Official Soldat Forums
Soldat Fans => Clan Discussion => Topic started by: Mitak on November 02, 2007, 08:53:09 am
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Hi there Soldat klickers :D
Next stop - the Clan Discussion Forum >:O
Introducing: Anger and rebellion.
So here I am, in the clan discussion part of the big Internet village of Soldat.
Today, kids, I'm going to flame and hate you about clanshi*... clanship...
What's a clan anyway? According to Wikipedia - our beloved noob guide about life, a clan is a group of people united by kinship.
There can really be kinship through the Internet? If one is so fooled to trust some random net guy and obey his interests under the excuse that
"There's no such thing as obeying!" Soldat unites them so taking clan members for brainless obeying sheeps is ridicilous!!!
Hey pal, it's Mitak here to prove that's wrong. Joining someone random's clan and letting him command you DOES make you a sheep after all!
Ranks... haha, ranks, my dear friends are created to humiliate a soldier and make him easier to control thanks to the jerarchy system.
I think we live in a free world and all people are equal? Then why are there still ranks? Why are there religions? Why do you get flamed every time
you SHARE AN OPINION about someone's play? I thought we live in a free world where you can express your opinions freely and not get hated for that
from lifeless-nothing-else-to-do-ers.
You might say I'm taking it too serious. Yes, that's correct - I do. And there should be somebody who cares among the mass of careless people, right?
A clan... So let's say you join it - if it's new and you're the first to volunteer, you have more chance to get in - the clan doesn't have members yet.
We're talking about the homemade clans here (That pop up every day on the Clan Recruitment section). I understand the idea, guys, but... Seriously.
It's getting boring. I don't know - maybe it's just me who can't stay in one place for too long. It's in my nature - I like my freedom and so should you!
Jeez, dude... Look at that oosam new klan det's on da 1st page rite now! Let's join omg! - This is the way most of the newbs act. Yes, many of us understand the
feeling to enter a clan for the first time. Personally I have nothing against the feeling - to try, to explore the clan, to SEE it. But just for once or twice. Then it
gets stupid. I suppose many of you are more adventureous than I am and will change clans with haste just to get that "entering a new clan" feeling and living through
new experiences. Admit it - with time it gets frustrating and stressing and you search for the next clan... one more and one more... until you realize you've so far changed
5+ clans for less than a month. And you do that just to forget about previous mistakes made in other clans, to run away from failure... Or probably to clear your name.
About me? I've only been in 2 clans - my own one that suffered hard failure due to offline members and the second one was the 101st TW clan. I left it because I love my freedom more. Back then I loved the military style and ranks. Now I hate them - they're just some lousy stripes on your arm that can humiliate a human to unknown levels.
I realize that many of you clan members will try to refute this. I love good and well realized clans. I hate worthless, without an idea or prespective clans that serve as
some newb's lame and futureless vain ambition to feel what is like to be in a clan. So I'm here to explain what clanwork is and how useless it is to join a clan, since every
Soldat player in your team can take the same position as a clanmate, without the need of being connected to a clan and its members.
So you passed the test and joined the clan. Good Job, my fella. Amen. Now it's time for some real work - get your taunts working and we'll see you on the battlefield.
Some (Often caring) clan leaders take it in so deeply that they require from their soldiers to have mIRC, Teamspeak, Xfire and so on. Most of the time, when there's a good deal of
clan members, some of them will constantly be on or offline... for some reasons or another... Why, oh why do you need to poison your own life with that?
Why do you have to spend countless hours in waiting for a lazy clan member to get online?
So... you're ranked and told to obey the clan leader's and higher-raking teammates' commands. Who are they to tell you what to do? Nobody has the right to do that in REAL life, and we speak about relations through the INTERNET...
Now, you're in the hands of someone unknown who will test your skills. One wrong movement and you're out of the clan for good. You become known as the lamer noob,
if playing against another clan or just random people. You ruin the clan's reputation. Here comes the humiliating part - since you have an "agreement" with the clan, you now
must apologise for all trouble caused (to unknown net people that don't give a feck about you) and suffer pure humiliation begging over the Internet for mercy.
Now, none of that has happened to me. I prefer to stay aside and just examine one clan's relations. I've seen a lot, if not, I wouldn't be writing this text.
Dear God, what happens if you try to quit the clan! Even with only 1 week in a particular clan, you leave some feelings in your clanmates - you know that parting is never easy
and most people are acting/overacting emo nowadays. You'll "hurt" the poor fellows, you'll leave a gap in the clan and thus you'll later suffer hate and irritating questions from the wounded ones.
