Official Soldat Forums
Soldat Talk => General Discussions => Topic started by: Coconutmilk on January 23, 2018, 10:28:16 pm
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Dear MM,
I have been an active Soldat player since 2005-2006. I have acted as an administrator in North American Soldat communities, namely Fractured and #sna.gather; I am a former SCTFL Helper; and I created #soldat.tv, which has streamed SCTFL Playoff matches on the twitch.tv platform since around 2010/2011.
When I was first told of the Soldat Discord, I was skeptical simply because SCTFL 29 had so little activity, and I couldn't imagine anyone returning. Boy, was I wrong! manofoneway stuck to his guns, and today we have a Soldat discord that is thriving, with gathers being played every day. Old players are returning in waves to reconnect and play. We have new blood joining the gather scene. It has been very fun and exciting to see people who haven't played in 5+ years playing competitive games with new people who have been barely gathering one month.
However, we have a problem: despite rapid "grassroots" growth, and strong efforts from community leaders to bring Soldat into 2018, the "official" side of the game -- THD -- is not reciprocating. The developer you gave us, Shoozza, is unresponsive; for two months (from 2017-10-08 to 2017-12-10) the community received virtually no official communication and 0 status updates. During this period, Shoozza also severed all contact with players and made himself invisible to the community. From 2017-12-10 to the present day, communications remain extremely limited. The developer you gave us is indifferent to what the active community sees in the future of this game, both in new platforms like Discord and Steam -- and in attracting a new generation with new assets/GUI/accessibility and a new vision. The developer you gave us is disinterested in realistic initiatives proposed by community members willing and prepared to contribute for free to projects advancing Soldat -- projects which would significantly lessen Shoozza's workload and increase the quality of the final release. The developer you gave us was a bad choice. Here are just a few instances illustrating what we feel is a profound failure on Shoozza's behalf to properly manage this game's future.
Prior to this event (http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=56460.0) on November 19th, Soldat gather servers and public servers were being attacked using an exploit in the server-side client. Server owners were unable to do anything to combat this attacker. Shoozza was notified immediately, and he stated his intentions to release a hotfix, but no action was taken in the short-term; these attacks continued for weeks. On the day of the event, 32+ online players were left disappointed and unable to play because of this exploit. Earlier in the very same day -- instead of working on the hotfix -- Shoozza spent hours giving detailed instructions to the Discord staff regarding reordering and renaming channels. This perplexed many of the Gather Admins and Super Admins, since, as mentioned before, Shoozza had been aware of the attacks for weeks, but chose to waste his time randomly giving orders instead of working on the game. Thankfully the DDOS attacks have stopped and a fix was introduced by Soldat server owners, however this fix has broken helpful tools such as Soldatladder.
Shoozza has also received a near-continuous stream of offers from community members who desire to work on the game. Dicko, Sting, and Helloer have all offered help in the past. Some items on their respective agendas include: reviving the beta team and providing a project manager, bugfixes and netcode improvements, and development of a stable anticheat (since we cannot afford to pay for BattlEye anymore). However, Shoozza has turned everyone away. I am by no means an expert, but brushing off Dicko (whose real-life career is in game dev QA) seems more than foolish when we are a MONTH past release with no updates as to any sort of timeline. We also have spent years without an anticheat. Y E A R S.
This (http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=55754.0) is the current list of banned hackers.
These (http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=42493.0) are (http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=45720.0) two (relatively) recent SCTFL finals that have been ruined by hackers.
Considering the competitive scene is a dedicated, MAJOR force in this game's survival, this is a pretty poor way to treat your community. We -- the competitive scene -- play Soldat because it offers something no other shooter offers. A fast paced shooter, where movement and aim are both required to reach the top. People have so many different styles of playing, and employ different tactics, from fast paced attacking to slow defending. What ruins this is when any person can get hacks off the internet and completely negate any hard work these players have put in to their game. It leaves a bitter taste in their mouth. We aren't asking for a VAC style anticheat, we understand and accept that we don't have the money and resources to obtain such a program. However, when you turn away Helloer, a person willing to try and create an anticheat that will catch the most public of hacks, it brings a major concern to many minds. Is your ego more important than the health of the game and community that has stuck by it for years? Not to mention the lost work on the native Linux/Mac versions.
If QB and DarDar can have a semblance of a relationship in trying to find the perfect WM for the next Soldat version, why can't Shoozza maintain a relationship with anyone who has attempted to help Soldat. Quit your beefing with Helloer, it's 2018.
The fact that Shoozza did some of the least work out of all the developers (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=44931.0) is telling. He was removed for a reason. Why is one of the people with the least amount of work done in charge?
As of today (1/23/2018), Shoozza has yet to rejoin the Soldat Discord. When he was here, he was inactive, treated players with contempt, and had no interest in what the staff said or suggested. He would randomly come online, make demands regarding how to run the discord and regarding how the community should behave, then abruptly leave. Speaking for the community, we have been this way for years. Yes we are toxic, yes we do flame each other, players who have played this game for years. We poke fun and banter with each other. However, we do have rules set in place for newer players; we do not aggressively flame new players. Players who violate this principle are punished or warned by gather admins. We understand we are not the best community on earth, but without us, this game would be much weaker -- and its chances for survival even lower. When Shoozza does things such as trying to eliminate all swear words from Discord, it shows how not only out of touch he is with the community, but how he uses his power for unnecessary things. Instead of fixing/developing the game, he wastes his time trying to change the gather community.
When Steam release does eventually come, we understand that this is the only chance we will get to bring new players from pubs into gathers, and hopefully into the clan scene. We want the days back where we had 100+ clans in SCTFL, all competing and having fun. With Steam release, we are hopeful for a little Soldat renaissance, with more old players returning and more new players coming in to give the game a shot. We have great momentum now, with 1,016 members in the Soldat discord.
The steam release was delayed to (end of) January but considering progress on my part and on the trailer/art I wouldn't necessary bet on it :/
I'm currently struggling to open up enough quality free time to make development progress in a pace that doesn't disappoint me and everyone else.
It's almost like a one man dev team can't do it all.
If things don't change, all this momentum will go down the drain. We will never have another season of SCTFL, old players that have come back will be crestfallen by the same-old stagnation, and the Steam release will be a flop. The game that was on its deathbed years ago will go back into the grave. I gave Shoozza weeks before I posted this to see if anything would change. Nothing did.
Please make the right choice.
Sincerely,
Coconutmilk
The People's Champion
Best Caster NA and EU
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Thank you for voicing these anxieties and problems with where Soldat is right now. The People's Champion fights for all the PEOPLE of Soldat who are disillusioned with the current state of development. We can create a better future for this game, but things need to get back on the right track. I'm afraid that only MM can help us there.
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The switch from IRC to Discord was one of the most controversial decisions in Soldat history. Most old players thought it would only splinter the community further, while bringing in no new blood. Yet the switch to Discord - and the amazing work put in by those who run it - is definitively one of the best choices made in this game's history. Gathers haven't been this active in ages.
It would be a shame to waste this momentum.
+1 for collaboration among peers.
+1 for camaraderie between the old players and the new.
+1 for the the people's champ.
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If anyone should've been approached for steam release, it should've been Helloer.
From an outside perspective, Falcon appeared to do fine. Seemingly he did take a break, which did upset Helloer who had put in a lot of effort.
Falcon does seem to be much more approachable, and willing to cooperate. I can't see how either Helloer or Falcon is a worse option than Shoozza.
The person in "power" now, seem to be more concerned about being in power, rather than actually doing what's best for soldat (developing it in this case). However, that goes for a lot of soldats community. Some people are more in it for the power, the power to ban whoever they dislike, or decide things for soldat only for the reason that it's they who decide, rather than what's best for the community and the game.
As somebody who was banned for 5 years for flaming (originally permanent, but after 4.5 years it was reduced), as a teenager, from #soldat.gather, and then banned from #sna.gather and #na.gather for "obvious hacking" and "suspicious play". I think these permanent bans, and the length of the bans are excessive.
I believe a lot of the people who are banned now are banned for something they did half a decade ago, usually when they were mid teens, or have done now in their teens. To ban these individuals permanently for various reasons is just cruel (offenses that more liked people get away with), complete lack of empathy. In the cases of flaming, options such as muting could be explored.
I don't believe these people are fit to be admins, and whoever owns the discord channel should consider redistributing the admin power. Anyone can afford hosting the servers, it's something like 10euro a month, that is a non-issue when it comes to distributing the admin power.
This does include ricr, as he's one of the admins who have previously banned me for no reason, other than contempt. I can't quite tell who more, because I can't see the full admin list atm. I believe there's a fair few more who shouldn't have admin power.
If QB and DarDar can have a semblance of a relationship in trying to find the perfect WM for the next Soldat version
This unfortunately isn't happening. As for now, the extent seem to be going to is simply to avoid open hostility. Of course, I could be wrong, darDar could is just be too busy to answer messages, over a week or so.
As known, my opinion is, if he's too busy it would likely be better to leave it up to somebody else. This isn't a position which has been assigned by expertise, nor experience.
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+1 I completely agree. Well said and written my friend!
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This is soldat's last hurrah, this is the time in our epic history that we stand together and put aside bad blood for the good of the whole. Soldat means more to people than some are even willing to admit, it has impacted peoples lives in ways that other games cannot possibly. I have been playing the game in no lower than 216 ping often 50% of the time at 333 for 6 years, longer than i played it in glorious 30 ping sinply because nothing compares to this game, i would rather grind away like water against a stone at a game this amazing in 216 ping than any modern game that i can achieve 5 in; and lastly To not use the rich wealth of knowledge skill and expertise within the community of players that is being offered freely to us is absurd. Please for the love of the beautiful game you created MM, please make the right decision and help us.
god bless the peoples champ and god bless soldat.
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Shoozza is not good choose for dev, but also not bad. He is not perfect at all, but messing with Soldat code is not like playing with Unity or UE engine, it need some self-denial to probably even start working with it... But still in those past YEARS, Soldat was under his hand and its obvious that in those YEARS Soldat should be WAY better optimized and prepared to evolve to something better.
Its, also true that he have no fricking idea how to cooperate with community and his workflow remind cat that dont know if he should sleep or take a nap, but he is not alone, Falcon was even worst at that(For both of them any negative comment or complain is "drama" or "hate speech")
Helloer is asshole, but somehow in a good way, so It was a bit sad that he was "not compatible" with soldat development that grow up for past years. And that lazy soldat development is a reason why no one really want to really get to the work with it. Soldat right now is filled with old players who "want changes" but "dont want changes". All those people who are still here, would rather play their private gathers, cry about WM, but dont really change anything.
I write about it many time, and I got bored by repeating it over and over. So I just say that once again in simple way:
-Soldat is not a game, its summer project of few friends. It will never rise up or even hit Steam properly because no one here treat it like a game.
-There is no proper marketing for it(no proper advertising no, fanbase communication, no system for supporting game via donations or patreon). Even 5 bucks a month is good way to spend on advertising.
-There is no proper development structure: Its basically one man job for most of time, and dev team almost always put big work to one man shoulders, like for example graphic and map making. Instead of separating it to smaller jobs and ask community for help.
-There is no one here who would encourage community to help, focus on getting new players, not nurse old players who will complain about even smallest changes.
-Dev team dont even consider getting help from outside(because they would do it long time ago). There is lots of people with experience who would like to put such game in their portfolio, even for free. Especially graphic aspect of game could be done by now. But they prefer getting one men(eg Monsteri) and ask him to do all work.
Overall, Soldat is F up, mostly because job that devs want to do now, should be made YEARS ago.
Its not like Soldat is year old, Devs had FRICKING YEARS to prepare optimize soldat and prepare it for new era. YEARS....
MM as author of Soldat also really suck at his job, Soldat have HUGE potential, and he just literally dump it. He dont really cared much about state of it, He didnt really direct dev team to move forward, to focus on making game better for new players that have their needs. because market is saturated with games, first minute of playing decide about everything, and even amazing gameplay of Soldat cant really fix first first impression: "the hell is that?!".
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This (http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=55754.0) is the current list of banned hackers.
These (http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=42493.0) are (http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=45720.0) two (relatively) recent SCTFL finals that have been ruined by hackers.
[...]
However, when you turn away Helloer, a person willing to try and create an anticheat that will catch the most public of hacks, it brings a major concern to many minds.
The list is kind of incomplete. This is what actually HAPPENED (http://www.sctfl.net/forums/index.php?topic=56329.msg277478#msg277478) during last SCTFL season when Helloer run his test version of his own antihack detecting public hacks. As you can see above, the banlist involved a wide range of players, most of whom advanced into playoffs. Luckily for the staff, Helloer's basic AC caught them a week before playoffs kicked off. I think i don't have to mention that those players would have probably hacked their way into the finals if it hadn't been for Helloer. so yeah.. that pretty much sums up the current situation and what we have to deal with.
And yeah, i agree with COCO, all these promises.. this is frustrating. Let this game develop to its full potential finally, god damn. I think MM doesn't even realise that this game is a hidden gold that is kept away from being discovered for some reason. I still think Soldat can be a big success
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I agree with COCO =)
If you can't deliver then just release source code and we will find out own developer.
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100% agree with Coco
#MAKESOLDATGREATAGAIN
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True True True Shoozza is very bad :)
Shoozza is not good choose for dev, but also not bad. He is not perfect at all, but messing with Soldat code is not like playing with Unity or UE engine, it need some self-denial to probably even start working with it... But still in those past YEARS, Soldat was under his hand and its obvious that in those YEARS Soldat should be WAY better optimized and prepared to evolve to something better.
Ohhh true!!! I watched how soldat lost its popularity and the optimization has worsened ... I'm not talking here about FPS...
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How control hackers if player join to server player download weapon.mod and load mod. But this be end. Hackers can change download weapon mod and next can use modify weaponmod.
Player can also create simple radar hack change download bariable realistic = from soldat ini. Soldat decect this if player have variable change all time but if he set variable to last orgial value. I know how to do a simple antycheat, for 97% popular hack beyond anti aimbot. Players will be able to do a bypass but it will be for really skilled hackers.
The biggest problem is no start time, no bink, and no movement. All "pro players barrett" using this...
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I've never say bad word to devs but it is just too much. Shoozza gave as a hope and some concrete informations about steam release date and then just dissapeared. There is nothing worse than it. I can understand that people may not have time for work like this but then, why you even agreed to become a devteam leader? If you can't manage to do these few things which you mentioned in to do list then please just leave it to somebody else. Coco did more by writing this post than you for a last few months. What are we waiting for atm? For MM's post about trailer competition? And then next year till somebody do it? Or there are more important things? But please dont tell us that some "bad things happens beyond the scene"
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Unfortunately everything that has been said right here in this topic is the hard truth.
