Official Soldat Forums
Soldat Talk => Weapon Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Horang on March 20, 2007, 07:18:34 pm
-
M79 and Barret can't even be compared to the Socom in terms of balance, this pistol is in a league of it's own for what it's meant to be.
Playing in a realistic server earlier, I was getting maybe 4 or 5 kills to 1 death only using this pistol. This was against all sorts of weapons. Steyr, AK, M79 etc etc. Hell, I was killing Deagle users easier than they were killing me.
They didn't suck either. This weapon needs to be looked at as it is way too powerful for just a secondary weapon.
-
its a sidearm, it should be much less accurate thats all.
then it would still fill it's purpose (finishing people off/sidearm for 1htklz)
-
Out of all the weapons, you choose the Socom? Seriously now... someone else made a thread about it here a while ago, too... :-\
Well, in the current experimental balance, the Socom has 1 point less damage, if that makes you happy. 1 point actually has a bigger difference than you think, due to how damage is actually calculated in Soldat.
-
Socom rocks the boat....Its true. But when you compare it to the LAW, Knife, and Chainsaw...(in terms of the One hit killz) you can see the reason why its so powerful.
In a deathmatch/small map game, the socom is the best gun to carry, simply because it does the job. The socom is powerful, only because its better than the M79, or Barret.
Tip: Carry a socom with any auto/Barret....If you miss a shot, whip out your ( Don't get dirty thoughts ::) ) Socom, and blast his ass (hey, I made a rhyme!!). 2-3 shots garuntee that he won't get far....maybe pop him one again, just incase.
-
Ha ha, yeah right...
Nerf the Socom after you take care of the Barrett and M79.
-
In a deathmatch/small map game, the socom is the best gun to carry, simply because it does the job.
Disagree, I think that in a small game the knife is best, in übersmall games the saw, medium the socom and large maps the LAW or socom does best.
While the socom is good for finishing it really doesn't hurt much with each shot. You will not beat a good AK player with a socom.
-
Socom rocks the boat....Its true. But when you compare it to the LAW, Knife, and Chainsaw...(in terms of the One hit killz) you can see the reason why its so powerful.
In a deathmatch/small map game, the socom is the best gun to carry, simply because it does the job. The socom is powerful, only because its better than the M79, or Barret.
Tip: Carry a socom with any auto/Barret....If you miss a shot, whip out your ( Don't get dirty thoughts ::) ) Socom, and blast his ass (hey, I made a rhyme!!). 2-3 shots garuntee that he won't get far....maybe pop him one again, just incase.
i believe (in my opinion) from using knife the most, i feel better using it then socom :P i used to use socom 99% of time and started using knife, just the feel of tossing that sucker in someones eye :P
-
i always use the SOCOM, as soon as my primary is down and iam under fire i wip out the little bastered and get a few quick kills... either that or its good just to use as a primary by itself if you can manage that.
-
Well I do find socom to be a reliable weapon and it is one of my favorites, but I must disagree with the opinion that it is THE best weapon to make use of. To say, if you are going up against a mp5 and you can't adjust your aim quick enough to match your opponent's positioning then the spraying from that second weapon, the mp5 (if I got it right) is sure enough to do away with you. Plus another thing to keep in mind is that, although it's good for a side weapon, it's range is the porrest out of the regular weapons (that excludes the spaz flank cannon #5, m79, law and knife) by slight. If anything, as iDante has said, it's a good finishing weapon. I would use it occasionally when I would want to appear unarmed with a lack of nades and a primary weapon to pop up with a socom. But I would not place my life on it as a first thought.
Note that this is comming from someone who's favorite weapon is the socom. It has reasonable range regardless of what it falls short of. It's the second fastest loading weapon (the first being #5 spaz I believe since one moment of reloading can set up for a shot). I know that in realistic, 4 hits from the socom can kill. I wonder if 2 headshots can do the same. And 12 shots can suffice for a good finisher after supplying damage with another weapon that has run out of amunition. =P
-
SOCOM is comparable to the Deagles.
