Official Soldat Forums
Soldat Talk => General Discussions => Topic started by: Vv00t-SN on October 27, 2006, 08:33:12 pm
-
Ive been wondering about how the general public views this topic for a while, so Im just gonna put it out there now.
Situation:
CTF: some teammate gets the enemy flag but is gunned down on the way to home (or at home while waiting for our flag to return).
I pick it up, and keep it. as soon as our flag returns I cap.
-> "******* ITS MY FLAG!!"
...but is it?
From his point of view he did all the work and got nothing for it except a death.
However.. If I hadnt been there while he died, the team wouldve lost the enemy flag entirely.
In my eyes, as soon as someone dies hes got NO right whatsoever to demand "his" flag back.
-- I do sometimes give back the flag, being nice and all, also when I feel Im more useful attacking.
However I NEVER, _NEVER_ give the flag back when someone demands it.
I think demanding it is among the top stupid things you can do on a pub, and I punish it ;)
So, what's other people's take on this?
Am I right, am I wrong?
-
If someone died near the base and the flag is returned soon, I will try to give it back so he can finish off for the score. Otherwise, if I have to hold the flag for some time and defend it while the base is swarmed, I'll keep it. Honestly, it's probably better to not "be nice" so to speak and risk throwing the flag -- I know I've had a couple of times where an enemy swooped in because the target was too slow to grab the flag toss and returned it. Then again, I don't mind giving away flags to new players or people I think saved me from being killed before returning to base. It's not a big deal to me.
You're right, though. Whining "My flag!!!" type players don't deserve it, even though that harms your team by having to use two people to hold the flag then... the flag carrier and the whiner who won't go away and try to return. There's one person I won't mention I have in mind seeing this topic, but he has improved somewhat I think. As much as it stinks to have to do it, some people need to have this concept explained to them.
-
That sounds annoying. I don't really run into it, because I usually throw the flag anyway, but I see it happen sometimes.
They should just be happy that someone scored.
-
A score is a score. I don't really care for a cap, but I try to anyway. If someone dies with the flag I'll go to home and wait to see if they want it. If not it's my point. Soldat CTF or INF is a team game. And like team games someone must be willing to make a sacrifice.
-
CTF is a team effort. There is no I in team. Or a "my" for that mater.
-
Perhaps then, points shouldn't be awarded upon a flag capture? This would really help the team play aspect in my opinion, since capping doesn't really count for *your* score, but for the team's score.
-
CTF is a team effort. There is no I in team. Or a "my" for that mater.
Roughly last year, I once played on a pub. featuring ctf_Dropdown, where my team's FC died halfway back. I picked it up and completed it, and he started swearing at me like heck demanding for the flag.
A bit later I grabbed the flag, the enemy did as well, and as small as ctf_Dropdown may be, a flag-stalemate ensued. He was still yelling at me all the time and ignored the other annoyed teammates' demands to stop, so I finally said "Fine, you want the flag? Here you go" and just gave it to him. (I still think the flag-discard function needs to be improved)
After the opposing team scored a point, he swore even more at me and was ultimately kicked. :P
I'm with Geo'. If I die right before I'm about to cap from some crazy rusher or a lucky Barret shot (which has happened to me in the past, yes), I don't care if another teammate completes the cap at all, and in fact would rather have that than risk trying to wait through spawning time and retrieve it myself.
-
there really is no reason to post something like this. Of course there's no way for him to MAKE u give him the flag (except to TK u which probrbaly isn't possible). He is merely asking for his flag back and of course u don't have to do it. Generally when someone brings the flag and does a hell of a job doing so and dies and i get the flag, I generally give it back especially if asked for. Same thing happens when I "do all the work" to get the flag and i die. It's just a manner of sharing among your team.
Either you give it back and are nice, or you cap and are a jerk in many people's eyes - it's up to you.
And after all, he DID do most of the work - u did SOME of the work by protecting it against one person and fate let you end up with it in the end...
-
I agree with what seems to be the majority here: If you lose the flag, you lose the flag. If a teammate is close enough to capture and possibly score a point in what otherwise may have resulted in a point for the opponent, that teammate deserves it, not the person who had the flag first. It is childish to argue over a flag anyway, I mean it gives you little more than 20 points, and those points are considered nothing by the majority of the community. I for one don't care if someone captures "my" flag after I drop it, and really, I'd rather not have it back; I seem to suck once a flag touches me and I am back home, for some reason.
