Author Topic: TW Map Discussion  (Read 2628 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The Specialist

  • Guest
TW Map Discussion
« on: April 30, 2008, 08:34:38 pm »
EnEsCe's server or any TW server could use some new, fresh, and original TW style maps.  Not only me, but any other mapper could use some new ideas for any future TW map that they may create.

If you play TW on a regular basis and can give a few pointers and what would spice up gameplay at the servers or want something new with maps, give us some suggestions and we'll see what we can do with it.

Offline Iq Unlimited

  • Flagrunner
  • ****
  • Posts: 864
  • mr. foobar2000
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2008, 10:00:04 pm »
Anything modeled after tw_Verdun, with a lower place you can go, is fine with me, because it's the only map that has that lower route and eC TW doesn't use it.

Offline BombSki

  • Flagrunner
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
    • Climbing-soldiers.net
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2008, 08:26:24 am »
there are so many good TW maps that arent on any/most servers.

Offline Deadeye Rob

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2008, 04:28:47 pm »
I am totally useless at map-making, probably because i cannot grasp even the basics of the editor software!

However i play Trenchwar most of the time and i find that, although most to the maps are good fun, no-one has made a 'real' Trench War map at all.

Avarax once said when he released his TW maps that he wanted to re-create battlefields from world war 1.

Yet that has not been attempted. A true ww1 trench battle should have 2 large trenches, crater filled no-mans-land. and heavy station guns pointed at each others trenches.

Simple but i could be rather fun!

Offline Pyroguy

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
  • Torch it.
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2008, 09:45:38 pm »
The most successful areas in TW are the big indoor bunkers, which act as choke points. Then you have areas that are either a screen or berret range in length, and either another bunker or a large blocker of some kind (windmills, crest of a steep hill, big trees, whatever). So many TW maps don't start out with this basic rule of thumb, and most get boring because of it.

Then you need to include some fighting positions. Outdoor areas, of course you have trenches; but make sure to put height differences, so teammates can occupy three or four bunkers and not block each other's line of fire.

Indoor fighting; they should usually have a good vantage point up top for snipers to use, as well as the main entrance, and a few windows if you like. "Bullet Proof" windows using only player collide and only bullet collide polies layed on top can be cool for realistic mode. And even having entrances on two levels is fun, as long as outdoors stays linear.

Ultimately I think a new TW script that moves the battle from bunker to bunker would spice up TW the most, and allow for maps that are just that little bit longer and more fun. Having them sort of be one way, perhaps miniature games of infiltration might be a neat thing to try as well, instead of the general CTF way of doing it.

Offline Boblekonvolutt

  • Soldier
  • **
  • Posts: 222
  • "YOU are a CAR."
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2008, 04:06:28 pm »
Ultimately I think a new TW script that moves the battle from bunker to bunker would spice up TW the most
Like TTW...

TW is fine the way it is, and unlike you I don't want more sniper spray...

Offline Platypus

  • Major(1)
  • Posts: 1
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2008, 05:03:42 pm »
Eh TW is gettin stupid...all that everyone says is: 1)Noob, 2)Hacker, 3)Ns, 4) Ty...
Thats all...boring

Offline fishfood

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2008, 04:50:16 pm »
I want a jungle map that's TW...like Vietnam or something.  With hidey spots.

Offline TheV

  • Soldier
  • **
  • Posts: 236
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2008, 05:39:33 pm »
Lawl dude your inluck.

My map is almost complete and its IN THE JUNGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=]

Offline Mastadi

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
  • What makes me a good demoman!?
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2008, 06:39:48 am »
I've got a cool idea for a map... mixing TW and CS, something like normal TW map, but bunkers are much bigger and complex... What do you think? :)

Offline Peu

  • Soldier
  • **
  • Posts: 117
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2008, 05:29:14 pm »
Eh TW is gettin stupid...all that everyone says is: 1)Noob, 2)Hacker, 3)Ns, 4) Ty...
Thats all...boring
I agree, but that's not a tw feature, that's a competition and ego feature

Anyway, I have noted thusly:

-Wide plains invite snipers

-towers invite snipers. If a tower exists, it should be a vulnerable spot

-allowing shots to one sniper spot to another invites snipers. If allowed for, why don't you just go ahead and place a red dot where people should aim to hit the other spot, that way, they won't spend their timing missing each other (the poor snipers) and will either die, or shoot other people.

-ANYTHING to prevent people from saying "so you wanna snipe, eh?"

