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Soldat Talk => General Discussions => Topic started by: Gortaak on July 01, 2009, 01:53:16 pm

Title: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 01, 2009, 01:53:16 pm
Ok, so apparently I am now unbanned, not sure how, but w/e considering I should not have been banned anyways, I am curious why Farah got PERMA banned, and why that topic got deleted. Now, there is absolutely no flaming going on here, and no "defamation" either, so if I get banned I will be quite pissed, considering I am just asking for answers for stuff that really isnt making any sense to me.

Btw, I ended up getting banned for "Contributing to flaming/defamation" without any warnings (EVER). Now, I am not entirely sure how I got unbanned, so I am also curious about that as well. I didnt do any flaming, or any defamation, and if I got banned for posting a link to a topic about the other topic (which I am not posting now) then how come every single other person that posted in that topic isnt banned?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Centurion on July 01, 2009, 02:19:29 pm
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?board=29.0

^^Info about banned people!^^

I am pretty sure they had a good reason for banning him.  And I can't really comment your ban :/ Anyway. Let's wait for administrators to show up.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 01, 2009, 02:20:07 pm
Execpt for Farah isnt even in the sin bin.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 01, 2009, 02:23:37 pm
Execpt for Farah isnt even in the sin bin.

None of them were/are.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Devastated Mind on July 01, 2009, 02:31:29 pm
Yeah, I'm kinda upset those topics were deleted. This topic matters to the whole community and you are not capable to shut up the community about it anyway. Up to the point where you started deleting those topics, EnEsCe, I find that what was posted were not mere accusations and hate about you, but facts. It seems to me you wanted to get a reason for shutting people down about this by calling this a flame and hate war though, which it cleary wasnt. Most people tried to post their facts in a comparatively objective manner (you cant be completely objective about this, I suppose).
So until the moment you find the time to let the community know what you have to say about this I suppose you should let us get a picture of this on our own. Censorship and banhammer is not gonna help your case at all, because people want to know the truth and they are eventually gonna find it out (either way) or they are going to make sure there will be consequences. It doesnt necessarily need to be this platform, as there are plenty others.

That being said, I think people have a right to be informed, and thats why I am gonna link this:
http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=14712.0

Inb4 ban this is going to be viewed by more people than you, so posting this will have payed off.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 01, 2009, 02:34:34 pm
That being said, I think people have a right to be informed, and thats why I am gonna link this:
http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=14712.0

And since that link answers all the questions and fills everyone in with all the facts, I'm locking this so it won't get deleted due to further replies.

edit - now that eC is no longer an admin and he cannot delete topics, I'm unlocking this.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Farah on July 01, 2009, 04:27:22 pm
woot unbanned.

The goal of any of this was never to antagonise EnEsCe. It was only to find the truth and take appropriate action.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ramirez on July 01, 2009, 04:29:59 pm
The worst thing of this all is not that this really happened, but the fact that even after the truth had came out, EnEsCe tried to hide it and blame it on people like Shoozza. That was just low. :\
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Poop on July 01, 2009, 04:31:19 pm
To me what is amazing at this point is that Enesce has decided to dig his hole further by claiming that he is being framed by about 15 different people that they are all mired in a conspiracy against him. If he had admit his mistakes earlier he might have had a chance to save a bit of face.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Farah on July 01, 2009, 04:33:43 pm
at least it provided quotes like the one in my sig
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Clawbug on July 01, 2009, 04:35:20 pm
Somehow Poop's sig makes me laugh, just barely. ;)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 01, 2009, 04:41:10 pm
He also threatened several people, including me:

[2009/07/01 10:20:01] <EnEsCe> If you continue to allow them to post defamation against me, then you and I are permanently going to have issues.
[2009/07/01 10:20:12] <EnEsCe> And I mean permanently.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Taxi on July 01, 2009, 04:41:23 pm
The suprise to me is, how enesce was the guy chosen to continue the develop of soldat.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 01, 2009, 04:42:43 pm
And if anyone had any doubts about this before now, I urge you all to re consider.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Eagles_Arrows on July 01, 2009, 05:13:38 pm
i think enesce is a pretty cool guy. eh lowers pings and doesn't afraid of anything.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: BackSmack on July 01, 2009, 05:15:12 pm
The suprise to me is, how enesce was the guy chosen to continue the develop of soldat.
He acted good until he got the main developer status.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 01, 2009, 05:19:28 pm
Watch out guys, if you get on the bad side of NSC he'll make your Soldat life a living hell.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: NiveusLuxLucis on July 01, 2009, 05:20:37 pm
Watchout, permanent issues. He'll make your soldat life a living hell.
BEAT ME TO IT SHINOBARS WTF
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Grimbad on July 01, 2009, 05:25:58 pm
And if anyone had any doubts about this before now, I urge you all to re consider.

I had doubts, and was going to post them.
Between the time I opened the last page of the thread and the time I clicked 'reply,' the thread was deleted.
Bye bye doubts.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: FliesLikeABrick on July 01, 2009, 05:34:47 pm
I have deadminned EnEsCe on the forums and unbanned Farah and Gortaak.  Please let me know if there's anyone else who was banned because of this and I will unban them.

When EnEsCe deleted these threads/posts, he also deleted them from the mods/admins-only Trash Bin, where all deleted threads/posts go.  Nobody on the forum staff is ever supposed to edit/delete from there, but he did to cover up his tracks.

Even if the accusations are false, his behavior has been completely beyond anything that he is supposed to do under any of these circumstances.  He did not demonstrate any moderation or decency or wisdom in anything he did in reaction to this, as well as things leading up to it.

What EnEsCe did was completely unacceptable and we'll see what happens over the next few days.  This is only the last in a long list of selfish acts by him.  He has proven that he is incapable of being a soldat server renter, a developer, and a forum admin at the same time.  In order to be all of those things, you really need to be able to keep your hats separate.

He cannot, and has never been able to.

I personally advocate Shoozza joining the developer group.  EnEsCe has kept Shoozza from joining it, even though myself and MM are fine with it.

I really don't see this ending up favorably for EnEsCe at all.

I guess this is what I get for going on holiday for a few days.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Farah on July 01, 2009, 05:39:28 pm
damn he's gonna have soldat 1.5 ddos u13 now
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MadDog on July 01, 2009, 05:49:11 pm
Wow, quite a conspiracy! What a scandal! He's like our version of Bernie Madoff...

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Anyone ever heard that one? Hmm? Someone overhear that in history class? The main reason why civilizations have a tendency to fail is that after a while, the people in control get greedy and stop caring about said civilization. Now while that certainly didn't happen here... the take home message is you cannot allow absolute power.

So how to stop it? Democracy. But that can't really work here. What else?

Exactly what happened. Farah brings the facts to the attention of everyone, and everyone becomes involved. So people need to understand that it's actions like those of Farah that protects the community. That's basically what the fourth estate, the media, does.

When Ensc censored Farah, that's kinda like Iran muzzling the press. Luckily for all of us, the Soldat community here became aware, and the pressure mounted on Ec.

Now here's a very good point, take it to heart. A very smart man once said it. He was a great man. One of America's founders... so you know... he kinda knew what he was talking about-

Thomas Jefferson: "When the people fear the government, it is tyranny. When the government fears the people, it is liberty."

Think of that. Just because admins have vast power, does not mean it's okay to bend down to them. I'm not inciting anarchy (so stop typing your hot-headed, idiotic retort), I'm just saying... it wouldn't hurt if the admins are afraid of us for a change.

@Farah: I don't know you, but I'll give you a lot of credit; you've got far more decency than the guy you exposed. I'm also gonna bet some money you knew the potential consequences of bringing this out... yet you did it anyway. That right there... is courage. It's integrity. Character. And you sure as hell didn't give up when he censored you, you kept at it. That's persistance. That is what makes freedom. Liberty. People have died by those values, and free countries have been created by it.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: truup on July 01, 2009, 05:58:27 pm
..blablaba...
Dude it's just internet haha.

But yeah I'm certainly happy with the outcome of this, I never thought NSC was the right guy to continue developing Soldat to begin with. First server versions he made were decent I admit, fixing a few bugs and scriptcore made some publics fun again but when I saw s**t like lobby chat added instead of fixing existing bugs i just quit the game. I heard the lobbychat was a failure anyways? Like it wasnt expected?

I hope a new better developer takes over soldat and most of the bugs and actual gameplay problems fixed.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Grimbad on July 01, 2009, 06:03:00 pm
@MadDog.
Admins are people too. They're not all in cahoots against 'the people'. Look at FLaB's post. Democracy is working just fine here, now it's been set in motion. Last edit, in accordance with Farahs post: In motion by Farah, that is, blessed be his name and long may he live in the hearts of the glorious people's revolution.  :P
Also, learn more about what anarchy is, please. You'll find it has less to do with what certain people would like you to think anarchy is, and more to do with what you're saying. "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to do the right thing." -Utah Philips
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Farah on July 01, 2009, 06:06:15 pm
no maddog is right i should be revered as the sole drive to this revolutionary action.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MadDog on July 01, 2009, 06:11:49 pm
@MadDog.
Admins are people too. They're not all in cahoots against 'the people'. Look at FLaB's post. Democracy is working just fine here.
Also, learn more about what anarchy is, please. Try Utah Philips.

No thanks, I already know what anarchy is, and the way I see it, I used the word just fine.

Yeah, I can see how admins are people... censoring and banning and fraud. You're so right! Greedy, mean-spirited, and back-stabbing all wrapped together. Now I'm just kidding around, but still, saying they're "people" too doesn't exactly say anything really positive. Since when are people good?

And where did I say they're "in cahoots against 'the people"??? What is wrong with you? This post of yours is full of worthless text. Please, just because I say something that doesn't meet the 'butt'-kissing regulations doesn't mean you should overreact.

@Farah: No you're not quite there yet, Farah. Try getting shot at a little bit, and you'll be closer.  ;)

Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Illuminatus on July 01, 2009, 06:13:27 pm
Wouh...just PMed flab some hours ago asking what happend with the topic concerning enesce's servers and -BAMM- I didn't thought of that big outcome...

best lines so far:
<EnEsCe> you challenge me I will make your Soldat life a living hell.
[...]
<EnEsCe> lol, I will just ring your datacenter and you can enjoy a lawsuit from Layered Technologies in Dallas...
<EnEsCe> and enjoy the rootkit in the soldatserver I activate on whatever servers you run
<EnEsCe> and maybe then ill activate the DDoS client in Soldat 1.5 and force them all to TCP and/or UDP spam you.
<EnEsCe> enjoy the 100,000 people internationally doing it
[...]
<EnEsCe> haha, you are acting like a terrorist man
<EnEsCe> I already fucking TOLD YOU TODAY that I will pay for the bill
[...]
<mafioza> are there rootkits installed on my server?
<EnEsCe> hundreds and hundreds lol
[...]
<mafioza> <EnEsCe> I said, why are you trying to start an arguement?
<mafioza> <mafioza> im asking
<mafioza> <mafioza> cause im concerned regards to the health of people's servers
<mafioza> <EnEsCe> no your not, your concerned about yourself and soldat.multi's future
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 01, 2009, 06:31:35 pm
@MadDog.
Admins are people too. They're not all in cahoots against 'the people'. Look at FLaB's post. Democracy is working just fine here.
Also, learn more about what anarchy is, please. Try Utah Philips.

No thanks, I already know what anarchy is, and the way I see it, I used the word just fine.

Yeah, I can see how admins are people... censoring and banning and fraud. You're so right! Greedy, mean-spirited, and back-stabbing all wrapped together. Now I'm just kidding around, but still, saying they're "people" too doesn't exactly say anything really positive. Since when are people good?

And where did I say they're "in cahoots against 'the people"??? What is wrong with you? This post of yours is full of worthless text. Please, just because I say something that doesn't meet the 'butt'-kissing regulations doesn't mean you should overreact.

@Farah: No you're not quite there yet, Farah. Try getting shot at a little bit, and you'll be closer.  ;)



I will deffinately stand beside the admins on this one. With the execption of NSC, they have all done thier best to keep this topic up and running, and prevent him from stopping it. They have dug into everything looking for answers and dealing with the situation correctly.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ~Niko~ on July 01, 2009, 06:32:22 pm
I bet this will have bigger consequences by the time...
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MadDog on July 01, 2009, 06:40:04 pm
@Gortaak

Oh dear. You know, I honestly tried to put this simply. [Sigh] This is such a pain in the a$$...

1. At no point on this thread did I ever accuse any current or past admins of every committing, or considering to committ any type of fraud, power abuse, or favoring towards anyone here.

2. At no point on this thread did I indicate that standard operating procedure of Soldat Forums admins is to cheat, swindle, fraud, or abuse.

3. At no point on this thread did I accuse any current or past admins of not performing quality work on the forum.

There now, if you still don't understand that, please please indicate in your next post what language you would like me to repeat it in.

Now, the point of my mod, which it seems everyone automatically misses, is that its good to monitor admins, and this is proof that you cannot ASSUME that no admin can be flawless when given absolute power.

Now, should I just repeat all my posts in Spanish, or can you please understand this?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Illuminatus on July 01, 2009, 06:56:57 pm
There it goes: selfkill-news (http://selfkill.com/webv3/content/cms.php?action=showdetails&id=634&title=Aktuelle%20Meldungen).
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on July 01, 2009, 07:20:43 pm
Well.. this is sad and unexpected. Let's hope Soldat will still have a nice and bright future.






p.s. I wonder if the source code is still in safe hands. :|
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: EnEsCe on July 01, 2009, 08:30:56 pm
http://enesce.com/272/soldat/statement-regarding-ping
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Rangedmage14 on July 01, 2009, 08:52:15 pm
MadDog are you a history teacher? Schools out, chilll man with the history lessons.

I mean.... hm I don't see how the ping showing up on the ingame F1/F3 had anything to do with gameplay like bullettrails. Or else no one would've ever made a big deal if the lower ping really improved players game play.
From what I've read, I've understood that your ingame "fake" ping was really 50-60 average off. So if it showed a high ping ingame but the game play was still the same, how the heck would that make a difference if it showed low ping ingame and game play didn't change from the high ping?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: m00` on July 01, 2009, 09:20:33 pm
soldat is serious business
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 01, 2009, 09:29:25 pm
http://pastebin.com/f58e58820
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 01, 2009, 10:28:24 pm
MadDog are you a history teacher? Schools out, chilll man with the history lessons.

I mean.... hm I don't see how the ping showing up on the ingame F1/F3 had anything to do with gameplay like bullettrails. Or else no one would've ever made a big deal if the lower ping really improved players game play.
From what I've read, I've understood that your ingame "fake" ping was really 50-60 average off. So if it showed a high ping ingame but the game play was still the same, how the heck would that make a difference if it showed low ping ingame and game play didn't change from the high ping?

The point is fraud. Also if he could do something like that, who know what else he could/can/will/has done.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ILoveEnEsCe on July 01, 2009, 10:31:27 pm
cant believe people trusted that smeagle looking ugly fuck in the first place
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: The Geologist on July 01, 2009, 10:36:04 pm
cant believe people trusted that smeagle looking ugly f**k in the first place

Hello.  I see that you have a lot to say, and that your choice of name is very creative.

Watch for a little bit.  Talk later.

The damage is done people.  Discuss as you like, but crap like this will not be tolerated.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on July 01, 2009, 10:38:25 pm
cant believe people trusted that smeagle looking ugly f**k in the first place

Hello.  I see that you have a lot to say, and that your choice if name is very creative.