SOCOM needs self bink.
SOCOM is too overpowered, yet underused.
If the socom was given selfbink, or something that made it less accurate.. I'd be fine with it, but in it's current state I think it is to powerful.
-
I believe it is fine. Its slow bullet speed, 'less damage than an HK' aspect and slower firing rate makes it a sturdy weapon to use.
If it was to become a Primary, however, It should be more like a Raptor 5.0 and fire faster bullets with more strength.
-
Maybe it could need some movement acc. but that's it.
-
Why would you want to nerf a gun that is pretty much unused?
Whatever, just because it's a sidearm doesn't mean it has to suck.
-
Eh i hate all sidearms... I carry an aug with another aug or an aug with a spas... I make it a point to drop my sidearm when ever i kill someone using a weapon i need so's i can pick theres up and own 2xs more than usual lol.
But alot of the time i forget which one im currently using and try to fire a spas like an aug lol I usually die at that point.
-
Why would you want to nerf a gun that is pretty much unused?
Whatever, just because it's a sidearm doesn't mean it has to suck.
It doesn't have to suck. It does, however, need to be balanced, and it's a little too powerful right now. I actually like Zamorak's self-bink suggestion -- adding just a little self-bink would help offset its big magazine and insanely fast reload.
-
I prefer to use the saw as it's shock tactics work well with my Minimi, plus the chainsword gives it a good Warhammer feel.
I really don't have a problem with the SOCOM, as it balences out the one-hit-kill weapons.
-
the socom is definitely the most powerful secondary, though many would claim that it's lack of 1-hittiness is crippling compared to the other weapons, i would argue that LAW has a huuuge reload time and often doesn't register, you have to go and find your knife after you throw it and it's only 1 hit within a certain range, if you hold it down (unless you're a long way above someone) and saw has to actually connect with the enemy's soldat and is not 1-hit however you want to call it, it's just very heavy rapid fire. socom is quick loading, has range and can often kill before a knife hits.
-
socom is fine the way it is. Yes it is a powerful weapon but on the flip side its really hard to make 6 hits. There is virtually no weapon that is harder to use than socom(I hope I'm right). and the pro and cons balance out perfectly
-
Yeah, it is a very powerful weapon but you need pretty decent judgement to use it. If your shooting at someone further away the bullets will become useless as they curve a **** load. It's only very effective when your enemy is closer.
-
I use it when I'm tryin to M79 someone. I pop a quick shot for a base assault with the M79 for clearing, then rush in with the Socom. That's when the fun starts.
It is indeed a VERY useful weapon, and can be used like a primary. Hell, I owned a spraying MP5 straight in the face with it in DM a few days ago. And he was hitting me plenty, too.
It could very well be unbalanced, but I like it. Just like the M1 Garand in Call of Duty Multiplayer: It's EXTREMELY UNBALANCED, but very fun to own with. No one can stand up to it. It's UBER accurate and fires faster than the pistols do. And it does a huge amount of damage: Two shots.
Otherwords: If you play Call of Duty Multiplayer, be American whenever possible. The M1 Garand is the best weapon in the game.
-
it's easy to hit with the socom, excruciator.. have you used any of the other weapons?
anyway, I've been playing around with bots, testing stuff, and i realized that the socom actually kills slightly faster than the eagles. ???
-
it all depends on the user. To me, it's a pretty hard weapon. and I think a lot of people feels the same way
its a lot easier to make 2 hits than 6, and its much easier to use a gun that fires a straight shot than the one that makes a curve
-
I think that it's good as it is. In real Socom is usually used as primary weapon (with LAM module) because of it's power (.45 ACP) and size (2.29 kg, loaded, with suppressor and LAM/421 mm with suppressor). With silencer and LAM module (laser light visible only in NV) is's perfect weapon for stealth killing.
-
This is regarding the realistic ussocom
well in my opinion the ussocom is a bit too powerfull, I want it a little nerfed but only slightly since the other secondaries are 1 hit kill.
what ussocom is made for is to finish people off or to spray an area to cause bink to possible snipers.
so a little less dmg would be great. as it is now ussocom is better than many primary weapons (this is only in close combat scenes) since it is almost recoil less.
