Official Soldat Forums
Official Content => Soldat Developer Log => Topic started by: Shoozza on October 08, 2017, 10:25:33 am
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Hello everyone,
this week there was a lot background discussion, and less visible development.
Last week you asked if there we will see Soldat banner adds in Butcher and KAG.
I talked with the devs about it - At least for KAG there will be a banner for Soldat and L[one]R is thankfully helping with it.
I couldn't convince Monsteri to join the team again (for now) to continue his work on 1.8.
This means the graphics remake is currently uncertain. I briefly talked with L[one]R (as he was open to help) about it but it's a huge undertaking to say the least.
There is some behind the scenes stuff with other devs happening now.
I sadly cannot talk about (yet) but wanted to let you know that it requires time on other peoples and my part (and it certainly is important to soldat).
Last but not least there is a poll (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=44967.0) on what you want to see in 1.7.2, so go vote! There are quite a few unrealistic things in there so I'll have to filter them out later (they can be considered after 1.7.2 has been released or as a general hint where the development should head next).
And that's it for today. See you next week.
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See you next week.
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Guess it was abandoned again.
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I couldn't convince Monsteri to join the team again (for now) to continue his work on 1.8.
This means the graphics remake is currently uncertain. I briefly talked with L[one]R (as he was open to help) about it but it's a huge undertaking to say the least.
If you really think about getting new players, graphic should be in top5 things to do before putting it on steam. If few people like it or not. Its not even about whole overhaul but unification and polishing it.
And because of that I seriously dont see reason why to put it all in one man shoulder. What is stopping you from separating this problem to categories/smaller parts, creating unified descriptions and tips/examples for people, and look for help not only on forum but all around internet, because I hope you realize that Internet is not ending on Soldat forum... :]
There are lots of places where people ask/offer help(eg. gamedev.net) and I will not believe than no one have friend who will do some small work for this project.
Of course you could also just post list of what need to be done with descriptions/examples and just ask people on forum to make it, and I would bet my both hands that you would have bunch of work made already and just pick what you like, but for past years you literally F up it, so now you cant even do that because no one is here anymore... Still you can ask around on dev sites and friends of friends if they would do smaller jobs for free. all you need is list of what you need short descriptions/tips/examples and people will be happy to help because every new graphic artist would like to have game project in their portfolio. Especially if its small job that doesnt need lots of time. Its a matter of separating everything to the list/categories.
I sadly cannot talk about (yet) but wanted to let you know that it requires time on other peoples and my part (and it certainly is important to soldat).
And here we go again... Soldat is AAA game and everything need to be kept in secret. What is the point of that? Even if those are just uncertain plans, pure ideas in head. Put it on public and maybe someone could help with it or make better suggestions. Its not like you will lost ultra-mega secret that you kept hidden from competition... You should seriously think about it while there still people here(I can just guess that most of people check forum but just dont login, because there is no reason, its not like no one check soldat anymore, but people do it less often every month).
See you next week.
We hope it will not be Falcon style week :]
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Of course you could also just post list of what need to be done with descriptions/examples and just ask people on forum to make it, and I would bet my both hands that you would have bunch of work made already and just pick what you like
Yeah, I would like to try it and help this game in that way. Post this list and show few examples. Some people (like me) who just like draw in free time would help for sure. It's always better than nothing.
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Of course you could also just post list of what need to be done with descriptions/examples and just ask people on forum to make it, and I would bet my both hands that you would have bunch of work made already and just pick what you like
Yeah, I would like to try it and help this game in that way. Post this list and show few examples. Some people (like me) who just like draw in free time would help for sure. It's always better than nothing.
Yes, of course, I would like to help this game just because I love it, i'm an Animator, Designer, if you guys need and want some help just ask me.
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shooooozzaa help is offered at your feet right here!!
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Why do not you take akinaro remake? They require a slight adjustment from the front and back scenery
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Why do not you take akinaro remake? They require a slight adjustment from the front and back scenery
1. Because they suck.
2. Because they where made just for fun and to prove point that Soldat can look good.
3. Because I deleted all soldat related graphic long time ago.
4. Because I dont agree to use it, even if 90% of assets used on them where graphic from Soldat it self.
But mostly I had different idea of style for Soldat, that dont fit to what Monsteri made so far(he worked on unification of Soldat to more cartoon'ish look) even if Im not fan of that, his work so far was damn nice and putting anything different would make game unbalanced in terms of look.