Watch for a little bit.  Talk later.

The damage is done people, but crap like this will not be tolerated.

I knew he would get some spanking for that comment . ;O

Seriously though, don't rush with accusations. Sure the situation smells bad right now, but maybe it's all not so bad as it seems. Who knows.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: The Owls on July 01, 2009, 10:48:36 pm
I find it more amusing that he's gone through about 4 or 5 different excuses.  From being framed, to "accidental" left in code.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ~Niko~ on July 01, 2009, 10:49:46 pm
cant believe people trusted that smeagle looking ugly f**k in the first place
^love how he changed his name ahahahahahahha
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Poop on July 01, 2009, 10:51:14 pm
Ill let the people that know something about computers respond to what he is claiming. But at this point, the sequence of events which led to his most recent "excuse" does not really make it easy, or even smart to believe him.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 01, 2009, 11:14:31 pm
Ill let the people that know something about computers respond to what he is claiming. But at this point, the sequence of events which led to his most recent "excuse" does not really make it easy, or even smart to believe him.
Its entirely possible what he is saying, but highly unlikely, that a chunk of left over code from a bug from 2 years ago, just started messing with his servers 6 months ago. :/
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: SpiltCoffee on July 01, 2009, 11:33:20 pm
You mean it was first noticed 6 months ago, Gortaak. It's most likely been affecting his servers for the entire time he's had it there.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: scarface09 on July 02, 2009, 12:05:42 am
Farah deserved to be banned...be a hero nxt time. Don't be smart nxt time.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 02, 2009, 12:07:59 am
Farah deserved to be banned...be a hero nxt time. Don't be smart nxt time.

Not in this specific situation he didn't. Yes, he has done dumb things in the past, but with this he didn't do anything wrong at all.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: scarface09 on July 02, 2009, 12:25:56 am
Well all those things accumulated together and caused a massive eruption. In this case, EnEsCe had to deal with it.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 02, 2009, 12:36:56 am
Oh, so NSC banned Farah because of the things he'd done in the forums before starting this whole discussion. EnEsCe must have been too busy to ban Farah earlier. Thanks for clearing that up, scarface.

Perhaps let's stop flaming and talking about useless things in a discussion that needs to be taken very seriously. We've dicked around and trolled enough already.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 02, 2009, 12:38:10 am
And then what about me scarface? Why was I banned? I have never had so much as a warning in the 3+ years Ive been a member of these forums.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: The Geologist on July 02, 2009, 12:43:53 am
Perhaps let's stop flaming and talking about useless things in a discussion that needs to be taken very seriously. We've dicked around and trolled enough already.

Sounds like the perfect plan.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 02, 2009, 12:44:23 am
And then what about me scarface? Why was I banned? I have never had so much as a warning in the 3+ years Ive been a member of these forums.

Don't take it personally. eC was having a hissie fit.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: EnEsCe on July 02, 2009, 12:50:32 am
My statement has been updated, please revisit the post.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Clawbug on July 02, 2009, 01:05:25 am
Been working on the server for over 3 years, and do not know how the ping is calculated. Needless to say that we, as a whole community need a better programmer for our beloved game.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: iDante on July 02, 2009, 01:23:47 am
EnEsCe has publicly apologized and the underlying problem has been fixed. I can accept what he says about it being a mistake that he didn't notice, even if that isn't the case I doubt he'd try that sort of thing again after all this.

Been working on the server for over 3 years, and do not know how the ping is calculated. Needless to say that we, as a whole community need a better programmer for our beloved game.
I think the only person that knows how soldat works better than him is MM. I do suggest Shoozza become a dev though 'cause he's pwnage :) (But NSC should stay one too 'cause I want more scriptcore stuff)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 02, 2009, 01:49:31 am
Quote
Shoozza: Why you said different stuff which maked you look like you have lied?
EnEsCe: I was asked if mafioza is a hacker, and I responded saying I do not know him. Meaning I do not know him that well enough to answer that, if he would be a hacker or not. SpiltCoffee then asked me about if I was in a partnership with him, which prompted me to remember where that name comes from. I quite simply do not remember every random person I meet on the internet, I’m not a robot :P

Why would you not remember someone you had a partnership with?

Quote
Shoozza: Why you deleted the threads and banned people continuesely which looked like censorship?
EnEsCe: I was acting in blind rage, and yes I know it was wrong. I would never have done it normally, I can’t remember what exactly was going through my mind at the time. I most likely thought it would stop people harassing me on IRC; and people I trusted echoing confidential conversations etc, I also felt the other admins were all against me already. I acknowledge that it was stupid and I abused my admin privileges by doing so. Fair enough. I would have liked to read it all eventually. I apologize to the other forum admins for the trouble I caused, they did the right thing.

Why were you in a blind rage when no one, besides one guy, if I recall correctly, who was out of line, was provoking you, but rather were asking legitimate questions? Furthermore, people harassing you on IRC is easily fixed by the ignore function. I honestly can't see why you would think the admins were out to get you, as well.

Quote
Shoozza: Why you took the servers of SCTFL down?
EnEsCe: Their sponsorship was removed because they were posting malicious comments about me without hearing my side of the story.

I don't recall anyone other than Poop or ramirez posting anything about you, and I don't remember any flaming or defamation from any of their posts (at least not until after you deleted the thread and banned Farah/Grishnak). Poop may have seemed a little judgmental, but that's just how he is. I, personally, don't see how you can terminate sponsoring the largest league of Soldat because of the small irritant that is Poop. They are your servers and you have the right to do with them as you please, but I just find your ending the SCTFL-eC partnership a little unjustified.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Leo on July 02, 2009, 02:27:40 am
I support Shoozza for Soldat developer. This should have happened long time ago. Take the guy in.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ramirez on July 02, 2009, 02:35:30 am
I don't really want to stir up s**t anymore, but I don't think you're telling the whole truth here EnEsCe.

Quote
EnEsCe: As some of you know, [almost] every time I have released a dedicated server there has been some debug stuff that I forgot to remove upon release (Most notably lines in console).
How is it possible that you somehow remembered to remove the ping code for every server release, but it somehow "accidentally" managed to stay in your binary for this long? If what you said was true, the ping code would've been enabled for ALL servers or NO servers at all. But it was only enabled on yours, so it's obvious to me that this was no accident. Furthermore, this whole ping issue has been in your attention for months, probably over half a year, and it's only now that you suddenly find the code causing this after you're caught red handed. Isn't that a bit too convenient.

I'm also offended that you blame the SCTFL admins for posting malicious comments about you. We HAD heard your side of the story (both Poop and I were active during the discussion on #Shoozza yesterday, and we knew both sides' story). We greatly care for this community and all we wanted is for the truth to get out, we were not in any personal crusade after you. I for one have always supported and defended you being a dev for the game, when many has had major issues with it. It's not really an issue though, since we were also planning on canceling the sponsorship, so no hard feelings.

I also think the deleting the topic out of "mad rage" isn't the whole truth. I can understand that you were angry and you deleted it from the General Discussions, but why would you remove it from the trash bin as well, which no regular members can even see. The only reasonable explanation is that you were trying to hide your involvement.

I think there are too many inconsistencies for your story to hold, but at least you're showing remorse, which I find positive. Let's leave the rest for MM and the others to decide, but I'd like to also show my full support for Shoozza becoming part of the development team. He's a nice and intelligent guy, and I believe he's got what it takes to make Soldat a better game.

EDIT.

Also you said this earlier:
Quote
[04:06:41] <EnEsCe> It's not really losable, every single person in that thread, including you, is proving to be a moron who lacks perspective and logic. That binary that was posted was UPX compressed... Why would I UPX compress a binary that was only going on my server?
Now we all know for a certain that the binary was on your server, yet it was UPX compressed. And you had to know about this from the start, because binaries don't UPX compress themselves. I'd sure like to hear an explanation for this, because right now it looks like you were trying to come up with a "logical excuse" to deny your involvement-
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on July 02, 2009, 03:12:21 am
I think that it was wrong of EnEsCe to rent out developmental servers anyway, regardless of anything else. No other server provider can offer his customers exclusive access to the next generation server version, and EnEsCe shouldn't have that advantage either, no matter if he develops it.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: DragonSlayer on July 02, 2009, 03:16:40 am
I can't believe that you wouldn't remember mafioza, it hasn't even been half a year since the partnership. To call him a random person you met on the internet is pretty ridiculous. Not to mention that in those mafioza logs he apparently addressed you with the ping issue and yet nothing was done about it... on your servers. The code was always removed from the new server version but somehow you never remembered to remove it from yours. It's clear you have been aware of the ping issue for a long time now. The fact that you didn't deal with it when mafioza talked about it with you, your overall attitude in the logs, deleting the old topic, your past and the inconsistencies in your story really don't help your case at all and I really don't think there's a reason to believe you at this point.

I'm pretty sad about this because I genuinely believed that you were the right person to develop Soldat, that the hacks and other stupid acts were thing of the past, and I have defended you many times when someone has tried to start some s**t about you on IRC. However, I'm not so gullible to think that this was an accident after considering the available information and everything that has happened. And I'm not exactly expecting you to admit altering the pings either since assuming it wasn't an accident, it's an illegal scam. And even if it was actually an accident, the attitude you have shown in the logs and here on the forums, threatening and banning people, deleting topics (even from the trash bin) and the fact that you have ignored the ping issue for half a year shows that you might not be qualified to be part of the development team, or at least not to hold any power to make someone's Soldat life a living hell as you put it. As a developer, you partly represent Soldat and the community and I think it should be out of questions to do or say some of the things you have done here.

Anyway, it's good that you are apologizing and offering refunds, it's definitely a right thing to do and I respect that. And I'm sorry if I sound overly negative, I'm not trying to insult you or anything of the sort, I just genuinely believe this is not an accident and for a good reason. I never had a problem with you so this isn't personal, don't take it that way.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Leo on July 02, 2009, 03:25:18 am
I think that it was wrong of EnEsCe to rent out developmental servers anyway, regardless of anything else. No other server provider can offer his customers exclusive access to the next generation server version, and EnEsCe shouldn't have that advantage either, no matter if he develops it.
Agree, being developer AND offering server rentals are conflict interests somehow. If there is a need for tests I am sure there are many server owners that are willing to help.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: STM1993 on July 02, 2009, 03:38:26 am
I don't see 100% honesty, even in his statement, but I believe eC should be forgiven despite the many flaws he had displayed. I just hope he overcomes his vices and not repeat these mistakes again. Give him one more chance, I have faith in him.

Other than that, I have no other comments on the matter. I'd leave that to you guys to settle.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Clawbug on July 02, 2009, 03:47:20 am
I don't see a lot of honesty, even in the apology, but I believe eC should be forgiven despite the many flaws he had displayed. I just hope he overcomes his vices and not repeat these mistakes again. Give him one more chance, I have faith in him.

Other than that, I have no other comments on the matter. I'd leave that to the staff.
The thing is, that he has already got one chance to be a better person and work towards the community. In my opinion, while this issue (only if he is guilty) doesn't necessarily show that he isn't up to work for the community, it shows that he is not trustworthy and does some of the work for his own benefit and doing it by abusing his position is not something to be forgiven easily. In the end, if he did skew the pings intentionally, not only did he abuse his position for his own personal benefit but also cheat his paying customers.

And I agree with xurich and Leo, it clearly gives him advantage over other server providers, and that is not fair in terms of competition.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Farah on July 02, 2009, 04:44:01 am
was already posted if you'd care to read this topic.

Anyways, I find it very hard to believe this statement, and dismiss my MULTIPLE bans(even after other admins had unbanned me because they could not see how me bringing up the topic was "defamation" at all) as just irrational blind rage. You did not even care to read the content of the topic, thus assuming you knew what was coming and you tried to control the information coming into soldatforums. I also like how you accused me of actually reading your blog and coinciding my topic from when you were going to be busy, 'sif I actually would give a damn enough to actually read your blog or your twitter(microblogging...lol). Trying to dismiss me and many others as a conspirator against you? "Employing the services of hackers"? Defaming a business to which you would not even give me the ABN(implying you do this off the books, which makes your legal threats bollocks, and your "business" put in jeopardy).

[15:43:28] <EnEsCe> no, explaining is not defamation, getting a hacker to create a hacked binary and use that as evidence is.

Of which I did not even post.... So the topic wasn't defaming you, the very post with the so-called hacked binary was? Christ, you should get your explanations sorted. I really cannot believe that all of this was just blind rage and that you did not know what you were thinking, when the the first topic was made I tried to keep it as civil as possible, keeping the implications of the inconsistency broad because contrary to your belief, it was never to directly antagonise you. It was for an explanation to be made and the appropriate actions(or lack of) to be taken by the appropriate people. The second topic just summarises the whole situation and was compiled by a group of people.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Chariot on July 02, 2009, 04:46:56 am
I don't buy it. You advertised your servers as having low ping when you first offered them, meaning you KNEW they were lower than other hosts. It didn't click with you that the difference in pings in your servers and other servers was simply too big? You didn't stop to think why that is? You already knew why, its simple.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MetsuriTossavainen on July 02, 2009, 04:50:15 am
Oh EnEsCe... How could you? :(

Shoozza has a lot of experience in coding so he should be part of the dev team. He's a nice guy.

Viva la Revolution!
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Ouchek on July 02, 2009, 05:21:21 am
Look guys, it's rather easy to sum up the situation : He tricked us all, and now he's coming up with some weird excuses, I would be willing to "forgive" him if he actually admitted to his mistakes but he's still trying to bulls**t us all.
Remove him from the dev team and get some people who will focus on fixing bugs instead of making different head explosions/radio commands thanks
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Jack the CAMPER on July 02, 2009, 06:22:28 am
Shoozza for president \o/
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Michal Marcinkowski on July 02, 2009, 06:35:56 am
I feel like a bear being brought out from sleep (haven't posted here in a while) and to be honest I'm quite annoyed by this. I'm annoyed by anything that stops me from working on games and it annoys me that EnEsCe could have also done some work instead of writing long posts and conducting" interviews".

EnEsCe wrote an apology and explanation here regarding the pings on his server. You can read it:
http://enesce.com/272/soldat/statement-regarding-ping/

I talked to him and from what I know and remember it is true. The lowered ping was used for temporarily fixing bullet trails. EnEsCe obviously made a mistake by leaving it I believe unintentionally. During the years I also left many "debug" stuff sitting in the code, but I wasn't accused for it because I am not running a servers business.

For me EnEsCe failed in the public relations realm but I do not blame him for that because really I don't care. What matters is if he delivers a new Soldat version or not. The game is all that matters in the end and never forget about that.

That is why I am focusing on my new game Link-Dead, which will be awesome (I am actively running a development log on http://mm.soldat.pl)

The lesson here to be learnt is:

Do not jump on the bandwagon too quickly. Stay away from drama and gossip. That's the realm of women. As Men we should concentrate on Truth, Respect of one another and making good Work. Learn to separate those that work hard on creating something and those that just talk. EnEsCe is making a fine job with the new version, so if you really care about the game, wait for Soldat 1.5.1.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: m00` on July 02, 2009, 06:46:09 am
yeah girls suck
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Meteorisch on July 02, 2009, 06:47:46 am
Proooooo enesce proooo. bye
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Squakingcow on July 02, 2009, 07:03:06 am
The explanation EC posted is all well and good but the logs showing conversations between EC and mafioza show that EC was well aware of the problems months ago when he initially launched his European servers, however I guess since the logs cannot be verified as being real they can be fobbed off as being 'fake'...