-
only slightly since the other secondaries are 1 hit kill.
no they aren't. saw is rapid fire. also, LAW has major registering problems (as well as a killer reload) and you have to collect your knife, which won't instant kill unless it's thrown hard from close up, or it's thrown from a long way above.
its a lot easier to make 2 hits than 6, and its much easier to use a gun that fires a straight shot than the one that makes a curve
I'd argue against both of those points. arcs aren't hard to calculate and they add the ability to take people behind cover, and six shots in rapid succession are much better for killing low health enemies or enemies with binc affected weapons, also there's a greater chance of hitting the more shots you can fire in any period of time.
-
only slightly since the other secondaries are 1 hit kill.
no they aren't. saw is rapid fire. also, LAW has major registering problems (as well as a killer reload) and you have to collect your knife, which won't instant kill unless it's thrown hard from close up, or it's thrown from a long way above.
if you read some of this topics content you will find that we are talking about the realistic ussocom and therefor the realistic weapons. knife can just be taped to instantly kill your opponent.
-
fair enough, but it's easier to lose. :P
Socom is overpowered in normal and realistic modes and does not take six hits to kill in realistic, as excruciator suggested.
-
fair enough, but it's easier to lose. :P
Socom is overpowered in normal and realistic modes and does not take six hits to kill in realistic, as excruciator suggested.
untill people start to get massacred by socom on servers....i'd say it's not overpowered.
just because you died twice from a socom doesn't mean it's overpowered i hope. :)
-
... I well your reasoning is utterly flawed. It is overpowered, the fact that people aren't using it as a primary, because of the m79, spaz, ruger and steyr is irrelevant. It's a secondary weapon and unlike every other secondary, it is better than some primaries.
-
fair enough, but it's easier to lose. :P
Socom is overpowered in normal and realistic modes and does not take six hits to kill in realistic, as excruciator suggested.
untill people start to get massacred by socom on servers....i'd say it's not overpowered.
just because you died twice from a socom doesn't mean it's overpowered i hope. :)
#38, just a few days ago 80% of all kills in the kill log was by ussocom. it is a bit overpowered but the damage should just be lowered slightly.
also I sometimes uses it as primary since it is really powerful in close combat vs autos.
-
how is it better than primary? dont talk to me like ive never used socom. its arc with the small clip way overweigh the somewat superior damage which mightve looked good on paper. as ive said, its not overpowered just because you lack the skill to beat a socom with a primary.
if it truly was overpowered, don't you think other people would have noticed it's supremacy over other guns as of now? so far only you two whiners are complaining probably just because you lack the skill.
if a weapon is overpowered, you wouldn't need to set out a journey to convince the majority of the players, it would be crystal clear to us all.
Date Posted: May 15, 2007, 07:19:17 am
fair enough, but it's easier to lose. :P
Socom is overpowered in normal and realistic modes and does not take six hits to kill in realistic, as excruciator suggested.
untill people start to get massacred by socom on servers....i'd say it's not overpowered.
just because you died twice from a socom doesn't mean it's overpowered i hope. :)
#38, just a few days ago 80% of all kills in the kill log was by ussocom. it is a bit overpowered but the damage should just be lowered slightly.
also I sometimes uses it as primary since it is really powerful in close combat vs autos.
that's bullshit, i've been playing soldat since 1.2 and not once have i noticed over 10% of the kill in any servers are socom, let a lone 80%. show some proof, otherwise stop making up statistics.
oh and guess what? my knife is a more dangerous weapon at middle to close range. i can probably carve you up with nothing but knife, would that make it overpowered too?
the bottom line is, no matter primary or secondary, it's still a weapon. it's meant to rank up kills. just because you occasionally got killed by a socom while you had half of your ak steyr clip gone doesn't make it unbalanced.