We've waited waited and waited all of these years to reach a mountaintop. That tiny sparkling hope of getting what we all what.
SOLDAT in it's best form with a huge community finalized with great visuals and gameplay.
We as community have been let down so many times that it's actually unbelievable post like these still need to be made.
What drives us to do this? what has happened all these years that we're actually still caring about this game?
Have we gone insane? the thing we want is it impossible..? are we over our heads?
Why are we still here?
Questions like these should tell you enough.
The fact that so many people come back after the small invented change of getting gathers back up proves we're still all over this game. WE NEVER LEFT!
I'm not going to be some kind of riddle-man over here, but if any of those questions still have any value to you then please make a final decision about how you want this game to move forward OR put an end to it.
It is ridiculous to see that some people still deliver hard work for this game to keep it flowing and not giving up but with what end? We're being promised things and what do we get in return?
Don't waste our time and effort.
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Also its good to mention that: Yes its free work in devs free time. But if someone accept to work with it he should do 100% in that free time he decided to work.
Not to mention that we talk here about years, even if someone would spend hour of work per week on it, soldat should be in WAY BETTER condition that its now. That tell us that for past years someone just screw things up.
If you know that you can barely spend time working on it. Leave it. It would be better to have no development than never ending comedy like we have now.
Also(Im saying this again) no one from devs treat it as proper game but some weekend project to mess with. If someone would have balls long time ago, when there is lots of people here ready to help, we would have proper dev team separated to do their jobs, everything would be clear and public available so people could discuss it.
There would be donation/patreon that would gather money for advertising/help.
There would be Open topic where devs would just ask for help doing contests to make stuff for game, and there would be willingness to get help in work from other places than players.
Also prepare for typical closing topic: DONT DO DRAMA.
Sorry, this is not drama, this is reality.
No one here should act like some CNN saint person calling every negative thing "hate speech" or "drama". Just deal with it and defend what you did.
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Everything Coco has said is the truth. Every game is being kept alive by it's competetive scene, also there are in fact games where developers work with and ask competetive scene for tips, because they are the factor that drives more and more people to play such game and become good at it. Soldat has been lacking significant changes for ages. Moving to discord was a good decision that in longer term would allow new players to step into competetive gameplay way more easly than it was with mIRC.
Being a part of competetive scene for ages now I have never felt that we, as a whole, had ever been listened to if it came to changing something in the game. Weapon mode was getting easier and easier each version and if it were not for my bad PC then I'd do the same what many people did - I'd leave. People don't spend hours, some days, some of us even years to become good at some game just to be forced to adapt to changes. No game ever does that. If they would change a pattern of recoil in CS GO the game competetive scene would probably ragequit and game itself would stop making money. Yes it is a way for the new players to step up but imho they should step up by training hard to adjust to what the game has been all the time. By changing something such crucial as is weapon mode you're only risking a drop of activity because old players might not like it and new players would play the game otherwise, wanting to adjust to competetive scene.
I know I'm not tolerated by many players due to my history with hacking, but I started to play this game in december 2007 and got caught hacking in november 2008. Since then I've been working my ass of in polish and international scene to catch as many hackers as I could. Players who might confirm that are no longer active unfortunately. However my doings are not the subject here. What I want to say is that Coco is right. I'm not into Soldat these days since the game lost it's appeal to me but if the fact that Shoozza rejected help in making an anticheat then I'm trully concerned if there is even a point of brining this game on Steam. It will be cool for several days, weeks, perhaps even months, but then it will cause a backlash, new players that will come up with Steam will quit as soon as they find out that this game will never have working anticheat. They will rate this game and the word will get out that downloading this game has no sense.
Hacking is the huge factor when it comes to Soldat being a decent game but not the highest. The thing that drove many of us insane and costed us so many nerves that we can no logner count it is hits. As far as I know this is the only game I have played in my entire life in which shooting player desn't actually mean we hit. I don't know how does it work exactly, if bullets are not registered to hit target or it's due to latency (ping) but I think it's just poorly coded. Back then when I stated to play this game in 1.4.2 there were no such things like surviving 3 nades, boosting yourself out of 3 nades or surviving your own m79 boost that went directly under your feet. As it game grew older the hits were worse and worse each damn version. The official version of why we (Insomnia) have lost SCTFL21 is due to M4ro hacking (I'd bet he wasn't the only one, Morvan, Wanted, Skuwer hacked too) but to be honest with you guys even them hacking couldn't stop us to win on that day. We knew from the start that the match was going to be very very hard since we all knew that M4ro and Skuwer were hacking and we had to face them. We managed to win 2 out of 4 maps and we got robbed of our victory or even a chance to play another map because of one fucking hit that made me quit this game forever (I did play it after but I never did it seriously from that point). Morvan was rushing top on Ash, we were all dead or smth (cant remember and there are no demos/streams to watch) but we did managed to throw 3 grenades on the flagspot. Clearly this wasn't enough for him to boost himself so he threw another 2 nades and got boosted top with half HP left. The hacks didn't cost us the win, the hit did. However I do not think it is entirely based on online gaming. I do remember hits playing vs. bots when I tested some shots with law/barret.
That being said we have to do few things in order to get this game playable again.
1. Take away Shoozza dev and give it to someone who actually cares. If no, make it open source so we can do this ourselves.
2. Fix hits or atleast if it is not possible make them less noticable, more rare. I do understand a chances of it happening playing EU vs NA when there is actually a big difference in ping but EU vs. EU should never happen.
3. Make any anticheat that will stop public hacks. Make some kind of permission for someone who will not play competetivly to search for hacks, test them offline, then online on designated server and report them so they can be stopped.
4. On this one we all have to focus and find out the solution. If we want Soldat to live long and well and become a golden that it trully might be, we must think of some way to make devs earn real money on it. Without money they can act like Shoozza and treat it like they playground for dumbest ideas. Microtransactions are golden when it comes to games. But given the fact we have graphics that would be of no use for microtransactions we have to come up with another idea. Ads in main manu, small ones, premium pass to block them. Possibility to buy (not rent) your own server and set it up however you want, option to rent servers if you cant afford to buy it. Add in game refferences to SCTFL since it's the longest living league community and it deserved to be called Soldat Official League. Add levels symstems which will give you nothing but opportunity to brag about it, make it possible to buy passes for getting xp quicker.
5. By using gathered money buy some prizes or find sponsors for them. Small ones like headphones/keyboards/mouses/pendrives/mousepads/servers or anything you thing is better. Use those to make people play your league/cup. Of course if it would be active we old fags would play it regardless of prizes just to show again who is the best.
6. Create official twitch/youtube channel for all the events. Create something like best moments of the day/week/month yt movies. Encourage players to stream gathers/public games/event games because this is what people like about watching streams. To learn from it. Also use the donations if they will occure to support point 5.
7. Delete Rambomatch/Pointmatch.
8. Create cups/leagues using 2v2 and 3v3 format.
9. Make more maps or bring all those that you've rejected like Maya/Mayapan/Equinox and remake them so they can be playable.
It is a lot of work to do but if you want this game to be successful and even make some money (who knows). I do love this game for the time I spent with it and the people I met with whom I still have contact regardless thay are not playing it anymore neither do I. But it has been really painful to watch something with such potentail led to waste by some who doesn't care about it.
Cheers.
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I think it'd be a nice idea to cut Shoozza some slack here. Because of the community's reactions, he essentially has the weight of the world on his shoulders with little to no encouragement.
Also, it should be worth pointing out that despite no new releases/bugs being fixed, the discord gather community has been thriving.
I'm trying to not engage in drama or mudslinging and remain positive, because there are positives.
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Shoozza is not the problem. He is doing this for free and for the love of the game, you guys are killing his love for the community and with it his will to do anything.
You think that he should work 100% on Soldat because he agreed to be lead developer, but I say doing something is better than doing nothing!
Have you noticed how much stuff the community actually asks for? I think some of you are self-centered, but just try to imagine for a moment that you would implement all the suggestions the community asks for through various forums, private messages and chat programs, while simultaneously deal with hackers, flamers, banning, urgent issues, updates, reading various forums, questions and discussions. I could go on trying to come up with all the tasks Shoozza has but you get the point.
However, I agree with you on one thing. Since the community obviously want bigger things for soldat than any one man can deliver for free, we should definitely ask MM to consider investing more into making soldat a grate game. I see plenty of old games making its way back to popularity, and with MM's current status as a game developer it shouldn't be too hard for him to find the right people for the job? I think ideally Shoozza should be working with soldat doing whatever he wants to do under a paid developer.
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Dears,
I have 2 questions regarding to topic
I'used to be host servers back in 2008-2010 and I was taking care of another servers besides my own ones as an admin.Because at that time we really needed it when most people were hacking.Now after a long time later I have heard you still have these issues again. How come nothing changed in 8 years? (1)
If we talk about the community it used to very active and right know i only see some old players but some of them not rest.Of course flaming had a huge effect upon the people who gave up and if you know it why are you still flaming each other? (2)
(does not matter old or new people flame is a flame )
My last humble words ,,
I also strongly believe that MM doesn't care about Soldat. When we needed MM he was not there , the community there yet this whole topic proves it. In my opinion he doesn't care community he cares about money and reputation. Most of the people knows that's why they don't give him a oppurtunity. Yes something needs to be change and its MM.
Most of us as admins had years of experience in administrating. We had our server monitoring program, we had MSAC, we had the server logs. When someone used hacks, we detected it but after some time most of the people used hacks or 3rd party programmes so we just gave up because no one made a solution ( yet someone refused to pay money to Battleye ). People just got fed up of this hackers and gave up the soldat.
Kind Regards.
-Former admin of the public comat's servers
-Former admin of the pks's all servers
-Former admin of the tr and sk servers
-Former admin of some bazooka's servers
-Former admin of knife mode's servers
edit : I personally don't blame shoozza.
edit 2 : Shame on you MM!
edit 3 : Here's the list
Akinaro Criticizing Soldat Developer Team (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.msg530779#msg530779)
Coco Yells for Help (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.msg530773#msg530773)
Petter Explains Hacking Situation in SCTFL Community (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.msg530780#msg530780)
DutchFlame Stands for Coco (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.msg530789#msg530789)
Akinaro Predicts Why Topic Will Be Closed (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.msg530792#msg530792)
Good Suggests with an Explanations by Vinteek (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.msg530795#msg530795)
verbeia has no idea (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.msg530803#msg530803)
Amazing Post Written by DarDar (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.msg530806#msg530806)
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Shoozza is not the problem. He is doing this for free and for the love of the game, you guys are killing his love for the community and with it his will to do anything.
You think that he should work 100% on Soldat because he agreed to be lead developer, but I say doing something is better than doing nothing!
Have you noticed how much stuff the community actually asks for? I think some of you are self-centered, but just try to imagine for a moment that you would implement all the suggestions the community asks for through various forums, private messages and chat programs, while simultaneously deal with hackers, flamers, banning, urgent issues, updates, reading various forums, questions and discussions. I could go on trying to come up with all the tasks Shoozza has but you get the point.
However, I agree with you on one thing. Since the community obviously want bigger things for soldat than any one man can deliver for free, we should definitely ask MM to consider investing more into making soldat a grate game. I see plenty of old games making its way back to popularity, and with MM's current status as a game developer it shouldn't be too hard for him to find the right people for the job? I think ideally Shoozza should be working with soldat doing whatever he wants to do under a paid developer.
He made a deal with MM, to kick Falcon as dev leader, and to make Shoozza dev leader. Now he's completely ignoring his position.
If he did not want to do this work he should not have made that deal with MM.
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All you do is bitching.You got no knowledge and no help to soldat in terms of coding so shut up and let them do the work.They are not paid workers and will work if they got free time.He said developing time will be dissappointing already but all you can do is talking bullshit.You are not paying anything so dont expect him to report all daily works to you every day.They are just working just believe them and shut your mouth.MM said it will realease in steam and its hes priority those days.I cant even imagine how this topic can piss off Shoozza or MM even im not a developer and not the guy who spends days for this codes.You are being dumb and stop it right now.I recommend admins to remove this bullshit topic.You are judging like a boss or CEO of the company.What the hell are you thinking and who the hell are you to judge people while you are being nothing in this job.What is this ridiculous topic can you explain me seriously ?
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All you do is bitching.You got no knowledge and no help to soldat in terms of coding so shut up and let them do the work.They are not paid workers and will work if they got free time.He said developing time will be dissappointing already but all you can do is talking bullshit.You are not paying anything so dont expect him to report all daily works to you every day.They are just working just believe them and shut your mouth.MM said it will realease in steam and its hes priority those days.I cant even imagine how this topic can piss off Shoozza or MM even im not a developer and not the guy who spends days for this codes.You are being dumb and stop it right now.I recommend admins to remove this bullshit topic.You are judging like a boss or CEO of the company.What the hell are you thinking and who the hell are you to judge people while you are being nothing in this job.What is this ridiculous topic can you explain me seriously ?
So you believe anyone should get to kick the current dev leader, to take over the role and never put in any work what so ever, and completely detach from the community?
We had Falcon, who had his issues, but he's still better than Shoozza.
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All you do is bitching.You got no knowledge and no help to soldat in terms of coding so shut up and let them do the work.They are not paid workers and will work if they got free time.He said developing time will be dissappointing already but all you can do is talking bullshit.You are not paying anything so dont expect him to report all daily works to you every day.They are just working just believe them and shut your mouth.MM said it will realease in steam and its hes priority those days.I cant even imagine how this topic can piss off Shoozza or MM even im not a developer and not the guy who spends days for this codes.You are being dumb and stop it right now.I recommend admins to remove this bullshit topic.You are judging like a boss or CEO of the company.What the hell are you thinking and who the hell are you to judge people while you are being nothing in this job.What is this ridiculous topic can you explain me seriously ?
Have you even read what Coco has said? I think the community is mad because he (Shoozza) seemed to ignore or decline any actual HELP proposition. Why would he actually do that if he cared for this game? If he doesn't have enough time to even consider getting help how do you imagine his developing when game might get an anormous boost of activity and instead of 50 people whining he will have to deal with few hundreds??