Your solo carreer can be screwed too, once you've screwed a clan, it's you alone against who knows how many people. They can turn bad stares at you faster and more effective than you can against them.
This clanshi* is getting on my nerves lately, as many people offer me to enter their new-born clans. I spam the hell out of the server with all that anti-clan propaganda, and poor emos just leave :D
I meet heavy support among most of the Soldat players. A large number of them think that "Clans are for people who can't play on their own". I agree partially with that.
I must admit - there are amazing clans whose teamwork and achievements I can only admire. Unfortunately, these long-lasting ones are rare. Just look at the Clan Recruitment
section and you'll understand me. Every day, numerous number of clans pop up on the front page. Lost in their minds, newbs stick to the first clan they see, not being aware of the sharp
Soldat spear that awaits to penetrate deeply into their skin and leave a large wound that will heal only when one realises that there is no need of clans. This scar will turn into a sort of blessing
and will stay on their skin to remind them of their previous experiences.
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Maybe because you're not skilled enough to get into a clan that doesent suck, or havent applied for one.
That whole obeying by the rules is the same as in real life. If you join a club or a group, you have to expect to obey by those rules or be tossed out.
I have never seen a person having to appologize for loosing a match. Someone always have to loose, for someone else to win.
The newbie clans will always be around. I dont see any problem with it.
When I was a newb, I joined a newbie clan where we all played together with equal low skill, and it was fun to find such people.
When i got more skilled, I got into more serious clans with players of more skill. Thats how it should be. There should always be an option for people that wish to join clans, regardless of their skill.
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Thank you so much for taking time to read all that :D
I understand your point of view, I'm skilled enough to pass a good clan's test with normal or minimal difficulties - the problem is the way you feel yourself - I fell myself as a solo player and that's also my image in real life. My parents always tell me that solo isn't a winning choice, but with my stubborness, they can easily challenge me to prove them they're so wrong because every single success in my life is from my solo work and every little or total failure is a result from work with many people. Maybe people just don't understand my cold outfit and maverick behaviour (typical for my zodiac sign - now it's funny to mention the zodiac here but...)
Well I really hope that you found truths or thought this text is even a little valuable and original. I just try to put an end to enormous ammounts of new useless clans. Even though I know this text won't stop even 1% of the mass clan productuon, I
now just test life and will gain valuable experience that might turn out to be useful for later "spurts" in writing and giving useful advice :O
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I didn't actually read all of that because I'm lazy fecktard like that but I still want to contribute. This either makes sense in this topic or not but... well, I'll post anyway.
I think it's ridiculous how some clans have all these ridiculous positions in their clans. Some of the most horrible ones I have seen are STRATEGY COUNCELLOR or SKILL INSPECTOR. Seriously, what the...? And then a lot of clans have ridiculous ranking systems where they just have to put their players in some kind of order based on skill or when they have joined. They must give some certain roles to each player (eg. barreter, rusher and so on). No sorry, it doesn't work like that. These clans recruit dozens and dozens of players without even grasping a good idea of their skill, personality or if they will even be dedicated for the clan. These are the very clans who can't really get anything done and hardly ever play any real clan wars. And even if they do, they don't improve because they'll always have different players playing and they won't learn to play together. They have forums where clan members fight among each other and blame others for losing against some other clan. This doesn't apply to every clan there is but a lot of clans focused around forums (and the clans I have seen in Clan Recruitment forum) are like this, and I just don't get it. It's pointless to join these clans because they'll never get anything done, they'll never be anything. It probably won't even be fun to be in a clan like this, because you can't take 'em seriously. This is the typical clan for someone who is thinking "hey why not start a clan" and then proceeds in doing so. You see these clans come and go everyday.
Clans who take themselves seriously are fine though. Clans who actually play. You don't even need to have a very well organized clan to make it work.
I have been in the same clan for over 2½ years now (the clan is AE/, it's been around for over 4 years now I think) and all of members are dedicated for the clan. In the time I have been in AE/, only two members have left us and they had been in the clan for a long time anyway. Our clan has probably played over two thousand clan wars and we don't argue, ever. We don't blame someone when he's not doing well and we have never had any stupid drama. We have a leader but basically everyone is equal in our clan, leader doesn't do decisions on his own even if he could, we always make decisions together and democratically. I think the biggest reason for our success is that we have an awesome atmosphere and our members enjoy being in the clan. We stay active, we aim to improve and unlike many players out there, we aren't full of ourselves. We don't whine even when we lose and most of players are pretty old compared to average age in the Soldat community so we can be mature about things.
