Official Soldat Forums

Soldat Maps & Mapmaking => CTF/INF maps => Topic started by: Dr.DR4IG on October 12, 2010, 11:35:51 am

Title: CTF - Mission Improbable (& MI: Redux) Map(s)
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 12, 2010, 11:35:51 am
C T F     M I S S I O N      I M P R O B A B L E     ( v 1 . 0 b )

(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pn8qcYeWEZuOw3AEat5OYmedjygvlsucgVvInVDSE-dVz8lDfn77osjNXkqLuJyKeJlqE3kMG8_GLYf1bhBF5fQ/Improbable-Pic00.png?psid=1)

My third map! Releasing this as is to get some suggestions and changes in without needlessly updating it in tiny increments. It's my usual two-base CTF maps, Save the sewers connecting
the two sides are a lot more.. Branchy-offy than my usual mapping style.

 So far it works well enough, Though bots still need some tweaking and the odd ramp-base has polybug. Another current annoying feature is the flag carriers deciding to stop and man
STAT guns they run across. (I think the code itself should be changed in the next SOLDAT to fix this.. Basically if <x> has flag then <ignore STAT gun clinging behaviour>)

 Let me know as usual what to fix and what could be added and I'll see what I can do.


(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1psfFNIkJKHK_4srIfdn0CRdPi9ISQhoPbhOe6eXA_VqB7rm0PQ_LVd_wt6gVSDMYwju4cX9NUumcwaeUa7QFS1g/Improbable-pic01.png?psid=1)

(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1piuwp3IJLGq66j_9XEWXVy5l0CYdk71U0CMLXe0snEvS1xi_RSLRK2Cfiu5G3o8koa7fJP1W55dSLTwWIU6vOoA/Improbable-pic02.png?psid=1)

(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pRhjLGVZT3KN9PdDycMAgM5gCzncA0oo8ep44QdlrGUU2Ry6eO4hCw2--aUM562czXW8G5uF6weTAVkYP4u9Eng/Improbable-pic03.png?psid=1)



D O W N L O A D     L I N K S :

TMS: http://tms.jrgp.org/2010/index.php?download=1513 (http://tms.jrgp.org/2010/index.php?download=1513)

SkyDrive: http://1qdaga.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pR1va3JF24AUDKa3VsduRN8TNIs7oO8_V_RrRyiS9_TSobyV_raJNjj_-JEygVXtji_bVpm2rHecLQzEPHO-RSnWB0RL4eLRk/CTF-MissionImprobablev1.zip?download&psid=1 (http://1qdaga.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pR1va3JF24AUDKa3VsduRN8TNIs7oO8_V_RrRyiS9_TSobyV_raJNjj_-JEygVXtji_bVpm2rHecLQzEPHO-RSnWB0RL4eLRk/CTF-MissionImprobablev1.zip?download&psid=1)
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: As de Espada on October 12, 2010, 05:36:14 pm
OK, this would be good some years ago, but now it's way too HUGE! Probably there are some routes that will never be used.
I think this is 4 times the size of the maps for x5. I'll test it and say more (someday).
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 12, 2010, 06:40:19 pm
Quote from: As de Espada on October 12, 2010, 05:36:14 pm
I think this is 4 times the size of the maps for x5. I'll test it and say more (someday).

 Wait.. You're saying it's too large and no one will take certain paths.. ..BEFORE playing it..? :O
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: DarkCrusade on October 12, 2010, 06:49:54 pm
Those black blanks are lame. Stretched polygons will do the trick I guess..
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 12, 2010, 06:58:19 pm
Quote from: DarkCrusade on October 12, 2010, 06:49:54 pm
Those black blanks are lame. Stretched polygons will do the trick I guess..

 Mebbe but they're really not all that noticeable when you're running away from 4-6 persistant bots. Still, Will see what I can do. I think I was pushing 700 polys last I checked :P It's a shame it takes twice as many polys to make lots of flat areas :P X3
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: DarkCrusade on October 12, 2010, 07:14:39 pm
It'd be a lot less noticable if they weren't there. Also, the background does not change the colour of the polygons outside the sewer. Strange.. :P
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Blacksheepboy on October 12, 2010, 07:18:26 pm
I like to think of playing this map with 31 other bots. I would need a hug otherwise.

Must, having, constant, fighting.

