Grenades - Need to be nerfed

[Extacide]

Lol, thanks for the support guys.

http://files.filefront.com/wardropdown2sdm/;10053785;/fileinfo.html

I uploaded the last CW I played (earlier today). Somewhat of an extreme example due to the map and grenade useage, but extreme examples are what get the point across.

P.S. We weren't using ventrilo and I was a little frustrated that match.

Actually, I dug up this old post. It was a demo someone asked for from before. I don't even remember what match it was, but it's a demo nonetheless.

[Lt. Sprizz]

Yeah i play on dial-up usually at 400+. Yes, there are time when grenades do not kill me, but it is not an advantage playing withtat much lag. Lag sux for every1. U may not kill em with a nade but guess what? its nearly impossible for me to kill you. with that much lag, u have to lead the person you're shooting at so far, it's like you're firing in the opposite direction.
And with that much lag, that guy with the chainsaw who's on the other side of the screen runs right through and slices your head off in a hundreth of a second.

I thing nades should keep the same amount of power, but definitely limit them on servers. the servers where you only get one grenade are, in my opinion, the funnest to play on. But quit saying lag is an advantage.

[jerich]

Woah, were up to page 20 and I've been missing out.

This topic refers to the balance of grenades in the standard 3v3 CTF clan war setup, i.e. three grenades in the hands of generally very skilled players.

If somehow you succeed to change the balance of the grenades, you do realize that you are not only affecting standard 3v3 matchups, but the default modded soldat as a whole. Not everyone is for your support, as you can see alot of players, mostly pubbers, are inclined to disagree. Soldat should compliment the best for the public because that is the foundation of soldat. To me, IMO, it seem's that you pose a "pubbers" knowledge of the balance inferior to a "clanner" such as yourself. You even felt that you had to post your soldat career...

I'm an American, so I doubt you see me often. I've been playing soldat for nearly four years, having been an active member of 20+ clans, and 5 seasons of SCTFL, 3 (or 4, I can't remember) made to the playoffs. Theres your credentials. Excruciator however, I've never seen either. There are a lot more 'clanners' in support of this idea. Mancer does in fact use grenades, and I can easily say hes among one of the most crafty to use them, if not the best grenade user.

I myself used to be in a clan scene until I recently quit. Not once have I seen a person even complain about the balance of grenades.

Anyways, as I was saying, if you feel that 3v3's are unbalanced, I think you should complain to the leagues rather than the weapon balance threads. The standard 3v3's are based on league settings and that's where you'll achieve possibly the most success(rather than changing the balance itself). I believe the balance is fine because the grenade SHOULD be the strongest weapon(maybe under the LAW) if you want to compare the power of the soldat balance to a realistic(real life not R/S) balance, but then again, it's all in personal opinion and I do still respect yours.

If I would propose a solution for you, then it would be to limit the grenade to 1 MAX. In this case, the grenade can not be spammed, it's more vital and will require more skill. Also, due to the decreased amount, it becomes more ineffective unless you are at the nade spawn at your own base, where the player is probably ineffective because...well he's in his base. The intensity remains, the speed remains, but the gunplay and aim is more vital. Isn't that what you want?

[Extacide]

you do realize that you are not only affecting standard 3v3 matchups, but the default modded soldat as a whole

Er, the balance is more or less based off of clan war setups. Thats where the imbalance makes itself obvious. From there, it trickles down to the rest of soldat. I was trying to get at a different point though, however. I was hinting that most of the players in pubs/gathers have most likely never seen just how good people really can be, and how much of a difference it makes when the match really counts for something. I mean, pubs and gathers for the most part are completely unorganized and full of newbies that suck. If the balance were to be based off of publics, the m79 would have been nerfed to crap YEARS ago.

Regardless, if you want to over-generalize the importance of the public balance along side of the league balance, then I'll strike to the heart for you. Nerfing grenades wouldn't affect the public balance at all. Rarely are newbies capable of wielding grenades in the bulk that players do in clan matches (To elaborate, there'd be a few good players in any given public, and most clan wars consist of a bracket of extremely good players of minimal difference in skill level far beyond that of typical pub/gather stars), and the outcome of each match has no significance in a competitive level (Whereas the clan wars are usually in preparation for competition in major soldat leagues, if the match isn't within the league itself already). Just like every balance the clan community has to adapt, so does the public. So does everyone.

The standard 3v3's are based on league settings and that's where you'll achieve possibly the most success(rather than changing the balance itself)

The leagues are NOT going to cater to individual weapon balance issues, in EVERY single case they leave it to the beta testers for balance. Not once has ANY league made it a rule to use a specific weapon mod other than the default. It's laughable. It has to come straight through to soldat itself, because regardless of everything the grenade is overpowered. The players participating in the clan community and league communities can interject their opinions from there. (And VERY few have, at this point) At any rate, theres no way to even attempt to balance this through weapon mods because there are grenade parameters missing to nerf it properly.

