I don't know if the balance is new but...

[SDFilm]

Not sure if you got my drift, but spraying in clanwars is ment to prevent enemies from passing you alive. And of course it can kill, that's the point of on-screen spraying since it's much more accurate than randomly shooting outside the screen.

Hmm, what's the on-topic issue? Spas or the balance in general?

I'm curious about what you mean by on-screen spraying. Are you saying that simply shooting an auto fast is spraying or do you mean when you shoot over a wide area?

[Demonic]

On screen spraying is when two team members start shooting towards the enemy barely as he hits the edge of the screen, or even before. In this context, spraying is applied to an action where you aim your gun, but you and your teammate both use the same gun to rack up damage, and to take down enemies without any considerable amount of effort put into it.

[5th_account]

If you see those things that I cannot, then tell me how all versions until 1.3 had a balanced spas with 130 damage, 140 speed and 32 in fireinterval? The spas in the exp. isn't really close to such powerful attributes. I cannot recall ever getting a 1 hit kill in any version or getting multis after multis. You see, the current spas does not deal enough damage to be an option for beating more popular guns like autos and M79. Two great hits from close to mid range is survivable, which is crazy. No wonder people still go for autos, you've nerfed the options so much that they're un-lethal in comparison.
The semis are supposed to be better than them, else this game would be unbalanced since autos are just as good, but much easier to hit with due to the rapid fire, high bullet speed and large clips.

This exp. balance's main focus is to minimize the option for spray, M79 overusage and make the guns more enjoyable. Instead of following the standard pattern to nerf everything I decided to boost the alternatives. The idea is to boost and rearrange the attributes where possible to fulfill that purpose. If I were to exclude the spas from that process it'd be relatively underpowered and less fun to use. What you're doing is looking at the guns one at the time, comparing it to how it is now, not how they interact with eachother. It's hard to judge if something is over- or underpowered for that particular balance right away, it's all relative. Someone clever wrote a thread in the old forums asking the beta crew to avoid exactly what you're doing.

And concerning spray, you're just twisting my words. I said that selfbink helped a little bit, but a little bit is only a litte bit! It doesn't effectively alter the firerate or accuracy for experianced players to be a big enough drawback for using them.
Demonic doesn't ignore the spray. If everything is peachy fine then how come he suggested 33% reload increase on all autos? That's an insanely grand change compared to 3% damage and 1% speed increase you're going mad about. But at least he acknowleges the spraying as an issue. It's like you fear change or love your own product too much to let it be corrected. There's been polls and a lot of rational persons think that you've nerfed the guns too much already. Again, it's one of the reasons people prefer autos or 1 hit killers.



To clarify my definition of spray, I say it's several things, such as fireing continously outside the screen in an assumed or unassumed direction of a target, fireing continously with the purpose of preventing foes to advance, approach, attack oneself or using the push effect of a fast fireing gun to maintain a distance between oneself and the foe.

[Bugs Revenge]

Well, you'r beliving so much in your way, which is absolutly ok.
The only thing that's left for me to say to you is good luck

[SDFilm]

The semis are supposed to be better than them, else this game would be unbalanced since autos are just as good, but much easier to hit with due to the rapid fire, high bullet speed and large clips.

It almost sounds like you are saying that the ruger does not have high bullet speed or damage.


The semis might need a little boost in something to counter the autos ability to spray a blanket area with bullets. The thing I'm concerned about is that the autos actual fighting performance* will be unfairly weakend in an attempt to stop (or lessen the affect of) the scenario that Demonic said above.

*When players are in screen range and the auto user(s) are aiming 100% at the target for a kill, instead of doing 'supporting fire' or blocking.


Bugs Revenge, could you at least say how you think 5th account is wrong in his post, instead of just saying he can believe what he can believe. I'd like to hear it if you do have a better idea than 5th. (sorry if I have overlooked that better idea in a previous post.) Or are you just 'agreeing to disagree' and letting the issue rest.

