Official Soldat Forums
Soldat Talk => Weapon Balance Discussion => Topic started by: machina on December 07, 2016, 05:04:11 pm
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Now the next thing we should do is to remove the lag from the Barret.
...and make it in such form as a DLC weapon. Eventually, a subscription paid every month. Let's at least get some money before ultimately having Soldat fucked up.
This has killed that gun for good, its not fun to play with it since it was introduced a lag, you guys ruined a perfectly fine gun.
Killed the gun for good? Half of Zabijaka servers are filled with Barrett-whores.
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Now the next thing we should do is to remove the lag from the Barret. This has killed that gun for good, its not fun to play with it since it was introduced a lag, you guys ruined a perfectly fine gun.
What?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Barrett - this shitty weapon is too strong for a long time. And you want even better? Don't be pathetic.
I hope that Barrett will be worse (in next version 1.8 ).
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What?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Barrett - this shitty weapon is too strong for a long time. And you want even better? Don't be pathetic.
I hope that Barrett will be worse (in next version 1.8 ).
This is funny because back in the day where Barrett had zero delay, this was just a sniper rifle, way distant of this super overpower status.
I guess that all this idea about the Barrett is made of it's style, one bullet to kill. People get mad easily because there's someone laying down and killing him with one bullet. If you compare the Barrett to the CS AWP, you can say the same thing about it's power, but there's many ways to counter it. People like Chaky (Chilean national team) can easily rape you with Barrett, with or without delay, and you gonna say that this weapon is OP, even with 1 second delay. If you play against the Barrett like you play against the Steyr AUG, you gonna die easily.
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People get mad easily because there's someone laying down and killing him with one bullet.
Soldat's Barrett is long time not for such purposes. Now it's mainly a rush into an enemy and kill with one shot.
If you play against the Barrett like you play against the Steyr AUG, you gonna die easily.
Unlikely to the other one-shot-one-kill weapon i.e. M79, Barrett has no range limitations so you have to take down opponent within its StartUpTime which is currently 0.316 s. This isn't enough to get yourself close enough for most weapons. For some long range weapons like Ruger, this is gonna give you one hit. You still need one more and you have to hit torso twice to make it fatal. Funnily, on Barrett (with latest 1.7.1 update) you only have to hit a foot once to kill.
So your only tactics is to hope for a miss... Which isn't most likely to happen because in latest update (1.7.1) it has been prevented from happening be decreasing Barrett's MovementAcc. So Barrett's user can jump, backflip and do whatever one desires to do while not affecting an aim at all. But that's the sniper rifle's purpose, wasn't it? Or maybe some time ago we lost it's ultimate goal? To be actually a sniper rifle - not some rushing one-foot-hit-one-kill overpowered weapon. And you don't have to care if opponent is moving because Barrett's bullets are the fastest so there's no need to adjust and foresee opponent's moves to hit one.
Sorry, this post drifted away a bit from the topic but it's still had to be said that Barrett isn't a sniper rifle anymore at all.
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you have to take down opponent within its StartUpTime which is currently 0.316 s. This isn't enough to get yourself close enough for most weapons.
That's just wrong. There's also reload time to take into account, which is usually used by players with a brain to counter a barret player.
it has been prevented from happening be decreasing Barrett's MovementAcc. So Barrett's user can jump, backflip and do whatever one desires to do while not affecting an aim at all.
That's wrong as well. Do you even play Soldat or are you just working on boosting your post count on the forums?
Also, Barret got bink. Means; your shots get inaccurate if you get hit. On a sidenote: wrong topic.
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you have to take down opponent within its StartUpTime which is currently 0.316 s. This isn't enough to get yourself close enough for most weapons.
That's just wrong. There's also reload time to take into account, which is usually used by players with a brain to counter a barret player.
Wait, what? ReloadTime? I'd like to remember that Barrett has the lowest ReloadTime property among all primary weapons i.e. 1.16 s. Neither Deagles nor HK-MP5 can be reloaded faster. Pretty nice result for a weapon carring 10 one-shot-one-kill bullets. For comparison a USSOCOM ReloadTime takes 1 s which is the only bullet-shooting weapon that can be reloaded faster than Barrett.
So, seriously? How is this advantageous? You ever encountered a Barrett user that would run out of ammo while fighting someone? I didn't.
Hopefully, you didn't mean FireInterval by saying "reload time" as this would be most inaccurate understanding of terms for an official Soldat Weapon Mod designer.
it has been prevented from happening be decreasing Barrett's MovementAcc. So Barrett's user can jump, backflip and do whatever one desires to do while not affecting an aim at all.
