AK aiming.

[.Ryan.]

All weapons got weaker over time. I'd support boosting every single weapon.


But for this, aw no. The AK is powerful enough.

>>

No, it isn't. It's significantly inferior to both minimi and aug. The only time I see anyone playing with AK is when they are just playing around.

Really? show me

[Clawbug]

Im decent at steyr, from what I can tell, Ak takes around the same time as steyr to kill a person, steyr takes a lit less. But, ak is very accurate in all occasions, while steyrer could do very well on one kill, but suck horribly on the next. So I think its pretty balanced.

and p.s. with a little worm, ak can easily out gun steyr

How is it easier for AK to hit worming AUG, than for AUG to hit worming AK?

[The Owls]

I actually like the current AK quite a lot.  It makes for a perfect defense weapon.  Though the same can't be said about rushing with it.  This is one of the few weapons I'd say is balanced, and I wouldn't mind it being set as a bench mark for other weapons. 

As for the factor of aiming, it is one of the more accurate autos I'd say.  It isn't to difficult to hit a string of shots from even a full screen away, and is very deadly at distances despite its low bullet speed.  It will out shoot every other auto at long range, save maybe the steyr.  You may be wondering about the minmi, but as it is, the heavy movement accuracy makes it rather terrible at long range.  And you can't sacrifice movement by standing still in a long range fight to remove bink from your minimi, that's just suicide.

Steyr has a slight advantage over the AK at long range because it shoots fast bullets in a concentrated spread making it a bit easy to aim.  Its drawback though is its shallow clip, giving the AK the overall advantage in long range fights.

[Pie]

IT won't out shoot The minimi, Which has a faster bullet speed, So it fires faster making it go a longer distance. I find myself wanting to use the ak, but it frankly isn't much good, i grab the steyr because of its long range, and the minimi because it's a better spray weapon, The Ak is like the middle child for me, No one really cares about it much.

[excruciator]

Im decent at steyr, from what I can tell, Ak takes around the same time as steyr to kill a person, steyr takes a lit less. But, ak is very accurate in all occasions, while steyrer could do very well on one kill, but suck horribly on the next. So I think its pretty balanced.

and p.s. with a little worm, ak can easily out gun steyr

How is it easier for AK to hit worming AUG, than for AUG to hit worming AK?

because of steyr fires the first round a little below the cursor while the 2nd and 3rd is above the cursor. now that doesnt seem like much but when you are 30m away from the target is pretty much a hit and miss.
If the ak start worming, the hit area will be reduced, so it makes the steyrs irregular fire more problematic, because now you have 2 problems at hand, one is the reduced hit area, also the two choices, to use the first line of fire(the one above the cursor), or the 2nd, the one below.
 also, when ak starts wormin, he will normally, fly fast toward you, and now you have to completely twick your aim. and when you completely twick your aim, the chance of you missing is much greater.

ak is much easier because ak has only one "solution". also because ak has bigger clip, a slower rate of fire, which allows the user more time to make necessary corrections. so ak is much more tolerant to misses while steyr does not, at all.

Now I never really got into ak so I cannot tell you the Ak side of the story.

[Clawbug]

Im decent at steyr, from what I can tell, Ak takes around the same time as steyr to kill a person, steyr takes a lit less. But, ak is very accurate in all occasions, while steyrer could do very well on one kill, but suck horribly on the next. So I think its pretty balanced.

and p.s. with a little worm, ak can easily out gun steyr

How is it easier for AK to hit worming AUG, than for AUG to hit worming AK?

because of steyr fires the first round a little below the cursor while the 2nd and 3rd is above the cursor. now that doesnt seem like much but when you are 30m away from the target is pretty much a hit and miss.
If the ak start worming, the hit area will be reduced, so it makes the steyrs irregular fire more problematic, because now you have 2 problems at hand, one is the reduced hit area, also the two choices, to use the first line of fire(the one above the cursor), or the 2nd, the one below.
 also, when ak starts wormin, he will normally, fly fast toward you, and now you have to completely twick your aim. and when you completely twick your aim, the chance of you missing is much greater.

ak is much easier because ak has only one "solution". also because ak has bigger clip, a slower rate of fire, which allows the user more time to make necessary corrections. so ak is much more tolerant to misses while steyr does not, at all.