Still seems a bit far fetched that once Shoozza had isolated the lines of code that showed where the ping reduction was happening that EC didn't just step in and inform everyone then that it was a section of code accidental left in from debugging, but whatever.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ramirez on July 02, 2009, 07:05:37 am
The explanation EC posted is all well and good but the logs showing conversations between EC and mafioza show that EC was well aware of the problems months ago when he initially launched his European servers, however I guess since the logs cannot be verified as being real they can be fobbed off as being 'fake'...
He pretty much admitted that they were true in the interview with Shoozza, so they're definitely not fake.

Quote
I talked to him and from what I know and remember it is true. The lowered ping was used for temporarily fixing bullet trails. EnEsCe obviously made a mistake by leaving it I believe unintentionally. During the years I also left many "debug" stuff sitting in the code, but I wasn't accused for it because I am not running a servers business.
It still doesn't explain why the "forgotten fix" was only enabled on his server. If it was forgotten there, it should have happened on all servers, not just his.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on July 02, 2009, 07:07:47 am
To return from my two month ban, which I received from EnEsCe, for asking questions about his hacking past, I must say, I, am, laughing, my, penis off.


April 13 - The same day I got banned, (I think)

Quote
You have just been sent a personal message by jrgp on Official Soldat Forums.
 
IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.
 
The message they sent you was:
 
Quote
(Me) - Xurich locked a perfect relavent topic about EnEsCe's dark and gruesome past. Claiming I am trying to "cause trouble". Everyone in the community has a right to know about EnEcSe's criminal past
 
(jrgp) - EnEsCe hasn't been evil for years and years and YEARS. Stop ragging on him. Especially since right now he's doing all the soldat work since MM hasn't time.


It's funny how I am right, and you're all wrong.
I've never liked EnEsCe, from the very first post I read of his. He trolls, flames, he bans people and locks topics for no real reason.

Everyone said his changed. Sure I acknowledge his done stuff for Soldat, But I saw this coming months ago.

Can I get admin rights? For my excellent detective work?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Squakingcow on July 02, 2009, 07:22:01 am
It has also occurred to me after thinking about it, if the lowering of the ping in-game was to test if it would fix the issue with bullet trials, if you were going to do so you would not go to the effort of scripting it so that once you reach 100ms ping you get a 50ms in-game reduction, you would reduce all pings in the game to 16, and then see if there was a difference between the bullets from a player of a known high ping and one of a low ping.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ramirez on July 02, 2009, 07:26:02 am
Also if it was a fix, why would you reduce it from the actual variable that is used to calculate the ping, instead of just using the reduced value in the corresponding algorithm, eg:
Code: [Select]
bullet_trail(PingTicks-2);vs
Code: [Select]
PingTicks -= 2;
bullet_trail(PingTicks);

The former would be more logical "fix" attempt.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: truup on July 02, 2009, 07:30:10 am
I really don't see why everyone buys that explanation, obviously he was saving it up until once someone finds out. Only EnEsCe knows if it was left there intentionally, and considering the sole fact (which was proven AGAIN) that he is abusing his power and position, it's really hard to believe that he didn't do it intentionally.

Also, no comment on MM's post, anyone can see through the message..
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: n2j3 on July 02, 2009, 07:37:14 am
Also, no comment on MM's post, anyone can see through the message..
oh yes, I see pretty well

(http://666kb.com/i/baatyjljunpty6r23.png)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Geoffrey on July 02, 2009, 07:45:52 am
I respect MM's position as creator of Soldat giving him the final say in these matters but he explicitly says he doesn't really care. Personally I think that someone with a more current interest in this community should decide. Letting flab decide would be the most sensible course of action in my opinion.

Sorry but I simply don't believe these excuses.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on July 02, 2009, 07:47:17 am
Also, no comment on MM's post, anyone can see through the message..
oh yes, I see pretty well

(http://666kb.com/i/baatyjljunpty6r23.png)

Lol'd.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: skn0fx on July 02, 2009, 07:50:37 am
i made this joke a few months ago

if (ip="enesce.com") then lag:=0;
else lag:=1;

damn.. i was so close :\
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: STM1993 on July 02, 2009, 07:51:35 am
I respect MM's position as creator of Soldat giving him the final say in these matters but he explicitly says he doesn't really care. Personally I think that someone with a more current interest in this community should decide. Letting flab decide would be the most sensible course of action in my opinion.

Sorry but I simply don't believe these excuses.
However, as he said, what really matters is that there is progress. This issue must have delayed the coming of 1.5.1 and will continue delaying if it goes on any further, that isn't very good. So instead of continuing to talk about this, we should just move on.

Be appreciative of the free stuff. You normally don't deserve them in the first place.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Leo on July 02, 2009, 07:52:29 am
Well it's obvious from MM's post that he doesn't really care about Soldat anymore. I suggest he sell the rights of the game and the source code to someone that does.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: skn0fx on July 02, 2009, 07:56:10 am
maybe he could let the beta team decide ?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Poop on July 02, 2009, 07:59:43 am
maybe he could let the beta team decide ?

lol that would be quite a dumb idea.

In my opinion Flieslikeabrick should decide what to do here, and whether to add a new developer alongside Enesce if he is staying as dev.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MetsuriTossavainen on July 02, 2009, 08:09:52 am
maybe he could let the beta team decide ?

lol that would be quite a dumb idea.

In my opinion Flieslikeabrick should decide what to do here, and whether to add a new developer alongside Enesce if he is staying as dev.
I agree, because FLAB is the next guy from MM.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Biggles on July 02, 2009, 09:05:15 am
maybe he could let the beta team decide ?

lol that would be quite a dumb idea.

In my opinion Flieslikeabrick should decide what to do here, and whether to add a new developer alongside Enesce if he is staying as dev.
I agree, because FLAB is the next guy from MM.

Don't push flab too much even if he probably should decide, Great responsibility usually just leads to trouble..
Quite horrible behaviour from enesce's side since those things affects reality and real money. I guess that's why everyone is making this so important and dramatic, because really... the game doesn't matter at all.
Whatever seems like everything is alright now and this moment seems great to advertise a little, Join SRL wehee we need more clans there  8)

http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: soulblade on July 02, 2009, 09:24:08 am
I do not buy any of these excuses either. There is way too much evidence stacked up against NSC and I'm pretty disappointed in Michal's post. Even if somehow this has all been an accident, NSC has shown lack of responsibility and abuse of power and is not suitable for his position.

It's time for someone else to develop soldat. Until then, no more beta testing for me. I'm out.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: SpiltCoffee on July 02, 2009, 09:25:27 am
Quote
<SpiltCoffee> I have one more question, EnEsCe...
<SpiltCoffee> EnEsCe: "It still doesn't explain why the "forgotten fix" was only enabled on his server. If it was forgotten there, it should have happened on all servers, not just his."
<SpiltCoffee> Would that be because you work on two versions, the development version and the official version, and you take stuff that works from the development version over to the official version?
<EnEsCe> didnt I say it was left in because that code only compiles on the dev version?
<SpiltCoffee> Well, people are still thinking "well, if it appeared in the development version for 2 years, why hasn't it appeared anywhere else?"
<SpiltCoffee> I think because most people believe the dev version is the exact base for what eventually is released
<SpiltCoffee> Is that the case?
<EnEsCe> that sounds abit dumb, how could they expect a development version to appear anywhere other than the developers server?
<SpiltCoffee> Hang on, I'll get another quote
<SpiltCoffee> lol
<SpiltCoffee> You're not getting me yet
<SpiltCoffee> "How is it possible that you somehow remembered to remove the ping code for every server release, but it somehow "accidentally" managed to stay in your binary for this long? If what you said was true, the ping code would've been enabled for ALL servers or NO servers at all. But it was only enabled on yours, so it's obvious to me that this was no accident. Furthermore, this whole ping issue has been in your attention for month
<SpiltCoffee> s, probably over half a year, and it's only now that you suddenly find the code causing this after you're caught red handed. Isn't that a bit too convenient."
<EnEsCe> introduce them to compiler directives
<SpiltCoffee> Eh, that'll do for an answer, I guess...
Just (an attempt of) an answer to those wondering why it's only his servers being affected if he forgot about it...
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Zischer on July 02, 2009, 09:29:46 am
Also, no comment on MM's post, anyone can see through the message..
oh yes, I see pretty well

(http://666kb.com/i/baatyjljunpty6r23.png)

Ye, imho the advertisement and the sexual discrimination (what a lesson..-.-) contained in MM's response are pretty much misplaced. How to discover the truth, if not talking about it? And what has Link Dead to do with the issue, or more exactly, with Soldat? Nothing.

Baah, disappointing. And I can't believe any of those lame excuses, really.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MetsuriTossavainen on July 02, 2009, 09:34:33 am
It's all so confusing when NSC tries to make things clear in his statement but he still tries to hide the truth with tricky answers.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ramirez on July 02, 2009, 09:58:22 am
Quote
<SpiltCoffee> I have one more question, EnEsCe...
<SpiltCoffee> EnEsCe: "It still doesn't explain why the "forgotten fix" was only enabled on his server. If it was forgotten there, it should have happened on all servers, not just his."
<SpiltCoffee> Would that be because you work on two versions, the development version and the official version, and you take stuff that works from the development version over to the official version?
<EnEsCe> didnt I say it was left in because that code only compiles on the dev version?
<SpiltCoffee> Well, people are still thinking "well, if it appeared in the development version for 2 years, why hasn't it appeared anywhere else?"
<SpiltCoffee> I think because most people believe the dev version is the exact base for what eventually is released
<SpiltCoffee> Is that the case?
<EnEsCe> that sounds abit dumb, how could they expect a development version to appear anywhere other than the developers server?
<SpiltCoffee> Hang on, I'll get another quote
<SpiltCoffee> lol
<SpiltCoffee> You're not getting me yet
<SpiltCoffee> "How is it possible that you somehow remembered to remove the ping code for every server release, but it somehow "accidentally" managed to stay in your binary for this long? If what you said was true, the ping code would've been enabled for ALL servers or NO servers at all. But it was only enabled on yours, so it's obvious to me that this was no accident. Furthermore, this whole ping issue has been in your attention for month
<SpiltCoffee> s, probably over half a year, and it's only now that you suddenly find the code causing this after you're caught red handed. Isn't that a bit too convenient."
<EnEsCe> introduce them to compiler directives
<SpiltCoffee> Eh, that'll do for an answer, I guess...
Just (an attempt of) an answer to those wondering why it's only his servers being affected if he forgot about it...
Compiler directives is obviously a poor excuse, because EnEsCe said before that he had "forgotten debug stuff" on final releases. Exact quote:
Quote
    EnEsCe: As some of you know, [almost] every time I have released a dedicated server there has been some debug stuff that I forgot to remove upon release (Most notably lines in console).
So yeah, he's obviously not using pre-compiler directives to selectively compile the code only for his server, this quote proves that, otherwise those other things wouldn't have been forgotten there either. I can see that EnEsCe tries to argue this by saying that sometimes he uses pre-compiler directives, so no need to even ask him. Just pointing out that what he's saying is contradictory with his other statements (and this isn't the first time either, he alters his story as this thing progresses).

And even if he does use compiler directives to hide the code from public releases (which would still be intentionally, not by accident), don't forget that there are other proof to back up the claim. He's been aware of this issue for a long time (because mafioza told mentioned it), so it's obvious that EnEsCe knew about the lowered ping only on his server. If it was by accident, he would've looked into it then, which he didn't for obvious reasons.

Quote
<mafioza> <mafioza> i did test it tho
<mafioza> <mafioza> i ran a server straight from ssh
<mafioza> <mafioza> my ping was 100
<mafioza> <mafioza> from php commander
<mafioza> <mafioza> 50
<mafioza> <EnEsCe> yep
<mafioza> <EnEsCe> soldatmonitor?
<mafioza> <mafioza> what about it
<mafioza> <EnEsCe> I mean were you running with soldatmonitor
<mafioza> <mafioza> no
<mafioza> <mafioza> just regular
<mafioza> <EnEsCe> mk

Also you are forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT fact. If EnEsCe was talking the truth why did he say that mafioza never had any sort of access to the server? This alone, and I mean alone proves that EnEsCe was trying to hide that the binary came from his server. And my guess is that EnEsCe's counter argument is that he "didn't remember" that mafioza had access, but I can say at this point that is f**king bulls**t because of course he knew he had access to the server he paid himself. You guys really need to stop being so gullible, I could forgive EnEsCe if he just admitted it, but he's still trying to deceive us all, and you're letting him do it.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: skn0fx on July 02, 2009, 10:06:43 am
i guess no one believes him,, except for MM but thats cuz he didnt read it all !
if i was the boss:
- enesce
+ shoozza
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Vv00t-SN on July 02, 2009, 10:59:55 am
Quote
And even if he does use compiler directives to hide the code from public releases (which would still be intentionally, not by accident), don't forget that there are other proof to back up the claim. He's been aware of this issue for a long time (because mafioza told mentioned it), so it's obvious that EnEsCe knew about the lowered ping only on his server. If it was by accident, he would've looked into it then, which he didn't for obvious reasons.

I might even be convinced that he didnt do it intentionally, and only learned of it when Mafiaguy told him, but its more than likely that he figured out the advantage he could draw from this at that point, and has been profiting from it (in a very real sense) ever since.

The MM reply, although typical, is a complete disappointment, and further evidence to the fact that he has completely stopped caring for the game and the community built around it.

btw, rami you up for soldat dev? ;)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: PQ on July 02, 2009, 11:12:51 am
MM's reply is sad.. "because really I don't care"

You've let me down.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 02, 2009, 11:27:08 am
I respect MM's position as creator of Soldat giving him the final say in these matters but he explicitly says he doesn't really care. Personally I think that someone with a more current interest in this community should decide. Letting flab decide would be the most sensible course of action in my opinion.

Sorry but I simply don't believe these excuses.
However, as he said, what really matters is that there is progress. This issue must have delayed the coming of 1.5.1 and will continue delaying if it goes on any further, that isn't very good. So instead of continuing to talk about this, we should just move on.

Be appreciative of the free stuff. You normally don't deserve them in the first place.

Seriously?

You're honestly going to say that we should ignore all NSC has done because we're "delaying" the release of 1.5.1? I expected something more intelligent from you, STM.

MM hasn't cared about Soldat for a long time, and I don't see why he would start caring now. Something has to be done about this whole situation, and with MM not caring, there are two people who can take over: FLAB and NSC. Considering NSC is the one being accused and has overwhelming evidence against him, I think it's safe to say we're going to have to go with FLAB.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MetsuriTossavainen on July 02, 2009, 11:35:59 am
maybe he could let the beta team decide ?

lol that would be quite a dumb idea.

In my opinion Flieslikeabrick should decide what to do here, and whether to add a new developer alongside Enesce if he is staying as dev.
I agree, because FLAB is the next guy from MM.

