Official Soldat Forums
Soldat Talk => General Discussions => Topic started by: scarface09 on September 24, 2009, 09:55:11 am
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Seriously, it's really starting to annoy me how there is only one person who is BARELY working on Soldat. Why can't we get more experienced programmers working on Soldat, releasing small patches or updates every month or week if we can. It's really bad how we are so desperate on one person to fix everything and we must wait so long for small things to be fixed which just create more havoc. Argh, why can't MM get more people to help out like Shoozza or anybody that knows decent programming skills to just help.
I know it's asking alot but isn't everybody sick of waiting years for new releases and begging for small and minor changes to be done. Why is EnEsCe the only person in charge of developing Soldat?
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what about shoozza? he is on development crew?
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I think it's because MM can't provide any money to developers.
We need devoted to soldat programmers which won't give up working on our beloved game just because they don't get any benefits of it.
Imagine it to yourself - unfinished code is much worse than one finished but progressing slowly (like it is now).
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Yeah ... it's better to do soldat Slowly and carefully than in a hurry
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MM doesn't trust anyone and Enesce won't share the job. He wants it for himself.
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MM doesn't trust anyone and Enesce won't share the job. He wants it for himself.
That.
There are HEAPS more better people to do the job, and the ones that have tried to help Enesce by reporting bugs, and ideas to him but all they get is a permanent ban from his IRC channel.
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MM doesn't trust anyone and Enesce won't share the job. He wants it for himself.
It's more like EnEsCe doesn't trust anyone else and is far too insecure to try.
...but all they get is a permanent ban from his IRC channel.
Or are just silently ignored.
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MM just truly believes that EnEsCe is good enough for the job.
I think it's because MM can't provide any money to developers.
EnEsCe doesn't get paid for working on Soldat...
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Good enough, yeah, but is he actually doing it?
More people should be allowed to work on it. Especially when people are willing to for free just because they love the game.
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Start spamming his inbox and blog, then. :D
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Start spamming his inbox and blog, then. :D
Or stop. :P
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Yeah, or that. Just come to terms with the fact that EnEsCe is going to be the developer and MM isn't going to care what anyone says... lol.
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Why won't MM care what anybody else says, we are trying to improve his game here...make him more money...
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So spam MM's inbox. (;
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Why won't MM care what anybody else says, we are trying to improve his game here...make him more money...
Why should he care what anybody else says? Plus, he's probably still making a bit of money off Soldat, at least enough for him.
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http://opensoldat.u13.net/forum/index.php?topic=34.0 (http://opensoldat.u13.net/forum/index.php?topic=34.0) there are heaps of people that would be willing to help, but they don't want help.
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With all of MM's wh*** s**t about manliness and all that crap, he thinks it isn't the act of REAL MEN to whine...Didn't Bruce Willis (Die hard) whine a lot? In that movie he seems more than man enough for my standards, which are pretty f**king high...
Edit: For those that lack IQ to figure it out, ^THAT was sarcasm...
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With all of MM's wh*** s**t about manliness and all that crap, he thinks it isn't the act of REAL MEN to whine...Didn't Bruce Willis (Die hard) whine a lot? In that movie he seems more than man enough for my standards, which are pretty f**king high...
indeed, whining is cool. only cool and utterly talented and devine people whine~. too bad others doesn't understand it ;3
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Hey ur back and unmuted lol. Yeah whining is cool and no shame about it. If you want something ur way, you gotta whine it ur way.
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what about shoozza? he is on development crew?
The fuck? He is/was a beta tester, and all they did was report bugs to NSC.
I think it's because MM can't provide any money to developers.
We need devoted to soldat programmers which won't give up working on our beloved game just because they don't get any benefits of it.
Imagine it to yourself - unfinished code is much worse than one finished but progressing slowly (like it is now).
NSC gets no money for developing soldat.
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Grrr, you're annoying me...Did I even mention that EnEsCe gets money for developing soldat? No, I did NOT.
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Because have life and they do not want to spend their valuable time on gayass game.
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Grrr, you're annoying me...Did I even mention that EnEsCe gets money for developing soldat? No, I did NOT.
I think it's because MM can't provide any money to developers.
We need devoted to soldat programmers which won't give up working on our beloved game just because they don't get any benefits of it.
Imagine it to yourself - unfinished code is much worse than one finished but progressing slowly (like it is now).
Well, annoying or not, that's how I understood it.
I'm pretty sure when NSC got the job he knew that he'll get no money, and it was his choice to work on Soldat or not.
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Because have life and they do not want to spend their valuable time on gayass game.
wrong, there are people willing to work on it for free, btw you're gayass with time worth shit as you waste it on hacking the game you're not even interested in
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That's for pissing you off. :)
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Everyone always complain that the versions are not out fast enough. Then when it's released people complain that it's too buggy. Then people complain about the weapon balance and how it should be reverted to 1.2.1, then when the new balance beta comes out, everyone complains its way too overpowered.
Don't you see the recurring cycle. Everyone thinks they know the solutions to fixing this game, when in reality most of you are just indecisive d-bags that make the developers lose their mind since none of you can make up your mind.
That is the exact reason why there is a chosen few who work on it, whether you agree or disagree that they are fixing the game. They are doing something right because you are still here complaining rather than quitting the game.
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That's for pissing you off. :)
youre not pissing anyone off, its just annoying for a while when youre ruining the game until you get banned, in fact no one gives a s**t about you, im just replying to what you said as it was completely false and either stated you have no life or are a hypocrite
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@Centurion: It's rather pathetic yet so hilarious that you don't have anything better to do than pissing people off.
@jerich: The right choices were done in the past. I'm not the first one to say that the amount of players has been going downhill for a while already. One of the main reasons for such would be bad PR.
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I'm not the first one to say that the amount of players has been going downhill for a while already.
Things get old and die. If less people continue playing Soldat, that's because there's newer, fresher games for them to play. Without making an entire new game (which is what MM is doing), there's not much you can really do.
Eventually, you'll just be left with the people who really love Soldat.
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Which is a beautiful thought, really. As you said, new games come up, and ultimately soldat will not be able to compete. However, due to your last statement, soldat will never really die. There will always be some oldies going at it, just for the sake of old times.
Soldat is immortal.
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There's a lot of unanswered questions, but I don't think we'll be getting answers anytime soon. Or perhaps never. MM and NSC dont even visit the forums, but they're the only ones that have the answers.
Either MM and/or NSC will finally care to answer them (it's not that hard now is it?) or it won't go beyond being "just another whiny forum post".
If you look for answers - you wont find them here. :/
P.S. As NSC said on his blog somewhere - it's hard for multiple developers to cooperate, thats why he prefers to work alone. Though I think it's just a lame excuse, and the true reason might be different.
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Soldat is immortal.
So is Wolf3D, but maybe in the same way spilt mentioned.
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P.S. As NSC said on his blog somewhere - it's hard for multiple developers to cooperate, thats why he prefers to work alone. Though I think it's just a lame excuse, and the true reason might be different.
Depends on the circumstances. In this case, it's probably just hard for him to work with other developers on the same project. Maybe he just thinks trying to work together with someone else might become counter-productive, because they have to communicate, and so time gets wasted there, and stuff like that.
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I think thats a load of bs. As if, more people working on a game will stop it from develeping. Just stupid, he just wants all the credit for himself, and screws the game up while he's at it.
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No, scarface, your statement isn't backed up by any facts. The fact in this case is that people usually tend to work by their views and experiences, and it's almost always hard to get them to see things from a different perspective or convince them that their expectations could be wrong.
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Soldat is immortal.
Sadly...
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No, scarface, your statement isn't backed up by any facts. The fact in this case is that people usually tend to work by their views and experiences, and it's almost always hard to get them to see things from a different perspective or convince them that their expectations could be wrong.
thats why there is always a main project manager who has the last word on everything, haven't you thought of that? What you're saying is a complete ignorance to reality where games are being developed by groups of people, not single men. It wouldn't be a problem if the man behind soldat wasn't acting like a child, but enesce's words and actions make me (and many more people) trust him less and less. Until something changes, i'll keep on making pressure because i don't like how things are being done here
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Sadly...
Get the hell out of here.
Anyway just respect and say "Thanks" to the people that work on soldat for free,That will give them more motivation to make soldat better!
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P.S. As NSC said on his blog somewhere - it's hard for multiple developers to cooperate, thats why he prefers to work alone. Though I think it's just a lame excuse, and the true reason might be different.
Depends on the circumstances. In this case, it's probably just hard for him to work with other developers on the same project. Maybe he just thinks trying to work together with someone else might become counter-productive, because they have to communicate, and so time gets wasted there, and stuff like that.
He could not really take any credit for Soldat if there were other people included in the project. He fails to listen to other peoples views, and that would cause problems. He does everything by his own head, thats why he couldn't care less to visit the forums. It's HIS game, NOT ours.
