non-staggered keyboard

[DorkeyDear]

I have been looking for a while now for a non-staggered keyboard. I have found very few results. I'm wondering if anybody reading this knows of a keyboard which is non-staggered. A few results I have ran into:

TypeMatrix - the best I have found so far.
Kinesis Advantage - second best one I ran into. Split though, but I'm sure one could get used to that.
Maltron Dual Hand Fully Ergonomic Keyboards - looks darn close to the Kinesis
Impecca KBC101B Junior Keyboard - despite being a 'kids keyboard', this is the next best one I found that is closest to what I want. Unfortunately, it looks like the bottom row is offset by 1 key though. I guess some remapping of keys could fix that.
Preh MCI 128 Keyboard - not sure if this is a card reader thingy. need to look more into this.
Mini Bluetooth Keyboard - Not really what I was looking for, but is non-staggered.

I was hoping to run into a simply keyboard that is extremely close to the standard keyboard, but with non-staggered keys. Unfortunately, I have yet to find such a keyboard. The TypeMatrix is great, but they also rearrange other things on the keyboard. I suppose that is okay. Still not sure if I'm willing to spend so much on a keyboard though...

Also, has anybody used the TypeMatrix or Kinesis Advantage before? Some input would be nice to hear if it is worth it or not.

[iDante]

Why do you want a non-staggered keyboard? It seems like the slight benefit to WASD aligning like arrow keys is massively overshot by the awkwardness it creates at typing.

If you have money to spend get a mechanical keyboard I recommend these, but there are plenty of other good ones out there.

[Bonecrusher]

Despite your need of buying non-staggered keyboard I'd recommend checking this one out It's logitech y-sz49 and has been of a great use to me for the past few years.

[DorkeyDear]

iDante: consider your fingers on the home row keys, and trying to press x. I have to move my whole hand to do so. If I don't, my finger feels uncomfortable. This is the worst key for me. Others also have an effect, but lesser.

Bonecrusher: The the primary reason is because of what I said in my response to iDante. Normally I don't type with my hands on the home row, however, I have been using Dvorak keyboard layout more often now. Since the keys on the home row are used considerably more often, I try to follow the 'keep your hands on the home row keys' rule. This is actually is what made me discover the discomfort in the 'x' key ('q' on Dvorak layout). Overall, I still find Dvorak layout much more comfortable than QUERTY. Although a disadvantage I found was how I need to remap many controls on most games since they are wrong. That isn't that big of a deal though. Just requires a change once.

[13th_account]

Would certainly be interesting to try a non-staggered keyboard if one came along that lived up to the quality of a Das Keyboard. Used a DVORAK layout for about a year but the support from most software was just so terrible that I had to switch back. You want the basic functions like Ctrl+A, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+S, Ctrl+W to still be in the same convenient location on the keyboard, but the vast majority of software goes by the ASCII values of the keys you type, so you're likely going to need both hands to do a copy-paste.

[DorkeyDear]

Yeah that is one 'problem', however I started getting used to using my left hand on the right ctrl along with the 'c' 'x' 'b' 'v' 'z' 's' (not 'a' however) keys when using my right hand on the mouse. Another option to help this feel a bit more natural is to use my/your left hand for the mouse, then the right hand with right ctrl+relevant keys would be a bit more natural. On windows, I've been messing with key mappings, and it is also a possibility to remap e.g. lctrl+; to lctrl+z, but i can see that causing complications if done universally.

This topic reminds me of another forum where the discussion diverted to dvorak keyboard layout, as opposed to the original staggered keyboard talk. I seem to find barely anything good about it online. Im surprised how rare anything about such a keyboard is.

[Mangled*]

I don't quite understand your problem with staggered keyboards. Though I don't doubt that the current standard model may not be the best ergonomical solution possible.

It works for me because I'm used to it.

As for non-staggered you'll have a problem finding them because actually a lot of keyboards use the same standard circuitboards inside, despite having different external shells. In order to have a non-staggered keyboard you pretty much need to have a custom circuitboard that allows that configuration to work or a smart custom shell/keys that work with one.

It's not impossible... But I'd say in order to get what you'd want you'd probably actually have to make it yourself.

[Graham]

Why not get a bamboo keyboard and type in class... or flames if it gets too hot.

[DorkeyDear]

Why not get a bamboo keyboard and type in class... or flames if it gets too hot.

Hehe. I actually did run into some strange/artsy/i-cant-picture-myself-ever-using-that types of keyboards, bamboo included. But the reason i want a non-staggered keyboard is not for visual reasons (well, preferably not looking like a piece of garbage ). There was this one site dedicated towards things like that. I would link it but I didn't save the url.

