Official Soldat Forums

Soldat Talk => Game Improvements / Suggestions => Topic started by: -Major- on April 05, 2010, 09:15:22 am

Title: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 05, 2010, 09:15:22 am
make it possible to pick up weapons that lay on the ground, I think the 25% chance to pick up weapon is a stupid perk, or extremely poor coding.
either way, fix it.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Swompie on April 05, 2010, 09:16:55 am
Theres a chance you can pick up weapons!?
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 05, 2010, 09:17:53 am
Theres a chance you can pick up weapons!?
because of the poor coding, there's a random chance you get to pick up the weapon or not.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Swompie on April 05, 2010, 09:35:41 am
How stupid.. Even though theres still a bug which sometimes occur and doesn't let you pick up weapons, has that to do with that poor coding, too?
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: L[0ne]R on April 05, 2010, 03:55:13 pm
Eh.. I don't remember this happening to me. Except when it lags like hell, I'm always able to pick up weapons.

Not being able to drop your weapon is another story.. Like when you've picked up a used LAW - you have to wait till it fully reloads instead of just throwing it away and picking up something else. Sometimes it costs you life. :/
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: chutem on April 05, 2010, 04:16:12 pm
What are you on, man?

Never heard of or encountered any 25% chance of picking up a weapon, it always works...
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 05, 2010, 07:31:23 pm
rarely works for me >.>, ussualy have to stand on it for a second or run back and try again... it's ussualy right after it falls to the ground (like picking up a knife you just killed with, or picking up the opponents dropped weapon).
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: scarface09 on April 05, 2010, 08:11:05 pm
It also sometimes doesn't work when I try to pick up a weapon. Pisses me off, cos I die in that time.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: chutem on April 05, 2010, 11:47:48 pm
Does it happen both offline and online?
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: SpiltCoffee on April 06, 2010, 12:18:39 am
Yet another synchronisation issue. When a player dies and drops his gun, the gun will be dropping at different positions for the server and each client. The server is the one that has the final say in whether you pick up a gun or not, so you have to be standing over where it thinks the gun is to pick it up, but since each client probably saw it spawn in a slightly different position, unless you have a flat surface, the gun probably bounced in a different direction.

It could be fixed by making the server control where the gun ends up (so, like, once the server sees it has stopped moving, send out it's final position to all clients or something).
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Swompie on April 06, 2010, 04:22:39 am
Yet another synchronisation issue. When a player dies and drops his gun, the gun will be dropping at different positions for the server and each client. The server is the one that has the final say in whether you pick up a gun or not, so you have to be standing over where it thinks the gun is to pick it up, but since each client probably saw it spawn in a slightly different position, unless you have a flat surface, the gun probably bounced in a different direction.

It could be fixed by making the server control where the gun ends up (so, like, once the server sees it has stopped moving, send out it's final position to all clients or something).

Thx, finally I know why people can't pick up the weapons in my Zombie Survival since I droped them 20 units over their head..
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Furai on April 06, 2010, 06:08:18 am
Eh.. I don't remember this happening to me. Except when it lags like hell, I'm always able to pick up weapons.

Not being able to drop your weapon is another story.. Like when you've picked up a used LAW - you have to wait till it fully reloads instead of just throwing it away and picking up something else. Sometimes it costs you life. :/
Best solution to this bug I've found so far is to tap "throw nade" button.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 06, 2010, 07:18:55 am
Yet another synchronisation issue. When a player dies and drops his gun, the gun will be dropping at different positions for the server and each client. The server is the one that has the final say in whether you pick up a gun or not, so you have to be standing over where it thinks the gun is to pick it up, but since each client probably saw it spawn in a slightly different position, unless you have a flat surface, the gun probably bounced in a different direction.

It could be fixed by making the server control where the gun ends up (so, like, once the server sees it has stopped moving, send out it's final position to all clients or something).
are you sure? it ussualy works if you stand on the weapon for awhile (I think).
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: SpiltCoffee on April 06, 2010, 07:47:21 am
It's if you run over the ground surrounding the gun, eventually you'll probably pick it up because you ran over the spot where it actually is.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 06, 2010, 07:55:27 am
Most of the posts are dumb. If you have to stay on a weapon to pick it up - go kill yourself. You've probably got 5 seconds ping. Otherwise you have to move a bit to the sides - it's probably there.