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thats why there is always a main project manager who has the last word on everything, haven't you thought of that? What you're saying is a complete ignorance to reality where games are being developed by groups of people, not single men. It wouldn't be a problem if the man behind soldat wasn't acting like a child, but enesce's words and actions make me (and many more people) trust him less and less. Until something changes, i'll keep on making pressure because i don't like how things are being done here
But neither MM or EnEsCe have the experience or training on how to do project management.
He fails to listen to other peoples views
... but when the Soldat Forums decided to be dickfaces towards me for many weeks (and probably still going on), things changed. Could you sit for 5+ hours every day, only fixing bugs, knowing that the people you do it all for are just b***hing about you behind your back? No, you’d go and do something fun, ...
I think he used to listen, and probably even care, but nowadays, he just doesn't try.
Because MM and EnEsCe don't seem to be changing their stance (and are moving further and further away from the community the more it screams), I'd say the community should try and work with EnEsCe instead of alienating him.
Since the main reason people seem to be unhappy with EnEsCe (besides the recent debacle) is because he's not fixing bugs. But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way.
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I'd say the community should try and work with EnEsCe instead of alienating him.
How exactly do you imagine this should be?
As far as I'm concerned, community tried working together, a lot of times, but NSC refused most of that help.
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How exactly do you imagine this should be?
I don't exactly know, because I don't feel like one of the people who is trying to get rid of EnEsCe.
As far as I'm concerned, community tried working together, a lot of times, but NSC refused most of that help.
Ha. So the Public Beta wasn't a flop?
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How exactly do you imagine this should be?
I don't exactly know, because I don't feel like one of the people who is trying to get rid of EnEsCe.
So you're saying that everyone else is being useless and instead wants to get rid of EnEsCe? You need to back up your argument with something more than that. :/
If you can't suggest what we should do to improve the situation - your argument isn't exactly valid.
As far as I'm concerned, community tried working together, a lot of times, but NSC refused most of that help.
Ha. So the Public Beta wasn't a flop?
I think making beta public was more like a necessary action rather than a favor to the community. Either way, it was a good thing that beta went public, so it's not all bad. But the thing is - it could've been a lot better.
(all of the above is just my point of view)
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So you're saying that everyone else is being useless and instead wants to get rid of EnEsCe?
No. I'm saying that the voices that EnEsCe happens to be hearing from the community happen to be from the people who don't like what he is doing and who want him either replaced or put to work with someone else. It appears to me that these people (and there are a lot of people... you should try coming down to Australia, there's a lot of people here who don't like what he's doing) are the people who are pushing EnEsCe away from the community.
If you want EnEsCe to fix bugs first and make features second, don't be going around throwing mud at him at the same time. That's all I'm saying.
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Well, sadly it's the nature of the forums. There are a lot of trolls and screaming 12-year-olds who obviously can't provide a decent responce.
But then
The community gives you feedback and when they flame it's no invitation to get mad, join the flame or just run away and leave them alone, but to reduce it to the facts and work on what you learned out of it.
Staying polite in such situations is a benefit.
Besides, there has been quite a lot of good feedback, and the reason it eventually turned into flame is because a lot of this feedback wasn't put to good use.
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thats why there is always a main project manager who has the last word on everything, haven't you thought of that? What you're saying is a complete ignorance to reality where games are being developed by groups of people, not single men. It wouldn't be a problem if the man behind soldat wasn't acting like a child, but enesce's words and actions make me (and many more people) trust him less and less. Until something changes, i'll keep on making pressure because i don't like how things are being done here
But neither MM or EnEsCe have the experience or training on how to do project management.
do they have to? It's just a matter of good organization, even i could do that. This argument is just silly.
He fails to listen to other peoples views
... but when the Soldat Forums decided to be dickfaces towards me for many weeks (and probably still going on), things changed. Could you sit for 5+ hours every day, only fixing bugs, knowing that the people you do it all for are just b***hing about you behind your back? No, you’d go and do something fun, ...
I think he used to listen, and probably even care, but nowadays, he just doesn't try.
this is quite a barrier in an internet game development
Because MM and EnEsCe don't seem to be changing their stance (and are moving further and further away from the community the more it screams), I'd say the community should try and work with EnEsCe instead of alienating him.
every move he makes will have an impact on people's opinions and judgements. It's him alienating himself, people here just write what they think, i haven't seen anyone saying "get out, you dont belong here", just harsh opinions about his terrible actions. He is the only man developing the game everyone is here for, it's obvious there are some expectations and opinions, by running away he just proves acting like a child.
Since the main reason people seem to be unhappy with EnEsCe (besides the recent debacle) is because he's not fixing bugs. But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way.
personally i'm not one of those people, i don't think he does a bad job on the game itself (even though this isn't what i'd call an excellent work either), but this
"But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way."
is stunning. I mean, don't you see it's wrong? I don't know what is your relationship with enesce, but you're completely ignoring common sense here.
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do they have to?
You've gotta be able to organise the project well between development team members, or it's going to become counter-productive. EnEsCe probably doesn't know how to do this effectively, so he feels that trying to will just waste time and cause less work to be done in the same amount of time.
this is quite a barrier in an internet game development
Indeed
every move he makes will have an impact on people's opinions and judgements. It's him alienating himself, people here just write what they think, i haven't seen anyone saying "get out, you dont belong here", just harsh opinions about his terrible actions.
That's just the way I interpreted his impression of the community. I'm under the belief that he doesn't really partake in the forums regularly (although he has been visiting the Game Improvements and Help forum with a few posts) because he feels there are people who are actively resisting him.
He is the only man developing the game everyone is here for, it's obvious there are some expectations and opinions, by running away he just proves acting like a child.
He hasn't exactly run away. I'd say it's more that he's still in the room, but he's not willing to look at anyone.
personally i'm not one of those people, i don't think he does a bad job on the game itself (even though this isn't what i'd call an excellent work either), but this
"But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way."
is stunning. I mean, don't you see it's wrong? I don't know what is your relationship with enesce, but you're completely ignoring common sense here.
Um... no, I don't. I'd say this is him trying to smite people who dislike his efforts. :P
How exactly am I ignoring common sense, anyway? It's not my view, it's his; I just rephrased it.
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i thought you're agreeing with enesce on this view, and yeah, i think its wrong to take the game's developer position, screw up quite few times at it, and then smite people who dislike his way of work by messing around with the game and intentionally delaying the release.
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i thought you're agreeing with enesce on this view,
I'm not necessarily agreeing with it, just more understanding where he's coming from.
and yeah, i think its wrong to take the game's developer position, screw up quite few times at it, and then smite people who dislike his way of work by messing around with the game and intentionally delaying the release.
I doubt he's intentionally delaying the release (after all, Soldat is notorious for it's large timespans between releases), and he's not exactly messing around with the game; he's added more features than bugfixes according to his last blog post, which was from a glance at the changelog.
As for the rest, well, yeah, he has been a bit of a fool.
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thats why there is always a main project manager who has the last word on everything, haven't you thought of that? What you're saying is a complete ignorance to reality where games are being developed by groups of people, not single men. It wouldn't be a problem if the man behind soldat wasn't acting like a child, but enesce's words and actions make me (and many more people) trust him less and less. Until something changes, i'll keep on making pressure because i don't like how things are being done here
But neither MM or EnEsCe have the experience or training on how to do project management.
He fails to listen to other peoples views
... but when the Soldat Forums decided to be dickfaces towards me for many weeks (and probably still going on), things changed. Could you sit for 5+ hours every day, only fixing bugs, knowing that the people you do it all for are just b***hing about you behind your back? No, you’d go and do something fun, ...
I think he used to listen, and probably even care, but nowadays, he just doesn't try.
Because MM and EnEsCe don't seem to be changing their stance (and are moving further and further away from the community the more it screams), I'd say the community should try and work with EnEsCe instead of alienating him.
Since the main reason people seem to be unhappy with EnEsCe (besides the recent debacle) is because he's not fixing bugs. But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way.
So, let's forgive the man who has deceived the community not only once, but twice, acted like a retard more than twice and is has now decided to stop caring for the community and work on Soldat as he likes. Actually I believe that revert back to 1.4.2, fix the bugs and release the 1.4.3 and then QUIT FOR GOOD, and the community will fucking bow down in front of him.
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If EnEsCe didn't want all the criticism we give him he shouldn't of taken the job up in the first place and let someone who actually cares about the game and the people that play it. If he wasn't man enough to cop it then get out.
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With eC doing all of the main work, and a group of people doing smaller things like bug fixes and so on, Soldat would go along much better.
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If EnEsCe didn't want all the criticism we give him he shouldn't of taken the job up in the first place and let someone who actually cares about the game and the people that play it. If he wasn't man enough to cop it then get out.
But how was he to know that he would receive the criticism he has encountered?
With eC doing all of the main work, and a group of people doing smaller things like bug fixes and so on, Soldat would go along much better.