Now I never really got into ak so I cannot tell you the Ak side of the story.

No human can "aim" at randomly moving target, no way to do that.

Test #1: Tell your friend to worm in the air, and try to keep the cursor on him. Hard? Very hard. Now add some 0.2 - 0.4s delay to your cursor and try to keep the cursor on him. Impossible. Now force yourself to keep the cursor above him by some 1-3 cm. Do you think anyone can seriously even try doing that? I thnk people would just randomply move their cursor above him and hope the best.

Test #2: Take a static object somewhere in the map, and move around, try to keep your cursor on the object. This is easier one, but still no one can keep the aim at the same place 100%. It will always shake, even if you know how you move, and where the object is going to. The faster you move, the harder it gets. Now start shooting at it. You can hit some 95% or more, but what if it started mocing up, down, left right? You couldn't aim.

Same applies to Soldat. You don't aim, you just keep shooting towards the enemy if he is wormnig/"dancing", you aren't aiming at the enemy at all really. The problem with aiming is not really "lack of skill", but the lack of ability to predict, and the fact that humans can't react at the same very time enemy changes the direction. That adds some 0.1s delay, then your hand is ALWAYS slower than your brain, increasing the delay. Once you start aiming at something, you notice it just started moving another direction, so there is no way you can aim at randomly moving target.

What does that have to do with Soldat? Well, you can't AIM at moving objects which you can't predict. Sure some left-right-left-right can be easier after some practise, but what if it was left-stop-left-right-stop-left-right-stop-right-right-right-left-stop? After a time you would just shoot at it without aiming, hoping the best. Though, against "worming" enemy you can aim somehow, unless he does something else than just taps X, elg. jet up, worm, worm, jet up, worm + jet, worm + jet up, something you have no chance to predict. Besides, in Soldat the ammo gives even than 0.2s delay, and so does your brain, in the worst case, and by taht time the direction of the target has changed.

Oh, this is the reason why I hate those who say "With this new mouse and mousepad I can aim alot better!1!", unless the old mouse was ball mouse and the mouse pad was old 50 grit sand paper. The problem is not in our mice, not in our mousepads, but in our brain.

[.Ryan.]

That's pretty much bang on the mechanics of aiming for Soldat. It's different for every game (fps's for example) but that's an accurate portrait of human reaction/behaviour in soldat. In terms of the auto discussion were having here.. Someone said the minimi was terrible at long range. That's totally untrue..I pwn with it at long range and can hit people in mid air with full auto fire, it's basically control. you get used to the move acc, however keeping in full auto gets inaccurate after around 12-13 bullets, thats when u pause very briefly and continue, or i tend to touch the ground briefly.

When aiming i tend to ignore the cursor and use the bullets path as my aiming line, tracing my target and making small ajustments depending on: 

the path,direction the enemy is going, or likely to go, tracing them.

Distance from target, (raising or lowering your cursor respectively)

it sounds pretty obvious i know, its the basic principles of aiming, but it works. i get complimented on my aiming quite often with autos and the princliples above is always whats going through my head, on top of.. should i throw a nade now and..should i pull out my knife (instinct).

I must say the balance of the weapons is done very well tbh, i'v played a few games before and felt some increadable unbalance, but MM and the dev team have done a fairly good job all in all with the w/balance.
All the weapons are diverse in their own respects, but never atchually unbalanced.

[excruciator]

clawbug

worm isnt completely random. also, the wormer has reduced accuracy, which gives you more time to kill.

you are completely right, our reaction is not instantaneous. But see, steyr has to deal with the lesser ammo, weird aiming, less time to adjust on top of everything you said. So that makes it harder.
But ak has the problem that there is too much space between the bullets that makes it easier to miss. In the end, ak still has the ammo advantage. So it makes it a very desirable weapon for a 1 on 1.

the skill of predicting and doing the impossible is just what makes a good gunner different from major.


sidenote> I think the current balance is perfect. But the twick for the steyr for 1.5.0 is way too easy. is too accurate.