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Why do not you take akinaro remake? They require a slight adjustment from the front and back scenery
1. Because they suck.
2. Because they where made just for fun and to prove point that Soldat can look good.
3. Because I deleted all soldat related graphic long time ago.
4. Because I dont agree to use it, even if 90% of assets used on them where graphic from Soldat it self.
But mostly I had different idea of style for Soldat, that dont fit to what Monsteri made so far(he worked on unification of Soldat to more cartoon'ish look) even if Im not fan of that, his work so far was damn nice and putting anything different would make game unbalanced in terms of look.
Akinaro what kind of "remake" you did? Do you have some images?
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Why do not you take akinaro remake? They require a slight adjustment from the front and back scenery
1. Because they suck.
2. Because they where made just for fun and to prove point that Soldat can look good.
3. Because I deleted all soldat related graphic long time ago.
4. Because I dont agree to use it, even if 90% of assets used on them where graphic from Soldat it self.
But mostly I had different idea of style for Soldat, that dont fit to what Monsteri made so far(he worked on unification of Soldat to more cartoon'ish look) even if Im not fan of that, his work so far was damn nice and putting anything different would make game unbalanced in terms of look.
Akinaro what kind of "remake" you did? Do you have some images?
Example:
(https://s26.postimg.org/ar5rv7gyx/Screen_Shot003.jpg)
I totally do not like the new style of graphics. And adds more resoultion mouse stopped working. The mouse does not move smoothly and has strong jumps of motion.
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Holly crap Dominik you chose literally the WORST map I maid -_-
As for my remakes, I deleted everything beside screenshots that I weirdly still have on Gdrive, so if want to check them look here: https://goo.gl/pThf9L
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Holly crap Dominik you chose literally the WORST map I maid -_-
As for my remakes, I deleted everything beside screenshots that I weirdly still have on Gdrive, so if want to check them look here: https://goo.gl/pThf9L
ohh nice remakes Akinaro really good, it's a pitty that they aren't used in actual soldat versions.
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Holly crap Dominik you chose literally the WORST map I maid -_-
As for my remakes, I deleted everything beside screenshots that I weirdly still have on Gdrive, so if want to check them look here: https://goo.gl/pThf9L
[fist] Cool remakes: Guardian, KotB (Bridge), MFM2, Blox, Bunker
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See you next week.
See you next week.
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Any updates?
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rip in peace
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rip in peace
No, it's not.
We are actively discussing everything in Discord these days. If you guys want to get some logs, I can talk to Shoozza personally and prepare short infos for you.
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Focus on graphics iz like pearls before swine.
What's wrong with you who think that what Soldat needs are better graphics. It'll change nothing except maybe in adding performance issues for some players.
This game is not about the graphics and has never been (..and will never be).
Even if all effort were put in the gfx it could never be such a game.
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Focus on graphics iz like pearls before swine.
What's wrong with you who think that what Soldat needs are better graphics. It'll change nothing except maybe in adding performance issues for some players.
This game is not about the graphics and has never been (..and will never be).
Even if all effort were put in the gfx it could never be such a game.
This is a public game, so look at it in WIDER PERSPECTIVE THAT YOUR OWN NOSE.
Soldat is dying/is dead because people like you who totally dont get it that game need to evolve, it need to gather players all the time, if you dont get new players you end in situation like we have right now: we have just bunch of old morons who dont want to touch the game because it remind them "good old days".
And why graphic? Because of three things:
1. Soldat never was nice looking game. It was always ugly and even in his best years, lots of people didnt play it because it was just mess.
2. If you want to get new players, especially from Steam, you need to present them something. Today players have millions of games they dont need stick to just one, most of them rate game by its look. First 30 second of gameplay or screenshots decide if he play it or not.
Gameplay? Balance? This come later when player get used to controls and game rules.
3. Graphic is most easiest think that you can fix right now. All you need is proper style balance and good looking maps and effects.
Of course Soldat in current stage is broken in lots of way, not only in graphic, sometimes its broken even in most important aspect of gameplay, but all games have such problems, but they cover it with fun or graphic. Soldat is hard game and to get proper fun you need time, and in that time you will see ugly graphic and menu straight from 1998. Average player on Steam was not even born in that time.
If you aiming high you need to have high standards, Soldat, if will hit the Steam, and lets just pray that it will not be in time as MM suggested because it will be suicide, It will need to compete with LOTS of casual 2d or even 3d games that have better marketing and know how to hit the player spot to make him install game. Soldat dont have it. It actually dont have anything beside nice gameplay that sadly need time to appreciate it.