-sniper vantage points should be blocked with anything (a collider tree, for example). There should be no real point where a sniper can sit and spray a convenient entrance/exit

-there can be no alternative path past a major bunker, otherwise teams have to split and designate defense, which removes from the front line clash

-make away with glitchable spots

-some health spots shouldn't be completely safe, people should look around nervously unless their team has forward positions (at mapper's balancing discretion)

-some health spots need high roofs to prevent memorized law shots (at mapper's balancing discretion)

-note spray angles and weapon spray archs. It's no fun when the only path people can take is a tunnel where enemy can sit and spray and prevent any retaliation

-spray balance can be played with using obstacles. An aug may be useless over a hill because it is too powerful, whereas an mp5 or pistol would be good

-likely spray spots should be made available to sniper bullets. likely sniping spots should be made available to lower arching weapons. A slight hill in between sniper and another would prevent sniper from hitting this person, but allow retaliation

-a central bowl like Myst enforces sniping unless there is also a mediating central barrier

-annoying obstacles that serve no tactical purpose but slow down running are *annoying* like the door entrances in Village

-I played a map on the DO server a couple of days ago with facing buildings that was pretty damn cool. though not yet perfectly balanced, it could make for cool firefights and *finally* the necessity of different types of tactical offense

-thicker walls dissuade laws, thinner ones invite them

-hiding spots are important if implemented carefully. A hiding spot that is very good can be balanced with making escape from it difficult

-low grass where people can prone-drag themselves across the floor undetected are fun. Making patches of visibility in those grasses is more fun. People should have to work for their concealment

-climbable buildings are a plus, with jump ramps or with ledges (preferably ramps)

-a cool feature in gloryhill is that in the first bunker, one the exit door there is a little triangle on the floor. A backflip off of that allows the player to jump to the roof's corner

-excessive secret entrances only differentiate between a player who knows the map, and a player who doesn't, not skill. If a secret entrance exists, it might be blocked by a door, so players don't continuously use them to shoot people in the face without revealing themselves

-a little hole in the wall where player has to crouch to hide would be cool, especially if it didn't lead anywhere

-aesthetics and theme are important to make players like map. It's tried and true that bright, white maps strain the eyes, if you want snow, maybe make it grey. Brown tones seem to be most appealing and easygoing, greens are also nice

-maps don't need to be physically symmetrical, only tactically symmetrical

-obvious features are fun. a spot made to be used for ricochet is a good idea if it is a balanced feature

-nade spawns should be placed carefully. It's not very fun when everyone is suddenly only throwing nades because they are concentrated in one spot (not sure if its possible to prevent that with the nade box spawn cycle as it is)

-variable scenery theme helps is nice for telling distances, and gives a nice sense of progress in either direction. (desert to the left, forest to the right)


If you play any Valve games like TF2, you'll notice that they take very good care to balance these maps. A potential sniper shot is often impeded with a barrier, or allowed only a slit to shot through, etc, etc. they balance every character's attributes within the map, even the holes in the ground are made to accommodate the scout's jumping ability while preventing others from doing it. Maps that take such care get bonus points.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2008, 05:34:28 pm by Peu »

Offline BombSki

  • Flagrunner
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
    • Climbing-soldiers.net
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2008, 08:54:49 am »
i agree with most of it, but you have some sniperphobia? just play ttw and youll only have 1 sniper in each team :) oh, and only 1-2 laws :)

Offline Peu

  • Soldier
  • **
  • Posts: 117
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2008, 10:07:20 am »
Not at all sniperphobia. I love killing snipers. I have team-stagnation-phobia. People tend to fall into the sniper pattern in a futile attempt to stay alive, weakening the team. They camp, forgetting to advance when it is appropriate and this feeds a cycle. They think that because the team advanced and died, they are serving a good purpose as an anchor where they are, while really, the team died because it didn't have a full company.

Anyway, in ttw people can just go ahead and pick up a sniper from the ground, I've done it. Also, Which points don't you agree with? I'd like to see alternatives and other ideas.

Offline BombSki

  • Flagrunner
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
    • Climbing-soldiers.net
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2008, 02:36:52 pm »
i just dont agree with the anti-sniper stuff. if youre gonna make a map there will be huge colliding trees every 10cm :P
snipers are part of tw, and in tw they suck, but in ttw people prefer other ranks anyway, unless its 4on4 or more..

anyway you are just describing a perfect map (apart from the sniper part maybe) where each weapon and team is perfectly balanced.. such a map would be very hard to make ^_^ i dont think theres any map like this

Offline Peu

  • Soldier
  • **
  • Posts: 117
Re: TW Map Discussion
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2008, 02:54:49 pm »
I never said a collider tree every 10cm. Why would you assume this when all I spoke about was balance? How can you disagree that open fields invite snipers? Or that a collider tree would detain them? How these things are used is up to the mapper, but the concepts are true.

wasn't the point of the thread to describe the attributes of a perfect map? Attainable or not.