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Michał Marcinkowski free Soldat from this madness, open Your eyes - We're the game
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All you do is bitching.You got no knowledge and no help to soldat in terms of coding so shut up and let them do the work.They are not paid workers and will work if they got free time.He said developing time will be dissappointing already but all you can do is talking bullshit.You are not paying anything so dont expect him to report all daily works to you every day.They are just working just believe them and shut your mouth.MM said it will realease in steam and its hes priority those days.I cant even imagine how this topic can piss off Shoozza or MM even im not a developer and not the guy who spends days for this codes.You are being dumb and stop it right now.I recommend admins to remove this bullshit topic.You are judging like a boss or CEO of the company.What the hell are you thinking and who the hell are you to judge people while you are being nothing in this job.What is this ridiculous topic can you explain me seriously ?
Have you even read what Coco has said? I think the community is mad because he (Shoozza) seemed to ignore or decline any actual HELP proposition. Why would he actually do that if he cared for this game? If he doesn't have enough time to even consider getting help how do you imagine his developing when game might get an anormous boost of activity and instead of 50 people whining he will have to deal with few hundreds??
All you do is bitching.You got no knowledge and no help to soldat in terms of coding so shut up and let them do the work.They are not paid workers and will work if they got free time.He said developing time will be dissappointing already but all you can do is talking bullshit.You are not paying anything so dont expect him to report all daily works to you every day.They are just working just believe them and shut your mouth.MM said it will realease in steam and its hes priority those days.I cant even imagine how this topic can piss off Shoozza or MM even im not a developer and not the guy who spends days for this codes.You are being dumb and stop it right now.I recommend admins to remove this bullshit topic.You are judging like a boss or CEO of the company.What the hell are you thinking and who the hell are you to judge people while you are being nothing in this job.What is this ridiculous topic can you explain me seriously ?
So you believe anyone should get to kick the current dev leader, to take over the role and never put in any work what so ever, and completely detach from the community?
We had Falcon, who had his issues, but he's still better than Shoozza.
You guys are not capable to understand what i mean.Theres nothing Falcon did.Shoozzaa did more things than him.MM said he talked with Shoozzaa about steam realise and they will work on it.They are not your workers they are free independent coders.Theres nothing but bitching in this topic.No solution no responsibility.Just empty motivational speechs you make here.I could understand if Falcon or Helloer open this topic but Coco or you or me are not capable of anything about coding and improving soldat.Devoleper himself aka MM said its hes priority to make it to the steam so shut your mouth and wait you are promised for january but you forget you are giving nothing to this game.Stop talking like you donated 50k dollars to see it in the right time LOL you guys are so dumb beyond the limits.The funny part is you both are not even playing soldat like for months or years and still bitching LOL.I swear to god i could ban you all for this stupidity like you are the guy who can judge.Also happy dardar after lost rotten years he is in charge somehow and its hes playground so he can play with WM(He fucks him up like) and ban some people and act like he is something.How easy to say make it open code LOL then you all going to cry even if its open source there will be same unpaid coders are trying to code Soldat but then what you gonna do if they lose their attention to this game and spread out hacks ? How you know there is a 100% trusted coder that going to raise up the Soldat ? There is only one guy who can make this game better than ever and its Michal Marcinkowski.This topic should be like ''You are late where is the steam'' not like ''You are shit leave developer team make it open source for other coders'' LOL YOU ARE SO DUMB
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All you do is bitching.You got no knowledge and no help to soldat in terms of coding so shut up and let them do the work.They are not paid workers and will work if they got free time.He said developing time will be dissappointing already but all you can do is talking bullshit.You are not paying anything so dont expect him to report all daily works to you every day.They are just working just believe them and shut your mouth.MM said it will realease in steam and its hes priority those days.I cant even imagine how this topic can piss off Shoozza or MM even im not a developer and not the guy who spends days for this codes.You are being dumb and stop it right now.I recommend admins to remove this bullshit topic.You are judging like a boss or CEO of the company.What the hell are you thinking and who the hell are you to judge people while you are being nothing in this job.What is this ridiculous topic can you explain me seriously ?
Have you even read what Coco has said? I think the community is mad because he (Shoozza) seemed to ignore or decline any actual HELP proposition. Why would he actually do that if he cared for this game? If he doesn't have enough time to even consider getting help how do you imagine his developing when game might get an anormous boost of activity and instead of 50 people whining he will have to deal with few hundreds??
All you do is bitching.You got no knowledge and no help to soldat in terms of coding so shut up and let them do the work.They are not paid workers and will work if they got free time.He said developing time will be dissappointing already but all you can do is talking bullshit.You are not paying anything so dont expect him to report all daily works to you every day.They are just working just believe them and shut your mouth.MM said it will realease in steam and its hes priority those days.I cant even imagine how this topic can piss off Shoozza or MM even im not a developer and not the guy who spends days for this codes.You are being dumb and stop it right now.I recommend admins to remove this bullshit topic.You are judging like a boss or CEO of the company.What the hell are you thinking and who the hell are you to judge people while you are being nothing in this job.What is this ridiculous topic can you explain me seriously ?
So you believe anyone should get to kick the current dev leader, to take over the role and never put in any work what so ever, and completely detach from the community?
We had Falcon, who had his issues, but he's still better than Shoozza.
You guys are not capable to understand what i mean.Theres nothing Falcon did.Shoozzaa did more things than him.MM said he talked with Shoozzaa about steam realise and they will work on it.They are not your workers they are free independent coders.Theres nothing but bitching in this topic.No solution no responsibility.Just empty motivational speechs you make here.I could understand if Falcon or Helloer open this topic but Coco or you or me are not capable of anything about coding and improving soldat.Devoleper himself aka MM said its hes priority to make it to the steam so shut your mouth and wait you are promised for january but you forget you are giving nothing to this game.Stop talking like you donated 50k dollars to see it in the right time LOL you guys are so dumb beyond the limits.The funny part is you both are not even playing soldat like for months or years and still bitching LOL.I swear to god i could ban you all for this stupidity like you are the guy who can judge.Also happy dardar after lost rotten years he is in charge somehow and its hes playground so he can play with WM(He fucks him up like) and ban some people and act like he is something.How easy to say make it open code LOL then you all going to cry even if its open source there will be same unpaid coders are trying to code Soldat but then what you gonna do if they lose their attention to this game and spread out hacks ? How you know there is a 100% trusted coder that going to raise up the Soldat ? There is only one guy who can make this game better than ever and its Michal Marcinkowski.This topic should be like ''You are late where is the steam'' not like ''You are shit leave developer team make it open source for other coders'' LOL YOU ARE SO DUMB
uhhh, Ive been playing way longer then you have, nice try as usual. Of course you don't bother to have any sort of sources or citations. Usual Verbeia post. The fact that you said Shoozza has done more work than Falcon or Helloer goes to show you how little you know about Soldat development andddd you still make no sense. When did I ever say anything about making soldat open source?
Stick to playing, let the adults actually have a conversation.
Don't quote me til you have sources, not going to bother answering unless you do.
Also don't put words in my mouth, you clearly did not read my post.
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Dont worry i read your words and those are nothing but bitching like a dumb okay adults go save the soldat fucking retarded community lol.
Please MM just run away from this dumbs and remove this game from internet.
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Hello guys FINALLY the community woke up and people are speaking how it is, Michal Marcinkowski MUST know it ! Im really pissed, Im playing soldat 11 years too and I have to say that Soldat is for years on the same level of development - one lazy dev that doesnt care about our opinions.
When I see all these shitty 2d indie games on steam, that are 1000x worse than Soldat, and thousands of people are playing it everyday, Im asking what we did wrong..
Theres no any big improvements in eats,bugs,design,anticheat and other things.. imagine how great game we could have now if there was enough devs that really wanted to help Soldat and took suggestions from the community.
Coco and darDar has said everything straight, the biggest fault of Soldat is leading for years - MM and Shoozza, looks like MM dont give a shit about Soldat, Shoozza just ignore us, when Soldat should have been already on steam and acting like he doesnt care...Since Shoozza just cant rec more devs and work with them on new Soldat, he should resign.
We waited for years. You had 8 years to make these changes we wanted as community, We made a lot of good suggestion that could help Soldat and only you had power to do it. On this and SCTFL forums, people from community had really nice ideas, but have never been heard and processed from devs, so thats why is Soldat dying for years.
Its sad that MM is not aware of what masterpiece he has created and how much big potential it has.
MM you disappointed all Soldat players. You are making PR guides in your reallife, but cant make a PR for Soldat?
The last dot is that You dont even take Soldat as a game, you didnt add it to yours company game list.
Make soldat opensource, take soldat project lead to someone else or make new devs team lead by Falcon or someone else than Shoozza, but Soldat needs big changes as you can see.
We are awaiting your reply.
Reebook, king of bongs
Soldat player since 2007
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MM where are you
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MM where are you
Here. (https://www.facebook.com/michal.marcinkowski) Send him angry DM messages #DearMM
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As MM obviously has no interests to help with Soldat, we do need someone else who takes takes over Soldat' project lead / project management job.
Someone who builds teams to:
- update maps, redesign maps, fix maps
- interact with server hosts, leagues, gathers and sub-communities
- takes care of the marketing, seo, website and media
- event team to host tournaments, leagues, cups and other events
- assings "simple" non-code related tasks to the community, instead of Shoozza.. such as remaking the manuals, redoing Soldat's default settings, default controls, and other things.
I'm saying this for ages, especially about map making.
Shoozza is not a bad guy, he's just a programmer.
He definetely can't lead the community and I doubt he knows the Soldat's needs. It's obvious.
But who gonna change it and set a proper team? MM? ::)
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The game needs to be treated as a monetary project; a product, not a hobby.
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ppl plz let this game die in peace and empty servers as it deserves
lets "wewontplayprotest" xDDDDDD
It's not a topic for jokes, it would kill the game for good.
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The game needs to be treated as a monetary project; a product, not a hobby.
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ppl plz let this game die in peace and empty servers as it deserves
lets "wewontplayprotest" xDDDDDD
Son of a bitch! MM & Shoooza you're one ugly mother fu**er! Kiss the ground soldier and Die!
How are pointless comments like these going to help anything, or motivate the developers to reply constructively? This is supposed to be a thread of constructive criticism and questions, not blind rage or a spambox.
u cant kill whats dead already xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger.
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see... even jrgp a staff member is callin it dead xDDDDD war is over fellas!
No; I'm quoting Game Of Thrones :P
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ppl plz let this game die in peace and empty servers as it deserves
lets "wewontplayprotest" xDDDDDD
It's not a topic for jokes, it would kill the game for good.
u cant kill whats dead already xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Stop posting useless and unrelated comments.
this is a discussion thread, where we demand serious input, not trolling.
/removed some posts.
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Guys don't feed the trolls
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You can spend here another 8 Years waiting for anything. For past year massive amount of people write exact same things, most of them was bashed by some forum members, because its "drama", or "by posting negative things you not helping"...
I was saying it all the time that Soldat need proper team that contain someone with knowledge of communication and PR. That game need rework of graphic, and features needed by new players... No one care about it then, and no one gonna care now.
People spend here dozens of hours creating mockups and posting thoughtful suggestions. Did anyone saw any of it implemented in game for past years? Nope... Did devs ever at least tried using what community actually made(maps, graphics?) Nope... But hey! we have F up WM with every version! That something.
Overall what is gonna happen now is that:
- Shoozza will show up, say that we should stop this drama because it not helping. There is a chance that he give up work to someone else, and we gonna have the same situation: All work will end on one person shoulder, no one will give a F about help from community or other places, There will be no any person that would deal with promotion/PR.
- Some annoying old forum member show up saying that its free project and they work how they like. And we should Shut the F up because everything is fine.
- MM will show up and start mumbling about "getting this project on feet"(again in past 2 months...) and everyone will start crying from joy because MM has spoken!
Nah, MM created Soldat but as far as developer and publisher he is really not that great at all. I think that some devs who make "flashlight apps" for Android have more knowledge and hearth for creating and promoting their work than all his work he made in "Transhuman" Design. I think he would rather kill that project than polish it and review it as something new and amazing.
Its literally like he want to forget about it, especially looking at how its described in thd site: literally ONE screenshot and 3 lines of description... that say something about his PR towards Soldat.
There are really crappy games on market filled with bugs, but they are in better shape than soldat and get nice player base, promotion and development, but Soldat still have small chance to beat them, but only if it would get proper team and support from its author, then it could be probably be ready in next 3-4 months with proper features and graphic. If you look at any other Indie-like game you will knew that its possible, even with its famous spaghetti code(graphic and map with more than ONE person like now, can be done in few weeks really). And even with 50-100 bucks gathered from donations/author pocket you can prepare advertising for eg. google ads.
Because after all Soldat for past years was bought "few times" so there should be at least 20 bucks lying somewhere...
But there is big BUT... and its called time: Soldat lost his chance long time ago, when all those people that where ready to help give up waiting for miracle(and we talk here about YEARS). Now all Soldat have is maybe 50 people that actually read this forum and are interested in development, and about 100 players that actually play it beside some private matches between friends. Now all we have here are bunch of people tired of that comedy, that just write what they always wanted, but they didnt want to "offend anyone", or was so busy licking each other butts... And even butt lickers are gone now, because they realize that Soldat development style remind old cat that sleep all the time and dont really want to change his place. ;]
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coming out of the woodwork for this goddamn shit
i don't know the details of this current drama enough to make judgements but honestly i don't really care. the core root of why the community always seems to have an uproar against developers to me seems to be because this game is treated like a propietary product that MM wants to cling on to for dear life. what do i mean by that? think about what soldat is kept alive by - the efforts of developers in all fashions from the community facillitating its continued existence. from the creators of gatherbots, the tournament infrastructure, the community forums and instant chat places(lol so inarticulate). its a fucking labour of love, but anyone who wants to actually participate in the labour of love of developing the actual game has to navigate this weird circle with MM at the goddamn centre. it requires a direct line to somebody who has long lost any investment in this actual game and while it might not require his friendship, it requires his goddamn approval and for somebody who has clearly not given a goddamn about this game for more than a decade(which is fair tbh, ive grown out of judgement for it), it is absurd.
now i don't know exactly how much shoozza is to blame but lets assume for a second he's not: the human capacity to work on something out of love in a world where most time-investment is profit-driven is incredibly limited. why do we have to go through these cycles of drama when the community start to perceive that their devs aren't entirely invested in at least trying to keep the game alive? or letting the only people who care about this game know what's happening? in my eyes, the answer is simple - soldat is not open-source. to develop the game, one must get access to the source by contacting and communicating with a person who is actively distant from the game and would rather it have probably never existed(i might be being unfair here but its annoying tbh).
open-source the goddamn game already your excuses for not doing it were bullshit 10+ years ago and they're bullshit now. give the people and yourself a break holy shit. you'd have saved yourself so much goddamn trouble if you'd listened all those years ago. can you learn from history for once?