Don't push flab too much even if he probably should decide, Great responsibility usually just leads to trouble..
Someone has to do the decision.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Laser Guy on July 02, 2009, 12:09:32 pm
MM's reply is sad.. "because really I don't care"

You've let me down.
That's probably what we all feel :/

Soldat was just an experiment that went wild and now that MM has a new project he throws the old one away.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: STM1993 on July 02, 2009, 12:16:31 pm
You're honestly going to say that we should ignore all NSC has done because we're "delaying" the release of 1.5.1? I expected something more intelligent from you, STM.
I mean that NSC should get another chance and be allowed to remain in his current position, though it doesn't mean he would be clear of his mistakes - his reputation has suffered badly, and made worse with this issue. While NSC has failed in terms of the server business, I trust NSC's ability to develop Soldat. I don't really care so much about the character as long as someone does his work and it benefits as a whole.

There should be more than one developer to help in the development, so Shoozza should be part of the team. This is especially the case when beta testers aren't doing a lot at the moment. As for the part on "delaying", I admit it made no sense, I take that back.

I'm not surprised to see MM not care about his very own game anymore. Since it has come to this, I'd concur that someone else has to take the role of overseeing Soldat and its community. I personally believe FLAB should do it.

Whatever happens, I just hope to see our Soldat lives return to normal or be better.


Time for bed, really sleepy and its past 1am and got school in the morning.

EDIT:
Back from school. Added and changed a few more points I couldn't think of last night.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: DorkeyDear on July 02, 2009, 12:30:59 pm
Also if it was a fix, why would you reduce it from the actual variable that is used to calculate the ping, instead of just using the reduced value in the corresponding algorithm, eg:
Code: [Select]
bullet_trail(PingTicks-2);vs
Code: [Select]
PingTicks -= 2;
bullet_trail(PingTicks);

The former would be more logical "fix" attempt.
Both do the same thing in terms of what he was trying to do, so it shouldn't have mattered. He could have simply thought of it, and came to the first location where he could have modified, and placed it there. This cannot be used as a reason.

I'm not really sure about the whole final excuse (as posted on http://enesce.com/272/soldat/statement-regarding-ping/), so I will leave my self at no opinion towards that.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Furai on July 02, 2009, 12:39:15 pm
Anyway, I'm afraid of troyans and keyloggers - due to it I'm unistalling soldat.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ValiS on July 02, 2009, 12:53:47 pm
NOOOOO! Thats blasphemy! Uninstalling soldat in mean. Its really sad to see whats going on, no matter who´s right. On the other hand its good people take soldat so seriously, You obviously must love this game, I know I do. Althought the argument is more about servers than soldat.
Whoever is going to develop it, know that we love ya! But even if the development should stop, I think soldat would not die. Because its the best game ever.
I dont want to sound ignorant, because I have not yet payd for soldat (im planning to, have to get a credit card or find someone with one), but seems to me that until MM is getting payd for soldat (even though not much, i understand) he should take this kind of things more seriously..

I really hope this thing has a happy ending. And thanks to all who have contributed to this amazing game!
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: smiluu on July 02, 2009, 01:24:38 pm
Never liked Enesce from the very beginning. Arduous, cocky and short-tempered - thats what he is.
Tiny balls, big authority. "Michal gave his child to a devil."
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on July 02, 2009, 01:26:52 pm
Anyway, I'm afraid of troyans and keyloggers - due to it I'm unistalling soldat.
Want a batter idea? Install an antivirus and firewall.

On topic - I too have to say that I'm disappointed by MM's reply and aggree that soldat and its community needs someone else to watch over it, someone who cares.
I don't know whether this whole story is true or not. But if we can't trust NSC, perhaps we can trust the whole development team? That is if "development team" won't consist of just NSC alone.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: iDante on July 02, 2009, 01:33:09 pm
Holy cow you people are talking like EnEsCe is our big father who watches over us and keeps us safe. He just develops the game and he's done a good job at that.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: The Geologist on July 02, 2009, 01:45:48 pm
Never liked Enesce from the very beginning. Arduous, cocky and short-tempered - thats what he is.
Tiny balls, big authority. "Michal gave his child to a devil."

Didn't I say stupid crap like needless flaming would not be tolerated in this topic? 

Discuss, and save the trash talk for somewhere else.  User warned.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: excruciator on July 02, 2009, 01:50:53 pm
Alright can somebody summarize what Enesce had done?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: smiluu on July 02, 2009, 02:38:39 pm
Alright can somebody summarize what Enesce had done?
Shortly said he deceived his server-clients.
And threatened people who were about to reveal this.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 02, 2009, 03:16:14 pm
I was in a NSC server just a few minutes ago with ping that ranged from as low as 133 to around 210. Most of the time it was around 183. That is highly inaccurate consider I have dial-up and my ping should be in the mid 200s. Has he really fixed it?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: -Major- on July 02, 2009, 03:22:51 pm
MM is too careless -.-, I knew he would just go with a simple explination because he care more about his other games than soldat. it's not like I care alot about things I've done before.

no normal person would rage delete a topic completely if he knew there was something else causing it, and knowing he's not making a fraud. normal people reacts by researching and coming up with logical explinations instead of raging and threaten people.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Blue-ninja on July 02, 2009, 03:28:13 pm
@ Shinobi: it's pretty likely that he's fixed it, since most of the servers he rents are based in Texas.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Grimbad on July 02, 2009, 04:02:15 pm
I was in a NSC server just a few minutes ago with ping that ranged from as low as 133 to around 210. Most of the time it was around 183. That is highly inaccurate consider I have dial-up and my ping should be in the mid 200s. Has he really fixed it?

In EC TW the pings today showed the all-time low for me. 16-33 most of the time, with spikes into 150-ish.

I have no idea what that would mean.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on July 02, 2009, 04:26:40 pm
I was in a NSC server just a few minutes ago with ping that ranged from as low as 133 to around 210. Most of the time it was around 183. That is highly inaccurate consider I have dial-up and my ping should be in the mid 200s. Has he really fixed it?

The fix that EnEsCe applied doesn't take effect until a customer restarts his or her server, so it's possible that you were still playing on an affected server.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Furai on July 02, 2009, 04:44:32 pm
Want a batter idea? Install an antivirus and firewall.

I've already got both. What I meant is that if EnEsCe can't be trusted it means that his soldat releases can't be too. They can be some sort of viruses.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dro on July 02, 2009, 05:06:16 pm
There's a big difference between editing ping output and making a full game a virus! It's highly improbably that Soldat or Dedicated server would contain any malware programs or parts of them. I can't believe that someone in EnEsCe's possition would do anything like that. When he told mafioza that Soldat 1.5 has DDos client in it, EnEsCe was probably only threatning him and it means that he lied, again.

They who have been using NSC's servers and paying for them are and also should be angry because it seems that he has fooled them. If the ping fraud was the only thing that happened, I can't be really angry because this issue has nothing to do with my soldat playing. I can only express my disapointment to NSC and hope that this issue will be solved in the best possible way for everybody, including him. After all he's still a human and we should treat him like one. I bet he's not feeling very well either at the moment...

What we need now is good explanation from NSC and perhaps some actions according to what have happened, then everything goes back to normal again.

I hope...
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: pavliko on July 02, 2009, 05:31:50 pm
ok enesce can be dealt with.
but MM's post really made me sad..
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MadDog on July 02, 2009, 05:35:05 pm
Okay...

I don't fully understand all the "ping" talk. I love soldat, but I'm not the kind who plays online...

So, someone like me, who doesn't understand the first thing about this, in Enesce's shoes when users start asking about the ping inconsistency:

"Oh. What are they talking about? Well let me go see.... Ah! it's a bug from over 3 years ago! Well, let me go find those users and explain to them that it's an old bug."

Rather than go insane with rage, IF he's telling the truth, why not do that? It does not seem logical. He executed actions that indicate a strong desire to erase evidence. He even deleted the evidence from the admin trash bin. If he wanted to stop people from attacking him, deleting the posts/threads would make sense. Then erasing them from the trash does not.

LASTLY, and heh heh, this is a real kicker. If-

IF Enesce realized that it was a bug from over 3 years ago... why not tell every other admin about it.... including MM. Now, THAT would be my #1 move, right there. WHY keep it a secret? Something to hide?

He knew people were getting suspicious. Why not clarify it with his fellow peers, instead of this deperate attempt to hide. It's like Nixon with the tapes. It's exactly like Nixon. That's his new name in my book, he's earned it.

Nixon did some great things for this country, but at the end of the day, he lied to the American people, was a fraud, swindler, and cheat. Nixon was no charismatic Kennedy, or Reagan. He was cold, mean, insulting, abusive. I can't believe the similarities between him and Enesce.

This is our Nixon, and our watergate.

Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: DorkeyDear on July 02, 2009, 05:37:14 pm
What we need now is good explanation from NSC and perhaps some actions according to what have happened, then everything goes back to normal again.
His explanation: http://enesce.com/272/soldat/statement-regarding-ping/

I just want this all to cool off, and to continue with our little Soldat lives. The sooner that happens, the sooner everybody can be happy again.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: -Major- on July 02, 2009, 05:55:33 pm
What we need now is good explanation from NSC and perhaps some actions according to what have happened, then everything goes back to normal again.
His explanation: http://enesce.com/272/soldat/statement-regarding-ping/

I just want this all to cool off, and to continue with our little Soldat lives. The sooner that happens, the sooner everybody can be happy again.

nah, more flame, so that MM really punishes enesce.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Farah on July 02, 2009, 06:01:50 pm
Alright can somebody summarize what Enesce had done?

http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=14712.0
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: The Geologist on July 02, 2009, 06:03:55 pm
"More flame" won't lead to punishment.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on July 02, 2009, 06:12:23 pm
I just want this all to cool off, and to continue with our little Soldat lives. The sooner that happens, the sooner everybody can be happy again.
That means just closing your eyes on the case.
Some questions are still unanswered and not everyone believes that ping issue was an accident.
Neither NSC's explanation, nor MM's.. lack of explanation are gonna stop the flame completely (unless there is a more convincing explanation for NSC's actions), so there will always be people who will hold the grudge against him.

But what has to be said has already been said, and we probably won't know anything new. I guess it'll just stop at that.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Felix_k2 on July 02, 2009, 06:22:48 pm
Enesce or however he decides to character his alias has always been shifty since his days as one of the worst hackers in australia, people don't change, and this entire auspicious event only pushes this point with a clarity of enormous magnitude.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Ryukk on July 02, 2009, 06:31:14 pm
If I recall correctly, when the issue came up about allowing EnEsCe (the notorious soldat hacker) to join the dev team, well, I said it was a real bad idea. Too bad no one listens to me. I believe this was just the beginning, his true intent was to steal soldat from MM as I see it.

Also, if he was the only one who took time deving soldat, well now we know why, I personally wouldnt care if another version of soldat ever came out, hell id be happy if it was still 1.2
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Jakious on July 02, 2009, 07:37:13 pm
So, what do I do about the hundreds of rootkits on my computer?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: SpiltCoffee on July 02, 2009, 08:14:06 pm
Want a batter idea? Install an antivirus and firewall.

I've already got both. What I meant is that if EnEsCe can't be trusted it means that his soldat releases can't be too. They can be some sort of viruses.
Don't be stupid. It was only one line of code in the development version of the server. It can't destroy your bloody computer.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on July 02, 2009, 09:24:28 pm
I've never rented a server before.
But if the process involves giving out credit card info, I'd be keeping an eye on my bill.

I don't know NSC, but Soldat is probably his life.
And he is one unstable kitten.

Just a theory.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: p0ppin on July 02, 2009, 09:31:17 pm
Quote
I don't know NSC, but Soldat is probably his life.
And he is one unstable kitten.

The damage has been done, no need to kick him when he's down Fallen.  Not defending what he did or anything, but those kinds of comments are completely unnecessary :-\.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on July 02, 2009, 09:37:29 pm
That wasn't my purpose.
Sure I don't like him, I never have, and I'll admit it's fun to flame him.

But if credit card numbers are involved, then I'd be cutting mine in half.

Cause his clearly the smartest and slyest person that's ever been involved with Soldat.

Maybe even more then MM.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: excruciator on July 02, 2009, 11:38:45 pm
Alright can somebody summarize what Enesce had done?

http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=14712.0

Thanks.

Ehm..that is quite low,(if it was true).

How much money can you make off server hosting anyways? I just fail to see the potential profit and incentive
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: croat1gamer on July 03, 2009, 12:09:33 am
To host 1 server (NOT game server, but a data server) hosts 99$ per month, and eC has 2 servers.
That is 198$ per month.
Just the US servers, add the euro servers also.

1 slot costs 2$ or 1.60$, also eC would need to host more than ~16 servers to actually get some money just from the american servers.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Rangedmage14 on July 03, 2009, 12:12:13 am
He knew people were getting suspicious. Why not clarify it with his fellow peers, instead of this deperate attempt to hide. It's like Nixon with the tapes. It's exactly like Nixon. That's his new name in my book, he's earned it.

Nixon did some great things for this country, but at the end of the day, he lied to the American people, was a fraud, swindler, and cheat. Nixon was no charismatic Kennedy, or Reagan. He was cold, mean, insulting, abusive. I can't believe the similarities between him and Enesce.

This is our Nixon, and our watergate.


Seriously, are you a history teacher?

and back to topic, I'm pretty sure he's not gunna use your credit card number fallen. if he wanted to go to jail, i think he'd go for something smarter. Thats the stupidest thing ive ever read..

Sure eC might've lied and scammed us, using an advantage that could have people advertise thier internation pings for him. even though he never advertised: LOWEST INTERNATIONAL PINGS or anything, people who played his servers did. I always heard u13 < eC. But eC didnt steal anyones credit card numbers, install viruses (we have a beta team, use your brain, the viruses would be noticed if all the beta team received a virus after a beta was released....) or install rootkits or DDoS or whatever they were so everyone needs to stop being so skeptical. Deving will be fine, chillll. I do want Ramirez or Shoozza developing too.

I believe in eC, i don't think he'll pull any stunts anymore since the spotlight is aimed directly at him. Everyone is watching his movements, he recieved a slap on a wrist. that should be good enough, MM excused this, but he won't forget.

As for the descisions, the descision has been made. MM doesn't care about Soldat or any scams at all, he just cares about new versions of soldat... I'd say have FLAB in charge of Soldat unless MM starts caring about us again.


$10 bucks wasted on green jets......
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: iDante on July 03, 2009, 01:32:32 am
(we have a beta team, use your brain, the viruses would be noticed if all the beta team received a virus after a beta was released....)
I don't think the beta team actually does anything anymore. But that doesn't matter, because I think that NSC actually does care about soldat. He made a stupid err in how he handled this issue which he admits, that's it. He's not going to blow off the years he's spent on this game by putting viruses and whatnots on our computers.

Though xurich brought up a good point a while ago in that it's questionable whether he should be using dev servers for his rentals.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: croat1gamer on July 03, 2009, 03:42:26 am
Well, if he is going to rent dev servers, he should point it out OR give the choice to the customers to choose which type of server they want.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: smiluu on July 03, 2009, 03:53:30 am
Maybe I'll side with Enesce just a bit..
People claims that he made a crime, this makes me wonder..
Which is worse:

Selling servers with fallacious information.
or.. Downloading/Sharing illegally movies and games?

In both cases one side benefits more than another side should.
Only this time YOU were scammed.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: DragonSlayer on July 03, 2009, 04:21:07 am
Way to post something completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MetsuriTossavainen on July 03, 2009, 05:12:59 am
It is not fair to U13 and Selfkill that NSC uses more advanced technology in his servers which isn't yet available for public use.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Demonic on July 03, 2009, 05:13:51 am
One must wonder how many games are out there in which the dedicated fanbase clashes with the developers.