Doesn't happen to me often, but yes, this is fixable.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 06, 2010, 12:38:39 pm
I'm quite sure it's not sync problems, are you sure it doesn't just check for weapon pick up once a second? that sounds a lot more convincing, you can stand on a weapon to wait for it to be picked up.

also, no... it's not my connection... 10/10 fiberoptic is probably enough....

running around in the surroundings won't make you pick the weapon up, because you have to run back to the knife/weapons position (where it appears on your screen).
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Centurion on April 06, 2010, 02:19:42 pm
What if you drop the weapon you want to get rid of and then try picking up a weapon.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 06, 2010, 02:29:48 pm
What if you drop the weapon you want to get rid of and then try picking up a weapon.
you are just retarded, not a good troll, so try to find some professional trolls and learn from them.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: SpiltCoffee on April 07, 2010, 03:23:13 am
I'm quite sure it's not sync problems, are you sure it doesn't just check for weapon pick up once a second? that sounds a lot more convincing, you can stand on a weapon to wait for it to be picked up.
I doubt MM would be so retarded to do that. My bet is that the server checks every tick to see if anyone is standing on the gun.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Boots on April 07, 2010, 04:55:14 am
What if you drop the weapon you want to get rid of and then try picking up a weapon.
you are just retarded, not a good troll, so try to find some professional trolls and learn from them.
Like yourself? Right? ..Right?!
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 07, 2010, 07:15:55 am
What if you drop the weapon you want to get rid of and then try picking up a weapon.
you are just retarded, not a good troll, so try to find some professional trolls and learn from them.
Like yourself? Right? ..Right?!
my trolling is quite successful tho.

I'm quite sure it's not sync problems, are you sure it doesn't just check for weapon pick up once a second? that sounds a lot more convincing, you can stand on a weapon to wait for it to be picked up.
I doubt MM would be so retarded to do that. My bet is that the server checks every tick to see if anyone is standing on the gun.
it would be nice if you could ask enesce about how the pick up mechanism works....
a sync problem would mean that you cannot pick up the weapon from the position displayed (if it doesn't work the first time), an update problem would cause the symptoms seen...
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 11, 2010, 08:45:44 am
-Major-
You are retarded. Not somebody else.
Go to the single player and test it there.
Understand the damn mechanism now??
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: chutem on April 11, 2010, 05:10:26 pm
Although I have never noticed this problem, one I have had, especially with not good pings, is if I am standing on a weapon then drop the weapon I am holding, it will drop the first one, pick the one on the ground up for a split second, then drop it, which is annoying.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: MorlanV on April 12, 2010, 05:42:58 am
I don't remember having a 25% chance of picking up a weapon? I normally just drop my weapon and quickly pickup another weapon, both in SP and MP even when it mega lags.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 13, 2010, 05:15:25 pm
-Major-
You are retarded. Not somebody else.
Go to the single player and test it there.
Understand the damn mechanism now??
who's retarded?

since when is offline = online?

I guess you're so retarded that you haven't noticed offline got 20% more jet and there's also more diffrences, GG, tardo.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Mittsu on April 14, 2010, 05:14:35 am
oh, so MM coded single player that you have 100% chance of picking up weapon and 25% chance in multiplayer

you're retarded major
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 14, 2010, 10:34:25 am
oh, so MM coded single player that you have 100% chance of picking up weapon and 25% chance in multiplayer

you're retarded major
who's retarded? online play uses a netcode, offline don't. since offline is SOLIDLY diffrent from online, it's a SOLID problem in the netcode, and NOT a TEMPORARLY SYNC ERROR.
If this is too advanced for your small shitty brains to understand, refrain from posting. I bet only kike 1% of soldat actually know about the offline and online diffrences, and if you don't know about it, you are retarded (and therefore shouldn't post here).
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 14, 2010, 10:56:15 am
You don't know anything about the programming(and that's a problem in you atm). But I'll try to explain to decrease your retardness.
Offline and online modes are actually same. The only difference is that in offline bonus/player spawns and other things are controlled by events, and in online they're controlled by server. And player movements(I mean actions, like jumping/running/shooting) in offline are controlled by AI, and in online by server.
server works like a client(a game you run), but instead of showing smth it simulates everything and sends information to the clients.
Offline and Online modes are NOT DIFFERENT GAMES. And if you're stupid enough to understand it - DOWNLOAD THE SERVER, RUN IT, JOIN IT and make sure that you're a retard.