That's wrong as well. Do you even play Soldat or are you just working on boosting your post count on the forums?
Also, Barret got bink. Means; your shots get inaccurate if you get hit. On a sidenote: wrong topic.
Bink is but an imitation of a solution. It just doesn't work.
I do actually play. These are publics those doesn't seem to be taken in account at all while designing the WM. Interestingly, all we yell for here on these forums are new players. But they won't come from gathers or leages but from public servers those seem to be ommited in calculations.
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I do actually play. These are publics those doesn't seem to be taken in account at all while designing the WM. Interestingly, all we yell for here on these forums are new players. But they won't come from gathers or leages but from public servers those seem to be ommited in calculations.
This is retard overload.
Why would you design a weapons mod around public players?
May as well design CS cash rewards around getting a full AWP buy every round, even if you lose.
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Why would you design a weapons mod around public players?
Because as I said in previous post, Soldat is not a private toy for old players who play once per weeks in gather. Open your eyes a bit wider and look at Soldat as product, damn game for people around the world, that NEED new player, that guess what? THEY PLAY PUBLIC IN THE FIRST PLACE, for fun, for god damn few minutes of cool brutal shooting, not for numbers, ratio or perfect shoot all the time. They dont give a F about taking in to the account reaload time to "counter a barret player"
Soldat NEED new players in PUBLIC SERVERS, and that should be priority, not patting on the head older ones. Without new players from public server, in next year you would play again and again with the same 20-30 people ALL THE TIME, because I seriously didnt saw new faces in Soldat for past months, and if, its like install-play-forget.
You design WM to be balanced between new players and old. It had to give various chooses from weapon list, Barret right now, beside m79 and styer is only weapon used in public because its overpowered and easy to use. Too easy. Even in not oneshoot servers most of players run with barret, because even weaker player can jump with it and get head shoot without even trying.
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The current WM is not designed for "competitive" play, it's much more balanced around publics.
What do you want the WM be like? Every weapon one hit? Or scale their damage up so it becomes realistic mode? And that way m79 won't be OP in publics?
Because as I said in previous post, Soldat is not a private toy for old players who play once per weeks in gather.
NEED new player, that guess what? THEY PLAY PUBLIC IN THE FIRST PLACE, for fun, for god damn few minutes of cool brutal shooting, not for numbers, ratio or perfect shoot all the time.
Who do you think is more valuable.
The gather player that plays a couple of gathers every other day... Or the public player that plays the game for 30 minutes and then never touches the game again?
For the people who are going to stay, they'll pretty quickly learn that m79 is shit, and that autos dominates in soldat.
Soldat NEED new players in PUBLIC SERVERS, and that should be priority, not patting on the head older ones. Without new players from public server, in next year you would play again and again with the same 20-30 people ALL THE TIME, because I seriously didnt saw new faces in Soldat for past months, and if, its like install-play-forget.
That's already happened, and been so for a couple of years or longer.
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Soldat won't suddenly get new players just because you botch a WM.
Look at the current version. The most botched WM in soldats history, and the publics are still empty, and pubbers still play m79 and brt.
You design WM to be balanced between new players and old. It had to give various chooses from weapon list, Barret right now, beside m79 and styer is only weapon used in public because its overpowered and easy to use. Too easy. Even in not oneshoot servers most of players run with barret, because even weaker player can jump with it and get head shoot without even trying.
WM doesn't matter at all to a newbie, and the newbies view on which weapons are good will change throught their play.. So how do you balance all those weapons that they're balanced between every player level group?
You don't, you balance it for the competitive scene, since they're pretty much the only ones who will notice if a weapon is UP or OP.
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The current WM is not designed for "competitive" play, it's much more balanced around publics.
What do you want the WM be like? Every weapon one hit? Or scale their damage up so it becomes realistic mode? And that way m79 won't be OP in publics?
I played few FPS games. In most of them a sniper rifle's bullet has to hit a head to kill or a good spot on torso. Only Soldat's Barrett is so stupidly designed it can kill an opponent by hitting one's foot.
The way I see it, is we have AK back again. Barrett doesn't kill with one foot shot and has MovementAcc that actually affects player's aim. That would be a good start at least.
Actually, on realistic publics (already closed Leo's CTF) there was a huge diversity of weapons picked by players. M79 was as good option as other weapons - not op at all.
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Moved the topic to where it belongs.
Please stop derailing news or other topics with random and unrelated posts in the future.
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Its a skill thing, for example , u cant play barret in public the same way you play in gathers.
I destroy everyone in public with barret, but on gathers I cant hit anyone, cuz they know how to deal with it.
At the same time, there are other players who barret on specific maps on gathers...skill..and brains
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It's all about the weapon's appeal.