The fact that the main coders aren't actively involved in the main community, only through a server rental service probably predestined an affair of this sort. The only question was when it would happen.

This is a kids community, and the main whiz behind the scenes is a kid. He may code like no other son of a bitch wide on the land, but his handling of 'public relations' shows that it's just a fellow with way too much power in his hands to handle. That, and there's money in server renting.

MM's point, that in the end it's the game which matters may be true - but there is a demographic shift in soldat. The old dedicated people who run the community are growing more and more disinterested, and are more or less without backup: and you may have a good game, but without any bottom-to-top organised things behind it, it'll only grow to be forgotten.

Especially if the terms 'rip off' or 'power abuse' come into play.

gg.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Vv00t-SN on July 03, 2009, 07:29:37 am


 the main whiz behind the scenes is a kid. He may code like no other son of a b***h wide on the land, but his handling of 'public relations' shows that it's just a fellow with way too much power in his hands to handle. That, and there's money in server renting.

..Which is exactly whe he must be axxed, and fast.
After having been shown the true scale of disdain the community obviously has for him (as evidenced by the fact that people didnt need a whole lot of convincing to accept his guilt), I expect he will try to pull some more stunts if left in place, and they wont be as harmless as faking a few numbers.

Now, granted, that may just be speculation, but is it really something any of us want to risk?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Zischer on July 03, 2009, 07:32:34 am

This is our Nixon, and our watergate.


<3 I kinda love your posts xD

---

well, I think as far as this discussion does not stop, there is perhaps a chance that something may change.
YES WE CAN!
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MShinoda on July 03, 2009, 12:10:40 pm
I hope you realize that if Enesce is kicked from his position he could just hack the hell out of Soldat, not saying that he would do this for sure.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 03, 2009, 12:31:30 pm
I hope you realize that if Enesce is kicked from his position he could just hack the hell out of Soldat, not saying that he would do this for sure.

He won't be. And if he was [which he won't] I highly doubt he'd do that.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: -Major- on July 03, 2009, 01:43:48 pm
I hope you realize that if Enesce is kicked from his position he could just hack the hell out of Soldat, not saying that he would do this for sure.
He won't be. And if he was [which he won't] I highly doubt he'd do that.
lol, enesce wants to kill soldat, just look at 1.5, it's so poorly made, and he worked on it for months, and still so bad.
remove his devteam status, he's also not capable of this position, since his ego is too big. no-community listener, and he doesn't even listen to the Beta team.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: iDante on July 03, 2009, 01:48:59 pm
lol, enesce wants to kill soldat, just look at 1.5, it's so poorly made, and he worked on it for months, and still so bad.
remove his devteam status, he's also not capable of this position, since his ego is too big. no-community listener, and he doesn't even listen to the Beta team.
I have a recent history lesson for you. 1.5 was a PUBLIC BETA! I know it's hard to comprehend but he actually let us (the people!) test out soldat for several months. And do you know what happened (and why there probably won't be another public beta)? Well nobody really tested it! He fixed the bugs that were reported, but because we (the beta team) didn't actually take his beta seriously he didn't find a lot of them.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Zischer on July 03, 2009, 01:50:19 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/dab79/permabanned.gif)

it fits.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: -Major- on July 03, 2009, 01:53:49 pm
lol, enesce wants to kill soldat, just look at 1.5, it's so poorly made, and he worked on it for months, and still so bad.
remove his devteam status, he's also not capable of this position, since his ego is too big. no-community listener, and he doesn't even listen to the Beta team.
I have a recent history lesson for you. 1.5 was a PUBLIC BETA! I know it's hard to comprehend but he actually let us (the people!) test out soldat for several months. And do you know what happened (and why there probably won't be another public beta)? Well nobody really tested it! He fixed the bugs that were reported, but because we (the beta team) didn't actually take his beta seriously he didn't find a lot of them.
he hosted NO dm server, his idea of trying to make a public beta failed, because he didn't make it public enough.

the DM bug is so obvious it's sad. he does not fit as a developer.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on July 03, 2009, 02:07:26 pm
I have a recent history lesson for you. 1.5 was a PUBLIC BETA! I know it's hard to comprehend but he actually let us (the people!) test out soldat for several months. And do you know what happened (and why there probably won't be another public beta)? Well nobody really tested it! He fixed the bugs that were reported, but because we (the beta team) didn't actually take his beta seriously he didn't find a lot of them.

Hopefully there won't be more public betas.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 03, 2009, 02:19:01 pm
Or if he does a public beta, release a server for it as well (PUBLICLY) so people can host it, and gathers can host it, ect... The more servers that get hosted around the world for it, the more a beta would get played. Everyone was at fault for it, not just us, not just him.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Suowarrior on July 03, 2009, 04:40:26 pm
Or if he does a public beta, release a server for it as well (PUBLICLY) so people can host it, and gathers can host it, ect... The more servers that get hosted around the world for it, the more a beta would get played. Everyone was at fault for it, not just us, not just him.

Yah there's actually very good point. I remember enesce saying that keep on playing the old 1.4.2 while the public betas were released, so main community stayed with it and 1.5 got bad tested.

There is no point staying with official version except the leagues. For example gathers should use the new public betas.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: mar77a on July 03, 2009, 05:10:52 pm
The truth is, 1.x releases are usually the "open betas", with 1.x.x being the definite release with all the bug fixes.. it how it has always been. I don't really see a point in calling it "open beta" or w/e, just release it and do the quick patch with the bugs fixed (tho this requires an active beta team so that important bugs dont make it to the public release, making it unplayable).

Altho this is kinda off-topic ;, ;
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on July 03, 2009, 07:16:25 pm
This needs to be solved in the next couple of days.

This would never of happened if he wasn't so arrogant.
One person can't develop a game.
When we were waiting for 2.5(or whatever, totally don't know what number we're up to) many people tried to suggest a bigger dev team. I don't know if it was MM's or NSC's decision, but that was the main problem.

I don't really want him back, but something has to happen, whether he comes back just as a helping hand, or leaves forever. I know he shouldn't be running it, he shouldn't be given any powers, either develop or forum.

He shouldn't be aloud to rent out servers. I don't think anyone wants them anymore anyway.

If he comes back, he should be on thin ice, and not be aloud to dictate the whole forum, just because his working on Soldat.

If he comes back, those who don't trust him, should continue not trusting him, and those who support him should continue doing so.

I don't think he should come back, he'll stir up way to much sh!t, and I don't think MM should have a decision about a single thing anymore. Great things could have happened if he didn't abandon Soldat completely, for a game that's going to get about 3 hours gameplay.

Popularity shows there should be a whole new team working on Soldat. If it were up to me, I'd want 20 people working on Soldat. Even if they aren't very good.

One last thing, you can't blame the beta team for anything. Some of those bugs were ridiculous.
There's no possible way not one person saw the deathmatch bug, and didn't report it. I'd like to blame that on bad programming. And you'd can't have a beta running for a year, and expect people to switch over versions. Two hours with about ten people, and surely you can find every single bug.
Fix them, another two hours, for any new bugs. The whole process shouldn't last longer than a week.

20 minutes ago, I didn't mind anymore if NSC continued, but now I remember how much he f#$ked up, I'm back to my old self, wanting him to go. Even if you take away the past week, his still done quite a poor job.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Furai on July 03, 2009, 07:24:50 pm
I was participating in public beta and I haven't found that dm bug simply because there was no dm, tm, rm server running. As for me, I think NSC should still develop soldat but it's not one man work. Dev-team should grow bigger. I really dunno who is capable to develop soldat around here, maybe Ramirez, Shoozza, Toumaz...I'm really confused since I don't know you at all.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: STM1993 on July 03, 2009, 08:02:40 pm
Aye, give NSC some credit for being the sole developer of Soldat for the first time and doing it for free.

Secondly, previous versions (1.2.0 to 1.4.2) of Soldat never really had major additions until 1.5.0. They're all pretty much the same except for weapons balance (both ini and the code) and bug fixes. 1.5.0, on the other hand, was featured with a lot of modifications (75% bullet push, actionsnap, headshot, lobby chat), it'd definitely take quite some time to code it.

Then in the public betas (this is the first time that has happened) no one really participated, though yes, I agree there should be more servers and different game modes rather than just CTF. We all asked for the lobby chat, but turns out the idea didn't work anyway, so it's wasted effort for that one.

Now that MM has long lost interest in Soldat and moved on to Link-Dead, the development of Soldat lies in our hands and we're short of strong manpower. 1.5.0 shows that a one man army wouldn't do, so it'd be better if we had more people in the dev team.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: excruciator on July 03, 2009, 08:17:44 pm
I guess the developer should be not be host also.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on July 03, 2009, 08:43:37 pm
I don't think that it's a problem for EnEsCe to rent out servers, but he definitely should be using the same server version to which everybody else has access instead of the developmental version, and he shouldn't give his servers priority in things such as the readme.txt.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: NiveusLuxLucis on July 03, 2009, 11:30:36 pm
Quote
Sure eC might've lied and scammed us, using an advantage that could have people advertise thier internation pings for him. even though he never advertised: LOWEST INTERNATIONAL PINGS or anything

Quote from: enesce's website: Buy a server, features list.
• Low pings all over the world
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: PQ on July 04, 2009, 01:28:30 am
I think that EnEsCe should be able to use the dev version, cause he has to test it. Sponsored servers only might be the best way, but he has to be able to develop soldat without too much interruptions/barriers.

Who am I to complain about this btw (I never hired a server from nsc and I just have access to a sponsored server he gives excellent service to.. dev versions and normal versions should be about the same. A new version should come out when something important is fixed.

(yes this was a major difference and was really weird in my opinion)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Iq Unlimited on July 04, 2009, 01:52:10 am
Quote
Sure eC might've lied and scammed us, using an advantage that could have people advertise thier internation pings for him. even though he never advertised: LOWEST INTERNATIONAL PINGS or anything

Quote from: enesce's website: Buy a server, features list.
• Low pings all over the world

Just pointing this out because it's bothering me. Low does not equal lowest.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Devastated Mind on July 04, 2009, 03:57:12 am
lol, enesce wants to kill soldat, just look at 1.5, it's so poorly made, and he worked on it for months, and still so bad.
remove his devteam status, he's also not capable of this position, since his ego is too big. no-community listener, and he doesn't even listen to the Beta team.

I would like to point out that he _did_not_ fix all bugs that were reported. For example the bug with action snap where you see a wrong crop of the screen.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Avarax on July 04, 2009, 04:52:50 am
Sponsored servers only might be the best way.

Exactly. If customer servers are using the dev version aswell, this kind of creates a monopole and an advantage which is not what I would call politically correct.

I'd like to remind the community that EnEsCe has done quite a bit for Soldat (not only since he has been developing 1.5) and that, despite that he has proven to be an asshole sometimes, he deserves some respect. The effort is immense, the pressure from community side is huge, but there are only few people that actually constructively aid the developers. Add reallife and not much of a payment to this and frustration is guaranteed.

Please notice that I am biased due having received sponsored servers from [eC] for quite a while now.


EDIT: Oh and while this conversation is happily continueing the bashing, EnEsCe has fixed a few severe bugs in the next soldatserver version that the Hexer community has reported to him. That asshole.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Farah on July 04, 2009, 05:36:22 am
and i'm biased cuz i was banned and accused by him of stalking his blog looking for the "right time" to employ my team of hackers to create a fake binary that would implicate him of fraudulent actions.

what an asshole.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Laser Guy on July 04, 2009, 05:42:46 am
I'm fine with EnEsCe staying as the developer, but if he get's a second chance I don't see why Shoozza shouldn't either (SoldatPorted).
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: PQ on July 04, 2009, 07:48:10 am
I'm fine with EnEsCe staying as the developer, but if he get's a second chance I don't see why Shoozza shouldn't either (SoldatPorted).
Quite weird reasoning, why don't we make it open source then?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: STM1993 on July 04, 2009, 08:11:40 am
Quite weird reasoning, why don't we make it open source then?
If any game becomes open-source, you can quite safely say that the game-maker has given up on the game, and it suffers these consequences:

1) Now that they have access to the source code, people can hack the game, and with greater ease.

2) People can take the code of the game, tweak it, and release it as a completely new game, when it's simply a modded Soldat. Worse if those people attempt to make money from this.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: SpiltCoffee on July 04, 2009, 08:27:56 am
1) Now that they have access to the source code, people can hack the game, and with greater ease.
But then they might have a reason to highlight those bugs to the person overseeing the open source game, because the bug could be then quite easily fixed.

Quote
2) People can take the code of the game, tweak it, and release it as a completely new game, when it's simply a modded Soldat. Worse if those people attempt to make money from this.
Licensing would protect from that.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Demonic on July 04, 2009, 08:29:16 am
If it's licensed as a specific type under Creative Commons, they can't make money from it. However, this is a futile thought, since MM has expressed in the past that Soldat will stay as-is.

The same goes for people going 'I'm fine/not fine with...Enesce' because the decision has been made, he's going to stay, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

(then again, an established community behind a game going open-source could very well lead to good, because there aren't that many people who can code very well, and it would just mean that the current devs would be replaced by people from the regulars. The issue of money is what makes it weird)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shard on July 04, 2009, 09:07:53 am
Soldat is on the verge on something, something big, and no one is going to see it coming till its too late. I can't believe EnEsCe is staying...I used to think he was really great, a massive help in developing soldat, but know? I have heard some stuff I shall express when I have confirmation.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ds dude on July 04, 2009, 10:06:02 am
Soldat is on the verge on something, something big, and no one is going to see it coming till its too late. I can't believe EnEsCe is staying...I used to think he was really great, a massive help in developing soldat, but know? I have heard some stuff I shall express when I have confirmation.
On the verge of something big? Uh.. no.

This is stupid, accusing... misleading... everything.

EnEsCe is fine. Farah had it coming anyway.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Laser Guy on July 04, 2009, 10:13:40 am
I'm fine with EnEsCe staying as the developer, but if he gets a second chance I don't see why Shoozza shouldn't either (SoldatPorted).
Quite weird reasoning, why don't we make it open source then?
Well, Shoozza isn't doing SoldatPorted. Why? Because EnEsCe doesn't want to give the source. Why? Because Shoozza supposedly black mailed him. Now we see EnEsCe doing his thing. Then, it isn't that bad, but shit happened, people got banned, and the code was left in the servers... Anyway, I guess Shoozza doesn't give a shit anymore so it doesn't matter. :-\
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Illuminatus on July 04, 2009, 01:10:15 pm
Read that (http://enesce.com/272/soldat/statement-regarding-ping/#comment-194).
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Laser Guy on July 04, 2009, 01:15:33 pm
Already been posted here...
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on July 04, 2009, 01:29:57 pm
He's referring to the responses of the post.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Laser Guy on July 04, 2009, 01:41:36 pm
I know, but anyone interested should know about this already by now.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 04, 2009, 04:33:01 pm
Quote
Shoozza: Why you deleted the threads and banned people continuesely which looked like censorship?
EnEsCe: I was acting in blind rage, and yes I know it was wrong. I would never have done it normally, I can’t remember what exactly was going through my mind at the time. I most likely thought it would stop people harassing me on IRC; and people I trusted echoing confidential conversations etc, I also felt the other admins were all against me already. I acknowledge that it was stupid and I abused my admin privileges by doing so. Fair enough. I would have liked to read it all eventually. I apologize to the other forum admins for the trouble I caused, they did the right thing.