Well, actually, you've just reminded me of something. MM, at some point, had EnEsCe working on only the dedicated server (which is how he's also come to work on the client, since MM wanted to pass it on), so my previous point of neither having much project management experience sorta falls appart. :S
I agree, having more people contributing to the development of Soldat can only be beneficial, but MM sees no need for it - he trusts EnEsCe's ability to keep Soldat going, so I think that trying to argue the point is going to get us all nowhere (as are any attempts to try and get EnEsCe replaced by another developer), so...
let's forgive the man who has deceived the community not only once, but twice, acted like a retard more than twice and is has now decided to stop caring for the community and work on Soldat as he likes.
Pretty much.
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Can you read my post properly and not give back stupid answers. Seriously...
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I did. Maybe I'll try elaborating on my question.
If EnEsCe didn't want all the criticism we give him he shouldn't of taken the job up in the first place and let someone who actually cares about the game and the people that play it. If he wasn't man enough to cop it then get out.
How was EnEsCe to know that he was going to cock things up and then get continuously criticised for it?
EnEsCe doesn't want all the criticism, but you can't argue that he shouldn't have taken up the job if he didn't think he could handle it when he didn't even know he was going to get it.
If anything, he's dealing with the criticism by just ignoring it and getting on with developing Soldat.
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let's forgive the man who has deceived the community not only once, but twice, acted like a retard more than twice and is has now decided to stop caring for the community and work on Soldat as he likes.
Pretty much.
I am speechless. You're actually saying that community should just get used to EnEsCe's attitude, all the shit he has thrown at the community. How do you think Soldat would go forward, when the man in charge does whatever he pleases without having slighest intention to work with the community? He has already proven that he is not turstworthy person. He has already proven that he is the same ass he was in 2004/2005. No, programming skills won't save him either.
He isn't driven by passion as MM is. He is driven by acceptance and respect. Something he has never felt enough despite all his attempts. Something he should never get from this community, after all the deceiving. What would make him trustworthy after all this shit?
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On the other side, a part of the community threw more shit at him than he has ever thrown at it.
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could we maybe a get a bit fewer of these shit topics? nothings gonna change, better get used to it.
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I did. Maybe I'll try elaborating on my question.
If EnEsCe didn't want all the criticism we give him he shouldn't of taken the job up in the first place and let someone who actually cares about the game and the people that play it. If he wasn't man enough to cop it then get out.
How was EnEsCe to know that he was going to cock things up and then get continuously criticised for it?
EnEsCe doesn't want all the criticism, but you can't argue that he shouldn't have taken up the job if he didn't think he could handle it when he didn't even know he was going to get it.
If anything, he's dealing with the criticism by just ignoring it and getting on with developing Soldat.
its really none of our concern why he does all these things, what he's doing and what he'll do in the future as long as he resigns. He just should do it after all this crap. If he's out, they no one will give a s**t about him and he won't be flamed, simple as that. He created this situation and he can't handle it, it's his own fault that he's getting critisized with such tension for holding to his position so tight after everything that happend.
could we maybe a get a bit fewer of these s**t topics? nothings gonna change, better get used to it.
things change all the time troughout soldat's history
and i know you just wanted to sound cool and logic is not what you care about, but i felt like pointing it out
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On the other side, a part of the community threw more s**t at him than he has ever thrown at it.
That is because there are more of then there is of him, and he betrayed us all. So yeah, throw shit at a group, and that entire group will throw more back.
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On the other side, a part of the community threw more s**t at him than he has ever thrown at it.
Who is going to judice what is "enough" or "too much" to what he has done? If he abuses his position, he shouldn't even have got the position in the first place. And the position should be taken away.
Right now he is doing more harm than any good I say. He could have released 1.5.1 after fixing the most important bugs. The same happened with 1.4.2 -> 1.4.3.
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A mod should change thread title to "Why does EnEsCe suck?" because that's what this thread has been about for 2 pages worth now.
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Right now he is doing more harm than any good I say.
ehm...wtf? maybe wait for 1.5.1 before stateing shit?
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Right now he is doing more harm than any good I say.
ehm...wtf? maybe wait for 1.5.1 before stateing s**t?
Yeah, after that you tell me to wait for 1.5.2?
First of all. He did not release 1.4.3 because he wanted to add sucky features such as exploding heads, lobby chat, radio commands, Teamspeak integration, which benefit basically no one. Instead, the whole community had to suffer from the bugs brought by 1.4.2, along with the map glitches. (The maps were fixed within 48 hours after 1.4.2 came out).
The same is happening now. Deathmatch scoreboard bug really degrades the gameplay. He could have released the 1.5.1 with the stuff he had already fixed. Instead he decided to inform that there will be also new features, postponing the release. What kind of logic is that? If he cared about the game and about the community more than he cares for his own reputation and respect he gets, he would have done it. But meh, "people should learn some respect".
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What are these bugs people always complain about D:
I've only ever witnessed the action-snap glitch.
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What are these bugs people always complain about D:
I've only ever witnessed the action-snap glitch.
If 1 random person reports a "bug" everybody else uses it as an excuse to bitch about Enesce.
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let's forgive the man who has deceived the community not only once, but twice, acted like a retard more than twice and is has now decided to stop caring for the community and work on Soldat as he likes.
Pretty much.
I am speechless. You're actually saying that community should just get used to EnEsCe's attitude, all the s**t he has thrown at the community. How do you think Soldat would go forward, when the man in charge does whatever he pleases without having slighest intention to work with the community? He has already proven that he is not turstworthy person. He has already proven that he is the same ass he was in 2004/2005. No, programming skills won't save him either.
He isn't driven by passion as MM is. He is driven by acceptance and respect. Something he has never felt enough despite all his attempts. Something he should never get from this community, after all the deceiving. What would make him trustworthy after all this s**t?
MM doesn't give a shit what the community thinks about EnEsCe, and I think EnEsCe is starting to not give a shit either. He's not there to make you all happy, he's there to work on Soldat.
So, yes, you should get used to EnEsCe's attitude, because it's not likely anyone else will get on the development team soon (Shoozza, maybe, because he's been helping EnEsCe, but if that was the case, he'd be there by now).
EnEsCe has always been an outcast anyway, so this isn't anything new for him, I think.
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After reading 2 pages of flame and counter-argumentive posts, I feel it is time for me to post, thought it matters little and I'll probably get bitched at for even posting.
At some point, you people are going to realise that whining about EnEsCe really doesn't do, well, anything at all. EnEsCe is going to continue to be the sole developer of soldat, and whatever the community says isn't going to change that. No matter how much you whine about how he screwed up a few times, it's not going to mean anything to him, so why are you still posting crap about him when it wont make a difference? >_>.
It's getting rediculous. Seriously, but that's just my opinion. :|
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At some point, you people are going to realise that whining about EnEsCe really doesn't do, well, anything at all. EnEsCe is going to continue to be the sole developer of soldat, and whatever the community says isn't going to change that. No matter how much you whine about how he screwed up a few times, it's not going to mean anything to him, so why are you still posting crap about him when it wont make a difference? >_>.
My thoughts exactly.
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because i hate ignorance and i care about the game
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What about your ignorance to what split and some other people are saying?
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What about your ignorance to what split and some other people are saying?
What about your ignorance towards the spelling of my name?! D:!
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What about your ignorance towards the spelling of my name?! D:!
Its intentionally.
>:U
The thing is, eC would possibly accept some suggestions, but each time he comes here a shitstorm begins, so what is the only obvious way to prevent the same?
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Oh noes something hit me and I generated a huge post couldn't keep it short - sorry.
I have been trying to get into the dev team for months but I will never be accepted (I will tell you the reason in a minute)
In my opinion here is no sense to talk about adding new devs because EnEsCe doesn't like to see anyone else working on Soldat.
Even if you try to force him to do so it's still up to him and it's his decision, he will do what he wants to do.
Having more then one person workin on soldat may help and at some point there was ChrisGBK working together with EnEsCe on the game or server.
One thing I noticed was that ChrisGBK was doing his work in silence. No one would know it he asked him about it.
I even don't know what and how much exactly he did.
Too many people working on soldat would cause problems.
I noticed not much communication between the current devs and they are very unlikely to change that I think.
But when more devs work on the game this will have to change.
To come back why I will not be in the dev team:
I think EnEsCe doesn't like my style of open development.
He doesn't like the way I keep in touch with other people and keep them up to date.
Here is a quote: "the more you run around saying ANYWHERE that you are doing anything with Soldat's code, the more damage you will be doing. For the developers sake, you need to just go away and take your nose elsewhere and keep it out of my way."
He also believes that I try to replace him take his position or reduce his popularity and therefore doesn't want me to participate:
"you want to steal popularity, you want to make people like you, you want to seem like the hero."
Btw this quote was written when I tried to contribute to Soldat last month.
I don't know how to convince him that this isn't correct.