You can cry that someone change look of your precious game, but from marketing/game perspective, its better to loose one whining player and get 10 new ones because of those changes.
rip in peace
No, it's not.
We are actively discussing everything in Discord these days. If you guys want to get some logs, I can talk to Shoozza personally and prepare short infos for you.
So its so damn hard to spend literally one or two minutes to write what is going on ON OFFICIAL GAME FORUM?
If you cant managed to keep proper record and informations on game, I dont want to know how you work on game...
Especially when Shoozza, as main dev, ensured that he will keep everyone updated, quote from month ago: "See you next week."
You could literally spend that month counting comas in code, or draw boobs on maps, its not so hard to write about it.
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I get that the game needs to evolve, so you're wrong there. I'd love some relevant improvement. The gfx never was a problem.
You're simply wrong about graphics. Graphics are not important, that's that. It will not be the basis of attration for new players and I'm astounded that you cannot realize this :-\
Instead of presenting the possible Steam-players with "HD graphics" you could present them a decent "retro-design" instead.
The menus could use some improvement, sure. But again, gfx itself is not the problem. Move around some menus and buttons and it'll be fine, no artist required here.
I don't really cry over the change in graphics, I'm not sentimental. I just don't want devs precious time to be wasted on shit when they could actually improve the game instead.
And this is one whining player you won't lose no matter what, but you can definitely forget those 10 new ones if you follow the gfx-track.
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Again, look at that problem from wider perspective, not just your personal preferences.
If you would spend some time actually checking gaming industry, marketing and average player needs/likes you would understand what I was writing.
Especially take in to the account current market of indie games. Trend for that type of games i long time gone. People again moved to mmo.
And if you, AGAIN, look at this problem from wider perspective you would know that Soldat dont have any marketing or capabilities to advertise game just by showing "retro-design" old school shooter. Most of people have no idea about Soldat, so you need to treat opportunity of releasing game on steam to get new players, and just look at any statistic and trends of players, you have lots of sources to see that starting from steam it self ending in site that gather such statistic, or just looking at other forums and players.
Soldat can aim to get older players to play again but not without a reason those players stopped playing. It can aim for this small percentage of players that still prefer old school 2d shooters, but most of them knew Soldat and know why no one play it. Or it can fit to market and interest new players by presenting proper visual style, global statistic system and proper customization, because those things are "must have" for any multiplayer game today. And as far as stats and customization need to be done in game it self by programmers. Graphical aspect can made without touching game it self, because soldat fortunately is somehow "modular" and graphic of maps or menu could be done without too much "under the hood" work.
And its obvious that you dont really get it, because its not like ALL of devs would work on graphic, its a matter of finding few graphic artist to do it, but sadly dev team have no idea how to use community and external help(because they would use it long time ago), so for most of time they try to put all work on one man shoulder(for example Monsteri). They have no idea that you can actually separate that problem to parts and just ask around the internet to get help with that, there are lots of people who would love to help and get this work on their portfolio. Because if you dont have proper dev team and resources, you look for help in community. Its a matter of spending some time searching on services/forums that gather artist/programmers.
Also no one say that graphic need to be in the first place. Of course its important to fix problems and implement other "must have" features(eg statistics system, proper customization), because stats are one of most important things in today online games. But unification and improving visual aspect of the game should have priority over other things.
If you not get it just do simple test, show random players on forums/sites typical soldat screenshot of menu and game, and check their reaction, or better just give them game and see how long they gonna play it. You would understand that today players are caressed by games, there are millions of them and because of that if player dont like something he move to other product.
As I said soldat dont have any advertising capabilities, it cant get players by just saying how cool gameplay is, and its history and few remaining players would probably scare away new players, so its need something to keep players, and one of this thing is proper, unified graphic. its just a part of bigger plan but its easiest to make right now and no matter of changes in game core, all that work can be used anyway. There are only pluses here.
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And its obvious that you dont really get it, because its not like ALL of devs would work on graphic, its a matter of finding few graphic artist to do it, but sadly dev team have no idea how to use community and external help(because they would use it long time ago), so for most of time they try to put all work on one man shoulder(for example Monsteri). They have no idea that you can actually separate that problem to parts and just ask around the internet to get help with that, there are lots of people who would love to help and get this work on their portfolio. Because if you dont have proper dev team and resources, you look for help in community. Its a matter of spending some time searching on services/forums that gather artist/programmers.