Why were you in a blind rage when no one, besides one guy, if I recall correctly, who was out of line, was provoking you, but rather were asking legitimate questions? Furthermore, people harassing you on IRC is easily fixed by the ignore function. I honestly can't see why you would think the admins were out to get you, as well.

Has this question gotten answered yet? If it has, I missed it. ;(
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Gortaak on July 04, 2009, 04:34:59 pm
The thing that really bugs me about you, "Give him a second chance" guys, is this WAS his second chance. Which he screwed up.

As for that apology, its bs all the way. If it was something as simple as that, why would he RAGE so bad? It makes no sense. If he was innocent from the beginning, he wouldnt have rage deleted topics, rage banned, rage threatened people. People that are innocent instead come up with the proof proving it, instead of raging and trying to make the situation go away. Why would he claim OMG CONSPIRACY H4XERZ!!!111!! And then make up MULTIPLE contradicting explanations, its like throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.

As for the people that say putting another member on the dev team would be a bad idea, because of this shit storm, this again proves that enesce shouldnt dev, because if he was innocent from the start, he shouldnt have any bad feelings, and would welcome the help.  If its that difficult to manage deving a game by yourself, wouldnt it be logical to want some help, to make the load on each person smaller?  Its not like enesce is the only coder on the PLANET. Just because he has been working with the code for a while, doesnt mean that someone else couldnt pick up on it in a few days/weeks.

As for soldat becoming open source, I belive it would be a great idea. And just because a game goes open souce, does NOT mean the creator abandoned it.  Apparently none of you people have seen OS communities for games. Sure it would probably be messy at first, but then there would be an "Official" version that would become the standard, much like it is now. It might have hackers, but it would be delt with quite quickly, since its open source, changes could be made faster since odds are there would be more than one dev. Bugs would be solved quicker.

As for him using dev versions of the servers for sale, he shouldnt be allowed to do that. If he wants to test the new servers, set up a pub running it. Or, pass out the dev servers to other hosters as well, so they can run it if they really want to.  It is an unfair advantage that he should not have.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: lewwy on July 05, 2009, 04:47:09 am
I made an account so I could make this post.

Basically I am struck in awe at the past 14 pages of posting by a bunch of people complaining about the length of bullet trails in the game.  I'm not sure where the problem lies exactly, but for crying out loud people give the guy a break.

I went to school with EnEsCe a few years ago now, and he's a great guy.  Does he always maintain a level head?  No.  Nobody here wants to hear that, but I think you all need to know that he is a HUMAN BEING with EMOTIONS.  Which one of you have never had a bad day?  Does anyone here have a direct tap on what was happening in EnEsCe's life the day this all went down?  The dudes trying to dev Soldat and make it better for each and every one of you, accidentally leaves some debug code in, and gets roasted for it.

How many of you on this forum have written a line of code that compiles?  How many of you have stayed around for the whole development cycle and released patches when needed?  And out of the remaining few, who of YOU haven't made a coding mistake?  Some bad or typo'd code can make your PC crash or worse, I think you all should be thankful that it was manifested in bullet trails being too long.

Another thing.  14 pages?  On bullet trails?  An entire community uprising? On bullet trails?  I've seen less hell come from people having affairs!  I'm of the opinion that everyone who has continously complained about OMG ITS A CONSPIRACY to grow up and move out of their mothers basement.  I don't know about EnEsCe, but I know that I personally have much more important things to do in life than perportrate a conspiracy in a computer game.

It doesn't matter WHO has the source code, whats IN the source code, or what the source code compiles to or if it gives ANYONE an advantage.  If MM cares who has the source code, and if they have acquired it illegally, then he will take the relevant action.  Its not up to anyone here to challenge MM to open source the game.  Its his game and he'll do whatever the hell he wants with it.

You have a choice, either suck it up with whats happened, or throw it in and dont play Solday anymore.  If you want to stand on your soap box and complain about bullet trails, then I'm pretty sure the Soldat community doesn't want you around anyway.

And for the inevitable post pointing out my post count, you are exactly the people I am talking about.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Devastated Mind on July 05, 2009, 05:17:43 am
Two annotations:

- It's not about bullet trails. I suppose you should have read EVERYTHING rather than just what you wanted to know.
- People didn't see a conspiracy. They wanted to know how it was possible for people from Europe to have such great pings on North American servers. Out of sheer curiosity. At least until the point where NSC went monkey balls.

Keep to the facts.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: croat1gamer on July 05, 2009, 05:30:41 am
A minor note: the code stayed accidentaly, but it was there to prevent "laser bullets" in the versions before.
The real problem was that eC deleted the topics from the deleted topic bin, so it looked like he is hiding something, and then:
"OMG OMG OMG CONSPIRATION THEORY!!!!1"
And then moments later:
"GIEF DEV TO SHOOZZA, HE WONT DO DAT"
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: NiveusLuxLucis on July 05, 2009, 05:33:26 am
Well, I'd accuse you of being enesce, but I think enesce can at least count, or use his eyes.

First point: 9 pages. Not 14.

Second point: You clearly haven't even read the 9 pages, as if you had it would be quite clear to you that people are annoy enesce was using a dev server (abusing his position) that just happen to have code that reduced ping on his servers. The intention of the code is irrelevant; it was in his servers.

Third point: Enesce has been untrustworthy in the past, and has proven repeatedly that he has a very poor attitude towards other people online. I couldn't give a shit about how he acts in real life, because that's not how I know him.

Finally: "accidentally leaves some debug code in, and gets roasted for it."
He actually was questioned about it first, at which point he had a rage, said that people were flat out lying, ignored all posts on the issue, deleted the thread from the forums and banned people several times. It was probably about then people started thinking there was something wrong.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on July 05, 2009, 06:03:51 am
I went to school with EnEsCe a few years ago now, and he's a great guy.  Does he always maintain a level head?  No.  Nobody here wants to hear that, but I think you all need to know that he is a HUMAN BEING with EMOTIONS.  Which one of you have never had a bad day?  Does anyone here have a direct tap on what was happening in EnEsCe's life the day this all went down?  The dudes trying to dev Soldat and make it better for each and every one of you, accidentally leaves some debug code in, and gets roasted for it.

he just doesn't fit his position, no matter what causes it. Excuses are useless, he just isn't able to handle such responsibility and thats what counts. If he resigned, the case would be over and he wouldn't get 'roasted'. But he holds his dev position like grim death despite of being completely unwanted. This obviously causes conflicts.


Another thing.  14 pages?  On bullet trails?  An entire community uprising? On bullet trails?  I've seen less hell come from people having affairs!  I'm of the opinion that everyone who has continously complained about OMG ITS A CONSPIRACY to grow up and move out of their mothers basement.  I don't know about EnEsCe, but I know that I personally have much more important things to do in life than perportrate a conspiracy in a computer game.

1. Like it was mentioned already, you completely missed the point of this entire discussion...
2. It was Enesce that made some hilarious conspiracy theory about group of hackers falsifying evidences to make him look bad.

Its his game and he'll do whatever the hell he wants with it.

We all put some effort into the game and we have some expactations. If we don't like something, we point it out. I haven't seen anyone commanding MM to do anything. We are just making opinions on whats happening and how could it be dealt with. And most of the people are dissapointed in complete ignorance from MM's side...
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: croat1gamer on July 05, 2009, 07:06:32 am
I mentioned it a few posts before the dev version server stuff.

Well, i think that eC should think about getting someone to do a PR job


Also, lets get all the gamedev teams to resign their jobs as they had bugs in their games.
That code in the server was a bug.

Iincluding in that, i dont think eC is a human, i think he is a space lizard who will enslave the whole human population on Earth.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on July 05, 2009, 01:18:11 pm
Not that I support NSC, but to those of you saying he sucks as a coder, please dont forget that
he made exploding heads, action snap, lobby chat, fixed such annoying bugs as weapon drop, added cap count and other. Even though not all features turned out great, new version of Soldat turned out a bit better.




though again.. it's not just about coding
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Devastated Mind on July 05, 2009, 02:32:15 pm
Yeah, sure. And also remember that half the features he made dont work, quite some of them for everyone (easily detectable). TS integration, action snap with higher resolutions, ingame clock.

I cannot recall MM to ever have added features that didnt work. Next versions should be plain bug fixing, patches, rather than updates.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Snipufin on July 05, 2009, 03:03:34 pm
Not to forget teammate binking.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on July 05, 2009, 03:59:01 pm
It does work as it is supposed to. Get over it already loled
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on July 05, 2009, 04:07:47 pm
Well, i think that eC should think about getting someone to do a PR job

what is this bullshit with "bad PR"

what he did is completely unacceptable, public relations have nothing to do with it. Maybe you meant MM...
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 05, 2009, 04:23:52 pm
Public relations are the things such as deleting the original thread and banning users unjustly... So, yeah, I think PR has something to do with it.

Quote
Shoozza: Why you deleted the threads and banned people continuesely which looked like censorship?
EnEsCe: I was acting in blind rage, and yes I know it was wrong. I would never have done it normally, I can’t remember what exactly was going through my mind at the time. I most likely thought it would stop people harassing me on IRC; and people I trusted echoing confidential conversations etc, I also felt the other admins were all against me already. I acknowledge that it was stupid and I abused my admin privileges by doing so. Fair enough. I would have liked to read it all eventually. I apologize to the other forum admins for the trouble I caused, they did the right thing.

Why were you in a blind rage when no one, besides one guy, if I recall correctly, who was out of line, was provoking you, but rather were asking legitimate questions? Furthermore, people harassing you on IRC is easily fixed by the ignore function. I honestly can't see why you would think the admins were out to get you, as well.

Has this question gotten answered yet? If it has, I missed it. ;(

I still don't think I've received a decent answer to this question. Saying eC might have "had a bad day" or was just "in a bad mood" or something is complete and utter bullshit. Using an excuse like that is opening the door for anyone to use it in the future for anything they do, and if we accept an idiotic excuse like that from eC, we'll also have to accept it from people in the future. That's a horrible precedent to set, especially considering it is a really stupid excuse for his completely unnecessary "blind rage."
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on July 05, 2009, 04:43:46 pm
Public relations are the things such as deleting the original thread and banning users unjustly... So, yeah, I think PR has something to do with it.

what he did was against the rules and administrative common sense. Screw the public relations, he just can;t do such things, it's not his toy for gods sake
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: croat1gamer on July 05, 2009, 05:54:54 pm
If he isnt a toy, then he might be a space lizard who will enslave the whole human population on Earth.

For those who dont understand sarcasm:
Enesce is a human person.
Shit happens.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on July 05, 2009, 06:14:40 pm
If he isnt a toy, then he might be a space lizard who will enslave the whole human population on Earth.

For those who dont understand sarcasm:
Enesce is a human person.
s**t happens.

he just doesn't seem to fit his position, it's not like he screwed something up, he just is like this.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Rangedmage14 on July 05, 2009, 09:02:44 pm
I think you all need to know that he is a HUMAN BEING with EMOTIONS.  Which one of you have never had a bad day?  Does anyone here have a direct tap on what was happening in EnEsCe's life the day this all went down?
Lewwy, don't be so ignorant, atleast read the first post, and count the number of pages in this thread (its about 6 inches down from the top of your monitor), and no one here posted 1 thing about a conspiracy. actually, i think you came in here acting like it was a consipiracy. You showed me that you think we joined together in a big lie to kick eC out of his spot as dev or server rental. you act as if you know what went down at his moms basement/his house (idk if you told us we live in our moms basement or if its him who lives with his mom) when this happened. You make it sound like he burst into tears and deleted the whole thing to make himself feel better. He's a grown maan and as a man, he shouldn't be emotional about the internet chats. Didn't you read MM's post? "BE A MAN." I don't think anyone was gunna bring up a lawsuit against him or anything close to that. If he lost deving powers? Why would he care, it'd be a break to move on in life and do bigger and better things.
No one would delete a whole thread just because people wanted an explanation for what happened. There was no one but Clawbug accusing him of scamming the community so don't say we all jumped to accusions. He also banned Farah for starting the topic, and don't say he had it coming, because if so, its mustve been the biggest coincidence of the 21st century. What about Grishnak, he banned Grish for posting a link to a topic on SCTFL. I checked the rules of soldatforums and he broke none of them.

So yeah, booyah.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on July 05, 2009, 09:17:32 pm
Not to forget teammate binking.
That was kept on purpose, and as NSC himself said, will stay that way. It has been discussed here: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=34855.0

Shinobars
No, as far as I know this question hasn't been answered and I've been wondering too. But NSC and MM are being silent. Maybe they just dont care.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: lewwy on July 06, 2009, 03:56:28 am
Well, I'd accuse you of being enesce, but I think enesce can at least count, or use his eyes.

First point: 9 pages. Not 14.

Second point: You clearly haven't even read the 9 pages, as if you had it would be quite clear to you that people are annoy enesce was using a dev server (abusing his position) that just happen to have code that reduced ping on his servers. The intention of the code is irrelevant; it was in his servers.

Third point: Enesce has been untrustworthy in the past, and has proven repeatedly that he has a very poor attitude towards other people online. I couldn't give a s**t about how he acts in real life, because that's not how I know him.

Finally: "accidentally leaves some debug code in, and gets roasted for it."
He actually was questioned about it first, at which point he had a rage, said that people were flat out lying, ignored all posts on the issue, deleted the thread from the forums and banned people several times. It was probably about then people started thinking there was something wrong.

I think I did somewhat miss the point actually.  But a lot of what I said still stands.  Basically its not up to you or anyone else to decide whether he's up for the job or not.  He knows delphi better than you do, so thats the qualification sussed out.  How many dev teams do you know where you can chat directly to the developer?

Is he good with PR?  Better question, can you make everyone happy?  If enesce turned up to your house with flowers and a box of chocalates begging you to forgive him, I'm pretty sure you'd turn him down anyway.  He screwed up, apoligized, and apparently thats not good enough for everyone.  What else do you want him to do? Step down as the dev?  Then soldat will be this version for the next 2 years till the project is disbanded.

As a coder, whenever something goes wrong, people instantly assume that its the coders fault.  99% of the time they are wrong, its because they're using the program wrong or hacking it up.  Its a safe assumption to make, but apparently not in this case.

And you're right, I didn't read 9 pages of kids shouting about this problem.  He did it, he stuffed up, annnnd now its time to move on.

You don't know what was going on in his life the day of this happening.  I'm not saying I do either, but I'm pretty sure that he might not have been able to deal with this as well as whatever else was going on.  Server hosting, dev for Soldat, and his personal life.  Thats quite a full time job.

EnEsCe volunteered to step down, MM said that wouldn't be necessary, so thats that.  Quit whinging and look forward to the next version of Soldat.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on July 06, 2009, 04:36:42 am
What else do you want him to do? Step down as the dev?  Then soldat will be this version for the next 2 years till the project is disbanded.

EnEsCe has done a lot of good things for Soldat during the time that he's been working on the game, but let's not pretend for even a moment that he's the only one capable of developing it. Suggesting that the project will crumble simply because EnEsCe is no longer a developer is simply daft.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: lewwy on July 06, 2009, 05:07:55 am
What else do you want him to do? Step down as the dev?  Then soldat will be this version for the next 2 years till the project is disbanded.

EnEsCe has done a lot of good things for Soldat during the time that he's been working on the game, but let's not pretend for even a moment that he's the only one capable of developing it. Suggesting that the project will crumble simply because EnEsCe is no longer a developer is simply daft.