In short, if you think it is your flag, go play Pointmatch. We need more players in Pointmatch! Otherwise, stick to letting a friendly have "your" flag more often. (The your's and my's were not directed at anyone in particular, unless you whine about "your" flag all the time.)
-
If you're trying to get a personal score play free for all game modes. If your playin ctf, then you shouldn't be worried about who's getting the points, it's the team that matters.
-
It doesn't matter who caps, capping is team effort. If you try to claim it's not team effort, you have no right to say "that was my flag!" if you die and someone else caps. That's because then you weren't good enough.
I think it's dumb to care about who caps.
-
Why the hell do they care
-
"If you lose it, it ain't yours" is my opinion on flags.
Should I do a teamkill (Nade, shot, forced towards enemy with nades/spray) on the ffc I will give the flag back since it WAS my fault, after all. If I die with flag I don't care WHO caps it just as long as it's capped.
-
I give it back to the original owner if time permits.
-
All depends on the situation. If my team is winning I'll usually throw it to the original grabber or holder. If not, I gotta make sure we're gonna score.
-
CTF is a team effort. There is no I in team. Or a "my" for that mater.
There is in win!
You keep the flag, It is more efficient than to waste time giving it away.
-
Only stat whores would cuss out teammates for a flag. Don't be a stat whore.
-
I think i'm gonna go with the majority here- if you lose the flag and someone else picks it up then it's their's, just accept it.
Hell you should be thankful, I've been killed loads of times when no-one else was around and the flag was returned. And it sucks.
-
Sorry Bulbock, but I think it's the reverse situation, in a Pub anyway. A player goes into a base, with no backup (it's a pub), mows down a bunch of people, gets the flag, and gets back to base wounded, just to get hit by a stray bullet and dies, I think the flag is entierly his right. If I picked it up I would give it back.
Of cource, in a Clan or Privet server, I think that if a flag carrier manages to die, even with a squad of people around him, then the flag goes to whoever picks it up.
-
Never expirienced this, but I do like to share the flag out sometimes. Someone posted before about "If I feel I'm more useful attacking, I pass the flag to a teammate". I usually find I'm much better at attacking and I'm proud of my scores if I haven't capped. So, if I grab the flag...I run back to my base, toss it blindly into the spawnpoint, and go back and try and hold off the oncoming enemies. I don't care for caps, just as long as somebody does it!
And, if I ever have someone like this in any game I play, I'm sure everyones gonna shoot him down (no pun intended).
-
CTF is a team effort. There is no I in team. Or a "my" for that mater.
There's a "me".
Anyway, I think "my flag" whiners are being very foolish. CTF and INF are team games; individual scores shouldn't matter. I hate sitting in the base with the flag, so I'll yell "Next spawn gets flag", toss it, then attack again. If a player asks for the flag, I'll give it to him, since I'm better at attacking than defending, especially if I have low HP from my escape.
Like I said, I don't think someone has any right to say they "deserve" a cap. However, I don't have a problem letting them get one.
-
In my opinion, the one that does the work should be the one that gets the cap - the most work, that is.
If the entire team rushes in, helps out, and manages to get the flag, let anyone cap.
If everyone dies, but one player dodges, kills, and retrieves with deft skill, only to get hit by a stray bullet inches from scoring, don't be a jackass.
-
I think that crying, because its "your" Flag is completely akward... Its a Teambased Game, right? So you should do whatever is best for the team. Of course it might piss you off, but come on....
-
I think that crying, because its "your" Flag is completely akward... Its a Teambased Game, right? So you should do whatever is best for the team. Of course it might piss you off, but come on....
It is a team-based game, but individual scores are still listed, and most people I know would appreciate being able to see their work rewarded.
-
In my opinion, the one that does the work should be the one that gets the cap - the most work, that is.
If the entire team rushes in, helps out, and manages to get the flag, let anyone cap.
If everyone dies, but one player dodges, kills, and retrieves with deft skill, only to get hit by a stray bullet inches from scoring, don't be a jackass.