Even though it might seem like I'm trying to advertise our clan here or something like that, I was just trying to set an example. I don't even think clans have to be around for a long time or be like we are in order for them to be taken seriously or be respected. This brings me back to the good ol' IRC argument. Most of the clans on IRC are clans you can take seriously, while most of others aren't. Exceptions exists.
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I read all of it up to dragon slayers part, xD
Really, I have nothing to say.. But nice read.
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i dont know i guess it just makes soldat more fun. :D
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Mitak what you need to do is get away from the clans here on the soldat forums, they are exactly the clans you and Dragonslayer are talking about. Good long lasting clans that use teamwork and skill are rare? Well not that rare if you visit IRC, many clans there have been around for a long time now and have some dedicated members(AE/ being the best example in my opinion).
You hate ranks? So do I, they are pointless in clans aside from maybe a "leader" and they do nothing for you. I don't know much about TW but in CTF there should be no set positions like the ones DS listed.
And you say you don't like clans because you prefer to be solo? Well.... I can't think of any negative thing about being in a clan with people you like. I understand the urge to just play sometimes but you can still play in publics if you are in a clan. Also the clans that require the use of IRC really are aiming to get better, they aren't trying to ruin your day by making you wait. If you just got on IRC while you played in publics or were doing other stuff on the computer that's all it takes, you don't need to sit and stare at the clan's channel for hours on end.
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ElGato, there's TONS of truth in your post and I respect you for what you said.
It's maybe just me loving my freedom so much. Also I conform with people a lot and I don't want to disappoint them, because that's my character - I have a shockingly changeable mood and you can't rely on me to be a regular clanmate despite the fact that I play Soldat EVERY DAY. Getting myself in a clan makes me lose desire for the game... it's too hard to explain...
I had a rough day and will have a rougher one tomorrow so I'll end here.
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If it's not your thing then it's not your thing, but I don't still don't see any negative affect of clans. My problem is I am too picky so I too lose desire in the game if I'm not in a clan I truly enjoy or if things don't go my way. I am a bit of a feck like that I s'pose. I think you just need to find a bunch of people you truly get along great with and make/join a clan with them. Forget any pressure to even compete at the level of other clans and just have fun and play together when it's convenient. The old, old SM was a lot like that... We weren't very good but we had a lot of fun. It was just a 2 man clan for a long time before we found a few people we really liked.
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Never been to a good clan eh? try it then we'll talk about it.
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Yes we do. It makes soldat interesting to play. You can also war against other clans.
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It's not humiliating, It's respect you show towards other people, I don't find people who show respect humiliating, They have the courage to apologize.
If you didn't have experienced how it's like to be in a clan, then you absolutely have no right to write all this.
The rank system that you're slating, Is just showing how you're currently doing.
Also you can see very easily if you're making any process.
(Also there are down sides of the ranking system)
Not quite sure, but you seem to look down on the newbie clans, God if they weren't here, Many players wouldn't be in at the moment big and strong clans.
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Dragonslayer, your right. You only need basically 3 parts of a clan. Rusher, sniper, and the "Elite" part. Elite would be considered as the most active and/or skilled and best attitudes out of the clan. But saying all that is funny because that is exactly how I run my clan. Only person who has more power then anyone is the Leader(me) and I dont care if u joined my clan in 2004 or 2 days ago noone will be treated any more special then anyone else. Thats how it should be.
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Dragonslayer, your right. You only need basically 3 parts of a clan. Rusher, sniper, and the "Elite" part.
I think you missed the point of his post, in a big way.
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You can have a lot of fun in clans, especially if your all using ventrillo/teamspeak, its a lot more fun than soloing around random servers.
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YES
We do need clans. Ok I'm lying - I need clans. I can't even play without being in a clan. I will get bored very quickly.
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Clans are what keep me playing Soldat
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elgato thyou must have beeeen talkin bout moi in the 2 man clan!!!...or im just completely drunk at almost 3am and im juust freadigng compllete ginbberish!!!
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elgato thyou must have beeeen talkin bout moi in the 2 man clan!!!...or im just completely drunk at almost 3am and im juust freadigng compllete ginbberish!!!
>.>
Ya see, I think it's interesting when people sit around bashing clans and their ranking system, coupled with almost no experience with them. I can understand if you just simply don't like them, but using logic to prove something you have almost no experience about is going out a little too far.
When I first started Soldat, I was playing in the {xXx} Sniper Server back in the end of 1.2.1. The regulars to that server made a clan, and there was no particular order. Blah blah blah, everyone disappeared, and I took over. Fast forward a few years, and I'm a well experienced clan leader for 4 years. There are very few people in Soldat that can say the same thing.
Little cute clans that seem like they serve no purpose can be the building blocks of someone who will eventually become a great member in the community. Nothing doesn't serve a purpose. As long as someone notices it, it can have an effect on their life.