Any project losing any developer will cause a significant holdup in the progress of that project.  You cant take what the current dev knows and super impose that onto a new dev.  It'd take ages for the new dev to get to the same stage that EnEsCe is at now.

Anyway I'm off to find a 10 page thread saying thanks to EnEsCe for all the great work and bugfixes that he's put into soldat.

Saddest thing is though, I won't find one.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on July 06, 2009, 05:17:58 am
That isn't at all what you previously said. You explicitly stated that the project would die without EnEsCe.

In any case, gratitude doesn't make 10 page threads—controversy does. It's sad, but that's probably how it's always going to be with almost any group of people.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: croat1gamer on July 06, 2009, 05:28:58 am
Anyway I'm off to find a 10 page thread saying thanks to EnEsCe for all the great work and bugfixes that he's put into soldat.

Saddest thing is though, I won't find one.
Find first a list of the things that eC did wrong that wasnt accidentaly.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on July 06, 2009, 05:32:44 am
What else do you want him to do? Step down as the dev?  Then soldat will be this version for the next 2 years till the project is disbanded.

EnEsCe has done a lot of good things for Soldat during the time that he's been working on the game, but let's not pretend for even a moment that he's the only one capable of developing it. Suggesting that the project will crumble simply because EnEsCe is no longer a developer is simply daft.
Anyway I'm off to find a 10 page thread saying thanks to EnEsCe for all the great work and bugfixes that he's put into soldat.

Saddest thing is though, I won't find one.

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=33758.0

anyway, people don't become developers to play heroes. If you lead something, you need to get satisfaction from it by yourself, because others apprectiate but don't usually express it. I always thought he's doing a good job on soldat, but it doesn't excuse his unacceptable actions. He should resign.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: lewwy on July 06, 2009, 06:53:23 am
What else do you want him to do? Step down as the dev?  Then soldat will be this version for the next 2 years till the project is disbanded.

EnEsCe has done a lot of good things for Soldat during the time that he's been working on the game, but let's not pretend for even a moment that he's the only one capable of developing it. Suggesting that the project will crumble simply because EnEsCe is no longer a developer is simply daft.
Anyway I'm off to find a 10 page thread saying thanks to EnEsCe for all the great work and bugfixes that he's put into soldat.

Saddest thing is though, I won't find one.

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=33758.0

anyway, people don't become developers to play heroes. If you lead something, you need to get satisfaction from it by yourself, because others apprectiate but don't usually express it. I always thought he's doing a good job on soldat, but it doesn't excuse his unacceptable actions. He should resign.

No, but people get their jobs to find satisfaction.  If when you throw a bit of a tanty people think that you should resign, then that would not give me satisfaction.

I have offered EnEsCe an alternative from Soldat coding, dephi/php coders are in high demand in the real world people.  He actually refused it saying that it wouldn't ring true on his conscience to do that.  He could easily fetch $30/hour in PHP coding alone, and yet he chooses not to.  He chooses to continue his coding for every single one of you.

And for everyone going OMG BUT IT RUNG TRUE TO BAN A BUNCH OF PEOPLE, grow up.  We all have bad days.  Saying a "bad day" excuse isn't good enough is stupid.  Nobodies perfect and you expect anyone to be you will be let down, plain and simple.

And yeah xurich, you're right.  Controversy does create bigger problems.  Thats because the moment something bad happens, all the scum come of the woodwork to jump on the bandwagon of "oh I never liked that guy...once a hacker always a hacker".  If you dont like him, stop playing the game.  Hes the one thats fixing the bugs.  I know my comment about the project failing without enesce was a bit forthcoming, but it would be dealt a serious blow.

Really, whats the better option here?  Accept the apology and get over it, or keep on about it until he resigns?

Seriously though, if its not figured out soon, its going to default to the former option.  Why?  The dude makes his bread and butter on server rentals, this much bad publicity and he'll lose that, forcing him to do other stuff.

P.S: eC stands for Enesce Corporation, aka server rental.  EnEsCe is....EnEsCe.  Try not to abbreviate EnEsCe to eC, because it can cause confusion.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on July 06, 2009, 06:59:33 am
if his bad day results in banning inoccent people over soldat, he doesn't fit as an admin, simple.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: STM1993 on July 06, 2009, 07:00:32 am
I still do not understand his refusal to let others work with him in development instead of doing everything alone if he is really passionate about helping develop Soldat.

Plus, if what NSC said Shoozza did about threatening him was true, then shouldn't we treat NSC the same way as he did to Shoozza? NSC threatened us. One's standards will be used against himself.

*sigh*

Oh well, let's move on and play some Soldat. As long as the game survives and grows, it'd be all good. If it is dying, then let us enjoy the last of the game. I personally don't expect anything more. The only reason why we are so worked up is because Soldat is a good game, and we don't want to see it screw up and we want it to improve. This incident has undermined everyone's hopes.

I'm done here. In fact, I should be done with the internet for now, I've got more important stuff than to continue arguing. I just hope it won't happen again.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: MetsuriTossavainen on July 06, 2009, 08:47:44 am
Enesce is best .. finally someone pwned this demented soldat community!
MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHHA
That is totally unnecessary garbage.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 06, 2009, 08:53:01 am
Enesce is best .. finally someone pwned this demented soldat community!
MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHHA
That is totally necessary garbage.
indeed, user warned / post deleted.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: SOoly on July 06, 2009, 09:49:48 am
Enesce is BAD .. pls someone kill this demented soldat playboy!
MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHHA
 [pigtail]
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 06, 2009, 10:07:25 am
Enesce is BAD .. pls someone kill this demented soldat playboy!
MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHHA
 [pigtail]

User muted.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Avarax on July 06, 2009, 03:09:32 pm
Thanks for your writing effort lewwy, you're expressing exactly what I'm thinking!
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: LtKillroy on July 06, 2009, 03:15:36 pm
The only thing I find passingly odd about this situation is if it was indeed unintentional, why would he rage that hard? Maybe I'm missing something.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: jrgp on July 06, 2009, 04:07:41 pm
The only thing I find passingly odd about this situation is if it was indeed unintentional, why would he rage that hard? Maybe I'm missing something.

Maybe he raged so hard in effort to combat the sudden huge bunch of people raging at him unexpectedly.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 06, 2009, 04:23:39 pm
Quote
Shoozza: Why you deleted the threads and banned people continuesely which looked like censorship?
EnEsCe: I was acting in blind rage, and yes I know it was wrong. I would never have done it normally, I can’t remember what exactly was going through my mind at the time. I most likely thought it would stop people harassing me on IRC; and people I trusted echoing confidential conversations etc, I also felt the other admins were all against me already. I acknowledge that it was stupid and I abused my admin privileges by doing so. Fair enough. I would have liked to read it all eventually. I apologize to the other forum admins for the trouble I caused, they did the right thing.

Why were you in a blind rage when no one, besides one guy, if I recall correctly, who was out of line, was provoking you, but rather were asking legitimate questions? Furthermore, people harassing you on IRC is easily fixed by the ignore function. I honestly can't see why you would think the admins were out to get you, as well.

Has this question gotten answered yet? If it has, I missed it. ;(

I still don't think I've received a decent answer to this question. Saying eC might have "had a bad day" or was just "in a bad mood" or something is complete and utter bulls**t. Using an excuse like that is opening the door for anyone to use it in the future for anything they do, and if we accept an idiotic excuse like that from eC, we'll also have to accept it from people in the future. That's a horrible precedent to set, especially considering it is a really stupid excuse for his completely unnecessary "blind rage."

No one, besides one dumbass who was out of line, was raging at NSC until after he mysteriously raged on the people who started the discussion. The second bolded portion still stands as true. If we accept that NSC did what he did because he had a hard, stressful day (poor baby, I hope you feel better! D: ) then we will have to accept that excuse from anyone who uses it in the future. And that particular excuse is a really easy one to use.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: LtKillroy on July 06, 2009, 07:46:07 pm
The only thing I find passingly odd about this situation is if it was indeed unintentional, why would he rage that hard? Maybe I'm missing something.

Maybe he raged so hard in effort to combat the sudden huge bunch of people raging at him unexpectedly.
I truly wish I could believe that, but simple rage does not explain deleting it from the admin trashcan.

*Edit*
Bah, arguing doesn't do a whole lot at this point. Its sad, but I hope it was just rage despite all this. I hope.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: ElGato on July 06, 2009, 08:39:14 pm
To be fair if you were in his situation and found something in the code that was giving your developmental server an advantage would you not also try and hide it? Intentional or not many people here do not trust Enesce and I'm sure they're very happy to say "I told you so". He had little room to breath here even with all the work he has done, I probably would have tried to hide it too and simply fixed it asap.

I don't know who's telling the truth here, and I honestly don't care much, but I do see a disturbing lack of interest by MM towards the whole thing.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: SpiltCoffee on July 06, 2009, 09:34:21 pm
No one, besides one dumbass who was out of line, was raging at NSC until after he mysteriously raged on the people who started the discussion.
Agreed, no one was raging at him. But he probably felt that people suggesting that he was lowering his pings intentionally (before realising/admitting that the line of code did actually exist) was the equivalent of an attack on him.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 06, 2009, 09:52:33 pm
I don't know how a calm conversation in which people were merely pointing out facts and looking for an answer to the peculiarities could be viewed as an attack. If NSC had pointed out that there was some sort of code bug accidentally left in there at that early point of the conversation, I'm relatively certain everyone would have moved on by now.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on July 06, 2009, 10:59:24 pm
I don't know how a calm conversation in which people were merely pointing out facts and looking for an answer to the peculiarities could be viewed as an attack. If NSC had pointed out that there was some sort of code bug accidentally left in there at that early point of the conversation, I'm relatively certain everyone would have moved on by now.

Believe it or not, but sometimes people do see things a completely different way. :S
Even I still don't entirely believe the story.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: SpiltCoffee on July 07, 2009, 01:41:46 am
If NSC had pointed out that there was some sort of code bug accidentally left in there at that early point of the conversation, I'm relatively certain everyone would have moved on by now.
I doubt that.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Biggles on July 07, 2009, 02:56:40 am
Well, I'd accuse you of being enesce, but I think enesce can at least count, or use his eyes.

to me it could easily be enesce :)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: lewwy on July 07, 2009, 03:38:06 am
I still do not understand his refusal to let others work with him in development instead of doing everything alone if he is really passionate about helping develop Soldat.

Plus, if what NSC said Shoozza did about threatening him was true, then shouldn't we treat NSC the same way as he did to Shoozza? NSC threatened us. One's standards will be used against himself.

*sigh*

Oh well, let's move on and play some Soldat. As long as the game survives and grows, it'd be all good. If it is dying, then let us enjoy the last of the game. I personally don't expect anything more. The only reason why we are so worked up is because Soldat is a good game, and we don't want to see it screw up and we want it to improve. This incident has undermined everyone's hopes.

I'm done here. In fact, I should be done with the internet for now, I've got more important stuff than to continue arguing. I just hope it won't happen again.

Its not really his call to let people help him dev with soldat.  Its not his code from the ground up, its MM's roots with EnEsCe's topsoil, if you get my gist.

If EnEsCe wants to open source it, then that would be seen as malicious. If MM wants to open source it, then that'd be wholly and solely up to him.  But thats not our choice, as already stated.

"if" what EnEsCe said against Shoozza is true.  I'm not casting doubt on anyone here or saying that Shoozza is a liar, but you can't win or lose battles over "if".

Biggles, I'm not EnEsCe.  Thats a factful statement, but frankly I have no idea how to prove it.  I talk a bit less fancy than him?  I can't front up with hard evidence that I'm not him, but I don't think I am ;)

Shinobars, people would have got on their high horse anyway, because everyone who would have been banned by EnEsCe would have immediately got on this because they had something to run with.  Finally a chance to take him down.  Falls into the same problem of "He's gone, now what".

Loner, it does sound far fetched in parts.  But its just rage combined with pride.  That can make quite a combination.

ElGato, its important to understand the chain of events.  He didn't find the code and then bust out his shiny new banhammer, it happened in reverse.  Its simply an easier, and more logical, line of reasoning to assume that a hacker is forcefully changing their pings then to view that your code (see: MM's code) is at fault.

SOoly, I think you're banned anyway, but you got on that bandwagon a little late, so next time time it better if you feel the need to troll.

Avarax, HOLY CRAP SOMEONES ON MY SIDE ;)

Anyway I think that this community is mending nicely.  Its a shame that I joined up on the "arse end" of it, so to speak.  I just felt that I needed to stand up for who I think is a great guy.

A short time from now, probs when EnEsCe thinks that this has died down appropriately, he'll probably post up on this forum.  I beg of everyone not to tear him down in flames, remember he is a human with pride.  Insulting him and making him mad will not help.

And for those disbelievers out there still, I guarantee that there is a happy ending to all of this and the friction in general.  There is a bit of a backstory, but its not up to me to divulge it to the Soldat community.

I'll probably catchya's when this place goes to hell next :)

-Lewwy
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shinobars on July 07, 2009, 02:32:29 pm
Shinobars, people would have got on their high horse anyway, because everyone who would have been banned by EnEsCe would have immediately got on this because they had something to run with.  Finally a chance to take him down.  Falls into the same problem of "He's gone, now what".

I was saying that if NSC had not raged on the community, but had instead found what was causing the problem first and then posted his explanation that everyone would have moved on by now.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: iDos on July 08, 2009, 12:56:49 pm
*deleted image*

Have fun laughing ;)..

Mod edit: Please don't do that.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Snow on July 08, 2009, 01:36:37 pm
What are we supposed to laugh at...? Please do not be disrespectful.

In fact unless, there are still viable arguments/comments and things to discuss concerning the purpose of this thread, I think it ran its course.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on July 08, 2009, 02:35:36 pm
What are we supposed to laugh at...? Please do not be disrespectful.

In fact unless, there are still viable arguments/comments and things to discuss concerning the purpose of this thread, I think it ran its course.




I won't even add anything. :]
Title: Ok so... vol.7
Post by: Dusty on September 10, 2009, 09:03:55 am
-- I'm annoyed by anything that stops me from working on games and it annoys me that EnEsCe could have also done some work instead of writing long posts and conducting "interviews". --

http://twitter.com/enesce/statuses/3881544158
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on September 10, 2009, 02:51:40 pm
What's the point here
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Xxypher on September 10, 2009, 03:10:05 pm
Seriously. So many of us want to help with Soldat. But we are never given the chance.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on September 10, 2009, 03:11:35 pm
The point is that MM's all about EnEsCe working instead of chatting here with us. What he actually does is playing other games than Soldat! That's just horrible...

I'd love to see some progress info of the current Soldat version instead of rather unexciting stories about other games. MM is doing way better on the PR side.

Probably I'm just biased.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Xxypher on September 10, 2009, 03:20:47 pm
I do miss MM...
What I want is a group of people working on it. Seriously. Even I could help.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on September 10, 2009, 03:27:20 pm
I do miss MM...
What I want is a group of people working on it. Seriously. Even I could help.
Well, it's become clear that neither NSC, nor MM want your (and not only your) wish to come true.
However you could help with development of open-source Soldat clone: http://opensoldat.u13.net/forum/index.php
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Xxypher on September 10, 2009, 03:34:39 pm
Soldat is starting to wither away because of hackers and people just slowly getting bored. He needs help. He SHOULD accept it.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on September 10, 2009, 03:40:37 pm
Soldat is starting to wither away because of hackers and people just slowly getting bored.
BattlEye should soon be updated, so hopefully hackerswill be dealt with.

