Official Soldat Forums
Soldat Talk => Game Improvements / Suggestions => Topic started by: The Epic Guy on March 23, 2009, 06:30:18 am
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Instead of spawning after a set amount of time, make it so the player has to choose his weapon before appearing onscreen, but only after the spawn time has passed. The camera would still move to the spawn point. If you choose your weapon before the spawn time is up, you will spawn as usual. But if you dont, then you will spawn as soon as you choose your weapon or click outside the box.
Advantages:
Player is more prepared at spawn, possible spawnkill evasion.
Reduces AFK kills, because of lengthier spawn times.
Disadvantages:
Player can camp at spawn, but spawnspark will draw your attention to him quickly, very minor.
As for a maximum spawn time, Im suggesting double the regular spawn time. So if the respawn time is 3 seconds, you can wait another 6 seconds before spawning automatically.
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Hmm. Nice idea. How about spawning when you press certain key (LMB)?
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I say yes to this. I don't want people abusing it, so I say it should still have a time limit.
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f12, this would reduce spawn-killing troubles A LOT. however i agree with xxypher and maybe would make it, say 2-3 minutes?
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I say yes to this. I don't want people abusing it, so I say it should still have a time limit.
I think he is saying that it will have the time limit anyway, just that you only spawn after that once you've chosen a weapon.
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I dont think it should have a limit because I cant really see anyone abusing this. If you factor in the time when you cant use weapons after spawn, and the spawnspark/sound, using this to camp is a really shitty idea.
Also in CTF the longer you stay in this mode, the easier it is to steal your flag.
EDIT: Respawn time still applies.
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I don't like this, I like the way soldat forces you to think fast. Plus, you could use it to your advantage, tactically spawning to avoid someone/spawn next to someone
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I'm sooooo for this. Too many times do I respawn into enemy fire still choosing the right weapon. However, there still needs to be a time limit.
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I can't see why this subject because you always can choose your weapon as soon as you're dead, that is to say before spawning O_o
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This would be rather very interesting. Supposedly, it COULD decrease the momentum and asperation of the game's speed, however it would rather increase less spawn killing and afk players won't be appearing on the screen.
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But it would make it harder to spot afkers and kick them?
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Yeah it's hard to spot someone who isn't spawning because he's afk. Rrrrrright
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But it would make it harder to spot afkers and kick them?
So you blame people for having needs, and a life, outside of soldat?! what if your telephone rings and you've got a long conversation, would you like missing a spot on your fav server cause teams were uneven by 1 man??? that's ignorant, and kinda selfish.
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I don't like this, I like the way soldat forces you to think fast. Plus, you could use it to your advantage, tactically spawning to avoid someone/spawn next to someone
That is the problem with spawnkilling - spawned players can think fast, but process of respawning doesn't always let them act as fast. And besides, respawn points arent always positioned well enough to avoid this.
Anyway, this feature has been suggested in "Quick bit on spawnkilling" thread, but I'll aggree to this suggestion once again. What's the point of respawning without a weapon anyway?
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Great idea. I saw players always getting killed because of weapon spawns.
F12
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Taking all of this into account:
- There should be minimum time limit. Before it elapses you're not able to respawn. (Same way as it is in current version of Soldat.)
- Maximum spawntime - after it wears out you'll be automatically spawned.
- Between those 2 timelimits it should ba allowed to respawn after pressing key.
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- Between those 2 timelimits it should ba allowed to respawn after pressing key.
I don't understand why you will need to press a key. simply clicking the weapon you want on the list will respawn you, so before you click just scan your surroundings for enemies. Or am I not understanding that part of it?
anyay, f12. definitely happened to me before where I'm still selecting weapon and enemies come flying in.
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^ The ability to know where you spawn before you spawn would prevent some spawnkillings.
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f12, for those fecking m79 base campers
i often end up leaving the game soo pissed cuz 1 idiot base spawned with a 79 for 4 maps straight and noone was able to do anything about him due to his excellent dodging skills
and since my team was stuck with that idiot, the other team simply capped capped capped like we werent even in the game, grr
aaand to make things worse, the other team had more members and were more than happy to f11 at any vote kicks for him
aaaaand there was no admin on
aaaaaaaaand there was no admin script
ehhhh
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But it would make it harder to spot afkers and kick them?
So you blame people for having needs, and a life, outside of soldat?! what if your telephone rings and you've got a long conversation, would you like missing a spot on your fav server cause teams were uneven by 1 man??? that's ignorant, and kinda selfish.
