Author Topic: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's  (Read 6202 times)

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Offline Platehead

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 02:14:12 am »
MP5 is also pretty good due to rapid fire rate, hence push, decent firepower and all that
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Offline chutem

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 02:43:17 am »
Only problem with mp5 is that you have to reload it, and in that time someone can saw you.
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Offline Platehead

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 03:38:36 am »
MP5 reload is relatively short... and you also have handy grenades for keeping them at bay while you reload
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Offline tehsnipah

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 06:30:03 am »
And if you screw up your nade miserably, you're dead.
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Offline Major Pain

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2008, 10:39:27 am »
If you screw ANYTHING you're probably dead.
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Offline Ray

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2008, 11:39:35 am »
Barret and Ruger are probably two good weapons to hold the zombies, because when they see the players with those two weapons, they crouch.
Only if they're on easy.
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Offline ~Niko~

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2008, 11:47:23 am »
gimme the IP and port of a decent zombie server, this is senseless without servers, i can't find them anywhere.

Offline Espadon

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2008, 02:46:29 pm »
On a slightly related note, are the FA DZ servers dead?
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Offline UnknownSniper

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2008, 05:52:14 pm »
On a slightly related note, are the FA DZ servers dead?

Technically, they died long ago.
When the admins(not naming) began using hacks in their own server, I and most of the older, active users left. Last I went in it was a bunch of noobs and a couple of Major's.
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Offline Platehead

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2008, 02:38:06 am »
True, you screw up anything you're dead, however, wouldn't barrett reload be longer? =P
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Offline STM1993

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2008, 06:36:31 am »
Hmm, some of those things don't work. Trust me.

Btw, Boogie Men are also called "Zombies" in some servers, since they generally also hold a chainsaw and behave similarly.

- Granades are your friends. The AI of the BoogieMan is scrpited to avoid granades until they detonate. A single granade thrown in front of them can stop a whole army of them for 2-3 seconds. By throwing one by one in intervals you can keep them at bay until your weapons or your teammates ones are reloaded.
Do NOT spam granades. You end up hurting your teammates more than the enemy and then are left without them when you need them.

There are some servers I have played, the Zombies still continue to rush at you even after you've thrown a nade on the ground and they see it and they are a distance away. They just continued to run and boom. Btw, when using nades (applies to PvP as well), try to aim for the legs when nading. For zombies, you may want to consider dropping the nade on the ground. They may step on it.

This also applies for Ruger, Barrett, and Chainsaw. I found zombies in such servers who ignore grenades, also ignore those three weapons, and fists.

Do you know, if those zombies who don't seem to move when they are affected by the Ruger/Barrett/Chainsaw/Fists, they actually still move. They crouch and stay there, waiting for you right? Wrong. They just don't move HORIZONTALLY. They WILL move VERTICALLY. If you see a Zombie coming down from a hill or directly below you, please becareful. They WILL still charge at you. But if both of you are on flat land, then it's quite safe unless there are people who provoke the zombies in one way or another.



- DO NOT PUSH. If you're using any weapons that has a big push (Minimi, Minigun, shotgun) NEVER shoot in the back of your teamates - you only push them into their death. Same goes for granades. I lost count how many times I got pushed from a perfectly secure position by some prick that decided it would be fun to shoot me in the back with a shotgun.

Some of those people deserved to be pushed. For example, I was at the front (crouched/proned), using the reload trick with my Spas-12 and holding the zombies off VERY well. Some idiots try to be a hero or want to earn lots of kills, and decided to go in front of me and block me and shoot the zombies. They can't hold out the zombies, they run backwards, I can't shoot, they die, I get sawed too. If that happens, I won't hesitate to continue shooting, even if it means pushing them to their deaths, because they may screw up the front and end up we have to respawn all the way from the start or cause more problems in future. I would continue shooting, so that at least if that blocker dies, it can still hurt the zombies and I can still hold out.

Other than that, I'd agree that there shouldn't be pushing unless its part of a useful tactic.

By the way, there is another type of pushing. It's called pushing the zombies. It happens if someone using explosive weapons shoot the zombies, but somehow the explosion boosts the zombie over to you. It is usually a careless mistake or unexpected lag.

- Push weapons go in front. Weapons with high push should go in front. Miniguns and minimis especially. Those using shotguns can arc their shots from behind if needed.

Actually, it is the shotgunners who should stay in front, followed by the autos, then those with Ruger/Barrett/LAW, then followed by the other weapons. Good shotgunners should know the reload trick of holding down the Reload button and shooting almost as fast as possible, which allows the Shotgunner to keep shooting as though he had unlimited ammo since he is reloading with every shot he fires.

- Tag Team. While two fire the other two wait and reload. Once the ammo is back the first two fall back, while the other two move forward and open fire, providing a near-constant rain of steel.

If your team is cooperative, so be it. But in publics, there is little chance that can ever happen. People are just eager to get kills.

- Narrow passages are your friend. The BoogieMan can't jump over the granade easily here or jump you from above. Walls provide excellent places for richoses. Two minigunners can hold off a whole army here for an eternity if need be.