I already helped him when the ping fraud was about to kick him out of the dev team.
And he was willing to have me in the dev team (before he chatted with MM).
Of course he said this in private and it can't be confirmed that he said that but I told him not to add me to the dev team back then just because of the fact it would look like I would force myself into it by using his bad situation back then (however that's another topic).
Other stuff which came later made him change his mind (information about that I have the source made him very angry I guess).
So currently it looks like I will not get the chance to actively work with EnEsCe currently.
I'm sorry for that and I understand that you just want to ensure Soldat will have a good future but everything I currently do is making EnEsCe angry (I believe even this post will).
The only way to get in the dev team would be if the person is hated by the community and EnEsCe sees that his position is not in danger when he adds this dev.
Obviously I'm not fitting this pattern.
For those who are disappointed now: Wait for the next version, find a way to make EnEsCe know what you dislike and like and don't make him feel uncomfortable in this forums.
I know I know that what I say is "just live with it" but if you cannot accept him there is no reason to stay with Soldat.
I mean he is the only person who is working on the game now and like I told you earlier it's very difficult to convince him.
Maybe he will change his mind, maybe not I don't know.
If you cannot stay with Soldat there is another project which aims to be a similar game but is still in development.
I don't want to advertise it too much since it's too early now.
With this project I actually do what enesce wants me to do I "take [...] [my] nose elsewhere".
Well at least I try since I cannot just leave Soldat alone.
But I slowly try to (even when it's difficult).
Meh I'm talking too much about myself here.
Hope this isn't just a "blah blah" post for you.
Don't just see the bad side try to take a different view not everyone is bad they just see things another way.
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@Shoozza: This post was very interesting and sad at the same time...
Questions:
- What about your code-contribution with "Copying IPs easier"? Will you still send it to MM? And do you think he cares?
- What about the good ideas in "Suggestion Forum" like "New Scoreboard" and "New Player Menu"? It would be a pity if all the dedication the users bring in is for nothing. :-[
Last weeks there were many many great ideas - it's like a punch in the face that most users appreciate and support it but eventually it is for nothing because the sole devoloper doesn't look at it.
And pls don't leave this forum!
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- What about your code-contribution with "Copying IPs easier"? Will you still send it to MM? And do you think he cares?
Well EnEsCe wrote that he already has this implemented.
I would like to see it added since I believe my version is more powerful then his one (I believe that because I put a lot of love into it).
I can send it to MM I don't have much to say if it gets added or not thats up to EnEsCe and maybe MM.
Sad but true. Thats how it is and I don't need to hide it.
- What about the good ideas in "Suggestion Forum" like "New Scoreboard" and "New Player Menu"? It would be a pity if all the dedication the users bring in is for nothing. :-[
Last weeks there were many many great ideas - it's like a punch in the face that most users appreciate and support it but eventually it is for nothing because the sole devoloper doesn't look at it.
EnEsCe posted in the New Scoreboard thread that he will make one (he wrote something like "its time for a new scoreboard").
Indeed I noticed very nice ideas in the improvements section lately hopefully they get their attention on the dev side.
Since I stopped using ICQ there is no contact with EnEsCe (but I doubt he would write anything to me after he told me that he wants to delete me from his list last time).
Even when not added to Soldat they are very inspiriting and might make their way in the other stuff some people and I work on.
And pls don't leave this forum!
I actually wanted to leave the forums a few months ago but since people are (successfully) binding me to this forum by making me mod, pming me questions (ARSSE, etc) and contributing interesting content I guess it will be difficult to leave.
Even if I leave I'm still on IRC.
However it's nice to see that some people want me to stay (damn you binders :P).
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*Works his Arabic magic to bind Shoozza*
Well, you gotta give EnEsCe credit for not having given up on programming after all the shit we put on his name, though...
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Enesce is a piece of sh_t who deserves to be flamed and fu_ked about by a bunch of people who wouldn't be playing the game if not for his time and effort.
f_ck him for not paying attention to people who hate him and insult him!
Force someone else to help him, that'll teach him. Maybe then we can expect changes 1 week earlier, the week, of course, is to substitute for the time they spend arguing about which task is priority over the rest!
Yes, he can easily have someone help him but he would still be "in charge" and decide what goes first. If you want to flame someone, flame MM himself for going inactive and leaving the project to Enesce, knowing full well what type of person enesce is...
EDIT: There we go, evading swear filter. It is not logical to throw power around when people break rules in a thread that should have been locked long ago.
EDIT 2: f_ck fu_kity monkey co_k. I MISS YOU FA||EN, I'LL ALWAYS LOVE YOU.
Fuck you're annoying..
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Actually trying to get something locked like that should be a decent reason for a ban I say. Mods, anyone?
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Actually trying to get something locked like that should be a decent reason for a ban I say. Mods, anyone?
I banned him for 3 days like 10 hours ago. ;)
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Clawbug, shut up. Your useless, I'm not ok. Instead of criticizing everyone else actually contribute in a positive way u senseless prick.
ONTOPIC: Yeah, it would be nice if someone could help EnEsCe, and he can still be "In-Charge".
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the main enesce's problem is how he's doing things as the guy in charge, so i dont really get your point. What i would like to see is someone responsible and reliable in charge of the project, and enesce, Shoozza and other scripters as the people working on the code.
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Clawbug, shut up. Your useless, I'm not ok. Instead of criticizing everyone else actually contribute in a positive way u senseless prick.
ONTOPIC: Yeah, it would be nice if someone could help EnEsCe, and he can still be "In-Charge".
Thanks for the kind words, miss.
What is there to contribute for a community which aknowledges that it is dying, and the people who could change this refuse to do a squat about it? The only hope is Shoozza, and he is actually the only one who has pushed Soldat forward in a positive way during the past few months.
As long as EnEsCe is in charge, there won't be anyone helping him really. A control freak with too much power, we saw how it turned out.
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I think EnEsCe doesn't like my style of open development.
He doesn't like the way I keep in touch with other people and keep them up to date.
Here is a quote: "the more you run around saying ANYWHERE that you are doing anything with Soldat's code, the more damage you will be doing. For the developers sake, you need to just go away and take your nose elsewhere and keep it out of my way."
That is the least component thing I've heard from a software developer ever.
Welp, hopefully Link Dead is good.
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Please make an official Enesce thread, I can't stand the bullshit all over the forums.
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I think EnEsCe doesn't like my style of open development.
He doesn't like the way I keep in touch with other people and keep them up to date.
Here is a quote: "the more you run around saying ANYWHERE that you are doing anything with Soldat's code, the more damage you will be doing. For the developers sake, you need to just go away and take your nose elsewhere and keep it out of my way."
That is the least component thing I've heard from a software developer ever.
Welp, hopefully Link Dead is good.
Link-Dead and Soldat are completely different gameplay wise, I'd most likely play soldat over link-dead like I have with many games. Even if "soldat dies" there is still a community left behind who are willing to do something.
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I think EnEsCe doesn't like my style of open development.
He doesn't like the way I keep in touch with other people and keep them up to date.
Here is a quote: "the more you run around saying ANYWHERE that you are doing anything with Soldat's code, the more damage you will be doing. For the developers sake, you need to just go away and take your nose elsewhere and keep it out of my way."
That is the least component thing I've heard from a software developer ever.
Welp, hopefully Link Dead is good.
Link-Dead and Soldat are completely different gameplay wise, I'd most likely play soldat over link-dead like I have with many games. Even if "soldat dies" there is still a community left behind who are willing to do something.
Judging a game before it's released is uh
Well it's a thing
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Many people play Soldat because the gameplay is so fast. MM himself has said that the gameplay in Link-Dead will not be as fast as in Soldat.
+1 for staying with Soldat. As far as I'm concerned LD will never become as cool as Soldat.
::) @ below.
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Ima quite sure that neither MM(ofc) or the EnEsCe have not played soldat in their whole lifetime, else they would already be completely tired of "eats" "nade/knife invis" "warps" and several other bugs and would have fixed the netcode to make Soldat a decent game to play online as DotA(wc3); Counter-Strike and other titles.
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Since when is CS a decent game? You die too fast, you have to wait a whole lot to respawn, just be killed right after 5 seconds, by some 12 year old hacker...
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CS is a decent game, doest matter what you think about.
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CS is a decent game, doest matter what you think about.
Well its not a decent game on this forums.
this game is mostly played by people who preffer soldat over cs ^__^ .
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Since when is CS a decent game? You die too fast, you have to wait a whole lot to respawn, just be killed right after 5 seconds, by some 12 year old hacker...
...Isn't that exactly what R/S community is doing in Soldat?
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Clawbug please, forget I ever posted that...And don't go to other subjects.
@Biohazard; and why the heck doesn't it matter what I think? Just wanted to know.
Back on topic; Since this isn't gonna get us anywhere I suggest one of the people for more admins should take it up to Enesce or MM.
