Pie's Tw map- help needed(Screenshots attached)

[El_Spec]

Tested it as well.  It was much better than I expected. 

First thing that came to me was that the stat gun at the left of the pit is pretty much useless.  The only range is has is the lower part extending below the bridge.  I still really think you need to adjust the height of the pit, make it something like half a screen high.  I can already sense that players are going to complain about it.

The village part of the map is really prone to serious spray, since the both ends of the valley are equal in height.  I suggest you make the right side higher and it'll give a height advantage.  I agree with BlackSheepBoy that the tunnel to the left side is useless.

Shading had a good start, add some additional to the inside of the buildings.  Scenery needs a lot of work though.  Later, change the building background from blank.bmp to blankfade.png, check tw_Moats for good reference.

Lastly, I don't feel it'll play well as a TW map, Infiltration or Tactical CS seems better.  But it has potential and I'd like to see it fully complete.

[Blacksheepboy]

Nah, I am annoyed that people have this awful stereotypical view of Trench Wars. I know that it specifies Trench in the name, but why can't there be a few minor path changes. In a normal, conventional Capture the Flag, there are multiple paths, and it usually doesn't follow any sort of realistic pattern (there are exceptions). If this map wasn't considered a TW map, then surely it could not be considered a normal Capture the Flag map, since it does not resemble that of one. Therefore I see no harm in putting it under the title of Trench War.

Yes, it is unconventional, but why not have a few irregular TW maps just to throw in a slight change of style, and a break from the normal straight-and-flat TW maps. It's a bit of fresh air if you ask me.

(^This^ really didn't have much to do with what people have commented...it's just a strong opinion I have , and no, I wasn't bashing El_Spec's comment because his comment was perfectly legitimate...)

Anyway, commenting on the fact that scenery needs work... er:

...little to no scenery has been added...

I'm assuming that the backgrounds you have for the buildings are just place-holders? Otherwise yes, they need to be reworked..

[El_Spec]

Well, that's just me.  No doubt that it isn't original for a TW map, but I don't feel it'll play as one.  Actually, it may work.  I don't know, haven't had thoroughly testing, but I'll see.

[Hair|Trigger]

lol I thought the blue and red things were waterfalls   water and lava xD

anyway im about to give it a try.  I will post when finished

Date Posted: July 13, 2008, 07:52:46 amwell its better than I thought

I dont know much about mapping so I will keep my summary short and sweet

The bunkers are okay, but you will need some pretty nifty scenery to go with them.  It's not that of a "realistic" trenchwars map but the bunkers are pretty good..

The tunnels are perfectly okay.  Just dont add to many more

It's quite neat but you could do with something that advances it a little bit.  It's missing it's main trenchwars formula.  It's just so easy to get from one end to another, and some parts of the bunkers are totally useless.  They need more value as strategic positions not just walls you can shoot from.  Work on that (maybe re-build some bunkers)

Also you will need good scenery for the town.  It could also use some 3 dimensional value, but thats up to you.

So yeah just work on how complicated you want the map.  at this stage it isn't very original.

(Also remember both sides of the map are climb-able.  Work on how you would stop people from getting out)

[Pie]

Thanks for the input guys.

Firstly, the tunnel on the right is useless, i'll admit, It's not helpful and it'll probably be removed, but I don't understand the problems with the other tunnels, I may seem a little optimistic, but if this map does make it to ec's servers, or any servers with an airstrike or something, then they are pretty much the only cover.

The bridge will be made lower and the stat will be removed.

The right hill will be raised to stop sniper spray into the village and more fox holes will be added for cover.

The city on the left, i'll remove some of the bunkers and make it more practical, 1 story houses and such.

The bridge isn't done, there will be colliders and boxes on it to stop spray and allow cover.

The edges of the map are fine, the finished map will not have jets at all, and the edges are tall enough, or in the left hand sides case, deadly or hurting to prevent players from running that way.

The issue with the bunkers on the city will be fixed, i'll cut it back to two or three.

hopefully that will fix any problems...

[Hair|Trigger]

They can easily skip their way over the wall and skip over the short distance with minimal damage...  what I think you should do is make it a city gate kind of thing with a guard tower.  But it's un-passable and has death polys behind, just in case

Also the right side cliff needs to be raised because I can easily use the roof on the hut to canonball over it..

[Pie]

El_Spec may be taking over this project, I've lost motivation to do this. Either, he's taking it over or it's not going to happen.

Sorry. I might change my mind, but so far i've decided to not continue.

[Blacksheepboy]

El_Spec may be taking over this project, I've lost motivation to do this. Either, he's taking it over or it's not going to happen.

Sorry. I might change my mind, but so far i've decided to not continue.

Well, sounds just like me .

Oh well, it was a nice idea. I'd have a go at it since you have most of the basic polystructure down, but I have different shading techniques so it would be harder to mimic your work... Hm.

I could sort of tell by your posts that you were getting a little less motivated each time, and the town seemed to be more rushed than anything, although it still wasn't too bad.

[Pie]

There's no need to copy my layout, if you want to continue this, then do it your way.I have no plans to stand up and attempt to do this again on my own, if it's going to be continued, I want it to be done well by someone else

Goodluck I guess

[El_Spec]

Yezzir, I'm taking over this.  Will re-make it from scratch.

[Blacksheepboy]

Remake it from scratch? It really isn't much of a redo then, is it. It would be more like a revision

[volfae]

Well Pie... I tried out the map and everything and for the way you're wanting it to go it seems pretty well done. It's going to be Sniper Heaven with the amount of foilage and such but I think spray will balance it.

The only real problem is that if you're planning on making this a dom-based map, you can't really have it both ways. Players are either going to have to transfer over to a neo-TW style of dom play or stay with the traditional CTF.

I personally like it because it makes it more of a team effort taking out flags so it isn't as much point-based. But convincing the TW players to change this much is pushy. 

But overall, I hope to see it take off. The only thing I'd like to see different would be buildings with more floors and windows. Say 5 story buildings (not just mid) with windows on each floor, some could be closed. I haven't seen it done (besides in Anoxi), but Anoxi was just mid.  Thin tall buildings would be fun, just add more trenches and fox tunnels and it would even out. But that's just a fantasy. >.>

[Peu]

agreed with high buildings. I think a domination based map needs easily defendable home bases so spawnkilling is minimized. Also, since it will no longer be ctf, I think you can take a little more liberty in making multiple paths as long as there are appropriate choke points, and the alt. paths have flaws, like vulnerability: no cover, lower terrain, grenade funnels (not just hard to travel through, because that always becomes easy when people get used to map)