[JonWood007]

AK is not inferior to minimi or AUG, trust me.

I would know because AK is my best weapon. I have left many enemies lifeless at my feet using it, I get tons of kills.

AK is more of a mid-range weapon. It has a little bit too much of a curve to be considered "long range" IMO. To get the best results with the AK, go into somewhere with tons of enemies and fire away. Dont get TOO close, but dont try to snipe with the thing neither. Watch the kills pile up.

MP5- Close range

AUG- Mid range (but can be long if burst fired)

Minimi- ALL RANGES (best at long when standing still)

Date Posted: January 12, 2008, 10:51:37 amWell, according to Soldat statistics, I have gotten 2349 kills with the AK, more than any other weapon. my 2nd best is the AUg, but I only have 1459 kills with that.

All total, I have gotten 14127 kills since I started using the program, and as I said, the AK contributed more than anything else.

I use almost all the weapons, which is why the AK has only contributed 1/7. but the AK is the best IMO. Its big clip and decent damage means I can kill 3-4 enemies with 1 clip.

[FearTheReaper]

As those who have played me will know, I am not that great yet. Still very noob. BUT...
Even though I am trying to learn Ruger, I will switch to AK for easy kills. I find this gun one of the best in the game. It has a good damage and is very easy to aim (partly because rate of fire/selfbink is lower). Minimi is good too, but I like AK probably the most. And I can score all the way to the other side of the screen.

[TiReD]

Uh...

I think this thread was about steyr being easier on all ranges compared to ak.

Not about ak being sucky.

[FearTheReaper]

Well I disagree.

I am bad with Steyr. I find it easier to use AK than Steyr, because the high ROF and self-bink kill me (yes, even on burst). Some people pwn with it, but I personally think Steyr is not as good as AK or Minimi.

*sits back and waits for flamewar*

[Ziem]

Well I disagree.

I am bad with Steyr. I find it easier to use AK than Steyr, because the high ROF and self-bink kill me (yes, even on burst). Some people pwn with it, but I personally think Steyr is not as good as AK or Minimi.

*sits back and waits for flamewar*

Play gather and face the truth (good steyr user ownz, OWNZ).
Who cares about that someone can't use it? There are a lot of those who play steyr, just because it's better for rush. RoF? it's advantage. Selfbink? What?? If Steyr will have 50 bink, then I'll see something like "selfbink", now it's quite impossible (unless you are holding this $%@$* mouse button  till the clip ends)

[excruciator]

Well I disagree.

I am bad with Steyr. I find it easier to use AK than Steyr, because the high ROF and self-bink kill me (yes, even on burst). Some people pwn with it, but I personally think Steyr is not as good as AK or Minimi.

*sits back and waits for flamewar*

Play gather and face the truth (good steyr user ownz, OWNZ).
Who cares about that someone can't use it? There are a lot of those who play steyr, just because it's better for rush. RoF? it's advantage. Selfbink? What?? If Steyr will have 50 bink, then I'll see something like "selfbink", now it's quite impossible (unless you are holding this $%@$* mouse button till the clip ends)

 gathers are now using 1.5 balance which I think is a complete bullsh!t, where steyr is the easiest and accurate gun there is. So you cant really compare gather with normal game

[Ziem]

Well I disagree.

I am bad with Steyr. I find it easier to use AK than Steyr, because the high ROF and self-bink kill me (yes, even on burst). Some people pwn with it, but I personally think Steyr is not as good as AK or Minimi.

*sits back and waits for flamewar*

Play gather and face the truth (good steyr user ownz, OWNZ).
Who cares about that someone can't use it? There are a lot of those who play steyr, just because it's better for rush. RoF? it's advantage. Selfbink? What?? If Steyr will have 50 bink, then I'll see something like "selfbink", now it's quite impossible (unless you are holding this $%@$* mouse button till the clip ends)

 gathers are now using 1.5 balance which I think is a complete bullsh!t, where steyr is the easiest and accurate gun there is. So you cant really compare gather with normal game

I've forgot, sry xDDD
Anyway... play with experienced players, on priv servers (or play a cw), and THEN face the truth -.-'
( omg steyr will be overpowered even more GJ ^^  )