This might be reasonable, except that transferring a pursued flag carries a huge amount of risk, especially if the players haven't practiced the maneuver. I've seen so many well-meaning people throw a flag, intending that the original grabber take it, and then as the flag bounces around, the enemy flag chasers catch up, kill everyone, and return the flag.
IMO, there shouldn't be a personal bonus for capping. It gives people the wrong sense of priorities in CTF. When I cap, my satisfaction is all about seeing the team score increase. And I'd rather just see my killcount on the scoreboard, anyway.
-
IMO i prefer not to cap, id rather protect and clear bases, then i can show them that my 30 some point score is all kills ;D
-
T-Bone I've never seen you cap :P. Capping is good, but only for your team. So what if it gives you points? You don't win. The team does. Fortunatly not to many people I see complain about losing the flag. If I die with it I'll say something like "argh" or "Grrr", but I don't complain about loosing the cap.
-
Sorry Bulbock, but I think it's the reverse situation, in a Pub anyway. A player goes into a base, with no backup (it's a pub), mows down a bunch of people, gets the flag, and gets back to base wounded, just to get hit by a stray bullet and dies, I think the flag is entierly his right. If I picked it up I would give it back.
If you view pubs being one man effort like that, it still means he wasn't good enough alone since he died. If no one picks that flag up, the opponents are going to return it. If someone picks it up, the guy who got it in the first place should have no right to claim it's his. And yeah, it's stupid to care about who caps.
-
It all depends on the situation. I usually give the flag back to the rightful owner if I can. But if I'm being bum-rushed by a horde of blue or something. I'm not going to take the time to give the flag back. But if there's time, and no enemies around, I'll try to toss him the flag if he's there.
-
I just ignore the people most of the time. I have never had someone annoy me too much, if they do I will just go to the enemy base and /kill and say to blame it on the kid that wanted the flag so much.
-
I'm an avid scorer in red for inf, so when some1 gets my flag I usually say "gj team", and when some1 drops it right in front of me and i score for them i say thanks, so when people complain i am thinking "What, you would rather lose than not get the few personal points, jeez selfish b****d"
-
I'm an avid scorer in red for inf, so when some1 gets my flag I usually say "gj team", and when some1 drops it right in front of me and i score for them i say thanks, so when people complain i am thinking "What, you would rather lose than not get the few personal points, jeez selfish b****d"
That's exactly it. If I lose the flag, I want my team to retrieve it before it's returned. I'll only really be disgusted when I see a teammate seemingly oblivious to the loose flag, ignoring team messages for support, etc. I play to win, and I don't mind coughing up deaths and flags to protect the team and help us score.
-
I don't care if he lost flag half a mile from score place or few steps from score....he had it, he was responsible for safe return with teammates help...he died, so he failed..so if i cap the flag after he dies I am responsible for it.. so i score because points are for WHOLE TEAM..not just for him...and if he starts screaming that it was his flag..i simply say: enemy killed you..so you lost it..and then i ignore all other his cries.
If by accident i would kill him, or another teammate would kill him, i would maybe return it to him...if he asks
-
Well, that's a nice topic, ;)
I'd always been thinking of it. :P
Anyway, when I'm the "flagger" which ran away from the enemy base and doing "all the work" and suddenly dies while another teammate takes the flag, first of all I'm proud my team that the flag was kept.
From time to time I'm just saying "hay, that's my cap :(" but it's just as kidding and nothing more than that. ::)
It's just like when I'm about to kill someone with ruger for ex. and then someone is coming with an autogun and kills him while he has to shot him only one shot, on those situations I also say " thief " or " Hay, he was mine! " but that's also as kidding. ;D
That's how I see it anyhow, and I think that most of the soldat community think this way ( I hope at least ) and none is realy getting angry about "stealing kills \ caps" since points are realy nothing special or important, the most important thing is the good work and ENJOYING the game :)
Peace, Buggy.
-
People that demand "My Flag" are stupid. A.) They are in a pub, where winning the game or capping the flag, lets face it, doesn't matter at ALL, especially if someone just tosses it to you as your flag spawns. b.) In clans, this would never happen, because 1 guy gets the flag, and the rest, being smart, either stick with him or go attack; arguing takes time.
-
yep i never give it back either...though it is annoying when your millimetres from capping and get hit by some stray barret bullet only to some guy called "Major(5)" cap...