[ginn]

I used to only go with non-staggered keyboards before. However, I tested a mechanical keyboard and it was fine.
The issue with most staggered keyboards is that they use rubber dome switches... which is just horrible.

[DorkeyDear]

Why not get a bamboo keyboard and type in class... or flames if it gets too hot.

I was looking up keyboards and look what I ran into: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823391002

[iDante]

iDante: consider your fingers on the home row keys, and trying to press x. I have to move my whole hand to do so. If I don't, my finger feels uncomfortable. This is the worst key for me. Others also have an effect, but lesser.

I don't understand. I can type x easily without moving my whole hand. Left ring finger naturally goes there. In fact, because I use a split keyboard my finger naturally curls in a little to type x, it would be strange for it to have to go straight down.

Have you tried typing lots on a split keyboard?

[DorkeyDear]

iDante: consider your fingers on the home row keys, and trying to press x. I have to move my whole hand to do so. If I don't, my finger feels uncomfortable. This is the worst key for me. Others also have an effect, but lesser.

I don't understand. I can type x easily without moving my whole hand. Left ring finger naturally goes there. In fact, because I use a split keyboard my finger naturally curls in a little to type x, it would be strange for it to have to go straight down.

Have you tried typing lots on a split keyboard?

No I have not. Unfortunately, I do not know anybody who has any sort of 'different' keyboard (whether split, non-staggered, or whatever), so I cant test out the feel beforehand. I wonder if any stores have any split keyboards on display I can test; I doubt though.

If I rotate a standard keyboard roughly 25 deg CW, I can picture my left hand being more comfortable. However, I tried moving the keyboard roughly 25 deg CCW to see how my right hand is positioned, and the top row is all out of wack; my fingers naturally land in between the keys, heh. This is after rotating the keyboard, looking at one hand at a time.

What is special about a split keyboard? By the look of it (and no research done ) it looks like I can rotate each side of the keyboard as I please until I get some 'special spot' which is more comfortable. Please correct me or add to this if there is more.



Are there other kinds of keyboards which may feel better that you know of or used?



EDIT:
@iDante: Did you mean something more like which image?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/QWERTY_Truly_Egronomic_Keyboard.jpg
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/freestyle.htm

[iDante]

This is what I use right now. What you can see in other pictures is that the center of the keyboard is raised so your hands fall nicely around it. Plus your hands are much farther apart than usual, which is surprisingly nice.

My roommate last year spent a while using my computer when his broke. He said that it was awkward at first but now he hates any keyboard of different design.

[DorkeyDear]

I guess I lost hope in ever finding a solution to this problem of mine; so I'm okay with a bit of diverging on the topic's original, well, topic.


So I ended up buying a keyboard. It is a staggered keyboard, but I am still enjoying it. My main dislike for this keyboard is the backspace button is near the music button, and I do accidentally hit the wrong button sometimes. However I should stop using the backspace button since I already have caplock remapped as backspace.


I do notice myself accidentally typing shift+capslock sometimes (which is mapped to capslock). This happens when I try to use left shift with pressing a key on the left side of the keyboard with my left hand; particularly a vowel like "a" or "o" (remember, dvorak keyboard layout). I guess it is my fault for not 'aiming' quite as well, although my fingers do feel uncomfortable when doing that; it is not quite as natural. Ever since I remapped my backspace, I feel as though I lost a perfectly usable key. I just thought of this morning maybe I should change my capslock map from shift+capslock to simply backspace. I don't think accidental hits of that key are much of an issue.


I thought of something else this morning. With dvorak keyboard layout, you switch hands pretty often (this was on purpose). But when holding shift (either left or right), then any sort of 'proper' way to type changes considerable (you lost a pinky to type with, and your hand is no offset). I noticed that I use my left thumb for the space key, and my right thumb literally does nothing while I type. What if there was a shift key down there for my thumb to use? I don't think I would have that 'crampt close key' issue anymore (the shift + some close key). Although I do notice my right thumb does move around a bit while I type. The button would have to be bigger.

[iDante]

I'd be interested in a shift key near my left thumb since I only use my right for space. My left thumb does nothing while typing.

[DorkeyDear]

I wonder what it takes to make a keyboard. I might have to look that up. Would be fun finding my ideal layout.

EDIT: Ahah searching 'how to create a keyboard' came up with nothing I wanted at all.

EDIT2: Neat http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide

[iDante]

Mechanical keyboards are the best. My friend just got a Das Keyboard and typing on the thing is one of the more wonderful sensations that the tips of my fingers have felt, hence my earlier recommendation.