Wow, you accuse me of blaming people for having a life outside of soldat, but at the same time you say that a spot in your fav server is so important, that people who want to play a quick match are not entitled to it (in the server that happens to be THEIR fav also) because you (who are not selfish at all) are on a long phonecall and noone can take your place. I personally dont especially fancy games where you have 2 out of 5 players just standing for the whole round while the other team is in full activity. But for each his own.
If you have a life outside of soldat then it shouldn´t be such a tragedy to get kicked, just join again.
Effectively you are saying that you alone are more important than all the other players in that server who would like ta have a nice balanced game, and I am the one thats selfish?
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sooo, was that supposed to show i'm selfish? ok...say a friend calls to report you have some homework to do, the chat takes a while, but you got the next day free so you can do it then, would you like being banned for the 30\20 minutes for that? besides i didn't say nobody else was entitled to it, but public, good servers nowadays fill up quickly, with people who hack even, so would you give up your spot for some hacker to ruin the whole game? (yea it happened to me about 20 times already, my spot gets stolen by hackers)
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First of all my friends dont tell me what i must do, i decide for myself... ok but seriously, you are talking about specific cases, but the general rule is people get kicked for afking, and if i go away from a game i know i probably will get kicked and its fine by me (and if i KNOW it will be a while i exit on my own - common courtesy), the spot is not a matter of life and death to me, i want to have a good game and let others have a good game.
Consider this: ALL of alpha team gets phonecalls at the same time... what is bravo supposed to do?
I dont understand what hacking has to do with it.. and i think discussing hacking is against forum rules? ;D
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Could be good, but still it just would make it kind of slower and automatic respawn makes me happier.
Just to give a reason - you've got numbers so you can change your weapon pretty fast unless you got just one hand.
-or-
you still got few seconds after you die so you can choose whatever gun you would like to...
-but-
...if you don't get the time and you respawn immidiately just click anywhere and you will get the same gun as you choosed before. Trala...
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The problem with clicking outside the weapon menu to choose the same gun as before often makes the gun go off, and some people will find that impedes them, against a spawnkiller they are slightly disadvantaged if (depending on the weapon) they found that bullet valuable.
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Could be good, but still it just would make it kind of slower and automatic respawn makes me happier.
Just to give a reason - you've got numbers so you can change your weapon pretty fast unless you got just one hand.
-or-
you still got few seconds after you die so you can choose whatever gun you would like to...
-but-
...if you don't get the time and you respawn immidiately just click anywhere and you will get the same gun as you choosed before. Trala...
Yes, and you could still do this, and some people would still want to do this, but the point of this suggestion is not to slow down the game, or to allow for more time to choose your weapon, but to allow for some "preparation", so a player could be ready for, lets say, a spawn camper. As the current system jumps your point of view from your corpse to your spawn instantly, you really have no way to know where a camper is unless he has already killed you once or twice, assuming this is TDM/CTF/INF. And my suggestion is to give a little bit of spectator time on your spawn point so you could see what you are getting yourself into.
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I think this idea would be interesting and help tone down the spawn killing but, what about people that would sit there and wait for someone from the other team to grab the flag just to spawn and kill them. That seems to be just about as bad as someone spawn camping. I mean everyone has had a moment where they grab the flag and then 2 or so enemies spawn, pretty sure no one enjoys that either.
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ok this has just turned into a flaming session, that of a battlefield, calm down you two
demoniac93
Valis
let me just add in my two cents, i for one would hate for my spot to be taken by a hacker who soon ruins the game, however i would also hate to be banned for my afkness, and so the result is ineveitable, you dont want to get banned, and theres a phonecall, leave, hey i hate doing it too but i have avoided being permanently banned by doing so, others may have their solution to this but this is mine, if you guys wish to continue in the manner that you are then please take it to personal messages or the admin may lock this topic due to your flaming and arguing
altho now it looks as tho the matter has been settled ;)
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ok frosty...you got it, you lean mean bad*ss argument settling machine :D
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Yeah sorry for hijacking the topic, since i like to argue (i dont think its flaming, we were using arguments, not insults out of the blue, i just felt that calling me selfish was a bit over the top) i might get carried away sometimes and people may percieve it as hostility, which is not what i intended. The afk arguments was just my 2 cents, because it IS related to the topic on hand, its also understandable that people may have different opinions about it.
Heres 2 cents more (which makes 4): its not precisely on the original topic, but on spawnkilling in general. What if a player gets punished for being in enemy base for too long, like a minute or smth, its highly unlikely that a player can spend a minute in enemy base and survive if he is playing normally, so if you hang aroung TOO long you would get killed by server and get a warning.
