A question for the atheists

[smiluu]

This wouldn't be a discussion if we all would agree with everyone.

[DarkCrusade]

You can discuss like a mature man or you can be as childish as Demoniac and say everyone is ignorant, whining, bitching, not to be taken serious and dumb.

[demoniac93]

This is your problem, you have sought 'your own facts' not THE facts. Instead of looking for truth you have looked only for whatever justification you could find for what you already believed.

Like I said before: You are pre-disposed to a system of belief that you have known all your life and are unable to detach yourself from it in the slightest to consider any other possibility. You are looking for your own 'truth', not a universal truth.

You are a slave and all religions enslave people. Enslavement of the mind. Believe this or you will be punished eternally. All those who do not cannot be trusted. Isn't that what your Bible says? Kill the unbelievers so that there is nobody left who does not believe. Isn't that what your Bible says? Knowledge is sinful. Isn't that what your Bible says?

Come on, eateth the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Well guess what, when Newton first started studying why objects fall to the ground, and when Galileo began work on his telescope to see things beyond the clear blue sky of the day, they were both seeking their own truth as well. Don't think that at that point in time anyone thinks about helping humanity become more advanced to face the coming centuries; It's because they were looking for the one answer the their biggest question. My answer is this: God exists, and we cannot even begin to fathom God, because you can't fit an entire sea into a tiny hole. If we understood God, he would no longer be God. Something atheists never cease to amaze me at is how stubborn they are themselves, never seeming to be able to let people live their lives the way they want to.
And as you again failed to notice, I have more than once doubted my beliefs, and tried to prove myself wrong, just to shut my ego up, and I simply couldn't.

So, what? You pity me? Is that it? I believe that God put a free will in every human being, so if I were a slave my pride would have by now rejected it, and my free will would have commanded me to go and live a fruitless life, doing nobody any favors except for myself.

Once you learn to appreciate that fact, you can come here and talk to me about slavery. Because you are a slave to logic, statistics, your own senses. The way I see it, you're the one who needs help, not me.

So thanks again for the sympathy, but I'm not the one who should be receiving it.

One reason why it makes no sense to continue this "debate" is that Demoniac just claims every point against his opinion to be stupid, unserious and wrong.

If I didn't see anything serious in this "debate" then I wouldn't remain a part of it, would I now?

Not all Athiests argue about God. Thats pure ignorance to say that. As an Athiest I like to have, sometimes heated, discussions with people about God and religion in general but thats akk they are. Discussions. I would never try to force my beliefs upon people, that would be sinking down to the level the catholic church was at awhile ago.

One thing though. I don't believe this life is all there is. There is something after, I'm just not sure what yet.

Did I ask whether ALL atheists argue about God? No, I didn't. I asked why atheists [There's no defining article, which means any percentage of atheists. Next time, try to be more attentive when reading something].
Also, by trying to act "above", you just fell to an even lower level than whatever low level you claim the church/Christianity to be at.
You're welcome.

"Become free by turning yourself into gods slaves" written in the jewish bible D:
There was a demotivator poster made about this...

This is a serious discussion, if all you have to participate with in this conversation is lame jokes, then I'll respectfully ask you to get your jokes out of here, and go play a smart cookie somewhere else.

You mad? Did I said something that made you mad or something?
It's just that I don't see any lame jokes except facts in here, maybe thats why you got mad..

And go on batman, it's still you versus other forumers..
Did you ask a (simple)question or are you trying to prove something related to religions/god? especially over the internet?

What facts? Where in the Torah does it say that you have to "Become God's slaves" in order to "Be free"? Huh?
Sometimes, I am honestly amazed by the psychic powers people like you posses. I'll never figure out how your species can pick up emotion through cyberspace. O_O

Actually, the only thing I'm trying to prove, is that these "Poor little religious freaks" don't need any pity or sympathy, we can make our own choices and still enjoy life more than many of you "Free" people. And it's not Batman, it's Demoniac.