He needs help. He SHOULD accept it.
Whether it is so or not - he doesn't care. Complaining about that any more won't change anything. Let's wait for 1.5.1 so we can get another reason to complain. Or maybe hope for a miracle to happen.

Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on September 10, 2009, 04:31:02 pm
The point is that MM's all about EnEsCe working instead of chatting here with us. What he actually does is playing other games than Soldat! That's just horrible...

I'd love to see some progress info of the current Soldat version instead of rather unexciting stories about other games. MM is doing way better on the PR side.

Probably I'm just biased.

Come on, you can't honestly expect to guy to code Soldat every waking hour. You don't spend every minute of your free time on your workload, do you? He's entitled to play other games just as much as anybody else here. It doesn't mean that he's not investing adequate time in the development of Soldat as well.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: tehsnipah on September 10, 2009, 07:35:31 pm
Damn, this actually happened while I was gone?

Anyways, although NSC did something way too sudden without any explanation, people should realize how really stressful it is to have such big responsibility.

Now I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but each should see other's perspective thought. This incident could've been prevented if NSC didn't rush too much.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on September 10, 2009, 07:50:44 pm
Once Modern Warfare 2 comes out, I'm gone.
I'll still play. But 12 hours a day will be committed to MW2.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on September 10, 2009, 08:26:46 pm
Thanks for the info, man, but what does it have to do with the topic at hand?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on September 10, 2009, 09:59:07 pm
Thanks for the info, man, but what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

If you're referring to me, I thought this was the Soldat is dying topic.... -,-''
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: demoniac93 on September 11, 2009, 01:24:53 pm
It's impossible to run soldat's dev-ing by one man unless MM gets back to what already is his biggest achievement ever. Even if link dead works out peachy, it'll be partially affected by his experience with soldat, and you ALL know that the original things are always the best. A small example would be saying that the 1st Silent Hill was the best.
And since MM isn't likely to go back to working on soldat I say either make a team of 3-4 less experienced developers, or make Shoozza and EnEsCe work TOGETHER, with regular inspections of both of their works.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shoozza on September 14, 2009, 02:06:51 pm
It's impossible to run soldat's dev-ing by one man unless MM gets back to what already is his biggest achievement ever. Even if link dead works out peachy, it'll be partially affected by his experience with soldat, and you ALL know that the original things are always the best. A small example would be saying that the 1st Silent Hill was the best.
And since MM isn't likely to go back to working on soldat I say either make a team of 3-4 less experienced developers, or make Shoozza and EnEsCe work TOGETHER, with regular inspections of both of their works.

I think the devs don't want any change.
I will not discuss the reasons here because it will end up in flaming against them.
To change something you need to convince EnEsCe to accept another dev.
Talking about how bad it is will not change anything.

The idea to make a team of 3-4 other people who work on Soldat is even less realistic
since that would mean that EnEsCe has to stop developing Soldat, which he will not unless MM forces him to stop.
And you have seen this isn't really going to happen.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on September 14, 2009, 02:37:08 pm
How can you convince EnEsCe to anything if he's ignoring the whole community?

I'd be so glad if he understood to release a bugfix BEFORE adding new stuff, after a short period of time since the last release. That's what he almost did but huh what happened?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: demoniac93 on September 14, 2009, 03:10:05 pm
Well it's kinda what I call an amateur's mistake, he was under a lot of pressure from being assigned as soldat's sole dev, and didn't think about fixing bugs left over from 1.4.2 before adding the new stuff.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shoozza on September 14, 2009, 03:21:49 pm
How can you convince EnEsCe to anything if he's ignoring the whole community?

Good question. Sadly I don't have an answer for you.
I also have a few suggestions he will possibly never follow.
And it's not like I haven't tried to convince EnEsCe multiple times.
I guess he takes it as criticism and therefore dislikes what I write.
As far as I can say the ping fraud event could be one of the reasons which made him 'ignore' the community.

I'd be so glad if he understood to release a bugfix BEFORE adding new stuff, after a short period of time since the last release. That's what he almost did but huh what happened?

Releasing a bugfix also requires some communication.
Like $able needs to update BE to work with the new version and MM needs to create an installer and pack everything.
This could take one month depending on how busy they are. So it cannot be done in a few weeks, you understand.

I totally agree that a bugfix only release a few months (3 or so) after the final release would be useful (and possible).
But that's not up to me.

You know that 1.5.0 was supposed to be 1.4.2 - a bugfix release?
I think one reason why it didn't stay a bugfix release was because features are fun bugs are annoying.

I hope I didn't went too far away from your questions.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on September 14, 2009, 03:23:48 pm
I didn't mean the jump from 1.4.2 to 1.5.0. What I said is exactly what he is doing right now.

As I said, bugfix was what he intended to do (http://enesce.com/206/soldat/aftermath-of-150/), but then came the "new stuff." (http://enesce.com/289/soldat/scriptcore-parameter-warning/)

@Shoozza: Yeah, you're correct about it taking more than just a couple of days, yet it shouldn't take years. I just don't understand why EnEsCe doesn't do what is best for pretty much everyone in the community, including himself. Release bugfix before new stuff - gain respect.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shoozza on September 14, 2009, 03:37:48 pm
What I wanted to tell is that the same thing like last time when we jumped from 1.4.2 to 1.5.0 seems to happen again.

I agree that breaking compatibility with old scripts is a huge change.
But that's a serverside change and not clientside (which ofc doesn't make it less frustrating).
If it would be a clientside change I would name it Soldat 1.6.0 and not 1.5.1.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on September 14, 2009, 03:44:06 pm
I guess he takes it as criticism and therefore dislikes what I write.

Takes it as criticism, dislikes it and becomes very defensive.

What I wanted to tell is that the same thing like last time when we jumped from 1.4.2 to 1.5.0 seems to happen again.

Oh, well that's more than true.

Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on September 14, 2009, 05:31:03 pm
@Shoozza: Yeah, you're correct about it taking more than just a couple of days, yet it shouldn't take years. I just don't understand why EnEsCe doesn't do what is best for pretty much everyone in the community, including himself. Release bugfix before new stuff - gain respect.

i guess its just more fun for him to code some fancy features than to fix bugs
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on September 14, 2009, 05:53:28 pm
But whats the point of releasing bugfixes AND THEN new features.

When that will cause more bugs.

He needs to make the next version completely bugless. I mean completely.
And than work on all the awesome ideas for the next couple of months.

Mainly more options in weapon.ini
Since thats not exactly hard. (from what i know of)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shoozza on September 14, 2009, 06:12:52 pm
But whats the point of releasing bugfixes AND THEN new features.

See when you have a version which has very few bugs (version A) and you have the sourcecode for it.
You can easily compare the version with new features (version B) with your old version A (which has less bugs).
If a bug is in version B and not in version A you know that it's in the new stuff you added in version B (so possible a new feature bug).

This way you can find bugs easier. That's why I like to use Version Control you can compare and go back if something went really wrong.

When that will cause more bugs.

There are bugs everywhere (not only in nature). Even in the well tested NASA code you find one bug every 1000 loc (lines of code).

He needs to make the next version completely bugless. I mean completely.
And than work on all the awesome ideas for the next couple of months.

Mainly more options in weapon.ini
Since thats not exactly hard. (from what i know of)
Completely bugless is impossible because then he would have to find all unknown bugs people will find in future.
But I totally agree that it makes more scene to fix all known bugs first before starting to add new features which will cause more bugs.

I recently found out that setting an option in soldat.ini to 0 causes division by zero errors ;) (just another example how easy bugs can be created only by adding an option to the soldat.ini).

Reading an option from the ini file is no problem. It actually depends what the option changes.
If it's just changing the default value of a variable and if this variable has no side effects when changed to some value it may be easy.
If however the option requires code changes or creates side-effects you might agree that it's not that easy.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Illuminatus on September 15, 2009, 02:40:07 pm
...and NOW I want to hear EnEsCe's opinion about this topic, here and in detail!
Come'on, this is your chance! [retard]
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Illuminatus on September 21, 2009, 12:53:49 am
Ohmagad! :-X
EnEsCe's still crying: (http://enesce.com/356/soldat/151-will-be-public-beta/#comment-262)
1.5.1 was meant to be bug fixes only, originally I fully intended it to be that way, but when the Soldat Forums decided to be dickfaces towards me for many weeks (and probably still going on), things changed.

Doublepost to bump topic.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on September 21, 2009, 03:49:24 am
Quote
And yes, 1.5.1 was meant to be bug fixes only, originally I fully intended it to be that way, but when the Soldat Forums decided to be dickfaces towards me for many weeks (and probably still going on), things changed. Could you sit for 5+ hours every day, only fixing bugs, knowing that the people you do it all for are just bitching about you behind your back? No, you’d go and do something fun, explore ideas and possibilities to create new features.

what kind of twisted logic is that ?
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on September 21, 2009, 08:25:35 am
Heh, he saved my day.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Eagles_Arrows on September 21, 2009, 09:06:04 am
Maybe if he fixed the bugs, we wouldn't be bitching anymore?

Although he said he's working on them now...
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: croat1gamer on September 21, 2009, 09:35:22 am
His twisted logic is somehow logical.
Why should he just fix the bugs when a decent part of the SF community rants: "OMG PING FRAUD, GIEF SHOOZZA DEV, REMOVE EC FROM DEV TEAM!!!" if he can also try to add some stuff which will get some new players and might be the reason for some old ones to return?

But there is the possibility to stop developing soldat, but then Shoozza would become a dev, what eC doesnt want.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on September 21, 2009, 10:40:17 am
The community started bitching about the ping "fraud" because E nEsCe himself failed to co-operate. Instead of telling people the facts, he started to ban people in blind rage, as he used to call it.

No, new features will not bring the old players back.  The old peeps left because of them in the first place.

It's not very good for the game, nor the developer to exactly the opposite of community's wishes. Add crap like this on top of all, and you're good to go.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Shoozza on September 21, 2009, 11:16:13 am
Quote
And yes, 1.5.1 was meant to be bug fixes only, originally I fully intended it to be that way, but when the Soldat Forums decided to be dickfaces towards me for many weeks (and probably still going on), things changed. Could you sit for 5+ hours every day, only fixing bugs, knowing that the people you do it all for are just b***hing about you behind your back? No, you’d go and do something fun, explore ideas and possibilities to create new features.

what kind of twisted logic is that ?
Sounds like he wants to punish the Community. But I don't see the benefit for EnEsCe when he is not deving for the Community.

My opinion on that is:

Not listen to stuff people say behind you back It's not your problem. But also don't distance yourself from the community. They play the game you are coding. They like it (more or less) and they are worried about it. I think they should be heard.

By doing stuff for them less people will be "dickfaces" towards you (using less vulgar words could help).
In my opinion It's not always the fault of other people maybe your actions make them respond like that. I would try to take a different view on these things.

The community gives you feedback and when they flame it's no invitation to get mad, join the flame or just run away and leave them alone, but to reduce it to the facts and work on what you learned out of it.
Staying polite in such situations is a benefit.

If you want to act like a boss of the game who is slaving the community and has full control on everything you will not get much happy faces here.
But giving the community the feeling they are respected and included in the development process will give you more positive feedback and could make the 5+ hours of bugfixing a smaller annoyance.

The fact that you are "attacked by people" maybe come from your position as sole dev of Soldat. I don't say you should share responsibility but being the only one who actively works on the game makes it easy for people to determine the person who is responsible for a certain issue in the game.
When you can accept and still stay open to anyone who "criticizes" you, you will see much better opinions here.

At last that is what I think.

But now the good stuff:

I like the fact that you remove unnecessary/not used stuff like the Soldat chat and save resources that way.

I'm happy to hear that you work a lot on Soldat. More then 5 hours every day is a lot.

I also enjoy to hear about fixed bugs in Soldat even when I don't hear a lot about it. I know you are trying to hunt them down.

I think it was a good decision to continue with making open betas for Soldat. There just needs to be more feedback from the players. Maybe you already thought about how to make it easier for them to give feedback.

It's good to see you fighting about problems the game has (like the cheats).

Exploring new ideas and possibilities is also necessary to make Soldat stay fresh. I guess you keep a special surprise for the players. A reward for waiting for the new version maybe?

You have fun with developing Soldat don't let you get down! Working on code on a bad day just makes regret it later so your way is the right one.


Hopefully this post helps EnEsCe finding a way to get more in touch with the community.


I'm looking forward to the next version of Soldat. And I think EnEsCe will do a good job.
I don't believe he wants to proof me wrong (that he will do a good job).

Side-note:
I actually played Driver 2 for PSX only because of the funny bugs it had. Yeah bugs can be fun.
But still Soldat doesn't offer many of them. Time to add some :P (yeah just kidding).
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: xurich on September 21, 2009, 05:05:56 pm
Excellent post, Shoozza. I agree with everything that you said. Consider posting it as a response to his blog entry so that he'll actually see it since he doesn't visit us here. Maybe it'll make him think about how juvenile he's being and he'll grow up a bit (we can hope :P).
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: L[0ne]R on September 21, 2009, 05:10:36 pm
Excellent post, Shoozza. I agree with everything that you said. Consider posting it as a response to his blog entry so that he'll actually see it since he doesn't visit us here. Maybe it'll make him think about how juvenile he's being and he'll grow up a bit (we can hope :P).
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Ouchek on September 22, 2009, 08:05:09 am
another proof of maturity from NSC im glad hes deving the game still after reading his blog
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Clawbug on September 22, 2009, 02:43:00 pm
Be respectful and earn the respect, or gtfo. He choose the latter. Frankly I kind of like it this way.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Mittsu on September 22, 2009, 02:59:22 pm
wow, enesce removed my comment, he is avoiding this forum and when i move my ass to his silly blog he removes any words of criticism there... this situation is sick
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on September 22, 2009, 03:06:24 pm
You cannot remove something you haven't added. He doesn't publish the negative comments.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Ouchek on September 22, 2009, 07:35:33 pm
thanks captain obvious at the end of the day, the result is the same but thanks for sharing again...
If you guys have any technical questions, feel free to ask dusty I'm sure he'll be glad to answer...my god what would one do for a high post number jeez'

Anyways, back to le topic, clawbug I agree with you, it's better now that hes out of the community however it's dumb to dev a game if you're against the community...meh I guess everyone got my point now im done (Hopefully MM will read those posts and decide to give the source code to Shoozza or any other competent person only mentioned Shoozza as hes the only guy ive heard about)
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Dusty on September 23, 2009, 05:38:41 am
Does it bother you much? Having a huge post count on every forum I go to is the main goal in my life.
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: F4||3N on September 23, 2009, 05:50:31 am
He announced the beta 20 days ago. Where the f@k is it! I want it now, not in another 6 months. God f4king damn!
Title: Re: Ok so...
Post by: Illuminatus on September 23, 2009, 09:18:33 am
this situation is sick

word!
...on one hand he denies all communication with us, the community, on the other he wants to hold a public beta-test.
hm...and who d'you think will participate? about >80% will be from here - so why in hell does he stop talking with us? should we move this discussion to EnEsCe's forum?!?

and btw, he edited his post: Just because I don’t talk about bugfixes does not mean there aren’t any. (http://enesce.com/356/soldat/151-will-be-public-beta/)
why in hell???