I am aware that this idea has certain setbacks, but its just an idea, feel free to develop it if you find it the least bit interesting.
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2 minutes, considering sometimes people base-spawn to kill the efc before he can cap. right?
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I didnt quite get your idea, sorry. But yes, the exact time is up for debate, but anyway, it could still rather be 1 minute, because you can always back out of the base and come right back. That would create windows for the spawnees to break out. I think the trickiest question would be implementation instead, meaning: where do you draw the line, because maps are different, the spatial relationship of flag spawn and players spawn are different. Maybe something like a circular zone around the flag spawn which would glow very faintly the color of the flag, or a count off appearing like in the end of a game but elsewhere.
Wow, gets pretty complicated...
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It may be complicated, but it must've had been proposed a lot of times already, this idea, and it may be hard but not impossible to implement.
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F12. No explanation needed.
Note that the spawntime is still the same. Meaning if the server's spawn time is 2 seconds, the fastest possible time you'd respawn is 2 seconds, but you can choose to respawn later than 2 seconds since you are picking your weapon. There must a limit as to how long you take to pick your gun though.
Gameplay wouldn't slow down at all actually, and it is a good counter against base-spawning too.
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:)
F12
well some servers have a 1 second respawn and the spawn killing gets over the top quite frequently
parhaps also with the servers that have a 20 second respawn time, this may even speed up the respawns, idk, maybe even allowing for even more tactical spawning in order to defend the base, or something like that
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:)
F12
well some servers have a 1 second respawn and the spawn killing gets over the top quite frequently
parhaps also with the servers that have a 20 second respawn time, this may even speed up the respawns, idk, maybe even allowing for even more tactical spawning in order to defend the base, or something like that
I think you should not be able to respawn before certain time limit.
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actually I like killing afk'ers ;D
F11
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crap! i remember you from hexer! o.0
XD
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Yeah...I also like killing afk'ers too :D! It is pretty fun.
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actually I like killing afk'ers ;D
It's not about AFKers, it's about non-AFKers.
AFKers will still spawn at the maximum time limit.
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Good points have been mentioned, but I still have to F11 this idea.
Spawn time should not be up to you, you are dead, and you should just be happy that you are being "re"spawned. Spawnkilling is annoying, but it is an aspect of the game that frequently decides the winner.
Example: You storm into the base with a buddy, and you kill 3 enemies. Cool. Now you have the flag, and are just turning away to run, and all of the guys you just killed respawned at your heels. Should your buddy just let them chase you because of the informal rule of "spawnkilling"?
I am fully aware that my example does not really address the point of "respawn on weapon choice", but I am merely voicing my opinion on spawnkilling. If they are killing you with an M79, just pull out a knife, pretty similar trajectory at close range. Getting sniped? Backflip. Autos? LAW.
Possibly I am the one and only god of escaping spawnkilling, or maybe many other people have found ways around it, such as using the invincibility frames they give you, or learning the numbers of your fave guns. If someone pisses you off, you press 7. If you want to snipe, you press 8. 3 For AK. 5 for Shotty. It actually shows that you can think quickly and work at the pace of the battle, not the battle working at the pace of you, which is apparently slow. Like many have stated before me, Soldat is a fast-paced game of smart weapon choice, skill, and speed. If you can't figure out instantaneously what weapon you need when you die, tough luck, don't expect a patch to baby you through it.
I realize that I am coming off as possibly offensive to people who support this idea, but it seems really unnecessary. I just feel that this topic has been beating around the bush, filled with 1-line responses with little to no substance.... or just personal feuds of pride. I just wanted to give a dry-cut opinion on this topic, cutting the crap, giving my 2 pennies.
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So what you just said wasn't at all un-productive? Stop pumping up your own head and read what you just posted, god of spawn evading??? That shows me more ego than i ever seen of the whole forums, related to the issue of spawn killing...Well what if the spawn camper is better, faster,etc...than you? Then what? Maybe then oh almighty spawn evader you'd know what it's like! That 1 second of invincibility you gain at spawn was made for some realistic maps so you don't lose health right at spawning...Not for spawn campers. So this idea as ridiculous and unnecessary it may seem to you, would for other people improve the game play quality by tons. so stop being a self centered egoist and consider the fact that not all people are born great epic spawn camper killing machines. END OF ONE LINED COMMENT.
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jbigz, check out this thread: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=32972.0
It has some really good points about spawnkilling, which you have probably haven't considered. All I had to say about spawnkilling has been said in that thread, so not gonna go off topic anymore.