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There are plans to open-source the game after it's released on Steam (which was supposed to be this month, but it may be delayed a bit more). Once it's open-sourced - hopefully the process of community involvement will be much less contrived, like you said.
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There are plans to open-source the game after it's released on Steam (which was supposed to be this month, but it may be delayed a bit more). Once it's open-sourced - hopefully the process of community involvement will be much less contrived, like you said.
I don't really think open sourcing the game will make problems go away or become an instant positive contribution to the state of things. Something tells me the eventual GitHub PRs will be few and far between, and will likely mostly be 2 line trivial changes.
It's an ancient (a lot of files have (C) MM 2002 at the top) large codebase which can be a struggle to work on, written in a language that few people use and even fewer like.
And when someone does show a strong interest in contributing code to Soldat, it usually isn't hard for them to join the dev team, which is why there have been so many devs. Part of the turnover rate of Soldat devs (all the "former" ones there are) likely stems back to the language it's written in, instead of just politics and IRL time constraints.
Given all that, I think a Steam release would have the most impact. Even just the current version in it's current state.
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Few PRs in open source soldat > 0 PRs in closed source soldat = open soldat wins, quick maths.
1. Read this topic https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=39129.0
2. Look at changelogs and devlogs from 1.5.x to 1.7.1 version
3. Read about soldat dramas that happened in 2010-2018
4. Read open source petition: https://www.change.org/p/micha%C5%82-marcinkowski-make-soldat-open-source
5. Draw conclusions or if you are friend of Shoozza or MM: tell community that there are some positives of current state of things and everything is going to be ok because soon? soldat will be on steam
Soldat as Open source project is the only way to go.
I don't disagree with any of that.
My point is a steam release would have a more immediate impact on the community from a player point of view, and trying to coordinate multiple things at once (OSS release vs steam vs everything else in the gargantuan TODO lists) without clear direction as to which should take priority is likely why we're stuck in a limbo state.
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I also think open source is only way to go.
You have complainers on both side and they will stick to their side whatever happen.
Just see open source like a competition:
Red corner : MM + Shoozza
Blue corner : All the others that think they would do better.
Also, it seem there is some people with decent knowledge and passion in blue corner, how come none of them is willing to group and build their own project?
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Also, it seem there is some people with decent knowledge and passion in blue corner, how come none of them is willing to group and build their own project?
we don't want a new game,.. we want soldat to be developed, grow and be improved.
PS: I'm really looking forward for a reply by MM & Shoozza regarding what has been discussed/mentioned here.
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I do understand your point of view on that.
On the other side, if all those people really fought for 8 years to make soldat better with no improvements, I guess a better "soldat" project would came to life if you all joined forces.
As an example, I was playing frets on fire a lot before and my brother asked me why I was wasting my time on a game like that. With all the time I wasted I could be good at guitar. It was making sense and I bought a guitar so now I am playing the real thing, have more fun and get skills.
Btw, sorry for my english, not mother tongue.
Cheers!
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I dont understand what you expect from Steam release? Its in the same position or worst than open-source it.
You really believe that putting Soldat on Steam will make it better and popular just like that? Especially that this release will not have any significant changes from player perspective?
It will literally drown in list of games that steam have. It will get initial week or two hype made by old player checking it after long break... and then they realize that its still the same but just available on steam... I can bet my car that Soldat will get back to its stagnation after month, when new players will check it, play a bit, realize that those MASSIVE eats and lags, crappy look is actually feature in this game, and they forgot about it after that...
What are devs initial assumptions about player base after release? Anyone actually gather any statistic and informations about this game? This if first fricking thing you do with product: you make sure that you fallow your own game and gather opinions and statistics. Oh wait, what Im saying... there is no one here who even deal with advertising and promotion of game... sorry my bad. -_-
But honestly how much do you think steam release will give you in terms of player increase and popularity? Especially when it will be release purely made just for Steam, nothing more in it will be made.
Looking at last "big release" , we had exactly the same situation, even if this release had some visible improvements and changes.
It was big hype made purely by community members who actually spread the words about it, there was moderate bump in player number during first week, then decrease in next few weeks, and after months average player number in lobby between 8-22(UTC+1) was again just 30-70.
Now Open-source IS ALSO NOT A SOLUTION. It need also work on game and strategy with dealing with lobby, servers and compatibility. Because it will create initial chaos, of bunch of weird almost hacked versions of game, but trick with open sourcing game is that after some time, it will all calm down, this strategy of open game is made for long term work. It will take maybe half of the year before this chaos will slow down, and we end with maybe one or two repos that have bright feature. Some people will get annoyed by that long delay crying that "eeee! Open sourcing didnt work! eeee, you ruined this game!" but such projects always work like that.
And even after open-source Soldat there is still lots of responsibility in hand of devs, MM as owner and this site and discord, because there need to be place where people can gather and discuss all those repos and gather resources and ideas. Open or not, game need central place where people can meet and talk.
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The truth is we will never get an ideal version of Soldat which we all want. We can't expect that things which should be done +10 years ago will somehow appear in nearly future. These improvements you talking about would never come true. We can only agree with it and put this game to steam like it is. It's the place to which Soldat was going for whole its life so let it die there slowly. I want to believe that I am wrong with this pessimistic vision.
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Also, it seem there is some people with decent knowledge and passion in blue corner, how come none of them is willing to group and build their own project?
This is really the only way to go.
Soldat does not have a future, even if it's released to steam I doubt there'll really be any change in player numbers after the initial week, if anyone even notices it.
I suspect the time investment to implement everything that needs to be implemented to make soldat modern will take a longer time to do than to make a new game on a modern 2d engine.
Anyway, the only reason I'm concerned with the steam release is because of the wm, and the nade/med-kit situation. This is something I've wanted to make sure gets fixed, but I'm continuously denied to join the beta team. So, there's just a bunch of people who hadn't even noticed the med/nade-kit spawn changed who got access to it... And same happened with wm.
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I forwarded your message to MM on the same day it was posted. Adding that I would accept any action he had to infer from it.
Since he didn't reply here on his own, I'd like to update you on his decision he gave me personally:
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MM encurated me to continue working on the game and improve focus.
He said I shouldn't let the negative 0.1% of the community bring me down.
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I infer that attack posts of such kind are not working in the way people expect them to.
About the post:
The fact that you choose not to message me about your concerns and rather write an inaccurate, one sided hit piece about me is very disappointing.
Such posts have no place in a healty community and therefore won't get a detailed reply on my side.
If you are not locked in this kind of thinking but rather an open minded person interested in the actual reasons for this, feel free to open a new thread which allows for a civil discussion and potential improvements.
Anyone attacking MM or any developers in a similar or even worse way should reconsider their actions.
Developing this game is already mentally taxing and time consuming - it shouldn't be unrewarding, depressing and hurtful.
As a community we should be better than this and treat people with respect.
BTW: If someone else wants this discussion - feel free do create a new thread.
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He said I shouldn't let the negative 0.1% of the community bring me down.
Does he believe the game has a community beyond the sctfl/gather community? This is more like the negative 60-80% of the community.
The community consists of at most 100 people, where maybe 40 are active.
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Shoozza if developing Soldat is depressing You then why not end it and just open source? Please show Us some signs that You enjoy coding/playing soldat. If You won't have free time for longer period then tell it to community - from player side it looks like You're hidden somewhere in some weird depression about Soldat. If You would team up with helloer things would go faster, think about what players will like not Yours or helloer's imagination. Overall this is all fuc**** up, thanks.
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He said I shouldn't let the negative 0.1% of the community bring me down.
If this is 0.1% Im a pope.
No wonder MM dont care if he dont even realize how many people actually are active/play this game...
I infer that attack posts of such kind are not working in the way people expect them to.
All we expect is to make this game better. And Its not really our fault that more and more people are tired of lazy develompent that we had for past YEARS
The fact that you choose not to message me about your concerns and rather write an inaccurate, one sided hit piece about me is very disappointing.
Such posts have no place in a healty community and therefore won't get a detailed reply on my side.
This is public matter, lots of people think the same. Dont try hide it behind PM. Also Healthy community would have healthy development and clear communication between players-devs. Right now we have: "No one know. No one care. No one listen."
It was obvious for everyone that sooner or later this fake magic bubble will break and all people start saying what they always wanted. Game was under your supervision, you should be first to see that.
If you are not locked in this kind of thinking but rather an open minded person interested in the actual reasons for this, feel free to open a new thread which allows for a civil discussion and potential improvements.
Point is that any negative comment will be treated by you and MM as "drama", you just cant handle and really defend all those opinions that we had for 3 pages.
If you though that people still be prising everything you do, just quit. Half of work with anything starting from cleaning dishes to creating space rockets is about dealing with your mistakes and omissions and defending your own work. Not hiding behind "Dont be mean to me". If you screw something and people are angry: deal with it like men.
Anyone attacking MM or any developers in a similar or even worse way should reconsider their actions.
Developing this game is already mentally taxing and time consuming - it shouldn't be unrewarding, depressing and hurtful.
As a community we should be better than this and thread people with respect.
Its not attack, most of we had in this topic is hard truth and personal opinions, if you cant handle it just quit. If its mentally taxing for you: ask for help or quit.
As a community(by looking in all those comments not only here but in other places) we are really tired of dealing with lazy development and lack of any progress for past YEARS.
Because we talk here about YEARS of development that for 90% give Soldat really nothing. Now when MM showed up just like that, and said game will be released on Steam literally in the same state as its now is just hilarious.
Its his game, thanks to this game he managed to move forward, and he literally pissed on it for all those years. There was no one here to keep that game up to date. For you and for rest of those "devs", it was just a playground that you did for weekend.
If you or any other person that handle Soldat was "open minded" like you said, we would have proper team with people responsible for promotion, communication, we would have proper community input that would be used and most of features needed by new generation of players.
Dont expect anything more than 50-70 tired and angry players that for all those YEARS post ideas, opinions, help suggestions, ready to use assets, concepts arts that no one from devs consider to use, even if all other people liked them and wanted them. Its actually miracle that some of them are actually still here and post their opinions here!
We talk here about YEARS, so its not like it could not be made, we could make even second game in that time period, and most of that time was under your development, so please dont try to tell us that its "mentally taxing and time consuming". You and MM had YEARS to deal with it. You cant really cover all that wasted time with idea of putting game on steam hopping that it will help the game.
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Dont expect anything more than 50-70 tired and angry players that for all those YEARS post ideas, opinions, help suggestions, ready to use assets, concepts arts that no one from devs consider to use, even if all other people liked them and wanted them. Its actually miracle that some of them are actually still here and post their opinions here!
Yup, don't dare to think You're only 1 "hardworking" on Soldat, there has been made thousands of maps, scripts, modes, graphics, servers. Many people used lots of hours to do great stuff, please don't tell to community Soldat is mentally taxing and time consuming for fu** sake
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Shoozza, if you trully believe that we are 0,1% of community you must be living in 2012. Whenever I join discord I can see no more than 100 people, half of which have nothing to do with Soldat or just played it few times like decade ago and another half of them are old players like me. I am not active these days because there are no reasons for me to return. The things that made me want to quit this game are still here for over a decade. Furthermore they are the things that led MANY of players to leave this game and still in the light of it you're not fixing this. Can someone that actually have knowladge about Soldat code explain what is so hard in fixing the netcode so we would experience hit's occasionaly? Because in my prime time in this game I was really surprised by killing someone with 1 grenade.
Over past YEARS the only things that has been done in my eyes are deleting bug with nades going through thin walls and upgrading graphics. Whereas your entire devlogs and patchnotes are filled with almost irrelevant, in players eyes, things. You gave power over weapon mode to darDar who (no offence) has no idea of what Soldat has been and what it needs to be. Weapon mode itself became easier and easier each verion, some might say he did it for himself to actually get better in the game. However he was able to work with Ginn to work out new weapon mode that will be better than one we have now. If he could accept the help and if what coco said about helloer and other people wanting to help YOU why couldn't you accept their help? Especially if their work gave actual results in another banhammer for hackers?
As it was said above, you will never succeed if you dont treat this game as a monetary project. Also take note that almost all of our posts, despite the community tendency to be toxic af, are actually filled with substantive thoughts, they are not the hate speech like: you suck because you suck.
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I don't know if you are dumb Shoozza or you just act like that :D 0.1% of community... Nice joke :D
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Closing thread, since people have a hard time reading my reply.
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Closing thread, since people have a hard time reading my reply.
unlocked this topic.
The community has provided large feedback and is seeking for a plan on Soldat's future and an update. Locking the thread for no reason won't help.
no one posting here is trying to personally attack you or MM. What has spoken out their thoughts,.. isn't a 0.1% minority. It's the overall opinion from the most experienced and loyal members of our community.
These have to be taken serious.
Dont expect anything more than 50-70 tired and angry players that for all those YEARS post ideas, opinions, help suggestions, ready to use assets, concepts arts that no one from devs consider to use, even if all other people liked them and wanted them. Its actually miracle that some of them are actually still here and post their opinions here!
Yup, don't dare to think You're only 1 "hardworking" on Soldat, there has been made thousands of maps, scripts, modes, graphics, servers. Many people used lots of hours to do great stuff, please don't tell to community Soldat is mentally taxing and time consuming for fu** sake
Also, yes I agree on that.
We have dozens of members in our community who have put a lot of wok to keep soldat alive.
Everything people ask for is an update of the current state of development.. Also, if MM doesn't reply in here, that'd be just very disappointing and confirm what has already been said in here.
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a huge sadness for those of us who love this soldat game, please accept the help of the community, there are always people who can grow and much
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Yeah Shoozza please show me the community that is happy, because I can't find them.
Wake up... if you started to post dev logs like you said you would this would already be ten times better.
And if you really do not have the time? Why did you come back? Just tell MM you can not do it and move on.
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Can someone that actually have knowladge about Soldat code explain what is so hard in fixing the netcode so we would experience hit's occasionaly?
From a small amount of knowledge how soldat hit detection works, obtained from secret source. Drawing lines instead of x amount of circle collides along the bullet path each frame could maybe fix some hit registration. Maybe some sync issues as well.