-
realmode beta testers did think that the socom was overpowered as well. That is why it was nerfed. took it from 172 in dmg to 150 in dmg.
-
probobly you have to nerf it a little more, with maybe 8 dmg?
#38 I dont usualy get killed by ussocom but I kill with it too easily. I often put down my main weapon and draws my ussocom instead because it is better and easier.
oh and in 1.2 I played 4 vs 1 with ussocom -__-.
-
#38: this is not a bragging contest, this is a balance discussion, saying that we have no skill, despite not ever having seen us play, is pretty much like shouting "Hi everybody, I'm a noob-assed troll!". Don't call me a whiner, I am stating my opinion on a secondary weapon which is genuinely more effective than the desert eagles in virtually any situation. I certainly don't often die by socom, but from running tests with bots, it is overpowered. Also, your argument that it is difficult to hit with the socom is pretty much also condemning yourself of being utterly unskilled.
Oh, personally, instead of taking down the damage of the socom, I'd bump up the fire interval.
-
I did not say that to brag. at that time I never used ussocom because it wasmega overpowerd. and I showed them that ussocom was overpowerd. also the ussocom is not a damage dealer it is a pinning gun. it is supposed to have a low damage or else you can do it to a primary weapon.
-
youre making no sense general, if none of us are getting killed by socom, then wats the problem? i assumed you die from them often my friend; why else would you complain? and wat tests do you run youre not a beta tester, and i see youre struggling to make complex sentence structure to cover up the ignorance and flaw in your ideas and arguments
-
I did not say that to brag. at that time I never used ussocom because it wasmega overpowerd.
I was referring to #38 claiming he could pwn either of us. I severely doubt that he could and he has nothing to back his noobish egotistic rantings up.
@ #38: My sentences are perfectly structured, thank you very much. If you don't understand my post, go back to kindergarten. I see you're not just struggling to write structured sentences, you're failing to spell "what" and "you're" as well as being completely inept at use of grammar in general.
I know I'm not a beta tester, does that mean that I should not question the balance? I am a player and it matters to me. If it does not matter to you, perhaps you shouldn't be here. I don't may not get killed often by socom, but I get killed less often with saws, knives and LAWs and after looking into it, the socom is actually superior to the deagles, whether people often utilize it or not.
-
I'm not too concerned with Realistic mode, but the Soccom pays it's dues for me no matter what situation I'm in.
Do I think it's too powerful? No. During CTF matches when I have an empty AK clip, I have to use 75-90% of the Soccom clip to waste someone. The accuracy is a bit poor, but that seems reasonable considering how accurate the other weapons are.
It's naturally all about accuracy, and how you handle your weapon. The LAW/knife/chainsaw can kill someone instantaneously. So give the Soccom some credit.
I haven't been around Realistic mode for a while now. But I do know it takes up to 30-50% of a clip to nail someone dead-on. It's fair enough. If you have a AUG against the Soccom, and the opponent kills you first, it's not that the Soccom is too powerful, is you suck at landing more beads than him.
If everyone's observation serves to be justified, the only con of the Soccom is accuracy. But whatever rocks your boat.
-
I'd have to go against what seems to be the general thought here. Not that I think the socom needs more power, I just don't really think it needs less. Its often enough I like to play as a sniper and the Socom comes in handy when getting rushed and you miss with the sniper. Just whoop it out and blast away and pray you were quick enough. MAYBE I could see making it a LITTLE less accurate but certainly not less powerful.
-
I did not say that to brag. at that time I never used ussocom because it wasmega overpowerd.
I was referring to #38 claiming he could pwn either of us. I severely doubt that he could and he has nothing to back his noobish egotistic rantings up.
@ #38: My sentences are perfectly structured, thank you very much. If you don't understand my post, go back to kindergarten. I see you're not just struggling to write structured sentences, you're failing to spell "what" and "you're" as well as being completely inept at use of grammar in general.