Every member that joins that horribly unorganized clan, even with ranks, is learning and absorbing and experiencing what it is to be in a clan. Maybe that particular clan will be a great example of a poorly run clan, or an example of the leader who is desperately trying to make it work, but doesn't have the experience anyway.
And the ranking system. Aahh, I tried to force that on my clan a long while back, and realized that the opposite can have a greater effect. Ranks are a great way of giving praise to those who do well, encouraging them to strive to better themselves when that drive isn't already present. But now, I realize that the clan progresses as a whole. As one member gets better, the rest usually fall in place to their side.
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Lol I think clans are pretty cool, and they do help Soldat to be more funner :]
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Yes JERICH it's true, that was about you.
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GUYS 11 YEAR OLD BOY CAN HEAR AGAIN
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/south_west/7214066.stm
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GUYS 11 YEAR OLD BOY CAN HEAR AGAIN
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/south_west/7214066.stm
Ban Spam Can
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well, clans can be good or shitty. MUFFIN=Shitty but there are other clans that actually play well. if u ask me, there are 3 different types of clans
Noob Clan (Cant play for shit, dies in 3 days)
Fun Clan (Can play well but doesnt war. Just in a clan for fun(Pointless))
Pro Clan (Can play well and competes)
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I fail to get the fact fun clans are pointless. They enjoy theirselves in their way. Keeping that in mind makes you not in the position to call a clan pointless or not.
-M-
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What's a clan anyway? According to Wikipedia - our beloved noob guide about life, a clan is a group of people united by kinship.
There can really be kinship through the Internet? If one is so fooled to trust some random net guy and obey his interests under the excuse that
"There's no such thing as obeying!" Soldat unites them so taking clan members for brainless obeying sheeps is ridicilous!!!
Hey pal, it's Mitak here to prove that's wrong. Joining someone random's clan and letting him command you DOES make you a sheep after all!
Ranks... haha, ranks, my dear friends are created to humiliate a soldier and make him easier to control thanks to the jerarchy system.
I think we live in a free world and all people are equal? Then why are there still ranks? Why are there religions? Why do you get flamed every time
you SHARE AN OPINION about someone's play? I thought we live in a free world where you can express your opinions freely and not get hated for that
from lifeless-nothing-else-to-do-ers.
You might say I'm taking it too serious. Yes, that's correct - I do. And there should be somebody who cares among the mass of careless people, right?
You have joined the clan. You can either do what he tells you, or he remove you from the clan. That is freedom. You won't get killed for not obeying. If you join a clan, you know you will need to do stuff. It's your choice to join a clan.
Free world =/= everybody being equal. Everybody is equal as a human being, and has equal rights, although some people have better jobs and stuff. If everybody did the same job, humanity would die due to lack of education/food/housing/resources/technology. I don't get the point about relligion... you can choose what you believe in, and so can other people.
Well, you have right to share your opinion, but somebody else has right to share HIS opinion about YOUR opinion.
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You have joined the clan. You can either do what he tells you, or he remove you from the clan. That is freedom. You won't get killed for not obeying. If you join a clan, you know you will need to do stuff. It's your choice to join a clan.
Free world =/= everybody being equal. Everybody is equal as a human being, and has equal rights, although some people have better jobs and stuff. If everybody did the same job, humanity would die due to lack of education/food/housing/resources/technology. I don't get the point about relligion... you can choose what you believe in, and so can other people.
Well, you have right to share your opinion, but somebody else has right to share HIS opinion about YOUR opinion.
Yeah, that's when non-tolerance arrives, people get frustrated and go to whine about it in forums :D
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clans are for gathering people that you kind of want to. as meecrob said,
well, clans can be good or bollocksty. MUFFIN=bollocksty but there are other clans that actually play well. if u ask me, there are 3 different types of clans
Noob Clan (Cant play for bollocks, dies in 3 days)
Fun Clan (Can play well but doesnt war. Just in a clan for fun(Pointless))
Pro Clan (Can play well and competes)
well there are other reasons for clans. they have a clan tournament, clan plays, competitions, war(hatred). that's basically it. if you join a great clan, you'll feel like you've achieved something in soldat. *warning* don't join for fun clans and noob clans
-side effect includes: massive suckage as days pass, whine, and act like a complete idiot
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Clans are the reason I keep playing Soldat. Clans really help players shape up and good at Soldat. Look at me now, compared to me before I joined any clans.
Clans are fun, but also serious.
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WE NEED MORE CLANS
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I NEED MORE CLANS
That's better.