As an example with nades.
A player jumps onto a nade, and locally registers the hit, so the "boost" is applied. Once the server registers the hit, it seems like it asks the hurt clients position to then calculate the damage. But since the client has since moved a fair bit away from the original explosion, the damage is reduced, or possibly completely neglected.
This however is just pure speculation, conclusions I've drawn from how eats are repeatable. I think syncing up some sort of delta round time would help with eats to some degree.
I have no idea how you can get boosted by something that didn't connect on your own screen. Also, I don't really know programming, only the very basics (1 course in visual basic, 2 or 3 non-standard courses in C# baby game development; i.e direct focus on object oriented programming and game development... 10 years ago).
However he was able to work with Ginn to work out new weapon mode that will be better than one we have now.
Only thing he's listened to me about is lower bullet damage. Other cooperation is more or less non-existent, other than just some discussion about issues with the game and in conern of the wm we've found.
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Make Soldat Great Again
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Nah dardar is lying who that insults you and MM they are cancer of the community.Im deeply sorry for them.Akinaro i dont even saw him on gathers i dont even know who is he just talks about he is something also coconut or other guys are inactive and talking bullshit.We understand you and we think things will be better with time.Look at them they dont even know what you meant about ''0.01%'' such a brainless guys.Some of them also ex hackers dont give a fuck about this guys MM is right just do your job without checking this stupid people around like they are your boss or smthelse
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You are one of that cancer person who judge people by amount of post on forum or amount of gather plays... This is actually one of reason why Soldat is in bad shape because of people like you.
I dont need to play gathers every day and use the same nick to brag about stats to say what I see and think.
I dont need to be on this forum for 10 years to say what I see and think.
I dont need to know or even like most of people here to say what I see and think.
I played Soldat for long time, I would not be surprised if longer than you.
But difference is that I play it and Im trying to have fun, I dont treat Soldat as platform to meat people, I look at Soldat from Player perspective, not old-fag moron who play only gathers and brag about all the time how long he play and how good he is.
I dont give a flying pig about people like you, because of those old-fag players Soldat didnt evolve and is now in deep crap. Because devs and all people behind it nurse you for al those times, because you cry like little kids whenever there is a change in game: change color of some polygon= you cry, remake map = you cry that someone ruined game, add/change some feature = you need to get xanax because you just cant handle it.
I prefer playing randomly in public servers and have fun with random people than listen to "competitive scene" bullshit. Because there is a saying: "The priest forgets that he was a clerk."
And all you people forgot that not "competitive scene" keep game alive but public game where you get new players that after some time get better and better.
Whole point of game is to keep it alive and available for everyone, not just bunch of morons who shut them self in some gather and lick each other butts.
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Hey everyone,
I just want to let you know that I am aware of the situation. I've read the post. I need to take a few days to make some decisions and make an official response.
I want to help you guys. This is important to me, especially that I see big initiatives and people willing to play and have fun and then these initiatives fail :/. I'll do what I can to help.
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Hey everyone,
I just want to let you know that I am aware of the situation. I've read the post. I need to take a few days to make some decisions and make an official response.
I want to help you guys. This is important to me, especially that I see big initiatives and people willing to play and have fun and then these initiatives fail :/. I'll do what I can to help.
We all want Soldat to grow. Community is willing to help with it, such as by making maps and scripts. But the biggest weight is on your shoulders. We count on you!
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This game was all I played years ago.. shame it still doesn't have anti-cheat. It's really impossible to have a competitive scene without a functioning anti-cheat. Hope to see some changes soon, would love to play competitively again. I would be all for helping to pay for a functioning anti-cheat as I'm sure most of the competitive community would.
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Hey everyone,
I just want to let you know that I am aware of the situation. I've read the post. I need to take a few days to make some decisions and make an official response.
I want to help you guys. This is important to me, especially that I see big initiatives and people willing to play and have fun and then these initiatives fail :/. I'll do what I can to help.
I'm not holdin my breath. We as a community have all been let down too much. At some point all of us tried to find some way to fix the community or game from the inside. Nothing ever really worked or stuck. And yet, here we are years later, still no anti-cheat, development is still mismanaged and at a standstill...or a snails pace at best. It seemed (to me) that with every update, nothing truly was fixed, more bugs popped up, some change/feature was added that split the community up even further. Repeated and unnecessary changes to weapons. It always felt like nobody got what they wanted, and just kept holding out for the next version "maybe next release will be better." But a lot of us realized that every version was like this and just moved on.
Every once in a while someone new comes in with enthusiasm, tries to make changes, things fall through and the cycle continues. And here we are. Everyone is saying it....it has been YEARS. I was playing this game when I was a kid and i'm almost 30 now. I mean honestly dude, this is kind of it. This feels like one last final push, with some renewed vigor from some old guys, and a lot of new energy on Discord. Maybe....just MAYBE this is the change we were all waiting for. Maybe this is finally when things turn around and Soldat finally gets the changes it needs to become what we all want it to be.
Or maybe it's just one of the last, final breaths of life being pumped into a lifeless corpse that's been on a delayed burial.
This game means more to us than some of us are willing to admit....I know a lot of us have tried to do something in the past, been shot down and have moved on for years now, but there are people that are STILL HERE, and STILL trying to make a difference. So MM you can take what you want from this thread but people have been saying this game has been dead/dying for years now. There is no "community" left....this is it. Over the years I've checked the front page to see what the server stats are. Most of the time it is less than 10 players. The gather community, the "old timers" we are all that is left of the game at this point. There is no other community out there to get feedback from.
It's time to shit or get off the pot on this game.
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Been a long time since I've logged in to this account. Dusting it off to throw this out there. I'm with black ops, played as a kid, almost 30- I want this back as a nostalgia item to revitalize my youth. I think with a possible Steam release, a lot of new life could be cultivated but there are a lot of things that need to be addressed.
Pop this motherfucker on Steam after some work, slap a $5 price tag on it and appeal to a small community, or let someone take the reigns. Sell the rights if you don't want it anymore, but let someone own it, literally and figuratively. Let them be responsible for the outcome. Just delegating the work off to people who have absolutely no actual interest, on a personal or professional level, obviously isn't working. I'm not sure of what the intricacies with licensing are, but open sourcing it and/or putting it on Steam would please the community. It would let us at the very least take the reigns and grow our community more if no one wanted the mantle (that was worth a shit). At this point I think pleasing the gaming community is a priority that is being completely overlooked by the gaming industry, and being a small developer/content creator puts a lot of power in your hands on what you can do here.
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Hey everyone,
I just want to let you know that I am aware of the situation. I've read the post. I need to take a few days to make some decisions and make an official response.
I want to help you guys. This is important to me, especially that I see big initiatives and people willing to play and have fun and then these initiatives fail :/. I'll do what I can to help.
Is "doing what i can to help" something more deep than writing 2 lines of text here? I'm afraid the 0.1% of the community didn't take what you wrote seriously, so it would be recommended to elaborate a bit more on WHEN and HOW you are going to do it :)
Otherwise some haters might think you just wrote it for the sake of writing it in hope of buying time instead of taking some meaningful actions. And we all know it's far from true! :)
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Drop in yours xD
(https://i.imgur.com/YlCshIJ.png)
(inspiration source in attachment)
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There's more to just making it open source.
The whole staff on who decides everything for soldat needs to be changed out.
Majority of beta testers does nothing, the person in charge of soldat weapons mod knows nothing about soldat and how to make a good wm (he also refuses to listen to input, unless the input is in favor of his idea) and basically he bought himself into the position beta team/wm maker (he does not contribute in any way other than paying 5-10? a month), the admins in the official gather channel are abusive and uses their admin powers to ban people they don't like (they've done so throughout their admin history).
All of this needs to change. There's no reason for open source if these people in charage will only accept things they've made themselves, the community is too small to make any real change against the official soldat team.
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the admins in the official gather channel are abusive and uses their admin powers to ban people they don't like (they've done so throughout their admin history).
Current admins are reasonable, quick and efficient from what I've seen yet there seems to not be enough online especially in the morning hours in Western Europe / afternoon Russia. To date we have never had a problem with discord admins of the magnitude of someone kicking a team or banning someone just because they lost (at least i didn't notice any incidents of such), I suspect that is a maturity-issue and because of our rather high (in internet terms) average age (30+) that isn't a big issue anymore. To be honest I must say that I find many admins to be WAY to liberal on kicking/banning (especially permaban) exhackers or constant trolls for instance. So this is the only issue because there are still many people out there that use this game as an outlet to relief anger or stress by either trolling or griefing others. This issue has been a constant on this game but I feel there might be a way to dialogue with certain people of this group and maybe convince them that their ways are detrimental not only to the community but to themselves as well. Well, other than that, i think discord is being well organised.
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The release this game on steam will not change anything.
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discord is what saves the game
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Hey everyone,
I just want to let you know that I am aware of the situation. I've read the post. I need to take a few days to make some decisions and make an official response.
I want to help you guys. This is important to me, especially that I see big initiatives and people willing to play and have fun and then these initiatives fail :/. I'll do what I can to help.
Still no response XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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the admins in the official gather channel are abusive and uses their admin powers to ban people they don't like (they've done so throughout their admin history).
Current admins are reasonable, quick and efficient from what I've seen yet there seems to not be enough online especially in the morning hours in Western Europe / afternoon Russia. To date we have never had a problem with discord admins of the magnitude of someone kicking a team or banning someone just because they lost (at least i didn't notice any incidents of such), I suspect that is a maturity-issue and because of our rather high (in internet terms) average age (30+) that isn't a big issue anymore. To be honest I must say that I find many admins to be WAY to liberal on kicking/banning (especially permaban) exhackers or constant trolls for instance. So this is the only issue because there are still many people out there that use this game as an outlet to relief anger or stress by either trolling or griefing others. This issue has been a constant on this game but I feel there might be a way to dialogue with certain people of this group and maybe convince them that their ways are detrimental not only to the community but to themselves as well. Well, other than that, i think discord is being well organised.
The bans are way too strict.
It's not going to work to ban somebody for a week because they said something bad. Or ban them for a day because they missed a gather.
If you don't like somebody personally you can mute them, that goes for every user individually.
The admins are really not reasonable, nor are they mature, as it seems like they've wanted to be admin because they lack authority in their real life, thus taking it out on people in the soldat community.
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It's not going to work to ban somebody for a week because they said something bad. Or ban them for a day because they missed a gather. If you don't like somebody personally you can mute them, that goes for every user individually.
So what's the contingency plan for if they CONTINUE doing it and simply dont care? I think you are putting a lot of faith that certain players are suddenly going to realize the error of their ways and stop doing whatever it is that's causing their teams a headache but I think that this wont be the case for everyone. Yes, bans should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, but admins need to be ultimately strict with trolling/breaking the rules in discord games. Flame can be muted off and solved, trolls can not be solved, only by a banhammer. People who intentionally troll and disrupt games should end up banned for a given period of time.
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It's not going to work to ban somebody for a week because they said something bad. Or ban them for a day because they missed a gather. If you don't like somebody personally you can mute them, that goes for every user individually.
So what's the contingency plan for if they CONTINUE doing it and simply dont care? I think you are putting a lot of faith that certain players are suddenly going to realize the error of their ways and stop doing whatever it is that's causing their teams a headache but I think that this wont be the case for everyone. Yes, bans should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, but admins need to be ultimately strict with trolling/breaking the rules in discord games. Flame can be muted off and solved, trolls can not be solved, only by a banhammer. People who intentionally troll and disrupt games should end up banned for a given period of time.
Most who get banned aren't trolling.
A 20 minute ban for no show, and if you miss 2 games within a weeks span you start getting auto deleted every 2-3 minutes from gathers you add to. Ban times gets longer as well, but always resets within a reasonable amount of time (like a month of good behavior).
Leaving itmog would be a 40min ban, and then another 20minutes ban whenever the person tries to add the next time. This again if repeated within a weeks span the player gets put into the auto delete role, and gets deleted from gathers. Same as with not showing up, bans gets longer, but can still be reset after good behavior.
Admins usually miss their gathers, and behave however they want, without ever being punished. A real system should be automated and be non-discriminatory with punishments against admins.
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I think you're exaggerating. Anyways..
That's actually a very good idea. Automated bans literally could be a thing so you don't just have obvious trolls and throwers running rampant ruining people's gathers until an admin gets a chance to actually have someone review them. Even if they have someone dedicated to doing this, they can't be expected to have someone checking things 24/7. I think automated punishments for leaving itmog and not showing up can be easily scripted.
And the same values could be applied to AFK-ing too long mid-game. I've had so many people afk in the past few days it's unbelievable. I know it has always been a problem, but I feel like there's even more now. I'd rather have someone toxic like Timmeh than someone who is going to troll and afk. At least you can actually have a game with someone who is toxic. All you have to do is mute them and it's done.
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soldat-game,
You have received a warning for insulting other users and/or staff members. Please cease these activities and abide by the forum rules otherwise we will take further action.
Regards,
The Official Soldat Forums Team.
Where is reference to expression?
What is bad in opinion in https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45088.0 "So nothing was done?" Why all time remove this post?
"Hey, I wrote messages on these topics (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45088.0
https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.0), about deleting this message in this topic.
https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45088.0
"So nothing was done hahahahahaha" Rekt admins remove this all time why? It does not break the rules."
(http://s10.ifotos.pl/img/HelloRekt_qnrwwsx.png)
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I recently found myself with a bit more time and read through most of the posts in this thread. Thank you Coco for starting a discussion once again. It seems to have at least reached MM and I think this is where both the problem and solution lies.
If you look around the plethora of games these days (and past days) you'd have a hard time to find a game that equals Soldat, both community- and gameplay-wise. Soldat has a unique approach to what is probably the most successful game genre: Shooters. Contrary to most 2D shooter adaptions it has used the 2 dimensions it has to full potential: You need movement, aim, positioning, speed, intelligence and a good portion of cunningness in order to succeed at this game. In that sense it can measure itself with the greatest of the gaming world: Counterstrike, Battlefield, Dota, League of Legends, etc.
Because of the fact it has a near perfect gameplay by design and a good balance between the different requirements for reaching a high skill, it has succeeded in reaching something most (indie-)games would dream of: A dedicated community that even after more than a decade is still willing to jump into the trenches for their beloved game. Soldat has a real history, it has players that still think back to it after many years. It has volunteers that still work for this game with a fierce dedication.