Narrow passages can also be a nightmare. Your OWN movement is restricted as well, and you'll be in grave danger if the Zombies happen to charge at you super fast and for some reason be unable to stop him. You can't even jump and jet and backflip (which can save you if the map has enough jet fuel and maybe if you are using a Spas/Minigun).



It really depends on the server, though some things remain consistent.

Note that on some servers, THERE ARE HUMAN ZOMBIES! In other words, real players as zombies, not bots. There are also some servers where Zombies HAVE guns. Or even rarer, throw knives at you.

I'll type my tips later (mostly weapon-related).

Date Posted: 24 September 2008, 18:29:36
My Tips for Zombies (weapon-related):
Here are some tips about weapons in zombie-situations. It involves a general outlook of weapons, as well as give examples of such weapons with reference to the default weapons. (Because some servers have weapon mods) For this, I'll just give you tips for what weapons to choose.


What do you look for in weapons? 4 things:

1) Damage Potential
The more damage, the faster you can kill the enemy. Why I used "potential" behind, is because the weapon damage does not live on the damage per shot alone. The speed of the projectile/bullet launched and the firing rate of the weapon also affects the damage potential.

2) Bullet Push
Bullet push is an essential element in Soldat, zombies are no exception. Bullet push means you can stop the Zombie from approaching you too quickly, slowing him down. This will increase your chance of survival as they can't reach you. Bullet push is determined by the type of bullet fired by the gun, the firing rate of the gun, and the bullet speed of the gun. The bullet push will also determine whether it is good for boosting others/yourself.

3) Bullet Speed
Bullet speed determines not just the damage and bullet push, but also the range. The lower the bullet speed, the more the weapon's projectile can arc/curve, but the less effective at longer range. The higher the bullet speed, the faster the bullet can reach the enemy and being able to hit at longer ranges, but making you lose the ability to shoot over tactical curves.

4) Recovery Rate
In other words, both firing rate and reload time. How long do you take before you can fire again?






A gun with high damage potential and bullet push can hold out enemies very well until they need to recover (due to slow firing rate or slow reload). The recovering time can be made up for with teamwork to back you up though. Good examples are the XM214 Minigun (may cause lag) and FN Minimi.



A gun with high damage potential and recovery rate can also hold out enemies very well, just that if the enemy is too close, he can't push the enemy away in time to save himself. Unless this weapon is a 1-hitter (only Rambo Bow, Flamed Arrows). A good example is the Desert Eagles.

Yes, Desert Eagles. They are amazingly good for zombie encounters actually.



A gun with bullet push and recovery rate is similar to one with high damage potential and recovery rate. The gun is good for holding out and would not be able to kill the enemy in time to save himself even with a strong pushing ability if the enemy is too close. Two good examples are the HK MP5 and (surprisingly) the Steyr Aug (Steyr Aug has more range).



A gun with high damage potential and a high bullet speed is more of a support weapon to save team mates from problems and to take out stronger zombies (if any) unless the user is extremely good at evading zombies and the map is good for maneuvering around. A good example is the Ruger 77.

There is a certain level of recovery rate to determine if it is good or bad. The Ruger 77 is a good example because it has enough recovery rate to keep it going in longer battles. If the recovery rate is too poor, it is a shoot and throw-away weapon most of the time, like a Barrett and a M72 LAW. It wouldn't be useful unless there are stronger zombies around. The LAW has the explosive power, but a M79 should be used instead since it has much better recovery rate.



A gun with only short range and poor recovery rate MUST have high damage potential and some pushing ability (M79) to act as a support weapon, otherwise its completely useless (Combat Knife is useless against zombies).

The AK isn't good for zombie games because it has too poor damage potential and bullet push, and its recovery rate is only decent.



The M2 Stationary Gun (turret) is debatable to be useful or useless. The turret is only useful in the condition where the turret need to only be fired in one constant direction. In realistic mode where the firing rate is greatly reduced, it is useless. What makes the M2 Stat Gun usable is due to its high damage and high bullet speed. Its recovery rate is actually decent or better. How to use a stat gun?

1) Do not hold down the shoot button all the way. You can only fire 18 bullets before you need to recover for a long period of time.

2) Fire in short bursts of 2-3, with a short rest in between. This way, you can shoot consistently. This will also help you when you suddenly meet with a close encounter. If you had fired till it overheated, you will be killed. But if you had kept it cool, you can fire full-auto for a short period of time in an emergency.

3) If your turret is overheating + there is no one in front to support you + there are too many zombies incoming FAST, get away from the turret. Even if you have berserker mode, it might be wiser to use your primary gun (hopefully an automatic or Spas-12) instead of the turret for a while. This is situational, but this is a general view of most similar situations.



Flamer is also quite debatable. It can cause major lag in servers. Its ability to kill zombies is both strong and weak. Why? The flames cannot go through a zombie, they will stick to the first one in its path. Zombie BOTS can die quickly to flames, but it takes a while before they actually burn to death. If you ever use a Flamer, you must be in a safe spot where you can guarantee your safety and also be able to burn more than one zombie at once. Though be careful ; you may lag up the server.



