase). I like what clawbug was saying about removing start up times and what not since 1.2.x was the best version of soldat in my opinion.