I know I'm not a beta tester, does that mean that I should not question the balance? I am a player and it matters to me. If it does not matter to you, perhaps you shouldn't be here. I don't may not get killed often by socom, but I get killed less often with saws, knives and LAWs and after looking into it, the socom is actually superior to the deagles, whether people often utilize it or not.
i'm so sorry, your grammer is so much superior to me, this concluded our argument and proved you the winner.
OH LOOK, I MISSPELLED GRAMMAR, OMG!!!!! I AM SUCH A NOOB
let me clear what i meant to say in my kindergarten language because i really just don't have the time to care about grammar unlike some other people. i said you probably lack the skill if you are the only player in almost the entire soldat game world that believes socom is overpowered.
i guess i could understand how you would think i was bragging, based on the assumption that we are all like you and call others "nooblisticly wrong". i didn't mean to seemingly brag or boast at all. i simply wanted to say that i never found to have big problems combating socom.
now let me restate my logic, without you twisting it and "insulting" me with such harsh language such as noob and nooblistic ways.
if the weapon is overpowered, then i'm sure there would be TONS of more players who complain, even if i would never agree it's overpowered.
the fact is, almost none of us are getting massacred by it while you are saying socom is "killing 80%" of the server population.
of course, silly me, on "ignorant" assumption, i would think you SUCK ****ING ASS, AND NEEDS TO ****ING PRACTICE IF YOU KEEP GETTING OWNED BY SOCOM, NONE OF US HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT. but as you can see, i am completely wrong, you are obviously a skilled beta tester in disguise of being a regularly whiner, because you have said many times, that you have personally TESTED socom, and statisticly proven that it is overpowered.
this is so embarrassing for me
but I get killed less often with saws, knives and LAWs and after looking into it, the socom is actually superior to the deagles, whether people often utilize it or not.
i 100% agree with you, deagle, saw, knives, and laws all takes more skills to use.
For "noobs: use socom if you just don't care, it's just a video game anyway, if you suck with other weapons, just massacre them with socom.
-
It was not me who said it kills 80% of the server population, it was -major-, I do not know if that is true and it seems a little far fetched to me too. I also never called you "nooblistic" or "nooblisticly wrong", because my head is not full of ejaculation, so please don't put words into my mouth. I'm sure you think you're really cool and your sarcasm skillz are awesome, I've stated my opinion in this thread and I have no need to argue with an utter illiterate troll who has nothing better to do than flame my ability to piece sentences together and deny facts without putting them to the test.
-
Socom beats AK and Minimi in damage per second, you can use it as much as you want, has fast reload and all. Nice weapon, way too accurate and powerful.
-
the socom is actually superior to the deagles,
Not true. I've never been beaten by a SOCOM'er when I've had my deagles. Never. As a deagle-user I do know that the SOCOM doesn't pack the same punch the deagles do. On the other hand it fires more often and can fire more, not to talk about the reloadtime which is much shorter than the deagles. This, however, does not make it superior.
-
the socom is actually superior to the deagles,
Not true. I've never been beaten by a SOCOM'er when I've had my deagles. Never. As a deagle-user I do know that the SOCOM doesn't pack the same punch the deagles do. On the other hand it fires more often and can fire more, not to talk about the reloadtime which is much shorter than the deagles. This, however, does not make it superior.
agreed, if all bullets from both parties hits, deagle would still win against socom
also, if y'all think that socom is that powerful, why dont I see tons socom users running around? why dont you guys use it as a primary?
-
The Socom was good, and still is. The changes they made are kinda cosmetic. It is not overpowered. I kill most of players that use socom, if I have a clip in my Minimi / Ak/ Steyr / Spass/Ruger. I know that it takes decent skill for such a player to kill me before I kill him and I accept it. You don't see the whole lot of Socom users anyway. It's either my mistake that I got killed or the enemies skill, or both. Stop whining, please.
-
SOCOM only seems good because of when people use it, last shots close quarters.
It can't do dick in long range.
Do you want us to nerf it to the point it takes a million shots to kill? Then it will become unrealistic.
-
yes ussocom should only be for finnishing off people with low hp and not be abel to kill in 3 hits.