This.
All you have to do is: take a look at the old SoldatForums and how the community was engaged.
Anyone's work was important. Looks like nowadays even if you have some abilities or good ideas... it doesn't matter.
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Speaking of gfx/game design. I think the graphics (and the game itself) needs to get more edgy, cheeky and controversial (sigvatr style). Soldat for sure has the potential.
ie less this
(https://i.imgur.com/1JJUKbG.png)
more this
(https://i.imgur.com/9tQnhk3.jpg)
I am glad the development still keeps going btw. Thanks for info.
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So you basically want to force on game your preferred style.
Because its a matter of looking for your previous post to see that you are biased toward candy-pixelated style.
I hope you know that its public game, played by lots of people, and I can ensure you that not so much people would like that pixel-chaos that you like so much. Someone could actually say that it would be huge downgrade that could broke game and scare away any new player.
Of course that pixelated style have its own charm, but I personally think that you would not only dont get new players, but scare way old players.
As often as I mention need for change I didnt suggest anything because Its not one man decision. For that you doing market research, few concept arts and show them as many people as you can. It dont cost ANYTHING beside some time, and after that you would get basic idea of what people need.
Also honestly, this pixelated style that you are so fond of, can be actually be made as a mod... its a matter of downgrading everything to just bunch of pixels... so its not really development of game.
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"market researching, asking people what they want, evaluation, ..." usually never leaded to interesting results. It leads to game without balls.
The real gems with soul are crafted by strong stubborn artists/developers with opinion, driven by intuition, randomness and spontaneity, with sense for experiment.
Edit:
I hope you know that its public game, played by lots of people, and I can ensure you that not so much people would like that pixel-chaos that you like so much. Someone could actually say that it would be huge downgrade that could broke game and scare away any new player.
Soldat was never meant for pussies.
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Your post just prove sad thing that not only you live in your own world not really compatible with reality, and your lack of imagination end in mumbling about pussies...
What graphic style of game have to do to game it self: its gameplay, hardness and features? You think that creating 8bit pixel style make Soldat for "Real men", and unifying it and polishing it to other style make it for "pussies"?
What retarded reasoning is that?!
But in the same time you also weirdly pointed something that I mentioned few times in recent years: No one in dev team have balls to push Soldat further.
Because yes, game need heavy hand, especially in such times where game literally dying, but that heavy hand need to know what its doing.
Good developer do his job as he like, but it know what people need, know how to advertise game. Because you can create game that is perfect in your opinion in every way... but no one gonna play it.
Oh yeah, you would have the balls to make pixelated heaven with lots of action, but without proper preparation you will shoot and miss market and your game will be just another drop in the sea.
You see, this is difference between summer friend project where bunch of guys make a game, and proper game project that aim to gather as many players as possible and in the same time earn money, or fame(depending what you want).
You can spend years creating game "not for pussies", and no one gonna even look at it because you F up its marketing, you would create your own toy and hope that you gather players with similar taste like yours.
Because you see WE HAVE your mentioned ""real gems with soul"", its called "Soldat". But to give it attention it deserve you need to somehow fit it to market. Soldat already have what good game need, right now all you need do to is polish it, make it appealing for average player, put inside some features that modern player need and learn to advertise it.
Approach like you have is not helping at all, and just prove the point that most of remaining players are old morons who just want toy for them self that will remind them old times.
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more this
(https://i.imgur.com/9tQnhk3.jpg)
Are you drunk?
I am glad the development still keeps going btw.
Due to the recent "break" in releasing new dev logs it's a bit debatable.
Focus on graphics iz like pearls before swine.
What's wrong with you who think that what Soldat needs are better graphics.
Well, it's not just him: https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=44967.0
Besides, what makes you believe that other things are gonna get fixed real time soon if ever? I don't think we're going to have an anti-cheat any time soon. Eats have not been fixed since ever. Is this suddenly gonna change? No. Matchmaking/in-game gather system is a lot of work and there's like one dev to deal with all of it.
Today's gamers give a lot of shit about the gfx. The thing is to make them at least try to play Soldat. They may find out it's a bit buggy in many ways but at least they will give it a shot.
It'll change nothing except maybe in adding performance issues for some players.