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Great idea, just don't think there's much need for doubling the spawn time. In public games it's not a big deal but when it comes to serious competition a couple seconds sets the difference between a successful defense and a successful offense, i.e, someone attempting to cap.
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Great idea, just don't think there's much need for doubling the spawn time. In public games it's not a big deal but when it comes to serious competition a couple seconds sets the difference between a successful defense and a successful offense, i.e, someone attempting to cap.
What I meant was that the optional spawn time would be double the regular spawn time, so it would not slow down respawning at all.
If they are killing you with an M79, just pull out a knife, pretty similar trajectory at close range. Getting sniped? Backflip. Autos? LAW.
You make it sound so predictable, but there are people out there that can think 2 steps ahead.
Also, in your example, if the other team decided to use additional spawn time, that gives your buddy additional time to get ahead. It really is a tradeoff, avoid getting spawnkilled or possibly stop the efc.
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* There should be minimum time limit. Before it elapses you're not able to respawn. (Same way as it is in current version of Soldat.)
* Maximum spawntime - after it wears out you'll be automatically spawned.
* Between those 2 timelimits it should ba allowed to respawn
I'll change my f11 into an f12 taking this into account. That extra little window before it maxes out would help prepare you for possible spawnkilling, but not really ruin the pace so I guess it could work
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So what you just said wasn't at all un-productive? Stop pumping up your own head and read what you just posted, god of spawn evading??? That shows me more ego than i ever seen of the whole forums, related to the issue of spawn killing...Well what if the spawn camper is better, faster,etc...than you? Then what? Maybe then oh almighty spawn evader you'd know what it's like! That 1 second of invincibility you gain at spawn was made for some realistic maps so you don't lose health right at spawning...Not for spawn campers. So this idea as ridiculous and unnecessary it may seem to you, would for other people improve the game play quality by tons. so stop being a self centered egoist and consider the fact that not all people are born great epic spawn camper killing machines. END OF ONE LINED COMMENT.
I was using heavy sarcasm; I am sorry it was not as obvious as I tried to make it.
I am not the 'god' of anything, but your own doubt of that statement was supposed to make my sarcasm more understandable.
It is true that spawnkillers may try to think ahead, but the power is still in your hands. His option is, well, only spawning. Your options are much wider. The variables the spawner has to look for are running away, knives, LAWS, grenades, evasive maneuvers, and many more things PLUS factoring in invincibility. All you have to look out for is the spawnkill. A spawner won't run, won't do many evasive maneuvers because his job is to camp and kill.
In my opinion, the victim has many more options.
Also, like a counter-argument stated, if a "spawner is better and faster than you," what makes you think you'd survive under different circumstances?
Lastly, I am not any more of an egotist than any gamer. We all play to win at some point, and winning could be viewed as selfish as well. You interpretted my advice as "egotistical"; all advice comes from someone who thinks they know better.
What I try to do is use sarcasm in conjunction with hard logic to get my points across.
My advice I was trying to promote was: Don't be predictable. It's really easy. DON'T do what is logical. A spawner is there for EASY kills, PREDICTABLE kills. So don't be predictable.
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F11, but why? For example Hide & Seek. If you dont select your weapon (I know you dont have one there) you can easily stay in spawn for all time / for an amount of time, you get an advantage through this, because other could die before you spawn!
Yes, I know spawnkilling is a huge problem, but this can be fixed by the mappers, so that coders don´t need to waste their time for this. Just look on ctf_Glory by Zakath. He used the normal flipper by VTT to save the spawns and get a special gameplay which is REALLY good.
I don´t see need of this feauture, there are things that are more important imo, so F11!
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God...I hate the seconds where I have to decide on my weapon (depending on the map loaded) so I'm definately for this. I've probably posted in this trhead already.
There should be a limit though, say 10 seconds until the game auto-respawns you. This will prevent people waiting to surprise players or general hiding.
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Yeah I'll F12, but having said that, the maximum limit should be double the minimum limit. If it were 2 minutes, you could have a person on your team not on the map for two minutes because they've gone. This'd take up a player space and annoy the team he/she is on as they aren't on the field.
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I say hell no. Script it if you want, but don't implement in game. If you learn to pick a weapon while you'r dead you don't have any problems! A strong F11
can't believe 33 people voted yes..
This would never work with the pro comunity, perhaps for public noobs.
''spawn killing and afk players'' are you all noobs?
SKRIPT IT FOR SOME PUBLIC SERVER