Official Soldat Forums
Misc => The Lounge => Topic started by: Gnoblar on April 04, 2009, 07:20:41 am
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If 10 exact clones are given a puzzle, will they solve it in the same way, will they think of ideas at the same time and conduct them in the same way? Or will it be different.
For the purposes of the conversation, the clones are all the same, EXACTLY the same.
The more you think about it the stranger it get's, what are your thoughts?
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I'm going to go ahead and assume that you can do the problem multiple ways.
I think my clones would figure it out in different ways. When I go to solve a problem I could very easily miss a piece of information that one of my clones could see right away.
DNA doesn't really have significance here, problem solving skills are groomed, not embedded.
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I'm going to go ahead and assume that you can do the problem multiple ways.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that, yes it does.
It's weird, because they all have EXACTLY the same mind, and therefore it would make sense to have the same approach. If one misses a mistake then the other's might as well, or maybe not? It's confusing.
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No 2 people in the whole universe have or will ever have the exactly same thoughts, experiences, of capabilities\abilities...
You can't make any 2 human beings see everything in life the same way, therefor even if only by perspective they will have different experiences, knowledge, and opinions.
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No 2 people in the whole universe have or will ever have the exactly same thoughts, experiences, of capabilities\abilities...
Hence thought problem and not real problem.
In any case, what this problem breaks down to is this:
1. Do you believe in free will? If so, then each clone may or may not solve it in the same manner.
2. Do you believe consciousness is deterministic? If so, each clone will solve it in the same manner.
I see no reason to accept dualism, so option 2.
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nature & nurture. Both plays a factor.
So no, clones will solve differently, but come to the same conclusion.
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nature & nurture. Both plays a factor.
So no, clones will solve differently, but come to the same conclusion.
I don't even know if you can say they'll come to the same conclusion. Nurture plays a pretty large role in someone's growth, and because the clones aren't the same person, they can't possibly have the same experiences. All that adds up over time, and eventually you have 10 people who look the same and have the same brains but think differently.
Anyone who's dealt with AI knows this. Feed in different training data, and you'll get different results.
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For the purposes of the conversation, the clones are all the same, EXACTLY the same.
Whats this here?
If they do not solve it in the same way, they are no longer EXACTLY the same.
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nature & nurture. Both plays a factor.
So no, clones will solve differently, but come to the same conclusion.
I don't even know if you can say they'll come to the same conclusion.
I assumed that the puzzle will only have one solution. So if they do solve it, they will come to the same conclusion.
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Whats this here?
If they do not solve it in the same way, they are no longer EXACTLY the same.
I meant they are biologically exactly the same. They were brought up exactly the same as well, don't think too much on this though.
I'm
Just curious to see if two exact minds can think of something differently.
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Nope. If they are, as you said, completely identical in mind and experiences, there is no reason for them to do anything differently.
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Their thoughts should be the same when they are Exactly the same and all there experiences are the same which isn't possible unless there are like parallel universes.
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Which is why it's a hypothetical puzzle. After establishing that, it's not much of one.
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Nope. If they are, as you said, completely identical in mind and experiences, there is no reason for them to do anything differently.
He meant biologically.
Haven't you see twins doing different things at same times?
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I meant they are biologically exactly the same. They were brought up exactly the same as well, don't think too much on this though.
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No, not even if they lived in "parallel" universes don't you get it? unless they are "bots" or "cyborgs" or that kind of bio-engineered robots, and have the same database, as in copied and pasted experiences from one to the rest, without ANY file loss at all, that's when you got identical brains, other than that NO.
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Why are people so fascinated by hypotheticals that are both unprovable and will never happen? My answer is there is no way of knowing.
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or that kind of bio-engineered robots,
you mean something like clones? intriguing.
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Dude just get off my back already! You're gonna be attacking my opinions wherever i go?! Whatever just f**k off....
And i think i can agree with you on your point Killroy.
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Maybe the change in micro-environments would act as trigger for the epiphany, therefore I think it is possible for them to approach the same puzzle differently, depending on the trigga.
Pimpin'
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Just because you are a clone doesn't mean you will solve it the exact same way.
Twins are clones of one cell, yet they always turn out different.
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For the purposes of the conversation, the clones are all the same, EXACTLY the same.
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For the purposes of the conversation, the clones are all the same, EXACTLY the same.
Clone might be same, but environment might be different.(one doing puzzle in the park one in a bar)
So I guess they might solve it differently.
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Just because they are clones does not mean their brains will work the same through the entire puzzle.
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They were brought up exactly the same as well, don't think too much on this though.
to explain this
they are all 100% same clones
their lives are 100% the same NO EXCEPTIONS
if it would be so, and their lives are "cloned" also, they would come to the same answer, although there is always a really REALLY minor possibility that it wouldnt be the same
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Just because they are clones does not mean their brains will work the same through the entire puzzle.
This is right. Agree with me.
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The words "clone" is just a placeholder word for the fact that they are, for all intents and purposes, the same person. Their minds are identical and will come to the same conclusion, period. The human brain is a machine. Given the exact same situation, there is no reason for it to react differently any given time.