AND I FORGOT TO MENTION:
There's NO offline mode in soldat. Really it creates a server and joins it. Remember somebody joining your """offline""" game?
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 14, 2010, 11:20:12 am
you seem to know nothing about what you're talking about.

I suggest you check up, event (programming), server, client and AI. you don't really use them as if you knew what it was.

being the SERVER is DIFFRENT from being a CLIENT.
Also, player position, bullet registration etc is deterimined by the client.

Blaming it on sync is probably faulty, otherwise you wouldn't beable to pick up the weapon by standing still on the dropped weapons position, unless the dropped weapon gets some super Y bounce (probably higher than it was dropped from).

if it is the way you're explaining it FLB, weapons position is only sent ONCE, and no more, that is just dumb if a game got object physics..
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 14, 2010, 11:57:02 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event-driven_programming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_server
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_client
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client-server
The only "wrong" thing I can see in my message is saying AI instead of bot, but bot doesn't explain the thing I meant, and AI is used differently. It's ok.

And could you point me where I used these words incorrectly?

I meant that server does(should do) everything in the same way as the client does. So server knows every bullet, player, object position. Wasn't it obvious?

And dumb it or not, but the object positions are only sent once. Even more, their positions are not sent at all :D
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 14, 2010, 02:33:39 pm
ofc ALL programs runs from events, AI = artificial intelligence, which is applied to bots or NPCs.
If you think online soldat is using the script core as the game enginge, you're horribly wrong, it's just like you can mod HL, not rewrite the whole game.
the server only calculates packets and resends them.

the client is the game and put those packets into action

AND WHY THE FUCK DO YOU ARGUE WITH ME IF YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT?!
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: DarkCrusade on April 14, 2010, 02:48:37 pm
Actually Neosano knows far more shit than you could imagine. Why do retarded people always negate that they are retarded and tell others who state their position very clearly and with much knowledge that THEY are the retarded people?

First of all if you "knew shit" about this stuff your topic name wouldn´t be "pick up weapon" but "Improve Servers". Secondly, you wouldn´t argue like that just to pretend you "know shit".


Caps lock isn´t cool, yo?
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Mittsu on April 14, 2010, 03:00:58 pm
"I think the 25% chance to pick up weapon is a stupid perk"

lololol

dont get angry major, or dont pretend to be a succesful troll, you're contradicting yourself
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 14, 2010, 03:13:28 pm
"I think the 25% chance to pick up weapon is a stupid perk" is to make MM look pathetic.

even when I was really noob at programming, my programs/games worked without stupid random bugs (since I fixed them as soon as I noticed them, and I knew my code in and out)
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: DarkCrusade on April 14, 2010, 03:15:47 pm
Oh interesting

Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: smiluu on April 14, 2010, 03:24:57 pm
Does ping have anything to do with it?
Because, I think i've encountered same sheib with around 150-200 ping.

I skipped all the datanome quarrel so don't go tearing my glory hole.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: DarkCrusade on April 14, 2010, 03:28:28 pm
You didn´t miss anything.

AFAIK ping has no effect on this.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 14, 2010, 03:34:04 pm
If you think online soldat is using the script core as the game enginge, you're horribly wrong, it's just like you can mod HL, not rewrite the whole game.
Is it a joke or what? :-) Did I say something like this?
Script core is a script core, game engine is not even related to it. (Almost)

Quote
the server only calculates packets and resends them.
Not only. Server detects when bullets hit players and tells the damage done to them.
Same thing with flag caps. Oh yea... Weapon picking is server side too! Same as the bonus picking... oh yea, server only resends packets... :)  [retard]  [retard]  [retard]  [retard]


Well, it's your internet connection. On your screen you're moving, but server has lost a connection with you for one second. You stand on the wep, then server gets the info about you and sets your weapon.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 14, 2010, 04:09:46 pm
If you think online soldat is using the script core as the game enginge, you're horribly wrong, it's just like you can mod HL, not rewrite the whole game.
Is it a joke or what? :-) Did I say something like this?
Script core is a script core, game engine is not even related to it. (Almost)

Quote
the server only calculates packets and resends them.
Not only. Server detects when bullets hit players and tells the damage done to them.
Same thing with flag caps. Oh yea... Weapon picking is server side too! Same as the bonus picking... oh yea, server only resends packets... :)  [retard]  [retard]  [retard]  [retard]


Well, it's your internet connection. On your screen you're moving, but server has lost a connection with you for one second. You stand on the wep, then server gets the info about you and sets your weapon.
yes, fiberoptic connections often has packetloss.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: SpiltCoffee on April 15, 2010, 03:21:37 am
Well, it's your internet connection. On your screen you're moving, but server has lost a connection with you for one second. You stand on the wep, then server gets the info about you and sets your weapon.
Ping would only delay how long it takes to pick up the weapon. What Major is experiencing is the desynchronization between the client and the server of where game objects are supposed to be.