Hence I consider Soldat a true masterpiece and I think it takes a truly talented artist to make such a game. For me this is exactly where the problem lies: The genius itself has completely forgotten how truly fucking great this game is that started it all for him. I can only speculate on the reasons for it. Maybe it is because he is ashamed of how foolishly some parts of it are coded? Maybe it reminds him of a past he isn't so eager to think back to? Or maybe he simply lost interest in this project. I don't know. But whatever it is, it shouldn't stop him.
Dear MM,
I am begging you. Find back to your very first roots. You are undoubtedly someone with a passion for games, especially for making them. You are fortunate enough to have the talent to make really good games happen that are very unique in this sector.
I am begging you to remind yourself of what has started this passion of yours, to remind yourself of your very first piece of art. I may have become very inactive, but I still follow Soldat. Because I truly love it. It's by FAR the best game I have ever played, because it is completely unique. And I am only one of the many many people in this community. But we all share this same compassion.
I am asking you for the following: You have a full gaming company at your hands. Turn this game finally into what it always wanted to be: A magnificent piece of art, but this time polished. Invest some effort into this, however big or small. But it may be REAL effort, not just words.
So many have mentioned it here (in more or less fortunate words): Work on it, improve it (net code or lobby come to mind for example) - then: Advertise it with your reach that you have at your disposal. Help to bring a few new people into this community, because the community has the whole infrastructure for it. Thats the game you've created and by that the community you helped to create. It's a unique and amazing thing. Stop hiding this game as if it was an ugly child of yours. It is beautiful. And you should be god-damn fucking PROUD of it!
Please help us. Please help this community. Everyone here deserves it. Gives us the answer you promised 2 weeks ago. Give us some hope.
Dear Shoozza,
I have spoken to you back in the days from time to time. Not overly often, but sometimes. You actually always struck me as a reasonable kind of guy who's got his heart at the right place. That is of course also the only explanation why you would still be sticking with us, with Soldat. I don't question for a second that you have a deep compassion for this game. But what I have seen in this thread so far (and what I see in some of the accusations towards you here) reminds me a lot of previous experiences I have made with this community.
Soldat has a great community, because it's full of willing and dedicated people. However, it's also a very rough community, because it has always been a bay for people that are very dissatisfied with their lives. I don't know you nearly well enough to know whether you are a sensitive man or not. I was and therefor I know what can happen to sensitive people. When I became an SCTFL admin I was young, eager, dedicated and willing to change things. And I did. It earned me a bad reputation for many of my older colleagues and a generally good one with my new colleagues and the community. I never became the target of the community as a whole like you did. If I had, I don't know how I would have responded. When we, as humans, are sensitive we lean towards becoming unreasonable to protect ourselves. I've seen this with many of my colleagues, with other people in the community. I would do many things differently today. I've learned.
So, I can't really judge whether you are as sensitive as I am, but I am pretty sure you are. Most people are, it's not a weakness, it's actually a strength if you learn how to deal with it. I think you are a good man, Shoozza. But it also looks to me that you have been led astray a bit by your emotions. That is no judgmental accusation, rather take it as an advice from an old friend by heart who has made a ton of mistakes while he had a leading position in this community.
Many of the accusations people make in here are probably justified in some way. Some of them are way too toxic, and a few of them are certainly just wrong. And I think you know that, otherwise you wouldn't react in a defensive fashion. Let me tell you one thing: It doesn't really matter if some of these things are right. Let them be right, acknowledge them, because mistakes are completely normal. All of us have done so many of them. You grow by acknowledging them. And understand that most of the people that voice themselves in a disrespectful and insulting mostly mean well for the game too. They have never really learned how to deal with their emotions, have never really understood that making themselves really heard won't work over toxicity. Don't become one of those people.
So my advice for you is: Acknowledge your mistakes and learn from them. Come out of your shell and start replying to the people that need YOU. Start right here. The same goes for Michal Marcinkowski. If you want to improve things you need to start communicating. Communication is always the first step of improvement when we deal with other people.
I hope this doesn't go unheard. I hope it will see replies from Shoozza and MM, replies that we all dearly need.
I am aware it's just one of the many opinions that are voiced here. But I think if anything will happen to the game, the people that have to react now are the developers. That is namely Shoozza and MM (possibly even Transhuman Design).
I really wish Soldat will not just continue with its slow decay. It's truly a magnificent game. And everyone involved should be proud of it.
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Thanks Kenix, for taking your time to write this reasonable post I am happy to finally have the time to reply to some threads and I think this one is my favorite one so far.
I don't deny that I didn't handle things in the best manner and made a lot of mistakes. I'm in charge for how things move forward and therefore I'm responsible for any issues. That's how I see it and how I have worked in the past.
If I knew thinks would go this wrong I'd probably rethink picking up soldat again or at least plan accordingly.
There are times when it is easy to deal with toxicity and there are times when it is not, it depends on what else you have on your mind.
I'm fine with criticism and feedback. There are different was to communicate and I prefer one which doesn't require me to cut through anger, hate and/or trolling in a post to finally get to the important parts and think about how they can be resolved.
It is certainly true that a positive environment is helpful. This was why I asked if people could be less toxic and build a positive environment. I think it wasn't communicated well and people took it as criticism which is unfortunate.
As to why things got so silent: I think it is due to me being busier than ever before and also because I have less energy available to work on Soldat.
Dealing with toxic and/or distorted and negative stories about me isn't something I am interested in as it is eats a lot of time and energy to argue with people writing them.
Cutting down on things that make me lose energy was the logical first step. After all everyone wants a new version asap.
Another reason why I didn't reply was due to the fact that I almost didn't use my PC for the last few weeks. I tried to get some replacement parts for my laptop so I can do stuff on the go but so far I had bad luck with the parts I ordered.
I was really low on energy when the community got upset, and I hope you can understand that my plea for less toxicity was me asking for community support.
You probably read my post in which I mentioned my conversation with MM about the situation and you can see how he tried to lift me up.
I don't want to go too deep into what you wrote to MM but I can tell you that he decided to give soldat to the community by open sourcing it instead of keeping it a comercial game or investing money into it. This was something the community asked for and which I actually want to achive as well even though I keep thinking about the consequences for the community as it isn't without downsides.
Again thanks for your post, I'm glad we also have people like you in this community.
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Hey Shoozza. Glad to have you back!
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Thanks for the great post, Shoozza!
With regard to people being toxic in the community and mean trolling posts, I think everyone should read this book (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People) at least once in their lives as it makes it very clear that criticizing people never leads to positive results, and describes how you need to act and behave if you want other people to get things done.
The Soldat community and the world in general would be a much better place if everyone took the following to heart:
Don't criticize, condemn, or complain. Human nature does not like to admit fault. When people are criticized or humiliated, they rarely respond well and will often become defensive and resent their critic. To handle people well, we must never criticize, condemn or complain because it will never result in the behavior we desire.
Give honest and sincere appreciation. Appreciation is one of the most powerful tools in the world. People will rarely work at their maximum potential under criticism, but honest appreciation brings out their best. Appreciation, though, is not simple flattery, it must be sincere, meaningful and with love.
Arouse in the other person an eager want. To get what we want from another person, we must forget our own perspective and begin to see things from the point of view of others. When we can combine our desires with their wants, they become eager to work with us and we can mutually achieve our objectives.
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Long Live Soldat.
Long Live Shoozza!
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Thanks for the great post, Shoozza!
With regard to people being toxic in the community and mean trolling posts, I think everyone should read this book (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People) at least once in their lives as it makes it very clear that criticizing people never leads to positive results, and describes how you need to act and behave if you want other people to get things done.
The Soldat community and the world in general would be a much better place if everyone took the following to heart:
And I would recommend checking "reality" at least one time in your life. Then you will realize that most amazing inventions and ideas where made under the pressure of work or during the wars. Best people and best inventions where made not because everyone fake-praise them, but because they worked in times where everyone where against them not believing that they manage to finish their work. This show real character of person, who can deal with their own mistakes and negative opinions and do what no one believed is possible.
Reality is best teacher, and there is just no "self-help" book that teach you how to work, live and deal with problems. Not to mention that any book like that(even if that one was more or less first in genre) clearly show that some people seriously need help, because if you looking for life related solutions in a book, you have serious issues..
Its really like listening someone talking about fixing diesel engine and all his knowledge is based on book... You see, sometimes in your life you need to get dirty to learn things, you cant spend time looking for fancy quotes, but it not really help you.
But most obvious problem here is not your recommended book, but really lame attempt to cover problems of Soldat under "Drama" or "Toxic in the community." label.
You literally pretend that there is no problems, its all drama, and everything is fine, when rest of people just express their opinion. But for you, any negative opinion is "toxic" and we all should really just prise each other no matter of what we do. Its literally what make community "toxic". Pretending that its kindergarten, and everyone should get star in their homework, even if they didnt do it properly.
Right now no one really care about few people who still lick each other butts pretending its candy. Majority of people said what they think, and I dont mean this forum only. People who where responsible for Soldat for past years screwed up so hard that it should be in Guinness World Records book, and what people really did, was nothing more than pointing out that. But for you its "toxic". OK. you can sit near MM and pretend that its 0.1% of community. And do exactly the same thing as for last 10 years not trying to fix problems at all...
Beside, you give us just perfect example of cancer that eat society for past years, where instead of teaching kids and people how to work hard, how to deal with obstacles in life, we teach them to apologize for everything and pretend that everything is ok. its literally trying to live in fake world.
Of course negative opinions are hard to swallow, but no one here really said anything that is not true.
Did MM pissed on his own life work that put him where he is now? Yes.
Did Shoozza screwed up as dev leader? yes.
Does people behind Soldat screwed up planing and advertising of Soldat to prepare it for major changes? yep.
Does people who worked with soldat for past years should prepare it for big updates/steam long time ago? yes.
Do Soldat need right now major changes in how its made and published? of course!
Point is that not many people left playing Soldat, and all what you have now is maybe 100 angry and tired people who want just proper game updates and development process. Not some rushed updates just for steam, that dont change anything.
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Akinaro, what I'm getting at are not the points being raised themselves, but the phrasing, delivery, and tone which makes them toxic.
Take a look at Kenix's post for an example of a well written and polite post (which actually garnered a reply from Shoozza), and on the other end of the spectrum take a look at your post history.
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The phrasing/tone is adequate to the situation. We had opportunity to make some progress and change something and then people were making valid posts and discussion. The circus rolled out when MM and Shosho made some claims and promises and once again didn't stick to them. We were sitting silently on servers with growing confidence, that all the points made against MN's decisions and current dev(s) progress were true.
Once people get actually mad, cause somebody spit at them once again, dude comes back claiming it's the harsh words turned it all into crumble. Try to read a book about growin up, because when someone complains about the negative attitute and on the other hand doesn't keep his promises, it's the only thing i can recommend. If u want to be respected, you have to respect others.
And then we get that devlog that even Loner's writting abilities couldn't help.
And then Shoozza comes back and claims he couldn't post cause his PC broke. Probably smartphone died in the same accident. Im not surprised he didnt respond and I personally don't see why would he need to, cause there is nothing really to respond to anymore. The history tells that Sho "came back" more times than he actually came back, if u catch my drift.
I'm just bitter because we had and alternative, and each official post and passing days proves that the alternative was the only way.
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Akinaro just writes the hard truth, Viral same and the other guys too, it's their opinions, presonally I also agree with them (it's to the point that I agree literally with all posts that Akinaro write).
People are just mad (mostly those on forum) and dissapointed (those who plays game regulary or even those who come back to check what's going on cause they heard that Soldat is going on Steam) cause of those promises that you couldn't keep. Nearly whole of players are so dissapointed that Steam wasn't released yet (in December), those who come back are just like "wtf, they didn't do shit again, fu this game, see you later next month, half year or year."
Never promise if you are not gonna do it, and if you promise plz maybe try doing it at least.
OK, Shoozza finally posted that he made some mistakes etc, but posting on forum isn't what Soldat's need. What it needs are fixes and working hard on update, not complaining about shit and posting shit. If community is toxic... just don't read this damned forum and get to work. Shoozza don't even need to post dev logs himself so... just do it! You gonna post when you reach some milestone of update, then you gonna be like "stfu, look what I done, bye, goin back to work, I don't have time to make toxic drama over there".
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Akinaro, what I'm getting at are not the points being raised themselves, but the phrasing, delivery, and tone which makes them toxic.
Take a look at Kenix's post for an example of a well written and polite post (which actually garnered a reply from Shoozza), and on the other end of the spectrum take a look at your post history.
I think it is an attempt of him justifying his style of writing.
You don't have to pack your post with generalizations, accusations and superlatives.
Just deliver your points in a non charged way.
There is not even a need to put a positive spin on it if you don't add anything in a negative tone.
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I really dont care if someone like my writing style or not, but that is not the point here.
Its not a beauty content, and Im not a person who gonna pretend to be nice just because you cant handle negative opinions. If someone deserved to be treated nicely, I will treat them nicely, but if someone F things up for years, and then when people finally point it out, he show up pretending that his computer was broken, all what he can get is laugh and slap in the face with facts.
For years people tried to point out what was wrong, and you completely ignored them, in the same time you covered yourself with users that just lick each other prising you no matter what you make. Now they all gone because there is a limit for how long you can pretend being nice.
There is no other way to point things up now beside slap you in the face with a bat and shout "wake up!".
But Im guessing that its also not gonna help, because without proper shake-up, Soldat will never stand up from its knees, and its look like MM dont really want make his hand dirty to fix its own child.
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I really dont care if someone like my writing style or not, but that is not the point here.
It's not about liking but about effectiveness and reaching your goals.
Its not a beauty content, and Im not a person who gonna pretend to be nice just because you cant handle negative opinions. If someone deserved to be treated nicely, I will treat them nicely, but if someone F things up for years, and then when people finally point it out, he show up pretending that his computer was broken, all what he can get is laugh and slap in the face with facts.
See my post above, you don't have to pretend, just cut out the generalizations, accusations and superlatives.
For years people tried to point out what was wrong, and you completely ignored them, in the same time you covered yourself with users that just lick each other prising you no matter what you make. Now they all gone because there is a limit for how long you can pretend being nice.
See the two parts above.
There is no other way to point things up now beside slap you in the face with a bat and shout "wake up!".
But Im guessing that its also not gonna help, because without proper shake-up, Soldat will never stand up from its knees, and its look like MM dont really want make his hand dirty to fix its own child.
The shake up worked in the opposite way. Not sure how continuing with it will do any good now. At least if the goal is to get me to work on the game.