Anyway, the visuals are uber spiffy.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 12, 2010, 09:38:38 pm
Quote from: DarkCrusade on October 12, 2010, 07:14:39 pm
It'd be a lot less noticable if they weren't there. Also, the background does not change the colour of the polygons outside the sewer. Strange.. :P

Unno what you mean by changing the color..? But suffice to say the remake won't have those gaps. Polylimit or no. XD Speaking of which, I originally thought the polylimit was 400, But I've gone up to about 750-something without issues. IS there a set limit?

Quote from: Blacksheepboy on October 12, 2010, 07:18:26 pm
I like to think of playing this map with 31 other bots. I would need a hug otherwise.

Must, having, constant, fighting.

Anyway, the visuals are uber spiffy.

I was playing it with about 24 actually. But they do need work. As is, I'm redoing the map a bit. Making it a bit tighter, With more gradual slopes. I'm beginning to notice 45 degree blocks and 90 degree blocks don't work together (Polybug when trying to run from the flat end to the sloped end.)


This map will still be here for the meantime, But I'll be releasing the remake shortly. :P Less branchy, Gentler slopes (Should be no polybug, Or very little bounce at least!) and built more with bot pathing in mind. (Less vertical jetpack required areas) In the meantime, I suppose this map could be reserved for those running LARGE servers.

 Speaking of which, Should I just tack the remake of this map and new snapshots/Overview to this thread, Or start a similar thread elsewhere? I don't relish starting a FOURTH map thread. I've only been here for a week or two afterall..
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: smiluu on October 13, 2010, 01:26:29 am
There are no limit for polygons, but above 2000 will just be a competition for lagfuhrers.

Visuals are soft, yet so hard, I like your style.
You make your sceneries/textures by yourself?
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: DarkCrusade on October 13, 2010, 02:49:45 am
Quote from: Dr.DR4IG on October 12, 2010, 09:38:38 pm
I'm beginning to notice 45 degree blocks and 90 degree blocks don't work together (Polybug when trying to run from the flat end to the sloped end.)

Tryed fixing via invisible polygons already? Boosts your polygon count, but it's still worth it.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 13, 2010, 03:50:43 am
Quote from: smiluu on October 13, 2010, 01:26:29 am
There are no limit for polygons, but above 2000 will just be a competition for lagfuhrers.

Visuals are soft, yet so hard, I like your style.
You make your sceneries/textures by yourself?

Keenage. Was worried the limit'd be something like 900 or such. I doubt I'd go past the 600-800 range max tho.

 Yup, I do make my own textures and sceneries. Been messing with graphics and mappers for all manner of games. Is sorta a skill though in some cases if I can't get something right texturewise I might cheat by heavily modifying a background element from an old 16-bit game, Or combine small elements thusly like a grill or vent with my own work. For the MOST part I do my own though.

Quote from: DarkCrusade on October 13, 2010, 02:49:45 am

Tryed fixing via invisible polygons already? Boosts your polygon count, but it's still worth it.

 Actually I haven't yet tried that technique. Not tried it yet as I wasn't sure if it was some magic trick of the editor, Or if it would require me making a 'transparent' band in the texture for the map.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: DarkCrusade on October 13, 2010, 03:52:47 am
You only need to change the opacity of a polygon to 0. I'd colour them all in one colour to be able to select them all at once later - if needed.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Monsteri on October 13, 2010, 07:22:04 am
This looks waay too big but I really like your visuals. Those clouds can catch some FPS. P.S what a name for bot  ;D  (Dildo Teabaggins
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 13, 2010, 08:38:41 am
Quote from: Monsteri on October 13, 2010, 07:22:04 am
This looks waay too big but I really like your visuals. Those clouds can catch some FPS. P.S what a name for bot  ;D  (Dildo Teabaggins

 Yus, As I mentioned a couple posts above I've pretty much redone most if not all the map to be smaller, Tighter since. Just have to get it packed up in another halfhour or so. And this time the bots seem to know what the heck they're doing..

 And yeah.. I have this habit in any game with bots you can configure of giving them punny names. I think Dildo had a companion bot, Samdumb Gangrene or somesuch..
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Illuminatus on October 13, 2010, 08:47:13 am
Rerelease this map when LinkDead is out. It would really fit for it.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 13, 2010, 11:39:56 am
Quote from: Illuminatus on October 13, 2010, 08:47:13 am
Rerelease this map when LinkDead is out. It would really fit for it.

 I hadn't actually heard of this till you brought it up. Looks marvvy.