You can discuss like a mature man or you can be as childish as Demoniac and say everyone is ignorant, whining, b***hing, not to be taken serious and dumb.

Thank you for stating the exact same opinion three times in a row. You should know that posts in the lounge don't increase your post count, sir. Time to move on.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Did I ask whether ALL atheists argue about God? No, I didn't. I asked why atheists [There's no defining article, which means any percentage of atheists. Next time, try to be more attentive when reading something].

Actually, when you don't use a defining article, the percentage is generally understood to be 100%.

You'd correct me if I said "humans are atheists," wouldn't you?

[demoniac93]

Did I ask whether ALL atheists argue about God? No, I didn't. I asked why atheists [There's no defining article, which means any percentage of atheists. Next time, try to be more attentive when reading something].

Actually, when you don't use a defining article, the percentage is generally understood to be 100%.

You'd correct me if I said "humans are atheists," wouldn't you?

OK, it seems I made a mistake, and I apologize for it. My bad.
I'll try to act with integrity and correct my question ion the OP.
You will have to excuse my lack of attention.

[pavliko]

What facts? Where in the Torah does it say that you have to "Become God's slaves" in order to "Be free"? Huh?
Sometimes, I am honestly amazed by the psychic powers people like you posses. I'll never figure out how your species can pick up emotion through cyberspace. O_O

Actually, the only thing I'm trying to prove, is that these "Poor little religious freaks" don't need any pity or sympathy, we can make our own choices and still enjoy life more than many of you "Free" people. And it's not Batman, it's Demoniac.

First of all I'm not going to search for it for you. Secondly, I don't posses such fantasy books anymore because I had enough of 'trying to figure out' why people like such nonesence. I have my answer already..
Also, this is only one religion we are talking about, I can add much more of this stuff about others...

And now excuse me, "people and species like me" will probably leave such ignorant people like you alone to be mind washed and live in their illusions.

I kept thinking are you just trollin' ? Because as a user who has a warning to start a major thread like this, it looks like a troll attempt.

Or you are just egotist...

Because you are trully ignorant and have lack of knowlage...

[Mangled*]

Well guess what, when Newton first started studying why objects fall to the ground, and when Galileo began work on his telescope to see things beyond the clear blue sky of the day, they were both seeking their own truth as well. Don't think that at that point in time anyone thinks about helping humanity become more advanced to face the coming centuries; It's because they were looking for the one answer the their biggest question. My answer is this: God exists, and we cannot even begin to fathom God, because you can't fit an entire sea into a tiny hole. If we understood God, he would no longer be God. Something atheists never cease to amaze me at is how stubborn they are themselves, never seeming to be able to let people live their lives the way they want to.
And as you again failed to notice, I have more than once doubted my beliefs, and tried to prove myself wrong, just to shut my ego up, and I simply couldn't.

So, what? You pity me? Is that it? I believe that God put a free will in every human being, so if I were a slave my pride would have by now rejected it, and my free will would have commanded me to go and live a fruitless life, doing nobody any favors except for myself.

Once you learn to appreciate that fact, you can come here and talk to me about slavery. Because you are a slave to logic, statistics, your own senses. The way I see it, you're the one who needs help, not me.

So thanks again for the sympathy, but I'm not the one who should be receiving it.

It's SO painfully ironic that you reference scientists such as Newton and Galileo. Given that you believe faith over science and that all science that disagrees with your beliefs is flawed. Also, they weren't 'seeking their own truth' they were being objective and looking at evidence.

Should I remind you for the second time that Galileo was imprisoned for life because of his understandings and teaching people about the truth that went against the Catholic belief? Oh yes, I seem to remember that you thought that was fine because at least they didn't execute him. Well all is good then.

Yes, I pity you, you're brainwashed. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You have no understanding of basic scientific principals or the importance of objectivity. All you know is that God is the best thing ever and everything else is stupid. Oh boy, they got you good didn't they? I bet you even put money in the collection plate. Slave.