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I, and probably everyone else would be really happy if you would spend such amount of energy an time to reply to all comments that we had for past months instead of being mad at my post.
Seriously, Im amazed that you actually spend time replaying it instead of defending yourself and your work, and replying to all remaining players who clearly post lots of smaller questions that need answers.
But ok, If you want play dumb and pretend that everything is fine, I dont mind, for me its actually entertaining to watch how you all treat players like morons and play "drama" card over and over instead of actually fix what need to be fixed.
Because its clear that development of Soldat was broken, you are one of biggest reason of that, and it need serious shake-up and personal changes in team. So if for past good 10 years none of you managed to actually do anything, its clear that current development dont work properly and MM as owner need to make new proper team with proper dev structure where everyone do their jobs as they need to.
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I, and probably everyone else would be really happy if you would spend such amount of energy an time to reply to all comments that we had for past months instead of being mad at my post.
That is unreasonable. I already asked for a proper thread to discuss the issues. See my other thread about that.
Seriously, Im amazed surpsised that you actually spend time replaying to my postit instead of defending yourself and your work, and replying to all remaining players who clearly post lots of smaller questions that need answers.
Also see above.
But ok, If you want play dumb and pretend that everything think is fine, I dont mind, for me its actually entertaining to watch how you all treat players like morons and play "drama" card over and over instead of actually fix what need to be fixed.
You seem to have a hard time learning. Read my post about effectiveness and goals.
Because its clear that development of Soldat was broken, you are one of biggest reason of that, and it need serious shake-up and personal changes in team. So if for past good 10 years none of you managed to actually do anything, its clear that current development dont work properly and MM as owner need to make new proper team with proper dev structure where everyone do their jobs as they need to.
See my previous reply and my reply to Kenix.
I'm a tired telling you the same thing over and over again, so please either actually read and understand what people are telling you or stop posting.
However since your goal seems to get rid of me, I suggest you just stop posting until you are ready to work with instead of against the people who work on soldat.
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I admire your patience with subjects such as egos bloated up like that. To be honest, I'd probably give them a swing with the hammer. It's nice to see you putting up with idiotic dogmatism as presented here. :)
What I can add to the discussion going on here from a perspective of someone who hasn't been involved with anything for almost 2 years now is that you gotta take your time with the Steam release. You have strong contenders there, and since we live in a time where you have a plethora of games to choose from, Western gamers want to get into the action immediatly. If they run into trouble with settings / bugs etc. in the first 30 minutes of playing a new game, they'll just drop it and play something else. The last thing we want to do now is rush the release with a set date and fuck it up big time.
You go Shoozza. ;)
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I admire your patience with subjects such as egos bloated up like that. To be honest, I'd probably give them a swing with the hammer. It's nice to see you putting up with idiotic dogmatism as presented here. :)
What I can add to the discussion going on here from a perspective of someone who hasn't been involved with anything for almost 2 years now is that you gotta take your time with the Steam release. You have strong contenders there, and since we live in a time where you have a plethora of games to choose from, Western gamers want to get into the action immediatly. If they run into trouble with settings / bugs etc. in the first 30 minutes of playing a new game, they'll just drop it and play something else. The last thing we want to do now is rush the release with a set date and fuck it up big time.
You go Shoozza. ;)
You want to deliver the game full for free. Why dont you charge $5 like someone mentioned earlier, for the full game (you can throw in a little surprise, a new feature/option?). (lots of rich soldaters $$ dont lie xd)
Having payed for a game on steam makes it more appealing to spend time on it playing than on a game that was given free. (talking about players on steam that dont know soldatito)
On the other hand this would help as motivation for you to make more time to develop the game. (Shoozita)
All could go better than expected.
The community can give back too.
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I admire your patience with subjects such as egos bloated up like that. To be honest, I'd probably give them a swing with the hammer. It's nice to see you putting up with idiotic dogmatism as presented here. :)
What I can add to the discussion going on here from a perspective of someone who hasn't been involved with anything for almost 2 years now is that you gotta take your time with the Steam release. You have strong contenders there, and since we live in a time where you have a plethora of games to choose from, Western gamers want to get into the action immediatly. If they run into trouble with settings / bugs etc. in the first 30 minutes of playing a new game, they'll just drop it and play something else. The last thing we want to do now is rush the release with a set date and fuck it up big time.
You go Shoozza. ;)
You want to deliver the game full for free. Why dont you charge $5 like someone mentioned earlier, for the full game (you can throw in a little surprise, a new feature/option?). (lots of rich soldaters $$ dont lie xd)
Having payed for a game on steam makes it more appealing to spend time on it playing than on a game that was given free. (talking about players on steam that dont know soldatito)
On the other hand this would help as motivation for you to make more time to develop the game. (Shoozita)
All could go better than expected.
The community can give back too.
That's up to MM, he chose to make it freeware.
I never worked on the game for financial gains though, so not sure if it willl motivate me more.
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That's up to MM, he chose to make it freeware.
I never worked on the game for financial gains though, so not sure if it willl motivate me more.
Most soldaters are happy about the free game so we cant take it away, agreed.
Im glad you dont want to open source yet and that you noticed some guys wanted to make you rage quit in some way.
Not cool guys, not very gentlemanly.
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I admire your patience with subjects such as egos bloated up like that. To be honest, I'd probably give them a swing with the hammer. It's nice to see you putting up with idiotic dogmatism as presented here. :)
What I can add to the discussion going on here from a perspective of someone who hasn't been involved with anything for almost 2 years now is that you gotta take your time with the Steam release. You have strong contenders there, and since we live in a time where you have a plethora of games to choose from, Western gamers want to get into the action immediatly. If they run into trouble with settings / bugs etc. in the first 30 minutes of playing a new game, they'll just drop it and play something else. The last thing we want to do now is rush the release with a set date and fuck it up big time.
You go Shoozza. ;)
Aren't you Cast? I think Cast was using that exact pic at least.
Akinaro, what I'm getting at are not the points being raised themselves, but the phrasing, delivery, and tone which makes them toxic.
Take a look at Kenix's post for an example of a well written and polite post (which actually garnered a reply from Shoozza), and on the other end of the spectrum take a look at your post history.
I think it is an attempt of him justifying his style of writing.
You don't have to pack your post with generalizations, accusations and superlatives.
Just deliver your points in a non charged way.
There is not even a need to put a positive spin on it if you don't add anything in a negative tone.
Some people in the "community" should take some time and try to figure out why people put some negative charge behind some posts. May have something to do with ignoring, and a very large does of egocentrism from certain "community leaders".
There's such a huge amount of ass-licking going on in this community, it's insane. Well, certainly lots of other games and communities has that, and they probably run by the same rules. Which is basically, "admin everyone who's licking your ass", "never punish those who lick your ass" and "never cause any drama is a fellow admin abuses their power".
Just looking at the interactions with one another tells you how fake their relationships are, there's nothing there other than the mutual butt kissing that's been going on for a few years.
At least one person on the discord channel has been permanently banned because he "flamed" admins, or talked back at them (telling the admin he sucked at the game), obvoiusly by abusing admin powers to create a situation where the admin can "justify" the ban. Meanwhile, there are hackers who've been caught 3x or more who still are free to play on that channel, pretty much because they've licked enough butt.
Hopefully that helps in your pondering of why some people charges their posts with a negative tone.
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Some people in the "community" shouldYou could take some time and try to figure out why people put some negative charge behind some posts. May have something to do with ignoring, and a very large does of your egocentrism from certain "community leaders".
Please read my other post in this thread were Akinaro suggested the same thing. I addressed the ignoring part as well.
There's such a huge amount lot of ass-licking going on in this community, it's insane. Well, certainly lots of other games and communities has that, and they probably run by the same rules. Which is basically, "admin everyone who's licking your ass", "never punish those who lick your ass" and "never cause any drama is a fellow admin abuses their power". People who are supportive are admins here and they abuse their power.
Just looking at the interactions with one another tells you how fake their relationships are, there's nothing there other than the mutual butt kissing that's been going on for a few years.
Makes sense that admins are supportive people. Maybe try to be supportive as well, it might help. I suggested that in a post above as well. I'll skip the admin abuse part, better address the admins directly for the specific issue (in another thread), vague statements aren't helpful in resolving potential abusive issues.
At least one person on the discord channel has been permanently banned because he "flamed" admins, or talked back at them (telling the admin he sucked at the game), obvoiusly by abusing admin powers to create a situation where the admin can "justify" the ban. Meanwhile, there are hackers who've been caught 3x or more who still are free to play on that channel, pretty much because they've licked enough butt.
The discord chat has it's own rules and a different combination of people administrating it. It is a community run chat. If you have issues with their administration you probably have to talk to them instead.
Hopefully that helps in your pondering of why some people charges their posts with a negative tone.
I don't think you mentioned something I didn't already knew :/
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OK, Shoozza finally posted that he made some mistakes etc, but posting on forum isn't what Soldat's need. What it needs are fixes and working hard on update, not complaining about shit and posting shit. If community is toxic... just don't read this damned forum and get to work. Shoozza don't even need to post dev logs himself so... just do it! You gonna post when you reach some milestone of update, then you gonna be like "stfu, look what I done, bye, goin back to work, I don't have time to make toxic drama over there".
Why do you even waste time on posting on this forum? Isn't there anything to do, any updates, fixes? Any work waiting to do for about 7 months? (or if you want, for 10 YEARS) We have there admins to scold us, they don't need to work on anything really important for everyone. You want us to think about some replacement topic or de fuq? Starting to regret that I met you in Soldat. Why do I even need to repeat myself...
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Jesus theres a lot of salty little shits here. We get it, Soldats been mistreated for years before, but do you really think bitching about that is going to fix anything? Do something yourself to help Soldat, instead of bitching here 24/7. This is not directed at anyone specifically, but those guilty should know who they are.
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At least go read some posts explaining what's going on, because you clearly missed what's going on. And even your pathetic "fix it yourself" solution don't apply here, as this approach already didn't give good results. So stop bitching 24/7 here u little shit, lul
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Jesus theres a lot of salty little shits here. We get it, Soldats been mistreated for years before, but do you really think bitching about that is going to fix anything?
You dont get the point, we mentioning that Soldat development was F up for years because we expect changes and fixes in development and all we have are the same people, the same lazy approach, the same "I dont care, leave me alone" attitude from MM and the same bending time and reality of people behind it that pretend that everything is OK.
If for past years current team and development show us that its not capable of pushing Soldat forward and creating proper advertising and community platform for game, its obvious that there need to be personal changes. Even that old and annoying saying that soldat have bad made code is not excuse because for all those years you could rewrite it few times even if you would just spend few minutes per week on it.
Do something yourself to help Soldat, instead of bitching here 24/7. This is not directed at anyone specifically, but those guilty should know who they are.
Are you serious? People spend on this forum hundreds of hours creating concepts, graphics, maps, scripts, posting ideas and suggestions. NONE of that was implemented for all those years. So dont fricking dare to say to all those people to "do something" when for past years they did lots of things and post lots of ideas. Dev team didnt care about it back then and they dont care now. You can right now post whole 100 pages project concept with examples and advertising suggestions and no one will give a damn about it.
In this forum we had probably more than 100 people with talent and willingness to help, but no one care to use them. Now they all gone or are tired of waiting. All what left in those people is bitterness and sadness that Soldat for all those years stuck with devs that dont really cared about fixing game, just look at all updates we had for past years.
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At least go read some posts explaining what's going on, because you clearly missed what's going on. And even your pathetic "fix it yourself" solution don't apply here, as this approach already didn't give good results. So stop bitching 24/7 here u little shit, lul
Here is a good example of one of those salty shells that won't let go of the past. No point even arguing with you, go whine more on some other threads.
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Jesus theres a lot of salty little shits here. We get it, Soldats been mistreated for years before, but do you really think bitching about that is going to fix anything?
You dont get the point, we mentioning that Soldat development was F up for years because we expect changes and fixes in development and all we have are the same people, the same lazy approach, the same "I dont care, leave me alone" attitude from MM and the same bending time and reality of people behind it that pretend that everything is OK.
If for past years current team and development show us that its not capable of pushing Soldat forward and creating proper advertising and community platform for game, its obvious that there need to be personal changes. Even that old and annoying saying that soldat have bad made code is not excuse because for all those years you could rewrite it few times even if you would just spend few minutes per week on it.
Do something yourself to help Soldat, instead of bitching here 24/7. This is not directed at anyone specifically, but those guilty should know who they are.
Are you serious? People spend on this forum hundreds of hours creating concepts, graphics, maps, scripts, posting ideas and suggestions. NONE of that was implemented for all those years. So dont fricking dare to say to all those people to "do something" when for past years they did lots of things and post lots of ideas. Dev team didnt care about it back then and they dont care now. You can right now post whole 100 pages project concept with examples and advertising suggestions and no one will give a damn about it.
In this forum we had probably more than 100 people with talent and willingness to help, but no one care to use them. Now they all gone or are tired of waiting. All what left in those people is bitterness and sadness that Soldat for all those years stuck with devs that dont really cared about fixing game, just look at all updates we had for past years.
Yes, that is what I meant by "mistreated for years", I've been here long enough to know devs haven't held their end of the deal. Having said that you have an opportunity here to atleast triple the player base. You have a dev team that's atleast made a few promises this time around and seems to be working. If you don't believe in them, then don't post... its not going to help anyone's case. That is all I am saying.
You obviously do care about Soldat, but like you said yourself, you've become one of those people bitter and sad after all these years. Try again, post more ideas, show that you care about the game instead of adding to the negativity.
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We are insisting on "letting go of the past" and then you come around and tell me to let go of the past? Unless you refer to 2005... But that's kinda long time ago. I think it's high time to change something finally, but some "salty shells" won't let go and would rather defend the current development status rather than make a step forward. Try to look at it from this perspective and then tell us, who is conservative one?
We didn't even started to discuss, you just called everyone retarded and useless xD Pretty ironic that most of the people "whining" here made a lot more than you ever did, so dont play that card here, cause its amusing.
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We are insisting on "letting go of the past" and then you come around and tell me to let go of the past? Unless you refer to 2005... But that's kinda long time ago. I think it's high time to change something finally, but some "salty shells" won't let go and would rather defend the current development status rather than make a step forward. Try to look at it from this perspective and then tell us, who is conservative one?
We didn't even started to discuss, you just called everyone retarded and useless xD Pretty ironic that most of the people "whining" here made a lot more than you ever did, so dont play that card here, cause its amusing.