From: October 13, 2010, 11:49:27 am
Yup, Here it is: Fixed smaller, Gentler-sloped version of this map.. Mission Improbable - Redux!

(http://1qdaga.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p0jqfu5lMeWDv0M5QGNNXLT2IlguWo1dmwldnxuaaRrC1Wu_-52hqS1eeuZ5qeGI7-IoV4zdAds4Ks3RP3JUs8XmSdIe9G9xJ/Improbable02-pic00.png?psid=1)

(http://1qdaga.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pXcFMMjgb5I7aXXNHbiL6QG-wmA6SJwCkriMRRUcDN8KqQc5UzcOf7H1TBQqvEjj3xKW03fEs7de_z1O20NbSP2dghjZsAV59/Improbable02-pic01.png?psid=1)

(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pjbwnyy1bP2q3fqSZcw-G8x2xZvM5AnnM6a9aPCOvxF1tfamABSC0sOJYzJiBJHHtEBcIxNSzO78PZQ9iPpH34g/Improbable02-pic02.png?psid=1)

(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p-oYzXYVhHTXy3zfslISAgw1ckVkfTo49N5H0IV9Q8x-fFzJN5A4fg0mze9NiUF2IBSKx0S7383AUu5voeyvNnA/Improbable02-pic03.png?psid=1)


D O W N L O A D     L I N K S :

TMS:         http://tms.jrgp.org/2010/index.php?download=1515 (http://tms.jrgp.org/2010/index.php?download=1515)

SKYDRIVE: http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pwcyhKdsPV5QO1rW3o_tvfq7ccJyXOcHq-RA3rStWUmftbBbR4jn1Sp7_Afj__1T3kLp5eZQYZHS1oO74fV00_g/CTF-MissionImprobablev2.zip?download&psid=1 (http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pwcyhKdsPV5QO1rW3o_tvfq7ccJyXOcHq-RA3rStWUmftbBbR4jn1Sp7_Afj__1T3kLp5eZQYZHS1oO74fV00_g/CTF-MissionImprobablev2.zip?download&psid=1)   

Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Blacksheepboy on October 13, 2010, 01:51:19 pm
Damn, man, I like the redux.

I took your first version home, waypointed it and fixed all the polybugs just to playtest it and tell ya what I thought. I'm glad you beat me to it though, 'cause the first version was a pain tbh. Very glad you took out the complex bottom route stuff.

Man, you even made the top and middle routes come together in the middle! Nice.

While fixing up the first version, I recorded some snippets in Polyworks of me fixing polybugs and doing waypoints. I don't see too much point in posting them now.

I'll download this version, and if I see anything blaringly obvious in the waypoints or with polybugs, I'll make another couple videos.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: DarkCrusade on October 14, 2010, 01:43:16 am
This was like the map best update ever introduced to forums.soldat.pl.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Monsteri on October 14, 2010, 07:48:12 am
Woa, really nice udpate! Now there aren't useless routes, and almost everything is playing. Really good work!
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Suowarrior on October 14, 2010, 08:44:54 am
Nice looks/style, though lights are too flashy.

I prefer much smaller maps. But for big it's good, working layout, all we need is mega crowded server.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 14, 2010, 10:22:49 am
Quote from: DarkCrusade on October 14, 2010, 01:43:16 am
This was like the map best update ever introduced to forums.soldat.pl.


 Well, It's only my third-and-a-half map so far. Still learning here. Mapping's more than just pretty textures afterall and there' still some things I'm learning about this engine/Maps as I go. :>

 I am in the midst of taking a small break from mapping though to work strictly on a scenery/Textures pack to put up on TMS later. People seem to like some of them so figured it might be fun to make a full pack of all the nesessary goodies for people. If it doesn't bloat the archive size I'll likely include PSDs of them too for anyone who'd like to make custom versions.

Quote from: Monsteri on October 14, 2010, 07:48:12 am
Woa, really nice udpate! Now there aren't useless routes, and almost everything is playing. Really good work!


 Well, I noticed after playing a bit before bed again last night with my brothers the bots sometimes fly past the flag and have to do a whole round-robin of the bases to cap a flag, But admittably getting bots to fly/Jump high is not one of my fortes at present.. But thanks! XD

Quote from: Suowarrior on October 14, 2010, 08:44:54 am
Nice looks/style, though lights are too flashy.

I prefer much smaller maps. But for big it's good, working layout, all we need is mega crowded server.