[demoniac93]

What facts? Where in the Torah does it say that you have to "Become God's slaves" in order to "Be free"? Huh?
Sometimes, I am honestly amazed by the psychic powers people like you posses. I'll never figure out how your species can pick up emotion through cyberspace. O_O

Actually, the only thing I'm trying to prove, is that these "Poor little religious freaks" don't need any pity or sympathy, we can make our own choices and still enjoy life more than many of you "Free" people. And it's not Batman, it's Demoniac.

First of all I'm not going to search for it for you. Secondly, I don't posses such fantasy books anymore because I had enough of 'trying to figure out' why people like such nonesence. I have my answer already..
Also, this is only one religion we are talking about, I can add much more of this stuff about others...

And now excuse me, "people and species like me" will probably leave such ignorant people like you alone to be mind washed and live in their illusions.

I kept thinking are you just trollin' ? Because as a user who has a warning to start a major thread like this, it looks like a troll attempt.

Or you are just egotist...

Because you are trully ignorant and have lack of knowlage...

"I'm not going to search for it for you".
So in other words, you can't back it up.
Thanks. At least I have enough knowledge to make use of the spell-check function when I mess up as badly as you do.

Well guess what, when Newton first started studying why objects fall to the ground, and when Galileo began work on his telescope to see things beyond the clear blue sky of the day, they were both seeking their own truth as well. Don't think that at that point in time anyone thinks about helping humanity become more advanced to face the coming centuries; It's because they were looking for the one answer the their biggest question. My answer is this: God exists, and we cannot even begin to fathom God, because you can't fit an entire sea into a tiny hole. If we understood God, he would no longer be God. Something atheists never cease to amaze me at is how stubborn they are themselves, never seeming to be able to let people live their lives the way they want to.
And as you again failed to notice, I have more than once doubted my beliefs, and tried to prove myself wrong, just to shut my ego up, and I simply couldn't.

So, what? You pity me? Is that it? I believe that God put a free will in every human being, so if I were a slave my pride would have by now rejected it, and my free will would have commanded me to go and live a fruitless life, doing nobody any favors except for myself.

Once you learn to appreciate that fact, you can come here and talk to me about slavery. Because you are a slave to logic, statistics, your own senses. The way I see it, you're the one who needs help, not me.

So thanks again for the sympathy, but I'm not the one who should be receiving it.

It's SO painfully ironic that you reference scientists such as Newton and Galileo. Given that you believe faith over science and that all science that disagrees with your beliefs is flawed. Also, they weren't 'seeking their own truth' they were being objective and looking at evidence.

Do you know that during both their times, the basics of scientific research weren't even there? There was no such thing as hard evidence, that's why most of their work is still theories. Also, you might want to stop living in the past, the Catholic church, and the Vatican, are not the same they were half a millennium ago. Even the church is ashamed of certain parts of its past, but they don't deny it.

Should I remind you for the second time that Galileo was imprisoned for life because of his understandings and teaching people about the truth that went against the Catholic belief? Oh yes, I seem to remember that you thought that was fine because at least they didn't execute him. Well all is good then.

Read above. The church isn't the same it was a thousand years ago. The church imprisoned Galileo, and the atomic bomb floored Hiroshima and Nagasaki for decades, and still more decades to come.

Yes, I pity you, you're brainwashed. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You have no understanding of basic scientific principals or the importance of objectivity. All you know is that God is the best thing ever and everything else is stupid. Oh boy, they got you good didn't they? I bet you even put money in the collection plate. Slave.

Stop trying to attack my credibility, and face it: You're screwed, you're even worse off than an extremist or a radical. Just too afraid to admit it. I feel sorry for whatever splinters of pride you still possess.

[croat1gamer]

Bruce Sheiman, because f**k you extremists.