"OH, THERE'S A SNIPER RIFLE, ONE BULLET ONE KILL"
Who says the same for a MP5 or Ruger? :P
Doesn't matter if you add 5 hours of delay or 0, they gonna choose it.
That's why I think you should remove this idiotic delay and work on the other aspects like reload time, bink and movementacc.
PS: Barrett with delay is not a Barrett. You can rename it to whatever you like, this is more a Tau Cannon (Half Life) than a classic sniper rifle.
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It's all about the weapon's appeal.
"OH, THERE'S A SNIPER RIFLE, ONE BULLET ONE KILL"
Who says the same for a MP5 or Ruger? :P
Doesn't matter if you add 5 hours of delay or 0, they gonna choose it.
That's why I think you should remove this idiotic delay and work on the other aspects like reload time, bink and movementacc.
PS: Barrett with delay is not a Barrett. You can rename it to whatever you like, this is more a Tau Cannon (Half Life) than a classic sniper rifle.
This, when I go public I only play barrett or m79 no matter what map. Just way funner & also last time I went public the zabajakakakaka server is now like 32 slot or something ridiculous? The reg is just terrible at this amount of players with most sprays/DE/rugar etc... so I just get annoyed playing any other gun.
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Another point: Do you want a Barrett in the game or other thing? If you want a Barrett, the classic sniper rifle that means 1 shot 1 kill. You have to know the consequences of it.
It is not about "easy" or "hard" to kill someone, it's about the weapon itself. It will be one hit one kill and doesn't matter the delay value.
I was puzzled when they added this non sense delay to the Barrett. This is not a Barrett (it doesn't have to be a realistic replica, but does not make sense). I really think that's a good time to remove this delay and do the right thing.
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I was puzzled when they added this non sense delay to the Barrett. This is not a Barrett (it doesn't have to be a realistic replica, but does not make sense). I really think that's a good time to remove this delay and do the right thing.
...and make FireInterval equal to 0. Also, I think we should fix that Barrett shoots with only one bullet. This is totally not fair because there's a possibility you could miss enemy's foot and one wouldn't die instantly. So for fixing this I think Barrett should fire with 5 bullets at least those would spread as in Spas (illustration attached). Speed and Damage of Battett's bullet is kept obviously. Also, we could give some chance (like 30%) that bullet will explode when hitting the target so it is more fun for "snipers" :)
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Troll mode off, would you?
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"Barret is balanced"
"AK wasn't nerfed/ruined at all"
(http://i.imgur.com/qlnFBcT.jpg)
Source: http://stats.soldat.space/ctf/weapons
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it's not about being op, it's about what's fun to play
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it's not about being op, it's about what's fun to play
The more kills one can make with least effort, the more fun.
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it's not about being op, it's about what's fun to play
The more kills one can make with least effort, the more fun.
That's why I said that this is a Barrett, the classic sniper rifle. No pro can kill another pro that easily using Barrett (AUG x Barret duel on 3x3 CTF). The problem is that the newbies or average players don't know how to use the automatic guns and push properly.
For me, the Barrett with this weird delay is not a Barrett. If you want nerf even more, rename it. Would be cool and more apropriate.
A Barrett between the other weapons simply don't fits the newbish game style. This is a fact.
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Just fix that f****** bug when proning in the air.
IMHO legs shot should not be lethal also other weapons should be able to zoom in a lil bit... Cause there's no chance with barret on open space.
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IMHO legs shot should not be lethal also other weapons should be able to zoom in a lil bit... Cause there's no chance with barret on open space.
1.7.0 -> 1.7.1 weapon mod changes:
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- Barret 15% less headshot damage and 10% more leg damage
...It was defenitely a sick idea to make it this way in 1.7.1 IMO too. Barret's motto was changed from "hit precisely" to "hit anywhere".
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it's not about being op, it's about what's fun to play
The more kills one can make with least effort
doesn't mean it's op, it means it's easy
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Barrett is the worst main weapon in the game, it sees barely any play in competitive play.
The reason as to why M79 and Barrett are leading in kills is because everyone plays them, because they want the 1 hit 1 kill, and want to be "epic snipers".
Just fix that f****** bug when proning in the air.
IMHO legs shot should not be lethal also other weapons should be able to zoom in a lil bit... Cause there's no chance with barret on open space.
Then you may as well remove the weapon, as it'll not see any competitive play, it'll be completely useless.
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Barrett is the worst main weapon in the game, it sees barely any play in competitive play.
The reason as to why M79 and Barrett are leading in kills is because everyone plays them, because they want the 1 hit 1 kill, and want to be "epic snipers".