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@demoniac93
CS is a well known game, played in lots of league with some nice prizes, in the past more, but its still in competitive scene. Anyway, the last time i played CS were 7 years ago.
"Doenst matter what you think" i mean that even if you dislike the game, its played by rly pro players that used to gain some money with that.
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"Doenst matter what you think" i mean that even if you dislike the game, its played by rly pro players that used to gain some money with that.
i mean that even if you dislike football, its played by rly pro players that used to gain some money with that.
So what? Why does it matter? CS is indeed a popular game, but that's mostly because the people behind it have spent so much money to make it grow. I got bored of the whole game because it's always the same, but this is only my opinion. One might say the same thing about Soldat.
I find people who earn their living by playing computer games rather pathetic.
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Whatever you all say, Soldat will NEVER get as good as CS. Jeez Soldat is out of it's league in fact. Comparing these 2 games together is just rather pathetic. Anyways, please get back on topic...CS has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.
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Whatever you all say, Soldat will NEVER get as good as CS. Jeez Soldat is out of it's league in fact. Comparing these 2 games together is just rather pathetic. Anyways, please get back on topic...CS has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.
I don't think comparing Soldat to CS is not so much pathetic as it is comparing apples to oranges... Really, you can't compare Soldat to FPS's.
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I've got question. Since CS is FPS (First Person Shooter), how we should call soldat then? SVS (Side View Shooter) ?? (;
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I've got question. Since CS is FPS (First Person Shooter), how we should call soldat then? SVS (Side View Shooter) ?? (;
Technically, yeah. Soldat is a 2D Multiplayer Side View Shooter.
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Look at the graphics, gameplay and quality, no way to compare. Why are we still on about it...
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You have a point there, upgrade the graphics
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Look at the graphics, gameplay and quality, no way to compare. Why are we still on about it...
it's 2d, retro, old-school as such graphics. I don't play soldat cause of its graphics..
Soldat has the best fast pace-action game play I've played. That's why i like the game play, it's simple, easy to play, but at the same time is fun and addicting
CS isn't as original, and is just another boring fps. But that's my opinion.
Whatever you all say, Soldat will NEVER get as good as CS. Jeez Soldat is out of it's league in fact. Comparing these 2 games together is just rather pathetic. Anyways, please get back on topic...CS has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.
I don't think comparing Soldat to CS is not so much pathetic as it is comparing apples to oranges... Really, you can't compare Soldat to FPS's.
Read that scar face and you'll perhaps understand.
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Poll is added to either whether YOU think there should be more developers for Soldat. Also, if you would like please give some advice or indication onto who YOU would like working and producing the new Soldat versions.
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Who? Someone who:
- First and foremost develops the game for the gamers and for their needs.
- Can develop the game actively and release multiple versions per year
- Is willing to solely fix the bugs and is able to write even somewhat bug free code with the current Soldat code base
- Is willing to listen to the community, is part of the community and understands the needs of the community
- Is not a complete jerk as a person, is trustworthy and believes that sharing is caring.
But really, all I am asking for is ACTIVITY. Get something done and RELEASE. Needs fixes? FIX and then RELEASE again. Simple as that.
Edit: See the change log of pre 1.2 Soldat and you know what I mean.
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But really, all I am asking for is ACTIVITY. Get something done and RELEASE. Needs fixes? FIX and then RELEASE again. Simple as that.
Edit: See the change log of pre 1.2 Soldat and you know what I mean.
Well, who are the current Soldat developers? The two obvious ones, EnEsCe and MM (kinda), and then you've got Shoozza and ChrisGBK. We're uncertain if either of them are doing anything at all, and a while back EH said something like Shoozza already has the sauce code, but eC won't let him use it etc.
Regardless, the Soldat developers all need to sit down, have a talk, and decide who does what and discuss the possibility of admitting another developer into the mix.
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but.. who cares? soldat will die as soon as openSoldat comes out, soldat is too poorly coded from start in a too weak language.
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but.. who cares? soldat will die as soon as openSoldat comes out, soldat is too poorly coded from start in a too weak language.
Nothing you just said is 100% true.
1) but.. who cares? - if we didn't care, this thread wouldn't be here
2) soldat will die as soon as openSoldat comes out - no, it won't. there will remain a loyal following. And that's assuming openSoldat does eventually come out, which I'm not entirely confident on.
3) soldat is too poorly coded from start in a too weak language. - delphi isn't weak, even though Soldat could have been written better.
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oS will be on par with Soldat in about three years.
I'm with Clawbug here, as I have always been.
@below: it's like 150 people who browse these forums... You should honestly try thinking outside the box.
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but.. who cares? soldat will die as soon as openSoldat comes out, soldat is too poorly coded from start in a too weak language.
Nothing you just said is 100% true.
1) but.. who cares? - if we didn't care, this thread wouldn't be here
2) soldat will die as soon as openSoldat comes out - no, it won't. there will remain a loyal following. And that's assuming openSoldat does eventually come out, which I'm not entirely confident on.
3) soldat is too poorly coded from start in a too weak language. - delphi isn't weak, even though Soldat could have been written better.
it's like 5 people who write in this topic...
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But really, all I am asking for is ACTIVITY. Get something done and RELEASE. Needs fixes? FIX and then RELEASE again. Simple as that.
Edit: See the change log of pre 1.2 Soldat and you know what I mean.
Well, who are the current Soldat developers? The two obvious ones, EnEsCe and MM (kinda), and then you've got Shoozza and ChrisGBK. We're uncertain if either of them are doing anything at all, and a while back EH said something like Shoozza already has the sauce code, but eC won't let him use it etc.
Regardless, the Soldat developers all need to sit down, have a talk, and decide who does what and discuss the possibility of admitting another developer into the mix.
Another developer isn't going to do anything when the entire development dynamic is shot based on what Shoozza posted. Soldat should just be open-sourced. The only thing MM loses is registration monies unless he's willing to shell out for an authentication server.
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but.. who cares? soldat will die as soon as openSoldat comes out, soldat is too poorly coded from start in a too weak language.
Even though Counter-Strike: Source came out (quite a long time ago too) there are still people who play original Counter-Strike. That's just one example. And there's still a very long way before oS reaches same level as Soldat, so I wouldn't count on that too much.
I'm sure that having 2-3 people working on the game won't hurt. Sure at first it might be hard to work as a team. However that's not the reason to not try to overcome that, not the reason to leave things as they are now. I'm sure things can get organized if everyone works towards that.
NSC just needs to accept that his point of view isn't the only one that matters, and stop seeing everyone as his enemies who just want to get rid of him.
Though I honestly doubt that it'll ever happen.
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it's like 5 people who write in this topic...
Yes, we all came to understand how you believe there's no point to any of this a few pages back.
Three options: 1) Stop posting since you don't care. 2) Take an interest and say something useful. 3) Continue prattling on about how nothing matters and how you want to see less topics like this and get a warning.
Your choice.
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ok then... only 1 developer! because! more developers on a messy code, might not end up too well. happy?~
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ok then... only 1 developer! because! more developers on a messy code, might not end up too well. happy?~
*joins the gang bang*
Not well - how and why? More specific plox?
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will be messed up, since eC can berly work with the code, just think about how messy it would be with 3 more people trying to figure out how it works and to not ruin the game while they try to develop it.
either it's a recode, or it's a 1 man team.
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I don't think that MM or EnEsCe wants soldat open sourse and so i do not want it to be like that.
Because Os will ruin soldat because after a short period no one will work on it NO MORE.
New dev like shoozza or any other=Open sourse of soldat
offtopic: -major- open irc! i know you read this >__<
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If you can't code in a team you're a terrible, terrible programmer. There's no reason to limit it to 1 developer.
I don't think that MM or EnEsCe wants soldat open sourse and so i do not want it to be like that.
Because Os will ruin soldat because after a short period no one will work on it NO MORE.
Based on what, your imagination?
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If there's a problem with a code - 3 people can look at it from 3 different points of view, share their own experience and come up with a solution much easier. (that, by the way, is what's going on with oS development, and I find it very effective. We were able to find solutions to many different questions.)
One dev might be able to act a bit faster because he doesn't need to worry about teamwork, but he has a much higher chance of making a mistake, not finding the most efficient solution to the problem, etc.
Because Os will ruin soldat because after a short period no one will work on it NO MORE.
New dev like shoozza or any other=Open sourse of soldat
Why would that be? You can never know for sure.
edit: well, Veritas said it already. :D
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If you can't code in a team you're a terrible, terrible programmer. There's no reason to limit it to 1 developer.
I don't think that MM or EnEsCe wants soldat open sourse and so i do not want it to be like that.
Because Os will ruin soldat because after a short period no one will work on it NO MORE.
Based on what, your imagination?
Hmmmm no more reg keys? no more money?everyone will do what ever they want with the game? and some other lame stuff that will just hurt the game.
Hows that for imagination?