Applicable to almost everyone in this thread.

[pavliko]

"I'm not going to search for it for you".
So in other words, you can't back it up.
Thanks. At least I have enough knowledge to make use of the spell-check function when I mess up as badly as you do.

Read other posts...
Your "knowlage" fails

[demoniac93]

"I'm not going to search for it for you".
So in other words, you can't back it up.
Thanks. At least I have enough knowledge to make use of the spell-check function when I mess up as badly as you do.

Read other posts...
Your "knowlage" fails

YOU fail.
This was nothing but a personal dick measuring for you all along, and not even once were you anywhere near proving your intellectual superiority.
Just let it be, and drop this bullshit before you insult yourself.

[DarkCrusade]

This was nothing but a personal dick measuring for you all along

Like this whole thread

[pavliko]

demoniac93 this whole thread is a troll..
for that you won't get anything except mindf**king(check 90% of posts in this thread)...
And don't you even start lying about this not being a troll attempt...

kthxbye

[Mangled*]

Do you know that during both their times, the basics of scientific research weren't even there? There was no such thing as hard evidence, that's why most of their work is still theories. Also, you might want to stop living in the past, the Catholic church, and the Vatican, are not the same they were half a millennium ago. Even the church is ashamed of certain parts of its past, but they don't deny it.

Stop trying to attack my credibility, and face it: You're screwed, you're even worse off than an extremist or a radical. Just too afraid to admit it. I feel sorry for whatever splinters of pride you still possess.

Well you have no idea what the word 'theory' represents then. Unlike religion, science doesn't have to pretend it has the absolute answer. That's why it's objective and progressive and has literally transformed and liberated society.

I don't need to attack your credibility because you simply don't have any. You were fighting a lost cause since you hit the 'New Topic' button. Your only response to any valid argument against you is to say it's stupid or to ignore it completely. You don't have any counter-arguments. You're just making a fool of yourself really.

As for me,there's nothing very radical about me, I'm just an intelligent person who chooses knowledge over ignorance just as much as I choose love over hate. I don't like religion because it's the biggest lie ever told and I genuinely pity people like you that are completely brainwashed by dogma.

[12th_account]

Here's a question [I hope] is simple enough for this thread:
Why do some atheists argue about God, even though they do not acknowledge his existence? Why waste so much time trying to prove [In vain] that something does NOT exist?

For the same reason anyone argues over the internet - http://xkcd.com/386/

[VijchtiDoodah]

OK, so they want those people to believe that the universe came to be, because some s**t out of nowhere expanded and blew up...

...God is definitely a more "reasonable" explanation to "things" than 90% of any scientific theories I've ever heard...I believe God created the universe, that doesn't mean I don't understand the big bang, and the universe's expansion, and so forth, it simply means that I hold on to my beliefs, and have a strong opinion of my own, backed up by solid evidence that's hit me time and time again, right in the forehead.

Sometimes, my friend, ignorance is bliss, and that's the greatest favor an atheist could do to anyone, let them live in their ignorance, if they truly believe God doesn't exist.

Despite your continued insistence that you understand the Big Bang, I've already explained exactly why you don't understand it.

Despite my explanation about how "reasonableness" and "sanity" are reliable measures of neither the validity of any scientific theory nor any phenomenon, you continue to pretend that they are. Worse still, you do so with a flawed understanding of the scientific theories you so casually dismiss.

And despite the fact that I already explained to you that there are larger stakes than ignorance when it comes to religion, you continue to pretend as if I haven't already explained all of this to you.

Demoniac, I spent time writing replies to many of the questions you posed in this topic, but then I realized that you don't take the time to understand anything. You're like a child more interested in yelling a naive opinion, and the next opinion, and the next, without ever critically considering the opposing points that are brought up. Even more infuriating: you use the same arguments over and over even though they've been previously refuted without any kind of rebuttal from you.