[Xenocide]

If you see those things that I cannot, then tell me how all versions until 1.3 had a balanced spas with 130 damage, 140 speed and 32 in fireinterval? The spas in the exp. isn't really close to such powerful attributes. I cannot recall ever getting a 1 hit kill in any version or getting multis after multis. You see, the current spas does not deal enough damage to be an option for beating more popular guns like autos and M79. Two great hits from close to mid range is survivable, which is crazy.

I don't like to push at arguements, but there is 1 factor you are missing when you say in the previous weapon balances from previous version.  That factor is the Spas now has more pushback, thus causing any potential attacker instant death.  Two players rushing eachother, 1 with a Spas and the other with any weapon, when the spas hits the other player, that other player is going to instantly stop momentum.  This then gives the Spas user 1 more shot a this kills the other player.

When you said that 2 great hits from a Spas is survivable, that has lag with that reason.  Recently, I've been reviewing and learning a few things about connection speeds.  What had happened was there were issues with one of my ISP's T1s outbound to the C.O. (central office).  For the past 3-4 months I've been having a lot of issues with registering shots, but others shots would register without flaw. Now, my ISP fixed the issue and my upload speeds increase phenominally.  I went and joined a SNA Gather that night and I had little issues with registering shots.  So if my shots registering increased by a simple connection fix, then wouldn't have something to do with the Spas 'apparently' not killing on 2 close-range shots?


Now I have not reviewed the currently Beta Weapon balance (which I want to try tonight), so I can not say what would be good or bad.  But I'm sure you already compensate for connection issues when testing your weapon balances.  Because even though the weapons seem very balanced in a LAN based game, doens't necessarily mean they will have even close of the same response in-game.  Those are just my 2-cents, quote if I'm wrong and I'll see where I can fix my mistakes and give you more information on trying to fix where I could have been wrong.

[Clawbug]

Well, maybe im a bit pointless here, but all which matters is the time it takes to kill someone, not the damage or speed, but the killing time.

[5th_account]

Half right... Damage and speed help adjust the frequency of X-hit kills and lethality over range.

[Clawbug]

Half right... Damage and speed help adjust the frequency of X-hit kills and lethality over range.

Well, yeah. But at the end it is the time it takes to kill, which determites is the weapon overpowered or not. That time can be changed by changing the ROF, Damage, and the speed of bullets and so on.

[Axel]

well, hey, i may be just one of those whiney lil bitches, but if you change the spas, you have to change teh mp5. the reason why i also think they seem like one hit kills, besides the fact the kick back allows for that extra shot, is that, especially in realistic, if someone has any damage already, the spas would easily finish the job. and it does, in my experience. if more than two people on the opposing side of a close map are using spas, there really isnt an alternative to it if you want to be able to keep up with them. and i have also been pushing for a more powerful mp5, for i think that the mp should be a close quarters auto, and thus should be able to stand up to the spas. this is off topic, but i think that if the spas is gonna be upgraded to be more close quarters, so should the mp5, with a higher reload speed and an especially fast rate of fire, but the small bullets can barely go farther than the spas and do little damage(not so little as the minigun, though). it should pack a punch in cq, like the shotgun. i havnt picked up this new beta, but the tweaks sound interesting, and i agree with them as a whole, so long as the low range of the weapon is enough to warrent the disemboilment of an enemy in cq.

Date Posted: September 12, 2006, 06:31:41 PMlol, no editing. i have a few revisions. the entire topic i made is kinda off topic, but anyway *the tweaks to the shotgun*. i feel like a dummass around 5th account, but to really characterize the sort of mp5 i like, generally, this is from dual mini uzi in a certain mod
i have acquired the loc of the stats for the weapons, by the way 5th.
120
4
30
105
200
1
0
-35
1
these should be the micro uzis stats, back up the origonal and try these out. works best if you just download and use the special ops mod.

Date Posted: September 12, 2006, 06:39:33 PMsomebodies forgot about this topic

[5th_account]

ZOMG DON'T BUMP THE TOPICS

*LOCKZ*