I believe the balance is fine because the grenade SHOULD be the strongest weapon

I think we now have a misunderstanding. The issue with grenades isn't necessarily their strength (being able to one shot kill), more or less the ease of use (Throwing them at people's faces, spamming them, offsetting the weapon balance in different situations, etc.) They don't need a damage nerf at all, just modifications that make them less useable, so that they are inevitably used a little less and the guns a little more. They'd still be strong, just not as versatile as they are now.

If I would propose a solution for you, then it would be to limit the grenade to 1 MAX

I already proposed a rule change in SCTFL that limited grenades from a maximum of three to two. It was shot down in a 5:2 margin. Like I said, it's really hard putting through significant rule changes that aren't standard to default soldat itself. Especially after the fact that they managed to change the rules from a maximum of four to three, I doubt they'd ever go beyond to one.

[-Major-]

go and make your own fucking game retard. you have told us many times now that you don't like the way soldat is. but go and make your own game that is based on weapons. soldat got strong nades and its game play is very much based on it. with the timer nade boosting wouldn't even be possible.

you must seriously be retarded,especially when you say others points are invalid or irrelative.

AND FFS CLOSE THIS THREAD

[jerich]

Well Extacide, then what I have to say to you is good luck. I don't play SCTFL or leagues anymore(not like I was competitive for me anyway, it was my leisure time) and I basically quit soldat so this really doesn't affect me. I still come here to help with the map making and make soldat movies because soldat has been entertaining me for a long four years.

Although you do bring some validity to your argument, I am still against what you're for. But if you are really passionate about the issue, then go for it and hopefully soldat can find that perfect version you're looking for.

[Ragnaros]

hah in my view, nades - are the ultimate contrargument against any (!) weapon... they are really, really overpowered! they were fine in 1.3

[cunchy]

hah in my view, nades - are the ultimate contrargument against any (!) weapon... they are really, really overpowered! they were fine in 1.3

If I'm not mistaken, nades were better in 1.3 than in this current version as they were less "heavier" and were able to be thrown further.

[tehsnipah]

hah in my view, nades - are the ultimate contrargument against any (!) weapon... they are really, really overpowered! they were fine in 1.3

If I'm not mistaken, nades were better in 1.3 than in this current version as they were less "heavier" and were able to be thrown further.

I personally think 1.4's nade range is very fair/balanced. Also, nades are supposed to be "heavy" in real life, so it should drop faster.

[The Philanthropist]

I agree with Extacide, limit the grenades to 1.

[tehsnipah]

It is in SCTFL version. Unless you don't pick up the grenade pack, you only have one grenade. But if you pick up your grenade pack, you have three grenades on you.

[Extacide]

If I'm not mistaken, nades were better in 1.3 than in this current version as they were less "heavier" and were able to be thrown further.

If I'm not mistaken, there were no changes at all to grenades in 1.3 other than their ability to impact with players in mid-air, which is where the base of my arguments lie.

I personally think 1.4's nade range is very fair/balanced. Also, nades are supposed to be "heavy" in real life, so it should drop faster.

1. The nade range is fine, but this has little to nothing to do with the suggestion at hand, which is to limit their usefulness. See the first post for my various suggestions.

2. Real life should and will not affect the soldat balance, nor does it ever have any weight in an argument where soldiers fly around with jet boots. Realism =/= soldat.

I agree with Extacide, limit the grenades to 1.

That wasn't my suggestion though...and honestly I'd disagree with that. Also, that is not an actual weapon balance change, thats a viable server option thats already possible through the server settings. If you'd want to see less grenades in the popular servers/gather servers/clan war servers/leagues, you'd have to take it up to the leagues themselves to define the default server setup for league matches to include only one grenade, rather than the current three which it is right now.

[Talix]

If you throw a grenade at something in real life, they will die.
You expect them not to die? :\

[LtKillroy]

If you throw a grenade at something in real life, they will die.
You expect them not to die? :\

If you shoot someone with a .50 caliber minigun in real life they die, but they don't in Soldat.

[STM1993]

*Actually, the XM214 fires the 5.56x46mm NATO, but I believe the readers should understand your point*

Soldat =/= Real life. I can list a whole chunk of stuff that makes Soldat unrealistic.

Anyway, about the nades, it seems the main problem is its capability of dealing heavy damage to another in a short while easily, while not so much to yourself.

No, there hasn't been any changes to the nades since 1.3. Probably except self-damage (not sure). The grenades could use a damage reduction for now, or heavier self-damage or both, but still enough to kill if the grenade hits the legs.

Maybe the nades could remain as they are currently when all the other weapons eventually get their major buff back to similar to 1.2.1 level.

[Ragnaros]

one more thing! grenades are absolutely deadly if they hit your legs!
lmao but if you throw the nade right in your opponent's head: maybe 40 or 50%hp will be lost...

btw))) one funny idea... maybe grenades should ricochet from players?

[LtKillroy]

Hmm, I thought the mini Soldat used wasn't the NATO one.

As for this idea, I liked the idea of increasing the time between throws like was mentioned before. As for most of the other ideas being thrown around, no.

[ZomgProniss]

I completely agree this is the best idea that can revolutionize soldat. Lately there have been laggers who fly through grenades but with this profound idea we can bring soldat back to what it used to be. Registering.