SAME before the Barrett delay :) I remember the golden age.
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"Barret is balanced"
"AK wasn't nerfed/ruined at all"
(http://i.imgur.com/qlnFBcT.jpg)
Source: http://stats.soldat.space/ctf/weapons
It worries me that the top 3 weapons, are not even automatics.
m79 makes a bit of sense since movement has become a big part of soldat over the past 3/2 years.
however ruger and barret above anything else is just not the way I personally like it. (kind of proves that people prefer easy killing rather then good effort) then again we're looking at a publics report, and I have no idea how to calculate this out of all statistics. (not even sure if it's entirely the cause of the last weapon mod changes we had)
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It would be good to experiment with making Barret not 1-hit-kill to the legs, but make it reloaded right upon spawning. This might make it slightly less anti-fun to play against in pubs and also give it a competitive niche in stopping the EFC if you're spawning at an opportunate time and place. Other worthwhile changes to test might be lowering the firing delay and properly implementing a reliable, exponential bink system so that it is not played only as a camper weapon in pubs but auto-using enemies still have a chance 1v1.
Barret is very strong in pubs, but it's not only its strength that makes it popular. It's simply a fun and punchy weapon to play. This could be alleviated by simply giving the other guns more satisfying effects and audio without reducing the fun factor of the Barret.
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It would be good to experiment with making Barret not 1-hit-kill to the legs, but make it reloaded right upon spawning. This might make it slightly less anti-fun to play against in pubs and also give it a competitive niche in stopping the EFC if you're spawning at an opportunate time and place. Other worthwhile changes to test might be lowering the firing delay and properly implementing a reliable, exponential bink system so that it is not played only as a camper weapon in pubs but auto-using enemies still have a chance 1v1.
Barret is very strong in pubs, but it's not only its strength that makes it popular. It's simply a fun and punchy weapon to play. This could be alleviated by simply giving the other guns more satisfying effects and audio without reducing the fun factor of the Barret.
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This weapon is definitely too strong and many people talked about it.
in head = -100% hp
the rest of the body = - 80/90% hp
And i am very happy :D
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It would be good to experiment with making Barret not 1-hit-kill to the legs, but make it reloaded right upon spawning. This might make it slightly less anti-fun to play against in pubs and also give it a competitive niche in stopping the EFC if you're spawning at an opportunate time and place. Other worthwhile changes to test might be lowering the firing delay and properly implementing a reliable, exponential bink system so that it is not played only as a camper weapon in pubs but auto-using enemies still have a chance 1v1.
Barret is very strong in pubs, but it's not only its strength that makes it popular. It's simply a fun and punchy weapon to play. This could be alleviated by simply giving the other guns more satisfying effects and audio without reducing the fun factor of the Barret.
There isn't really a good way to balance the Barrett between competitive play and pub play. People are just gonna pick Barrett in pubs because it's an easy way to get a guaranteed kill, all you have to do is hit. In competitive play, where you have to move a lot, and you have a very limited amount of players, it's a huge risk with only moderate reward.
I think the most you could do is set a limit to how many people can wield barrett/m79 at a time, per team. While also making it so you can't pick it twice in a row, and if somebody in your team has picked up a m79/barrett other can't spawn with it.
In competitive I think a slight buff to fire interval is really all that can be done, it's always going to be a very niche weapon, and as long as it's not buffed to the point of being OP, it'll see very infrequent use.
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Do it FireInterval expressed shots per minute. How can I set a realistic rate of fire if all the data indicate a miniute..
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in head = -100% hp
the rest of the body = - 80/90% hp
I wouldn't be so greedy.
In most games, to take a one-shot-one-kill you have to hit the head. Yet, in Soldat, this isn't so simple. I guess legs should be like 50-60% but chest hit should be fatal still (at least on medium distances). Also, remember about reload time that is riddiculously low on Barret.
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There isn't really a good way to balance the Barrett between competitive play and pub play. People are just gonna pick Barrett in pubs because it's an easy way to get a guaranteed kill, all you have to do is hit. In competitive play, where you have to move a lot, and you have a very limited amount of players, it's a huge risk with only moderate reward.
I think the most you could do is set a limit to how many people can wield barrett/m79 at a time, per team. While also making it so you can't pick it twice in a row, and if somebody in your team has picked up a m79/barrett other can't spawn with it.
In competitive I think a slight buff to fire interval is really all that can be done, it's always going to be a very niche weapon, and as long as it's not buffed to the point of being OP, it'll see very infrequent use.
Yup Yup, the whole thing about the most popular games like League of Legends and Dota 2 giveing everybody different roles, that's one main source of fun.