-
I've encountered a few players that use the SOCOM as their primary weapon, and they do remarkably well. Examining the weapon balance, I think it's a better weapon overall than the Deagle. Given this is supposed to be a secondary, the SOCOM may be unbalanced.
-
Given this is supposed to be a secondary, the SOCOM may be unbalanced.
However, all the other secondaries are one-hit killers. I can kill someone much faster with one well-aimed knife than someone's who's trying to hunt me down with just a socom.
-
Not true. I've never been beaten by a SOCOM'er when I've had my deagles. Never. As a deagle-user I do know that the SOCOM doesn't pack the same punch the deagles do. On the other hand it fires more often and can fire more, not to talk about the reloadtime which is much shorter than the deagles. This, however, does not make it superior.
The only thing the deagle has over the SOCOM is range and given that it's main use is as a mid range weapon, that isn't really much of a factor in this.
agreed, if all bullets from both parties hits, deagle would still win against socom
Try it some time. You're wrong, socom kills first, unless it is the distance is near the end of the socom's range, which, as I said, is not really a likely situation, a socom wielder will close range as fast as he can when facing deagles.
However, all the other secondaries are one-hit killers. I can kill someone much faster with one well-aimed knife than someone's who's trying to hunt me down with just a socom.
If you think that the chainsaw is a one hit killer, you shouldn't be posting here. Also, knife has start up time and low range, while LAW has a killer reload time and is really, really badly effected by non-registering explosions. Socom is in a higher tier than the other secondaries.
Also, it doesn't take much skill to dodge the majority of LAW shells, knives and saw maniacs.
-
Try it some time. You're wrong, socom kills first, unless it is the distance is near the end of the socom's range, which, as I said, is not really a likely situation, a socom wielder will close range as fast as he can when facing deagles.
Try it yourself sometime. Deagles are hells minions at close range.
Also, it doesn't take much skill to dodge the majority of LAW shells, knives and saw maniacs.
I would want to see you dodge those. I am not exactly a pro with those weapons myself but some knifers can really mess you up, even from long range.
-
but you cant really compare law and knife and saw with socom
the range balance the yin-yang of saw
the range and startup and "oh-damn-I-missed-now-I-have-to-go-and-pick-it-up" compensate knifes power
the endless reload, the delay and the crouching balance law's massive damage and splash
-
However, all the other secondaries are one-hit killers. I can kill someone much faster with one well-aimed knife than someone's who's trying to hunt me down with just a socom.
If you think that the chainsaw is a one hit killer, you shouldn't be posting here. Also, knife has start up time and low range, while LAW has a killer reload time and is really, really badly effected by non-registering explosions. Socom is in a higher tier than the other secondaries.
Also, it doesn't take much skill to dodge the majority of LAW shells, knives and saw maniacs.
Every weapon can be affected by lag, it's just that the person getting chainsawed sometimes escapes between shots, but the increased firerate fixed that, but hits not registering are more common to it than the other weapons. Please don't insult me.
It doesn't take much skill to dodge the socom, either. The socom is a semi-automatic weapon that has a low range and medium damage. Range is definitely a factor here, contrary to what you said. Just stay away and you'll be fine. I've never been taken down by a pure socomer before, I've only been finished off by one when I'm at low health. If it's so overpowered and easy to use, then why don't you try going a whole CTF or DM game using only the socom and see if you come out on top?
-
Every weapon can be affected by lag, it's just that the person getting chainsawed sometimes escapes between shots, but the increased firerate fixed that, but hits not registering are more common to it than the other weapons. Please don't insult me.
It's a short range auto, not a 1 hit.
Maybe when there are more 1.41 servers up in my low ping range I'll take you up on that, but as is, there are no DM or CTF. I've won big DMs with only knife, so it wouldn't prove anything. Really, just get a boogie man or a willing test subject and time yourself killing him with socom and deagles from different ranges. You have to be almost at edge screen before deagles overtake socom, with more shots it also becomes much easier to take down low health foes or keep an enemy pinned.