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I don't get it whats the point of such no-cw clans at Clan Recruitment..
The clan lives max about 2 months and then dies WHITOUT PLAYING A SINGLE CLANWAR :/
Then some dude makes another topic : "New clan" blablabla..
I understand when you actually do something,but you don't.
Play gathers or something :Q
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Fun clans, are just to have fun, they don't care if they lose or win. Nothing to compare to that, they gets alot of improvements too. It's like impossible to be pointless.
DONT LAUGH AT 'EM!
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clans makes soldat funnier
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I prefer a clan to be more of a social thing, as well as a get-better-at-soldat thing. I don't join them if I don't know anyone in them, and I often join clans just because I know the people in them. I'm not pretending to be some kind of clan expert, and I could care less if some leader dude is bossing me around (unless I don't know him, which hasn't been a problem lately).
Honestly, in return for me obeying a couple simple orders from the leader, I get so much in return. He finds scrims, cw's, and other random games. He organizes in-clan wars, he helps me get better.
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Maybe because you're not skilled enough to get into a clan that doesent suck, or havent applied for one.
That whole obeying by the rules is the same as in real life. If you join a club or a group, you have to expect to obey by those rules or be tossed out.
I have never seen a person having to appologize for loosing a match. Someone always have to loose, for someone else to win.
The newbie clans will always be around. I dont see any problem with it.
When I was a newb, I joined a newbie clan where we all played together with equal low skill, and it was fun to find such people.
When i got more skilled, I got into more serious clans with players of more skill. Thats how it should be. There should always be an option for people that wish to join clans, regardless of their skill.
Actually, Mitak is quite good, maybe he's just an anarchy type of guy. :p
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if there is a game with no clans...then that game must suck. Games are basically founded on clans. It makes it fun, competitive, and serious. Games just aren't fun without them.
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Whoooooa Mitak! I thought I was stoned :o! Naah just kidding ::). How long u wrote that ´"message" or should I say novel? I read 5 or 6 words before I fell asleep. I think u should do shorter messages for us small brained ones [retard]?
COOKIEPOWAH!
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This thread is more than half a year old and it's still alive :O
Anyway, since we're here, let's sum up.
I don't need clans. I can go with gathers.
Hippie, you weren't on TW just yesterday spreading the cookie fetish, were you @_@
I like wafers more :P
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Cookies :). Naah they aren't my fetish, weed is my fetish. Cookies are just appertiser for me ::).
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Multiplayer game without clans it is as World without water.Yes we need clans.
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I realize that many of you clan members will try to refute this. I love good and well realized clans. I hate worthless, without an idea or prespective clans that serve as
some newb's lame and futureless vain ambition to feel what is like to be in a clan.
U love good and well realised clans ?
Doesn't every clan hav to start somewhere, i might not be from one of the top clans but with more practice and percivierence isn't it possible that a 'newb' clan that stick together from a strong friendship bond (be it over the internet) can become more reknowned.
and don't talk about not having a 'bond' over the internet becos a lot of people meet each other thru the internet and friends chat to each other over the internet, IT CAN BE A FRIENDLY PLACE!
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clans makes soldat funnier
I think the question has been answered.
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I personally, join clans because it's fun training and playing against other clans.
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Clans keep pplz organized??
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If there were no clans I'm sure i woud stop playing soldat.
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Yeah, we definitely need them. I understand their pro's and con's, but I'm a loner myself. Great points!
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U love good and well realised clans ?
Doesn't every clan hav to start somewhere, i might not be from one of the top clans but with more practice and percivierence isn't it possible that a 'newb' clan that stick together from a strong friendship bond (be it over the internet) can become more reknowned.
and don't talk about not having a 'bond' over the internet becos a lot of people meet each other thru the internet and friends chat to each other over the internet, IT CAN BE A FRIENDLY PLACE!
Most reknowned clans are formed of players that were the best in their clan and joined with others that were highly skilled as well. Most novice clans just sprout a few good players which join moderate clans, which in turn sprout highly skilled players. And then there are the highly skilled players banning together to make The Renowned Clan.
^.^
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Well, I'll give you a good example of a clan which used to get owned by everyone and rose to the top with the same players.
CF | aka Cross-Fire.
I remember when they'd lose to us 10-0 and very clear scores. Fast forward half a year and they could already match top clans. I don't think they were ever among the very best but they were definitely one of those top clans who could beat any top clan every now and then, and would always give you a run for your money.
I actually encourage these novice clans to stick together and just play actively.
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clans makes the game much funnier cuz of clanwars etc,
i got a clan with like 10 players
and everyone of them was a soloplayer
and they learnd how to play as a team
when they joined ;]