This is either caused by the client calculating the dropped weapon's position differently to the server (same equations, but it sees the weapon collide with the ground at different frames, for example), thus meaning that the weapon ends up in a different position, OR the server never actually tells the client the exact position that a dead player dropped his gun, so the client has to assume the current position and velocity it has of that player is correct and make the gun drop with those values, which could be slightly different to the server and result in the gun bouncing differently.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 15, 2010, 04:44:33 am
here you go, a demo of how the laggy pick up works, note: the warp is only because of it's a demo, it is NOT a lag spike(my ping is 16 _ALL_ the time)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72fUMCWLCOo

.flv file Download: http://download521.mediafire.com/zi2zmdj11f4g/xmmxvyrhmyt/laggy+Pick+up.flv
.flv file Mirror: http://www.mediafire.com/?xmmxvyrhmyt
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 15, 2010, 07:07:10 am
Uhhh.... hmmh..
Did you try to run your own server and test it there?
And about which warp are you talking about? there was one while you was trying to take the knife, and one before the video starts.
All I can think of is that a knife was laying(really) a bit to the left. You jumped over it, then walked back to it.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 15, 2010, 01:02:04 pm
Uhhh.... hmmh..
Did you try to run your own server and test it there?
And about which warp are you talking about? there was one while you was trying to take the knife, and one before the video starts.
All I can think of is that a knife was laying(really) a bit to the left. You jumped over it, then walked back to it.

if you look at the video, I grab the knife when I'm precisly above it, when you turn quickly you warp a bit in demos (slightly in game), but still the problem is that you can't pick up the weapon.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 15, 2010, 03:42:54 pm
My laptop lags, so this video isn't smooth for me. But I watched it thousand of times and explained what happened. Are you listening?
You took the knife when you was one meter to the left from knife. It was the real position of it.
And have you tried running your own server and testing it there? Try it and stop this discussion.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 15, 2010, 05:57:39 pm
My laptop lags, so this video isn't smooth for me. But I watched it thousand of times and explained what happened. Are you listening?
You took the knife when you was one meter to the left from knife. It was the real position of it.
And have you tried running your own server and testing it there? Try it and stop this discussion.
OFFLINE =/= ONLINE, why would it matter if I try to host some home based dedicated server and test this? when the porblem is when you're playing ONLINE.

also, no, I picked it up when I was standing on the knife, I would know, as I was playing.
if you go frame by frame, you will see I stand on the knife when I pick it up.


are you trying to defend something when it's obvious it isn't working?.... are you christian?
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 16, 2010, 07:51:29 am
That's just OMG.
He just said that running a server and joining it would not work in the same way as joining some random server. Just awesome. bye
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: DarkCrusade on April 16, 2010, 12:43:37 pm
I had a laugh.

Now lock this topic before Major blames himself even more than he did just now.

Oh god
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: L[0ne]R on April 16, 2010, 02:35:12 pm
That's just OMG.
He just said that running a server and joining it would not work in the same way as joining some random server. Just awesome. bye
Isn't that actually true in a way?
If you join a server that you host yourself - you'll have 0 ping. So all those eats and such won't happen unless there are other players on your server who have much higher pings.

Haven't read the rest of the comments.
This topic is too boring to make a fun sh*tfight.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: tehsnipah on April 16, 2010, 02:43:16 pm
Uhh.... All you have to do is roll on the ground to get the weapon if it's on the ground....
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: DarkCrusade on April 16, 2010, 03:06:16 pm
@Loner: If you join your own server bots will start eating.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 16, 2010, 03:25:11 pm
That's just OMG.
He just said that running a server and joining it would not work in the same way as joining some random server. Just awesome. bye
Isn't that actually true in a way?
If you join a server that you host yourself - you'll have 0 ping. So all those eats and such won't happen unless there are other players on your server who have much higher pings.