I never said to let go of the past, I said stop complaining about it. I also never directed that initial comment towards you. If you are someone looking to positively change the game then why would you even reply to my comment? Do you just feel the need to start an argument or do you have a guilty conscience?
I never said I support the current development process. I said there is some work being done (which is a good thing) and whining about it like you are isn't going to help speed it up or motivate anyone to do anymore. I'm also not saying let the devs run rampant, but there's a way to ask and discuss that doesn't turn the entire thread into a shitshow.
I also never called anyone retarded, just salty. You seem to enjoy making stuff up. Maybe you have done more for this game than me, maybe not, but that's not the point. This game needs more collaboration and ideas now more than ever.
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one of those salty shells that won't let go of the past
Yes you did, at least thats how it sounds. The difference between "little shit" and being retarded.. I didn't quote you on calling someone retarded - should've used "insulted" instead, my bad.
You spoke to the part of the community that complains about current situation, so I feel like the part of it and I take that comment personally aswell.
The work being done is not sufficient at all and its been like this for years like this. We had talented people willing to help, but got turned down (you know the rest, so I wont repeat myself).
I feel like I can complain as much as I want to now, because I expect the dedication that the people opting for OS would provide (at least some of them proved that). I don't care about "new sorting priority" and other meaningless changes. That's now what its needed. Changes like this were present for the past few years and here we are now.
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Wow coconutmilk achieved something, what a day. Wipes tears from my eyes.
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Hey everybody,
I'm sorry I can't give any official announcement at the moment. For the past 2 weeks I've been talking with Shoozza and a few others from the community. I'm trying to get to know everybody's perspective.
For me, the best solution at the moment would be for Shoozza to continue development and release Soldat on Steam ASAP. We still need to figure out some problems and maybe I can say more about an official decision. I'll try to respond next week.
Thank you everybody for participating in the argument, I'm trying my best to figure this out. I know Soldat is a great game and deserves a great future. But it is a problematic child for me :). So things take time and I don't want to make haphazard decisions, which I've made in the past and I want to avoid that. I'll have more info next week.
Peace <3
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Another rushed update just for sake of Steam, containing nothing significant for players = check.
That only one chance to hit the market and new players(Steam) spend to release version of game that will literally scare away any new players because of old look and lack of important features = check.
2 week discussion that should be cleared few years ago, and now its a matter of finding balls and make a decision. = check.
Everything is normal people! Nothing to see here, move on. Pretend that everything is ok like you always do!
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Yeah, putting it back into Falcons or helloers hands would be the best way to go.
A steam release won't do anything for soldat in it's current state... Honestly, I have very little hope for soldat.
It needs a fresh take.
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Is Soldat advertised/mentioned in other THD games? If not maybe add at least adverts in other games of your own company MM. ;) And also update Soldats official site and Soldats page on THD website aswell. I also mentioned in other thread about making a reference to Butcher in Soldat.
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MM I do understand that you want to avoid any official annoucments since it would make you obligated to try and fullfill them but I have few minor issues that I would really like to see your reply.
I just got back into playing like 3 weeks ago or more after being inactive for a long time. Game hasn't changed a bit, there was no new versions so how come we can all experience the drop of quality in gameplay? I mean that eats have increased and some players are so aware of that they arent going to die that they even boost themselves while having almost no HP. So how is it possible that without any official changes game gets worse?
Second question is about taking some official action against that guy Rosenrot who have been broadcasting hack download links and ddosing servers for two days now (and for sure in the past aswell) and is succesfully preventing us to play. I mean Soldat is after all YOUR game and YOUR Transhuman Design studio. Can't you take some legal action against him. Your HQ are located in Poland and last i checked our law makes it possible to puruse him for his doing.
Cheers
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Hey everybody,
I'm sorry I can't give any official announcement at the moment. For the past 2 weeks I've been talking with Shoozza and a few others from the community. I'm trying to get to know everybody's perspective.
For me, the best solution at the moment would be for Shoozza to continue development and release Soldat on Steam ASAP. We still need to figure out some problems and maybe I can say more about an official decision. I'll try to respond next week.
Thank you everybody for participating in the argument, I'm trying my best to figure this out. I know Soldat is a great game and deserves a great future. But it is a problematic child for me :). So things take time and I don't want to make haphazard decisions, which I've made in the past and I want to avoid that. I'll have more info next week.
Peace <3
NO...... please no.. thats exactly what the community does not want... can you read all the posts from start? Or why you are ignoring them?
This thread isnt about Soldat dying, but Soldat dying coz of developer team (Shoozza) and creator (You). And first thing you do is announce that you was "2weeks talking" with him and he will stay main developer, WOW, what a change that we asked for...Then you say after 2 weeks of talking you dont have anything to say and you will have more info in 1 week.
It has been two weeks after this and nothing, Soldat is in phase where we critically need new developer team and some actions. For last days competive community cant play gathers on discord anymore, because we got ddos attacks again and there is none to solve it...
Our only developer is ignoring the whole community and with his lack of activity is damaging soldat so hard, we tried to tell you in this thread, but looks like you didnt read all the posts or you just dont care or ignore us, I really dont know ..
Shoozzaa could you begin to behave like a developer please, you are ignoring the community, cant show us what are you working on now, any activity or info,talking with people
You are atm useless for soldat as developer since you admired that you dont have enough energy and motivation to work on soldat and money wont change it.
So its time to give your place to someone else, 99% of the community is waiting for it.
I remember back in the days when you actually worked on soldat and fixed things, talked with people on irc etc Shoozza but now you just RAN AWAY from all the problems
trying to release steam fast asap to show that you work on soldat to MM, and then again 10years afk,no ty and it wont save your inactivity and behaviour of past years ..
if you dont believe me read opinions of the rest, it needs big upgrades and work that you wasnt able to do in 10 years, before we can release it on steam lol.
We really need new active developer team, big actions and after that MM can advertise Soldat like a real game.
MM WE WANT SOME ACTION, NOT POINTLESS TALKING AND DELAYING ON FORUMS, STOP IGNORING ALL THE POSTS IN THIS THREAD
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Second question is about taking some official action against that guy Rosenrot who have been broadcasting hack download links and ddosing servers for two days now (and for sure in the past aswell) and is succesfully preventing us to play. I mean Soldat is after all YOUR game and YOUR Transhuman Design studio. Can't you take some legal action against him. Your HQ are located in Poland and last i checked our law makes it possible to puruse him for his doing.
Cheers
LOL. I created a topic about this guy and this topic has been removed. The argument is: "Stop write anything about him, because he will get angry and destroy the game completely. Let's pretend everything is fine and nothing happens". Nice community ha-ha-ha. This guy still using the same HWID number (and the same IP range)! He plays every day on public servers - NOBODY BANNED HIM ha-ha-ha-ha :D And then the same people start to cry "someone destroys my server :'("
No comment.
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Second question is about taking some official action against that guy Rosenrot who have been broadcasting hack download links and ddosing servers for two days now (and for sure in the past aswell) and is succesfully preventing us to play. I mean Soldat is after all YOUR game and YOUR Transhuman Design studio. Can't you take some legal action against him. Your HQ are located in Poland and last i checked our law makes it possible to puruse him for his doing.
Cheers
LOL. I created a topic about this guy and this topic has been removed. The argument is: "Stop write anything about him, because he will get angry and destroy the game completely. Let's pretend everything is fine and nothing happens". Nice community ha-ha-ha. This guy still using the same HWID number (and the same IP range)! He plays every day on public servers - NOBODY BANNED HIM ha-ha-ha-ha :D And then the same people start to cry "someone destroys my server :'("
No comment.
Yeah, admins pls change that stupid rule. I also would like to see that working:
We know hacks exists, and the people who can are doing things to bring hacking to an end.
SneS, about banning him: this retard is unbanable on HWID, he's emulating sistem and his HWID is changing cause of this... ;(
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Hi everyone,
I've been doing lots of talking back between some of the members of the community, and of course Shoozza.
For now I have decided that the best option is to continue development by Shoozza and release Soldat on Steam.
A rough estimate is the end of April, but please don't think this is set in stone, because there are many variables here.
None of the dev team is doing this for money and they have other responsibilities. So please be patient.
We all want the best for Soldat but it's not so easy as it seems.
In other news:
- Fryer is helping with the flood fix
- Shoozza is moving things forward and L[one]R is doing devlogs, so check that
- I'll be posting an announcement for a trailer contest.
Anyone that wants to contribute by making a video promoting Soldat which will be used on the Steam storefront has a chance to participate.
That's all for now,
Have fun and be nice :)
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Had Falcon been left in charge, or if helloer had become dev-lead, we would probably have had a 2ndary client for match making by now.
Please reconsider delaying steam by another year in favor of actually having a shot of soldat being renoticed by players. Soldat being released as is will do nothing to the player count, without match making, and without a good UI (2nd client), nobody will care to try this game. Also, some form of anti-cheat is required.
Monsteris graphical art afaik won't ever happen, due to disputes... While it was nice, it's not quite as essential to soldat as the other things.
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I've been doing lots of talking back between some of the members of the community, and of course Shoozza.
For now I have decided that the best option is to continue development by Shoozza and release Soldat on Steam.
A rough estimate is the end of April, but please don't think this is set in stone, because there are many variables here.
Damn... more than month of talking and we still have the same situation:
1. Rushed update of buggy and not prepared game just for sake of steam
2. The same, well known lazy development that dont really change anything from player perspective, especially in terms of game quality and speed.
3. Lack of balls to make any proper decisions, just simple and easy moving problems aside.
None of the dev team is doing this for money and they have other responsibilities. So please be patient.
Obvious thing is obvious. Soldat is not only game made for free in free time, and other projects actually do something visible, Soldat weirdly for years make maybe one small step to be prepared for such even as releasing game on steam, that I hope I dont need to remind you, its one time chance for game. If game is not prepared for it(and Soldat is not) it will get small hype for month-two and you end with the same situation as now.
Also if you really care about Soldat that put you where you are now, maybe its time to change strategy for it?
Start treating Soldat as a Game, not weekend project for few random people from forum? Get proper team, find help from other places, invest in that game and advertising, even small money and put it on top of the work list?
You realize that Soldat have huge potential with its gameplay, and all you really need to do is just make it look better, fix some problems with netcode and add few modern features that today players need. Rest is just advertising. I can bet my dog that if you would do this Soldat would hit market really nicely, even with paid features. Even those small bugs and constant WM war is nothing compared to other games problems, even hacking is not that big compared to other games. Its not more visible just because there is less players.
We all want the best for Soldat but it's not so easy as it seems.
I dont think so, If that would be true, past 10 years would be used properly and now we would not discuss anything here beside how much fin we got in last play.
- I'll be posting an announcement for a trailer contest.
Anyone that wants to contribute by making a video promoting Soldat which will be used on the Steam storefront has a chance to participate.
There is no one here, who gonna contribute? People who had time and talent are long time gone, and those few who check forum are not gonna spend time doing anything for game when they know that nothing they made will be used in any way.
Please tell us sincerely MM that you believe that Soldat in current stage is prepared for Steam and its quality, development and advertising is good to get new players. Go on, please. We are waiting.
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A rough estimate is the end of April, but please don't think this is set in stone, because there are many variables here.
We know. End of April = the day when the new release date will be revealed... Like always.
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A rough estimate is the end of April, but please don't think this is set in stone, because there are many variables here.
We know. End of April = the day when the new release date will be revealed... Like always.
Chill out guys, he didn't wrote that IT WILL happen for sure in the end of April! XD At least no lying this time.
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Hi everyone,
I've been doing lots of talking back between some of the members of the community, and of course Shoozza.
For now I have decided that the best option is to continue development by Shoozza and release Soldat on Steam.
A rough estimate is the end of April, but please don't think this is set in stone, because there are many variables here.
None of the dev team is doing this for money and they have other responsibilities. So please be patient.
We all want the best for Soldat but it's not so easy as it seems.
In other news:
- Fryer is helping with the flood fix
- Shoozza is moving things forward and L[one]R is doing devlogs, so check that
- I'll be posting an announcement for a trailer contest.
Anyone that wants to contribute by making a video promoting Soldat which will be used on the Steam storefront has a chance to participate.
That's all for now,
Have fun and be nice :)
urra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#NewWaveSoldat
8)
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Nah, It's definitelly gonna be on the 1st of April because 1.7.2 is a joke.
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I think we all know what to expect by now when promises are made...
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I think we all know what to expect by now when promises are made...
exactly xD
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I think we all know what to expect by now when promises are made...
Hahahahaha I just laughed at that promise part sorry bro, it is not personal but when I see promise and shoozza together, a hard laugh burst out from my throat :D
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I promise you that I put 100 monkeys in a room with just one computer, and they will fix all Soldat problems in less than 10 years! Beat that devs!
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Hope never dies... Save soldat :'(
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I can get back into doing graphics work and hopefully revive the efforts to completely remake (visually) all popular default maps, but I'm putting it off until solid progress is being made development-wise (Steam release at the minimum), and until it's clear that Soldat has a future. Considering how slow the progress is right now, and how many times the hopes have been shattered in the past, I don't want to dedicate a lot of time and effort only for it to get nowhere.
It's also unfortunate that I'm not the only one who feels that way. We have a lot of talented contributors on these forums who abandoned their efforts because they got sick of such slow pace of development and/or have personal grudges against the leadership. My hope is that open-sourcing will eliminate most of the development's hoops and loops, and offer people enough freedom to be interested again.
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it's just embarrassing to read all this.. end this game already
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Fortunately, not everyone harbours such pessimism & contempt for this magnificent game.
Long live Soldat!
<3
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XD
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It's nice to see that Shoozza thought about this thread and works hard and informs us about progress! KEEP WORKING :D
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It's nice to see that Shoozza thought about this thread and works hard and informs us about progress! KEEP WORKING :D
:-X ???
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It's nice to see that Shoozza thought about this thread and works hard and informs us about progress! KEEP WORKING :D
savage, 5/7 with friend rice.
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The end of April is coming so it's time for information:
Next "new release date": May 31.
:)
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Not really!
A rough estimate is the end of April, but please don't think this is set in stone, because there are many variables here.
but it's 2019, not some 2018! Damn people, get used. Never mentioned any year over there...
XD
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Not really!
A rough estimate is the end of April, but please don't think this is set in stone, because there are many variables here.
but it's 2019, not some 2018! Damn people, get used. Never mentioned any year over there...
XD
We are joking now but it is possible.