 I unno, I have my bots I usually run with set with near-insane stats so for me anyways even 8 such bots running around there is usually enough to give me a bit of trouble. Beats running around solo with my brothers on the LAN tho..  ;D  But as Illuminatus mentioned earlier in this thread when Linkdead becomes a reality I might make maps like this for that game. The style I map in for here and elsewhere might fit better in that sorta gamestyle.   

 As for the lights, Still trying to get a nice blend between flashy and functional. Light cones are actually one of the few things I've not learned to do quite right texturewise, So those are actually the cone_4 ones that come with SOLDAT, I just used the texture, Made a light fixture and made it all one piece as a separate scenery. Glad you like the map nontheless. If people want to change bits of my maps to suit their local differences in taste they're more than welcome to, Same goes for the sceneries in my map archive. :> Just drop my name if anyone asks where the textures arrived from. :}
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Blacksheepboy on October 14, 2010, 01:21:32 pm
Time to b***h:

The big scenery in front of the player; I refuse to play a map with lots of big opaque scenery in front of the player. A lot of other Soldat players would jump ship for the same reason.

Another one: I know this map is a b***h to waypoint, but you made 120ish waypoints over the 500 limit. That’s a recipe for disaster, and a reason why some waypoints bug.


Enough b***hing.

I took the new version home and, other than finding things to complain about, I rewaypointed the whole map. You know how you had the bots fly up to the stat guns on the towers (a feature I like by the way) using like 30 wpts? I made the bots fly up there using ~12 waypoints from jumping, flying, to landing (I thank Keron for his instruction). If this map was smaller, you would have waypointed things fine; kudos for trying.

For studying waypoints, check out any of the default maps. Try to find the default maps wpted by Keron Cyst. Also, these two maps are fairly instructional:
ctf_Preyhunt (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=7467.0)
inf_Lawrence (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=6043.0)

About polybugs. With the map I'll send you, you'll see one good method for fixing polybugs.
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Dr.DR4IG on October 14, 2010, 03:43:00 pm
Quote from: Blacksheepboy on October 14, 2010, 01:21:32 pm
The big scenery in front of the player; I refuse to play a map with lots of big opaque scenery in front of the player. A lot of other Soldat players would jump ship for the same reason.

 For similar reasons I know a few who like being able to hide behind such things. Is why I let people make whatever revisions they want to the maps for their own servers.

 I tried to keep the width of these to no wider or taller than a player when possible though. (Roughly 24/32 pixels) Again, Season to taste. X3

Quote from: Blacksheepboy on October 14, 2010, 01:21:32 pm
Another one: I know this map is a b***h to waypoint, but you made 120ish waypoints over the 500 limit. That’s a recipe for disaster, and a reason why some waypoints bug.

 Yeah, A LOT of that was me trying to overcompensate for my inability to get the bots to 'fly' correctly. It drives me mad.

Quote from: Blacksheepboy on October 14, 2010, 01:21:32 pm
You know how you had the bots fly up to the stat guns on the towers (a feature I like by the way) using like 30 wpts? I made the bots fly up there using ~12 waypoints from jumping, flying, to landing (I thank Keron for his instruction). If this map was smaller, you would have waypointed things fine; kudos for trying.

 Yup, Again my weak point of having trouble dealing with the bots when they need to leave the ground for more than a few seconds. XD Making them duck-roll-jet-roll over small gaps I got down pat tho. :}

Quote from: Blacksheepboy on October 14, 2010, 01:21:32 pm
For studying waypoints, check out any of the default maps. Try to find the default maps wpted by Keron Cyst. Also, these two maps are fairly instructional:
ctf_Preyhunt (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=7467.0)
inf_Lawrence (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=6043.0)

About polybugs. With the map I'll send you, you'll see one good method for fixing polybugs.

I'll poke through TMS later and see if I can't find anything interesting about these maps for study. Thanks for taking the time out to look over my work and help me out with this stuff. :}
Title: Re: CTF - Mission Improbable
Post by: Blacksheepboy on October 15, 2010, 11:22:48 am
Once again, any maps waypointed by Keron Cyst (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?action=profile;u=229) are worth looking at. I'd be wary of anyone else's waypoints (with some exceptions being Wraithlike (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?action=profile;u=157), grand_diablo (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?action=profile;u=12), Demonic (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?action=profile;u=19), Eagle_Arrows (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?action=profile;u=95) and probably Suowarrior (http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?action=profile;u=2113))