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The words "clone" is just a placeholder word for the fact that they are, for all intents and purposes, the same person. Their minds are identical and will come to the same conclusion, period. The human brain is a machine. Given the exact same situation, there is no reason for it to react differently any given time.
^ That's something I'd agree with.
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I still stand at my opinion as the question giver himself stated only biologically the same, not in terms of experiences and gained knowledge.
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If they are given the exact same time and environment etc, then they will solve in the same way. The slightest difference would make their solving different or only similar.
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But only with the EXACT same experiences, however feelings, emotions, points ofview at the time of a happening can all change those experiences if even just in a slight way. So it would be hard to do, unless as i mentioned it someone would be able to cpoy and paste memory. WITHOUT file loss.
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But only with the EXACT same experiences, however feelings, emotions, points ofview at the time of a happening can all change those experiences if even just in a slight way. So it would be hard to do, unless as i mentioned it someone would be able to cpoy and paste memory. WITHOUT file loss.
And that concludes the topic. =D
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Thanks for finishing out my post :D
It does, the answer has been found, and it is clear, it can happen but only under VERY highly and locked conditions that are to be given directly into the experiment for it to work.
So i say there is no more to be said.
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I meant they are biologically exactly the same. They were brought up exactly the same as well, don't think too much on this though.
Then please tell me, how, at the same time and place these clones are given the same environment and settings to solve this puzzle, as well as living the EXACT same life.
If these are met, then please answer the question of what makes them act any differently then they have in the past?
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Are the clones all made at the same time and kept in the same living conditions?
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Are the clones all made at the same time and kept in the same living conditions?
Yes. If you've seen "The Island". That's where I got the idea off. They are born as adults and not as children, they are simply an exaclt replica of the orignal host who isn't doing the puzzle.
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In practice it isn't possible at all to give the exact same condition, time and environment, hence even if cloned freshly like from The Island, they won't solve the same way.
In theory, then they should work the same way.
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In theory, then they should work the same way.
I am assuming everyone is thinking about this IN THEORY.
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Because first of all cloning is facing moral issues...
And it's impossible to clone experience.
So it's all theoretical, because these conditions can't be met in practical science.
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Let's not ponder on that.
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the only type of clone that youd be able to produce exactly the same result out of would be a parallel universe clone in which both universes are exactly the same in terms of energy and mass and both universes are happening at the same point along the same timeline
though its still possible youd get differences between the two using that method
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Id say they'd all have to experience their lives exactly the same up until the puzzle, and then have it presented to them in the same way. Unless, of course, its a multi-path puzzle.
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Stop trying to make it realistic. It's never going to happen, so stop trying to make it work or not. Just hypothesise the answer.
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Hypothetical answer is: They can't. Because you cannot copy a human memory. Neither fully provide the needed conditions.
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If all their circumstances, conditions, time, air and whereabouts are mirrored, then they would.
Ofcourse human mind can't be copied, but this is "thought/what if topic".
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I'd say different because I usually attack puzzles in more than one way. I'm not going to start the same way every time, its up to the clones to pick which one of my paths they choose to follow.
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Hypothetical answer is: They can't. Because you cannot copy a human memory. Neither fully provide the needed conditions.
But the question states that those conditions are already met. Do you have any idea what hypothetical means?
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I'd say the requirement for this experiment to have the same result for all the clones is impossible to meet. Even though, in this case, the requirements have been met, it's just not realistic enough for me to provide a proper answer. Any small difference in said clones upbringing could ultimately lead to him/her selecting a different approach to a task compared to another. Small things that happen throughout reality are all factors that, even if on a very small scale, may alter a persons understanding and behaviour, and such factors are somewhat random. In any case, it's too random to be predicted, even in a controlled invironment.
However, I do believe in a persons mind to be 'more' than just a set of chemical releases, so if I had to guess to save my life, I'd say they would solve the puzzle differently.
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Hypothetical answer is: They can't. Because you cannot copy a human memory. Neither fully provide the needed conditions.
But the question states that those conditions are already met. Do you have any idea what hypothetical means?
An event, condition, status...etc. imagined or suggested but not necessarily real or true...
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An event, condition, status...etc. imagined or suggested but not necessarily real or true...
I think that was a rhetorical question...
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Ugh...I know, that's why i answered it...I'm DUMB! AND PROUD OF IT!
Anyway, i think it's clear, the answer to the question is no. What more to discuss?
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Hypothetical answer is: They can't. Because you cannot copy a human memory. Neither fully provide the needed conditions.
But the question states that those conditions are already met. Do you have any idea what hypothetical means?
An event, condition, status...etc. imagined or suggested but not necessarily real or true...
Exactly. Whether or not the situation is possible is irrelevant. The HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION was whether or not they'd react the same way, and in that sense, the answer would be yes.
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Hypothetical answer is: They can't. Because you cannot copy a human memory. Neither fully provide the needed conditions.
But the question states that those conditions are already met. Do you have any idea what hypothetical means?
An event, condition, status...etc. imagined or suggested but not necessarily real or true...
Exactly. Whether or not the situation is possible is irrelevant. The HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION was whether or not they'd react the same way, and in that sense, the answer would be yes.
UGH! And people say i was sublime, you just pwnd me in that...