What?! How could that possibly happen? It's a damn 2D game. A set of pictures those change their orientation. Besides, what do you want to keep it compatible with? Soldat eats like 65 MB RAM. A random smarthphone has 2 GB of RAM. PCs have at least 512 MB and if the trend (http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/) continues in next 2 year they will extinct. Should we really targeting these people? Less than 0.02% of all Steam players?
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gg to deathdat
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goddamn Akinaro, even if you have a point I would suggest you work on how you get that point across, the "you are retarded, i know everything, you know nothing, do as i say" attitude never convinced anyone
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Go check old forum post, you will find people who say what they think by licking dev ass prising everything they say, people who say what they think by presenting concepts, mockups and other assets, people who say what they think by shouting with CAPS, people who say what they think by posting plain, robotic text.
No matter how you write that no one give a crap. You could post here, right now, whole project structure with graphics, code, ideas, detailed informations and plan for advertising... and still no one would give a crap, and actually most of people would whine that you "did that wrong", you "change that, so its now suck", bla bla bla...
As for me, yes, I have a point, and its actually funny that some of you cant understand that some people actually know some stuff, even if its basic stuff.
Life is not end on Soldat, some people actually help with other games with similar situation, some of us actually make game by our self, some of us actually work for money creating game assets. Im spending lots time helping smaller devs with stuff, especially in android app/games. Im doing my own stuff too, I spend lots of time helping running my father workshop that, trust me, its harder than making a game. I had with me few courses of marketing and planing, mostly because I want to finish few of my projects. Its not much, its not stricte related to games, but it helped me a lot for past years.
So yeah, I dont mind having such attitude, because I think I know what Im talking about, especially when we talk here about basic stuff, that you dont really need any course, its a matter of backing up few steps and see this situation from other, wider perspective.
Also Im not forcing anyone to do anything, that the difference, Im not trying to put on anyone my ideas. Im repeating the same thing over and over: Make a proper plan, make it public to community to discuss, ask for community help, look for help in other places, focus on getting new players, not petting old ones, unify and polish look of game, implement basic stats system that every multiplayer game today need. The End.
Im not even forcing devs to use any specific graphic style, Im not forcing on them anything, Im just pointing obvious things that everyone see but no one want to talk about, is it rude? F yeah, but its not my fault, Im just saying what they did/didnt do, everyone can see that, but no one give a crap.
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Release date is still December 21?
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goddamn Akinaro, even if you have a point I would suggest you work on how you get that point across, the "you are retarded, i know everything, you know nothing, do as i say" attitude never convinced anyone
Heh, I've been ignoring his posts entirely for a while now. Way too much effort to filter wheat from the chaff, which is unfortunate because it does seem like there are some good points buried in there somewhere.
Release date is still December 21?
I've asked Shoozza about this earlier and he hasn't given a straight answer yet, though at least he's aware of the concerns about releasing on that date.
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Any news? It's 2 weeks till deadline and we still didn't get any significant information. Don't treat this community like a shit.
See you next year.
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Akinaro, your posts are too long. Wtf man.
"It's obvious you don't rly get it". Oh please, you're full of shit. Of course devs don't put 100% time on graphics, but even 10% would be too much. It's obvious you're just a silly child fascinated by colours, glitter and confetti [pigtail]
What?! How could that possibly happen? It's a damn 2D game. A set of pictures those change their orientation. Besides, what do you want to keep it compatible with? Soldat eats like 65 MB RAM. A random smarthphone has 2 GB of RAM. PCs have at least 512 MB and if the trend (http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/) continues in next 2 year they will extinct. Should we really targeting these people? Less than 0.02% of all Steam players?
You assume everyone has a decent computer and a smartphone. Meh. Let's disregard poor people!
I'm sure it's been mentioned; modding and mapmaking is harder since the resolution-upgrade.
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See you next year.
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nuclear war is gonna take place before we see the next soldat release lol
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Posting this mini-"devlog" here on behalf of Shoozza (talked to him on Discord):
Little progress is being made at the moment for a number of reasons, so there isn't enough to write a devlog about. A devlog will be posted whenever there is some progress. Though there was work done to fix some of the server-side exploits, and he also "played with team mute commands". So there's that.
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I think it's high time to have a proper countdown
http://soldatonsteamitsreallyhappening.soldat.space/
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I think it's high time to have a proper countdown
http://soldatonsteamitsreallyhappening.soldat.space/
;D
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I think it's high time to have a proper countdown
http://soldatonsteamitsreallyhappening.soldat.space/
;D
steam release will be delayed until steam winter sale is over, .. shoozza should probably post something about that in time