You aren't interested in debate, so please spare us your "I don't bash, I criticize." speech. It's clearly bullshit.

[demoniac93]

demoniac93 this whole thread is a troll..
for that you won't get anything except mindf**king(check 90% of posts in this thread)...
And don't you even start lying about this not being a troll attempt...

kthxbye

If I wanted to troll I'd be over in 4chan or some other internet dump, but the longer I stay here the more clear it becomes that his is just an extended discussion version of 4chan.

Do you know that during both their times, the basics of scientific research weren't even there? There was no such thing as hard evidence, that's why most of their work is still theories. Also, you might want to stop living in the past, the Catholic church, and the Vatican, are not the same they were half a millennium ago. Even the church is ashamed of certain parts of its past, but they don't deny it.

Stop trying to attack my credibility, and face it: You're screwed, you're even worse off than an extremist or a radical. Just too afraid to admit it. I feel sorry for whatever splinters of pride you still possess.

Well you have no idea what the word 'theory' represents then. Unlike religion, science doesn't have to pretend it has the absolute answer. That's why it's objective and progressive and has literally transformed and liberated society.

I don't need to attack your credibility because you simply don't have any. You were fighting a lost cause since you hit the 'New Topic' button. Your only response to any valid argument against you is to say it's stupid or to ignore it completely. You don't have any counter-arguments. You're just making a fool of yourself really.

As for me,there's nothing very radical about me, I'm just an intelligent person who chooses knowledge over ignorance just as much as I choose love over hate. I don't like religion because it's the biggest lie ever told and I genuinely pity people like you that are completely brainwashed by dogma.

What love? You loathe my very being, so you can take all of that shit you said about "freeing" and "helping" people, and shove it where the sun don't shine. All you do again is make things personal, do I really piss you off that much? If I do, then it's your fault, and not mine, that I just tend to disagree because I have a mind of my own. Did I mention that you loathe my existence?

OK, so they want those people to believe that the universe came to be, because some s**t out of nowhere expanded and blew up...

...God is definitely a more "reasonable" explanation to "things" than 90% of any scientific theories I've ever heard...I believe God created the universe, that doesn't mean I don't understand the big bang, and the universe's expansion, and so forth, it simply means that I hold on to my beliefs, and have a strong opinion of my own, backed up by solid evidence that's hit me time and time again, right in the forehead.

Sometimes, my friend, ignorance is bliss, and that's the greatest favor an atheist could do to anyone, let them live in their ignorance, if they truly believe God doesn't exist.

Despite your continued insistence that you understand the Big Bang, I've already explained exactly why you don't understand it.

Despite my explanation about how "reasonableness" and "sanity" are reliable measures of neither the validity of any scientific theory nor any phenomenon, you continue to pretend that they are. Worse still, you do so with a flawed understanding of the scientific theories you so casually dismiss.

And despite the fact that I already explained to you that there are larger stakes than ignorance when it comes to religion, you continue to pretend as if I haven't already explained all of this to you.

Demoniac, I spent time writing replies to many of the questions you posed in this topic, but then I realized that you don't take the time to understand anything. You're like a child more interested in yelling a naive opinion, and the next opinion, and the next, without ever critically considering the opposing points that are brought up. Even more infuriating: you use the same arguments over and over even though they've been previously refuted without any kind of rebuttal from you.

You aren't interested in debate, so please spare us your "I don't bash, I criticize." speech. It's clearly bulls**t.

Well I took my time reading that shit, and you should have known long before you decided to post it that no matter what, you will never change my opinion, and I will never change yours.
Just goes to show how overly zealous you got, and how foolish you were to think that I'd just change my mind because you gave me a couple of paragraphs' worth of food for thought.

[echo_trail]

[...]you should have known long before you decided to post it that no matter what, you will never change my opinion[...]

If there really was a god, he would've banned you now. Thread locked. If anyone feels this isn't a fair deal, feel free to PM me.