Haven't read the rest of the comments.
This topic is too boring to make a fun sh*tfight.
Oh... if you're that kind of guy - make your server lag on purpose.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: L[0ne]R on April 16, 2010, 03:56:49 pm
You took the knife when you was one meter to the left from knife.
You can't tell for sure where he was. He warped when he picked up the knife. Maybe watching the video 1000 times wasn't enough.

you're that kind of guy
I'm glad you finally noticed how awesome I am. <3

anyway, Neosano, Major:
Don't you see how pointless it is to keep arguing? Neither of you ever seen Soldat's source code, so I doubt that any of you know how it all works (or doesn't work) and what the problem is. All you're doing is imagining things and trying to prove each other's imagination wrong.

Stop embarrassing yourself, give each other a hug and leave this problem to the dev s .
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 16, 2010, 05:47:57 pm
difference is, I have programmed, neosano haven't (maybe some pascal for soldat server scripting).

and no, why would I play on a home hosted server if it worked (since I would connect to a localhost), when the problem is at other servers, like, soldatserver.net, soldatgather.net, outcry.u13.net, server.soldatna.com, bazoooka.net and server.selfkill.com (which are pretty much the ONLY servers you get to play on).

and yes, arguing with this 13 year old is quite pointless, just waiting for SpiltCofee to actually talk with enesce (since he just starts crying when I do).
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: DarkCrusade on April 16, 2010, 06:15:36 pm
I love how you think you understand everything but actually understand nothing at all. It´s about time that you figure out that noone except EnEsCe (and MM) knows how the servers work and that this discussion is pointless other than that you show everyone how interesting your personality is.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 16, 2010, 06:22:30 pm
.... netcodes are ussualy not that far appart from one and another. you mostlikely got no idea what you're talking about, just like neosano, you're just here to defend your retarded friend (who apperently doesn't even know what AI is).
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: DarkCrusade on April 16, 2010, 06:59:20 pm
Don´t you dare to even try to imagine why I am posting here since that has no point either. You are a troll, that´s all (in a way you are a successful troll, but I´m not going to tell you in which way, go figure it out yourself but outside and not in front of your computer).


Because this is going nowhere I´ll just refrain from posting here again.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Horve on April 16, 2010, 07:27:00 pm
you should have refrained from posting 2360 posts ago
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 17, 2010, 06:05:34 am
Crusade, neverming. This thread is a joke. Anyway I feel sad for him.

End of discussion.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: -Major- on April 17, 2010, 06:31:38 am
Crusade, neverming. This thread is a joke. Anyway I feel sad for him.

End of discussion.
well... I'm not the one denying it when there's video proof ._.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: MorlanV on April 22, 2010, 12:07:30 pm
oh, so MM coded single player that you have 100% chance of picking up weapon and 25% chance in multiplayer

you're retarded major
who's retarded? online play uses a netcode, offline don't. since offline is SOLIDLY diffrent from online, it's a SOLID problem in the netcode, and NOT a TEMPORARLY SYNC ERROR.
If this is too advanced for your small s**tty brains to understand, refrain from posting. I bet only kike 1% of soldat actually know about the offline and online diffrences, and if you don't know about it, you are retarded (and therefore shouldn't post here).

Offline doesn't use the internet, online does.
offline doesn't have sync problems, online does.
offline doesn't use a netcode, online does.
offline doesn't have retarded people like Major, online does.
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: L[0ne]R on April 22, 2010, 03:57:54 pm
offline doesn't have retarded people like Major, online does.
.....you don't realize how wrong you are.....
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: Neosano on April 23, 2010, 06:51:18 am
And I already told you! THERE IS NO OFFLINE IN SOLDAT. End of discussion, everybody fuck off!
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: SpiltCoffee on April 23, 2010, 08:31:36 am
No it's not. The problem isn't fixed yet!
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: machina on April 23, 2010, 01:50:41 pm
Maybe you shoud add other than F button which you must to press if you want to pich up a weapon, for example: Spacebar...?
Title: Re: pick up weapons
Post by: MorlanV on April 25, 2010, 10:37:16 am
And I already told you! THERE IS NO OFFLINE IN SOLDAT. End of discussion, everybody f**k off!

There is offline, it's called singleplayer. If there's no such thing as offline, how can I play Soldat with no internet connected?