Go to 4chan/b/ and become smarter. ^___^
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Hmmmm no more reg keys? no more money?everyone will do what ever they want with the game? and some other lame stuff that will just hurt the game.
Hows that for imagination?
Go to 4chan/b/ and become smarter. ^___^
Well, if MM doesn't want it open source - that doesn't mean only 1 person should be working on it. Multiple devs doesn't necessarily mean that Soldat will have to be open source.
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If you can't code in a team you're a terrible, terrible programmer. There's no reason to limit it to 1 developer.
I don't think that MM or EnEsCe wants soldat open sourse and so i do not want it to be like that.
Because Os will ruin soldat because after a short period no one will work on it NO MORE.
Based on what, your imagination?
considering ET is barely runnable on windows7, soldat might not work on final release of windows7.
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If you can't code in a team you're a terrible, terrible programmer. There's no reason to limit it to 1 developer.
I don't think that MM or EnEsCe wants soldat open sourse and so i do not want it to be like that.
Because Os will ruin soldat because after a short period no one will work on it NO MORE.
Based on what, your imagination?
Hmmmm no more reg keys? no more money?everyone will do what ever they want with the game? and some other lame stuff that will just hurt the game.
Hows that for imagination?
It's a pretty good imagination, because none of it is true. You can still have an authentication scheme in open source software. You also don't seem to understand that open-source software has a core development team, so it's not like any random change that someone wants to make ends up in the software itself.
Go to 4chan/b/ and become smarter. ^___^
Lurk more.
If you can't code in a team you're a terrible, terrible programmer. There's no reason to limit it to 1 developer.
I don't think that MM or EnEsCe wants soldat open sourse and so i do not want it to be like that.
Because Os will ruin soldat because after a short period no one will work on it NO MORE.
Based on what, your imagination?
considering ET is barely runnable on windows7, soldat might not work on final release of windows7.
What does that have to do with anything?
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ET is old game, new windows doesn't support it's way of compiling or doesn't support the language.
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ET is old game, new windows doesn't support it's way of compiling or doesn't support the language.
What is ET and what does it have to do with having multiple people developing Soldat? :/
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Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory afaik.
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I like the vote result, lol xD
Yes - 18 (ftw!)
No - 1
Idk - 1
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I think vote was a bad idea anyway. A question like this isn't supposed to be answered simply by voting.
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It shows what the majority of people think...obviously it does if everybody is trying to state their point about the same thing everybody else wants...
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The thing is, that these days people want more than Soldat can offer. And meaning of Soldat varies alot between different players.
If I could choose, remove scripting, remove all the useless garbage and bring back the Soldat from 2004-2006. Fix the bugs and keep up with BatllEye, provide more bug fixes and update the weapon mod. Thats it. Everything else is just USELESS for me. Ever since, Soldat has been in a downhill in my opinion.
Of course, nowadays there are TONS and TONS people out there who play and stick to this game because of the modding ability. And people who play the game as such.
Things change.
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If you can't code in a team you're a terrible, terrible programmer. There's no reason to limit it to 1 developer.
I don't think that MM or EnEsCe wants soldat open sourse and so i do not want it to be like that.
Because Os will ruin soldat because after a short period no one will work on it NO MORE.
Based on what, your imagination?
considering ET is barely runnable on windows7, soldat might not work on final release of windows7.
Soldat works on the final version of Windows 7.
I played it.
Had around 300 fps dunno exactly since it was a week or so ago and I'm not using my PC right now.
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It shows what the majority of people think...obviously it does if everybody is trying to state their point about the same thing everybody else wants...
But what if most people who voted are just computer newbs who only use PC to play games and know absolutely nothing about game development? Any random person who has no idea about the current situation can just come and vote.
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It shows what the majority of people think...obviously it does if everybody is trying to state their point about the same thing everybody else wants...
But what if most people who voted are just computer newbs who only use PC to play games and know absolutely nothing about game development? Any random person who has no idea about the current situation can just come and vote.
+anyone who doesn't like enesce(as a person) will vote yes.
Not anyone can develop soldat, the code is rather messy.
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It shows what the majority of people think...obviously it does if everybody is trying to state their point about the same thing everybody else wants...
But what if most people who voted are just computer newbs who only use PC to play games and know absolutely nothing about game development? Any random person who has no idea about the current situation can just come and vote.
+anyone who doesn't like enesce(as a person) will vote yes.
Not anyone can develop soldat, the code is rather messy.
this just shows how brain washed you are by enesce. You haven't seen the code and you propably don't know this much about it to claim the things you just did. How do you know few other good scripters from this community wouldn't handle it? And yes, the personality matters, you just had an example when he did that ping fraud and later banned people discussing about it.
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the code is messy, that's what eC is whining about. it's hard for more than 1 to code something that is poorly coded.
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Whatever you all say, Soldat will NEVER get as good as CS. Jeez Soldat is out of it's league in fact. Comparing these 2 games together is just rather pathetic. Anyways, please get back on topic...CS has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.
I'm saying about the game itself bugs, mostly caused by the poor coded net support. Just go out there and ask ppl... or just play it online, you will check yourself the lot of annoying bugs.
I rly never played CS alot, dont even like it anymore...
I dont remember which version i started playing, but it were b4 mm created backflip and stuff. I rly like Soldat, but its annoying as hell to play online, sometimes lag bugs > skills instead of luck > skills.
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the code is messy, that's what eC is whining about. it's hard for more than 1 to code something that is poorly coded.
No it isn't, what are you on? Have you people never heard of teamwork?
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the code is messy, that's what eC is whining about. it's hard for more than 1 to code something that is poorly coded.
If something is really badly written it takes a team of people to deal with it, since only one person would likely give up and just say "f**k it" which is what eC and MM are probably doing.
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the code is messy, that's what eC is whining about. it's hard for more than 1 to code something that is poorly coded.
No it isn't, what are you on? Have you people never heard of teamwork?
have you EVER coded before? no? then STFU
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the code is messy, that's what eC is whining about. it's hard for more than 1 to code something that is poorly coded.
No it isn't, what are you on? Have you people never heard of teamwork?
have you EVER coded before? no? then STFU
have you EVER tried working in a team? no?
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the code is messy, that's what eC is whining about. it's hard for more than 1 to code something that is poorly coded.
No it isn't, what are you on? Have you people never heard of teamwork?
have you EVER coded before? no? then STFU
have you EVER tried working in a team? no?
yes, that's even required from you ins school.
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Major, Loner, cool it. Let's not turn this thread into even more of a flamewar. ::)
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Consider things cooled. He gets to STFU for a bit.
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Eh.. as much as I disagree with -major-, I don't think his comments were that much against the rules (even though expressed not in the best of ways).
on topic: Like I said, if everyone works towards learning to cooperate well, a good teamwork can be achieved whether the code is messy or not. The problem is not in difficulty of cooperation, but in the fact that NSC doesn't want to cooperate.
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Personally, I don't care about his opinion. If he can't explain his stance beyond "STFU" in this section of the forum, after being told to shape up and focus, then it's no surprise he got whacked for a bit.
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Eh, no one's discussing your point Geo, nor will I, let's just get back on topic;
How messy is the code to be more exact? How many bugs to lines of code are we talking here? (When the first official soldat release was out)
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If the code really is that messy, theres a thing to do: structurize and organize it better, rewrite the most messiest parts and try to get it into a proper shape.
For a developer this is quite a pain to do as it can bring in bugs, break different parts of the application and well and usually is very boring. However, they can(and usually do) in turn address some awkward bugs, provide deeper understanding of the underlying workings of the codebase and make the code much easier to work with in the future.
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If the code really is that messy, theres a thing to do: structurize and organize it better, rewrite the most messiest parts and try to get it into a proper shape.
Which would require a huge amount of time and an extensive knowledge of the code that only MM probably has.
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If the code really is that messy, theres a thing to do: structurize and organize it better, rewrite the most messiest parts and try to get it into a proper shape.
Which would require a huge amount of time and an extensive knowledge of the code that only MM probably has.
Which is why you open source it, so you can have a large number of people look at the code instead of one.
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The thing is, that these days people want more than Soldat can offer. And meaning of Soldat varies alot between different players.
If I could choose, remove scripting, remove all the useless garbage and bring back the Soldat from 2004-2006. Fix the bugs and keep up with BatllEye, provide more bug fixes and update the weapon mod. Thats it.
Man, Clawbug, I couldn't agree with you more. I love moddability as well and I love neat things like animated sceneries. However I do miss Soldat from that era. Then again all I ever did was play CTF on pubs for hours on end. For newer game modes I also like Trenchwars - but it's one of those things that only a certain few like.
All in all, other than perhaps clean up code and kill bugs, I think Soldat is good where it's at or get rid of unused or little used features and revert it back to the way it was intended. It does not have to be any more advanced beyond this point. Otherwise, then yes, it's not going to be Soldat anymore.
Which is why you open source it, so you can have a large number of people look at the code instead of one.
Good point, but the problem is trust. Source code in the wrong hands, makes for a major headache for the rest of us. Remember what happened with the Quake games, when their source code was released?
I wouldn't mind though if Enesce, Michal and whoever else was currently working on Soldat - to share the source with other trusted members of the community, such as long time beta testers (those that can program). Within this community, there's got to be quite the number of experienced programmers. Plus, if you're a true Soldat fan, you probably wish you could work on Soldat.
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Which is why you open source it, so you can have a large number of people look at the code instead of one.
Good point, but the problem is trust. Source code in the wrong hands, makes for a major headache for the rest of us. Remember what happened with the Quake games, when their source code was released?
I wouldn't mind though if Enesce, Michal and whoever else was currently working on Soldat - to share the source with other trusted members of the community, such as long time beta testers (those that can program). Within this community, there's got to be quite the number of experienced programmers. Plus, if you're a true Soldat fan, you probably wish you could work on Soldat.
I don't know what happened with the Quake games, enlighten me.
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Which is why you open source it, so you can have a large number of people look at the code instead of one.
Good point, but the problem is trust. Source code in the wrong hands, makes for a major headache for the rest of us. Remember what happened with the Quake games, when their source code was released?
I wouldn't mind though if Enesce, Michal and whoever else was currently working on Soldat - to share the source with other trusted members of the community, such as long time beta testers (those that can program). Within this community, there's got to be quite the number of experienced programmers. Plus, if you're a true Soldat fan, you probably wish you could work on Soldat.
I don't know what happened with the Quake games, enlighten me.
Lately it's become debatable... yay me for keeping up with facts and stories, but supposedly, one of the reasons why online multiplayer for the quake games - namely Q1 and Q2 dwindled to almost nothing was because of rampant cheating. When the source was released - the servers became flooded with cheats shortly after. Now this is being debated and there are even programmers who are saying that the games would have been better open-source from the beginning as then the ability for cheating could have been better circumvented. I won't get into that.
Fact or fiction of the Quake source aside, if Soldat was open-source, would that make it easier for hackers to make cheats, hacks and whatever else that could be undetectable by BE or any other preventative measure? Of course, if it was open-source, then perhaps, those working on the code could implement many preventative measures.
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Which is why you open source it, so you can have a large number of people look at the code instead of one.
Good point, but the problem is trust. Source code in the wrong hands, makes for a major headache for the rest of us. Remember what happened with the Quake games, when their source code was released?
I wouldn't mind though if Enesce, Michal and whoever else was currently working on Soldat - to share the source with other trusted members of the community, such as long time beta testers (those that can program). Within this community, there's got to be quite the number of experienced programmers. Plus, if you're a true Soldat fan, you probably wish you could work on Soldat.
I don't know what happened with the Quake games, enlighten me.
Lately it's become debatable... yay me for keeping up with facts and stories, but supposedly, one of the reasons why online multiplayer for the quake games - namely Q1 and Q2 dwindled to almost nothing was because of rampant cheating. When the source was released - the servers became flooded with cheats shortly after. Now this is being debated and there are even programmers who are saying that the games would have been better open-source from the beginning as then the ability for cheating could have been better circumvented. I won't get into that.
Fact or fiction of the Quake source aside, if Soldat was open-source, would that make it easier for hackers to make cheats, hacks and whatever else that could be undetectable by BE or any other preventative measure? Of course, if it was open-source, then perhaps, those working on the code could implement many preventative measures.
The source being opened does make it easier to develop cheats, but as you said, it also allows more people to develop anti-hack measures.
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Which is why you open source it, so you can have a large number of people look at the code instead of one.
Good point, but the problem is trust. Source code in the wrong hands, makes for a major headache for the rest of us. Remember what happened with the Quake games, when their source code was released?
I wouldn't mind though if Enesce, Michal and whoever else was currently working on Soldat - to share the source with other trusted members of the community, such as long time beta testers (those that can program). Within this community, there's got to be quite the number of experienced programmers. Plus, if you're a true Soldat fan, you probably wish you could work on Soldat.
I don't know what happened with the Quake games, enlighten me.
Lately it's become debatable... yay me for keeping up with facts and stories, but supposedly, one of the reasons why online multiplayer for the quake games - namely Q1 and Q2 dwindled to almost nothing was because of rampant cheating. When the source was released - the servers became flooded with cheats shortly after. Now this is being debated and there are even programmers who are saying that the games would have been better open-source from the beginning as then the ability for cheating could have been better circumvented. I won't get into that.
Fact or fiction of the Quake source aside, if Soldat was open-source, would that make it easier for hackers to make cheats, hacks and whatever else that could be undetectable by BE or any other preventative measure? Of course, if it was open-source, then perhaps, those working on the code could implement many preventative measures.
Consider for a sec, Linux, OpenBSD (http://www.openbsd.org/) especially. They're 100% open source from the beginning and almost never get hacked. Compare that to Windows which gets hacked constantly.
Statistically speaking, open source software is less likely to get hacked and screwed with as you've got many, many more eyes (some malicious, some not) on the code.
Yeah, if you open source Soldat right now, all sorts of s**t'll spring up immediately. But after several months of work, they'll start dying down.
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The analogy of OS being hacked is somewhat skewed though, it's easy to trick Windows users due to their average ignorace hence even simplest of malicious software can be "profitable", meaning that it's very easy to "start out" with writing malicious software. Also Windows supplies tools with WinAPI. Practically impossible to base an opinion on such a comparison.
However, opening Soldat's source would have both good and bad effects. First of all, it would spring up so-called forks, when someone takes the source and modifies it and releases it as an another game. Multiple similar forks of same software just disort the market, lose-lose for everybody. Second, possibly more progress and faster progress with the development. Third most likely increased cheating.
Opening Soldat's source would not be an option in my opinion. I see that the future of Soldat is in it's players, this community and EnEsCe. Community tells what they want to see, and EnEsCe tries to implement it. Thats it. But then again, if only things were that easy.
If the code really is that messy, theres a thing to do: structurize and organize it better, rewrite the most messiest parts and try to get it into a proper shape.
Which would require a huge amount of time and an extensive knowledge of the code that only MM probably has.
Start simple. If something is hard to understand then work trough the code piece by piece until there is basic understanding. Then start implementing it in a possibly better way. Finally replace the old code with own code which is more readable and makes more sense.
No, no code is "unreadable" from a programmers perspective, and I am sure EnEsCe is skilled enough to understand most of the code. I've got to say he is not a beginner with it.
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The analogy of OS being hacked is somewhat skewed though, it's easy to trick Windows users due to their average ignorace hence even simplest of malicious software can be "profitable", meaning that it's very easy to "start out" with writing malicious software. Also Windows supplies tools with WinAPI. Practically impossible to base an opinion on such a comparison.
...are you saying there isn't an API for the Linux kernal? Because you would be incredibly wrong.
First of all, it would spring up so-called forks, when someone takes the source and modifies it and releases it as an another game. Multiple similar forks of same software just disort the market, lose-lose for everybody.
Not if the developers in control of the main branch are competent.
Third most likely increased cheating.
Only initially.
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I want all the people in the world
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That could potentially worsen Soldat.
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The analogy of OS being hacked is somewhat skewed though, it's easy to trick Windows users due to their average ignorace hence even simplest of malicious software can be "profitable", meaning that it's very easy to "start out" with writing malicious software. Also Windows supplies tools with WinAPI. Practically impossible to base an opinion on such a comparison.
...are you saying there isn't an API for the Linux kernal? Because you would be incredibly wrong.
Well, with Linux/BSD there isn't really a centralized API that does everything (eg: widgets, graphics, sound, everything-in-one), like the WinAPI. Instead there are several smaller ones to pick from, and when you stick them together you get a working app.
(the actual specific Linux Kernel API is pretty much just for including hardware drivers)
That could potentially worsen Soldat.
That's only if you get a load of forks.
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I want all the people in the world
Quote speaks for itself...doesn't it?
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The analogy of OS being hacked is somewhat skewed though, it's easy to trick Windows users due to their average ignorace hence even simplest of malicious software can be "profitable", meaning that it's very easy to "start out" with writing malicious software. Also Windows supplies tools with WinAPI. Practically impossible to base an opinion on such a comparison.
...are you saying there isn't an API for the Linux kernal? Because you would be incredibly wrong.
Well, with Linux/BSD there isn't really a centralized API that does everything (eg: widgets, graphics, sound, everything-in-one), like the WinAPI. Instead there are several smaller ones to pick from, and when you stick them together you get a working app.
(the actual specific Linux Kernel API is pretty much just for including hardware drivers)
This. Let's just say that the WinAPI provides some very decent tools to write malware, for example giving access to process'es memory space, something unix-based systems do not provide due to their nature.
However let's move forward.
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soldat died a long time ago. why is it so many people still go on about it
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soldat died a long time ago. why is it so many people still go on about it
Why? When?
It may be true that the community started to decay a while back, but the actual game itself?
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if so many people goes on about it it's not dead...
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Number of new people on the forums and posts per month have been going downhill for last 18 months.
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Daily visitor's history for forums.soldat.pl
(http://www1.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP412197hgcd81f29h0gg00002e2f22547c46i92c?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=56)
(http://www1.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP397197hgcd7d831e9c9000042h58ffg33h2ghi3?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=56)
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http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/soldat.pl
During the past 2 years there has been only downhill. Soldat indeed is dying.
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Sez you. I promised I would play it till I was 90 (if I live that long). Perhaps, we do need to get rid of the extra crap in Soldat and play a version reminiscent of how it originally was. Mebbe we should resurrect 1.2.1 - and just fix the bugs in that version. :D
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Sez you. I promised I would play it till I was 90 (if I live that long). Perhaps, we do need to get rid of the extra crap in Soldat and play a version reminiscent of how it originally was. Mebbe we should resurrect 1.2.1 - and just fix the bugs in that version. :D
Or just download Soldat v1.2.1 and its dedicated server and set them up and play them instead. :P
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Which brings me back to my first point.
Things get old and die. If less people continue playing Soldat, that's because there's newer, fresher games for them to play. Without making an entire new game (which is what MM is doing), there's not much you can really do.
Of course, Soldat won't die overnight, but it is growing old, and there's not much we can do to stop the slow decay of it's fanbase. You'll get less people joining in on the fun because there are newer, fancier games to play, and more people leaving for the same reason.
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Another thing is that a lot of soldat's old members and fans joined the community at a fairly young age and are now growing up, which is a huge distraction.
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Yeah, sucks when times change, but the thing is, Soldat is over 7 years old... for a non-mainstream game to last that long with a strong fan-base is pretty impressive. Also, I too play all the new fancy games that come out, but there is still very little that compares to the action and community of Soldat. I mean I love Quake games, so I've been on Quakelive from time to time. Legions is pretty good too, since it's tribes-like. I always keep coming back to Soldat.. and I'm just a pubby. Soldat just has a certain appeal and I love the challenge of trying to beat seasoned players. It's also a game where skill is more than just how well you aim or camp such as in a lot of FPS shooters. If you can maneuver well, not only can you dodge moderate to heavy fire sometimes, but it also looks fucking cool. Just tonight I did this neat little flip over someone as they were firing wildly at me. It was kind of like what you see (though rarely) in a soccer game where a player flips over another player in a single backwards flip and lands on their feet again. It wasn't anything special, but just the way it looked was cool and once in a blue moon... too bad I keep forgetting to record demos.
I've written about the gaming scene many times. One thing that is apparent these days is that developers are releasing a lot of eye-candy, to the point the market is again saturated to the max, but most of the games either lack what gamers want or become a novelty for a few months and then forgotten. A lot of games are also packaged and sold as-is with little to no future updates. The gems do shine, but sometimes it takes a while for them to be found in the loads of crap published for nothing but money. Speaking of saturation, it seems like most developers these days see themselves releasing the next Half-Life or Halo. I don't know how many times I've seen an interview with some developer from some big company... "Oh yeah, we expect to see millions in our servers by next fall. Our game just totally rocks." Next fall comes around and there are a few hundred in their servers - mostly noobs who unwittingly bought their crappy piece of shit and poking around on the servers to see how many people are playing. The more and more multiplayer games there are, the less players will be playing those games as there are only so many to play all these games. .. Before I go on a rant here, I see Soldat as being one of those gems. Old players and veterans are growing up, moving on, dealing with responsibilities and so play less and less Soldat. Nothing wrong with that, you can't stop time... well until CERN starts up in December 2012. Soldat does need new players. I think it's time to get back to getting a good trailer put together. As much as Soldat is popular, the majority still do not know about the game or haven't seen enough to really know how fun and awesome this game can be. The only time Soldat is in magazines is when there are articles about freebie games. You see this little obscure fraction of a screenshot - which says NOTHING of what the game is like. Description always reads: A fun little sidescrolling multiplayer action game. That description is then tacked on to 400 other "fun little sidescrolling.." games. I've shown the game to friends, but they've never watched me or say someone whos good or pro play. I always get, "oh neat site. The game looks kind of crappy though, the graphics are so grainy and pixelated... I might try it later." I say, "No. Just trust me. Download it and try it out." They do, but no one on servers and they get bored of getting killed quick and often. Unlike an FPS, Soldat of course is not a game you can just jump into and play - and be good.
If we can all commit a little bit - even if just demos for the time being and plan and make a trailer, this game will go back to glorious. We have to show potential Soldateers out there WHY they should play this game above the latest multimillion dollar eye-candy crap, why it's fun, awesome and has been awesome for 7 years. Screw the stupid contest or any new contests for making a trailer. There are enough here with enough video editing skills, not to mention artistic as well. Collaboration is also good for the community.
This post should actually go into the "Soldat is dying, how to revive it" thread but it's applicable here as well.
And,
Or just download Soldat v1.2.1 and its dedicated server and set them up and play them instead. :P
thought someone would say something like that. :P hehe. To tell you the truth, I like the current version of Soldat, but I will agree that anything that is of no use in the game doesn't need to be there. All I just want is to see full servers again, more trick/stunt/pwning videos and more players excited to play the game.
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Soldat is indeed going very much downhill according to that graph if you set it onto Max. Oh my, what will happen in the near future, maybe it will go up when the new version comes out with all the fixed bugs and stuff. But I hope it won't be too late when all the people just start to gradually disappear.
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There is only one way to revive Soldat. And your not going to like it, but facts are facts.
Release it as an Indie game or Arcade game for Xbox 360.
I hear MM saying he doesn't want to charge people for his game yea? Well he doesn't seem to mind taking donations when you boot the game up now does he?
Xbox LIVE has more than 12,000,000 Gold members and counting. I'm sure there is money to be made from a great game such as soldat.
Not just Xbox LIVE but also on PSN.
I like soldat, i'v been a member for a long time (Under a few other forums names) but let's get real here people.
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blah blah
You made my day!
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As if that'll help...
Capt'n Obvious hints that the graphs follow a similar pattern.
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There is only one way to revive Soldat. And your not going to like it, but facts are facts.
Release it as an Indie game or Arcade game for Xbox 360.
I hear MM saying he doesn't want to charge people for his game yea? Well he doesn't seem to mind taking donations when you boot the game up now does he?
Xbox LIVE has more than 12,000,000 Gold members and counting. I'm sure there is money to be made from a great game such as soldat.
Not just Xbox LIVE but also on PSN.
I like soldat, i'v been a member for a long time (Under a few other forums names) but let's get real here people.
That will never happen and it's on the DO NOT SUGGEST list for a reason
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Don't worry guys!
Soldat wont die because i will play it until I die ^__^
PS: HOORAY!! I'm back from my long 60 day ban! w00t!
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If the Xbox had native mouse support, then it might be something to think about. What gets me, is that there are ways to make a Soldat-like game with physics, but either with limited aiming or hell even auto aiming - where you'd have to rely on maneuverability - which would be perfect for a console and yet I see so few and none are successful. Xbox live arcade and indie sections are almost a joke. There are some good games there but the numbers are dismal. The odd game like BF1943, Braid, etc have done quite decently.
The only way you could port soldat to a console type platform has or is capable of native mouse and keyboard support. I'm looking forward to the open-Pandora project. It's screen is too small I think for Soldat, but it does have vga/video out and usb ports for mouse and keyboard. So in such a case you could have Soldat on the go (besides on a laptop) and even be able to play it on the small screen, but you still would need full size keys - one of those palm sized gaming keypads and a decent mouse. All in all, it would be best to use a laptop anyway.
If there was truly a way to play Soldat with a handheld controller, then I would be all for porting to consoles. However, twiddling your thumbs to aim is so pointless, you may as well just walk around and stare at the map and scenery.
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Soldat on ANYTHING than x86-based machines(i.e. PCs only) will be impossible without complete rewrite due to technical restrictions.
No go. No MM or EnEsCe can do anything about it. Impossible. Period.
And Pandora is ARM-based.
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Oh really? I thought Pandora was winxp capable. Isn't it running Linux atm. I'll have to go back to the site and check, it's been a while. Oh well, no loss anyway. If you want to run Soldat on something portable, I think the asus EEE laptops can run winxp and therefore should run Soldat. Anyway, don't want to get off topic.
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Pandora is not xp compatible as xp is only available in x86 or x64, not ARM.
And I doubt the eee has the power necessary to run recent versions of Soldat. (under xp or otherwise)
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And I doubt the eee has the power necessary to run recent versions of Soldat. (under xp or otherwise)
Easily. :)
Well, old 701 might have some problems, the newer ones with faster CPU will handle the game with ease.