The Rambo Bow and Flamed Arrows are no doubt some of the best weapons. Fast recovery rate, 1-hit kills, and decent bullet speed, and it gives you health-recovery rate which is very useful in some zombie servers. Actually, contrary to popular belief, the Rambo Bow is generally a better zombie-killer than the Flamed Arrows (unless the server is a bit different). Do you know why?

1) Although the Flamed Arrows have explosive power, it runs the risk of accidentally killing yourself, boosting your teammate or worst of all, boost the zombie right into your face. Also, it shoots noticeably slower than the Rambo Bow. The Rambo Bow is much faster, and so the Rambo Bow is more practical when trying to kill multiple zombies coming towards you. Besides, the damage from the explosion itself (not direct hit) of the Flamed Arrows is incredibly low. Don't believe me? It has damage 800, while the typical explosive weapon has 150000 damage, and the M79 has 165000 damage.

2) Both can kill in 1-hit. Sure, Flamed Arrows have more damage due to its explosive nature while Rambo Bow actually has a chance of not killing. But that chance is very low, and any zombie in your screen will definitely be killed as long as the arrow hits. If the Rambo Bow/Flamed Arrows happen to not kill no matter how you shoot but they happen to be bleeding, don't use them. It's a bug which causes the Rambo projectiles to be unable to kill but make the enemy at 1 hp.



Flamed Arrows vs Rambo Bow is actually up to personal preference, but this is my view. Each gun has its own pros and cons, and you may see these pros and cons to your advantage or disadvantage.

Please take note: When using the Rambo Bow/Flamed Arrows, EVERY bot will chase after you, including allied bots, which can be really annoying.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 06:38:59 am by STM1993 »

Offline Tek+Lok

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2008, 06:40:08 am »
I prefer the "every man for himself" rule

Offline STM1993

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2008, 06:53:35 am »
I prefer the "every man for himself" rule

That always happens though. No one really cares. That's why teamwork is kinda useless.

EDIT:
Okay I better go back and study. My exams in two days.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 07:08:48 am by STM1993 »

Offline Tek+Lok

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2008, 07:07:07 am »
We should design more complex maps with maze like paths for zombie servers, i always found those the funnest.

Offline danmer

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2008, 01:54:14 pm »
This also applies for Ruger, Barrett, and Chainsaw. I found zombies in such servers who ignore grenades, also ignore those three weapons, and fists.
it all depends on the "Camping" value in the botfile. Boogie Man has it at 255 (max) by default, so they will always stop at statguns and next to palyers with rifles/saw/fists. But if there's even one bot with Camping set to 0 in a crowd of boogies, they all will rush forward no matter what weapon you're wielding (from my experience).
Anyway, nice guide for beginners, if there are such beginners who want to learn but cant figgure out stuff on their own ;)

Offline Major Pain

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2008, 02:18:45 pm »
- DO NOT PUSH. If you're using any weapons that has a big push (Minimi, Minigun, shotgun) NEVER shoot in the back of your teamates - you only push them into their death. Same goes for granades. I lost count how many times I got pushed from a perfectly secure position by some prick that decided it would be fun to shoot me in the back with a shotgun.

Some of those people deserved to be pushed. For example, I was at the front (crouched/proned), using the reload trick with my Spas-12 and holding the zombies off VERY well. Some idiots try to be a hero or want to earn lots of kills, and decided to go in front of me and block me and shoot the zombies. They can't hold out the zombies, they run backwards, I can't shoot, they die, I get sawed too. If that happens, I won't hesitate to continue shooting, even if it means pushing them to their deaths, because they may screw up the front and end up we have to respawn all the way from the start or cause more problems in future. I would continue shooting, so that at least if that blocker dies, it can still hurt the zombies and I can still hold out.

Other than that, I'd agree that there shouldn't be pushing unless its part of a useful tactic.

By the way, there is another type of pushing. It's called pushing the zombies. It happens if someone using explosive weapons shoot the zombies, but somehow the explosion boosts the zombie over to you. It is usually a careless mistake or unexpected lag.

Yeah, I know some really deserve to be pushed. Speaking of which, nades launching zombies right at me at my secure position high above - happens too often for my tastes.


Quote
- Push weapons go in front. Weapons with high push should go in front. Miniguns and minimis especially. Those using shotguns can arc their shots from behind if needed.

Actually, it is the shotgunners who should stay in front, followed by the autos, then those with Ruger/Barrett/LAW, then followed by the other weapons. Good shotgunners should know the reload trick of holding down the Reload button and shooting almost as fast as possible, which allows the Shotgunner to keep shooting as though he had unlimited ammo since he is reloading with every shot he fires.

I'd say it depends on the map. If it's a slope, so the autos can fire over the shotgunner, then sure. But if it's flat terrain, then a auto in the rear is useless, while a shotguner can simply arc shots over the autos.


Quote
Note that on some servers, THERE ARE HUMAN ZOMBIES! In other words, real players as zombies, not bots. There are also some servers where Zombies HAVE guns. Or even rarer, throw knives at you.

Last server I played on, the Zombies threw nades. Lots of nades. That was really gruesome.
[Minigun] + [MP5] = PWNAGE

Offline STM1993

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2008, 09:16:56 am »
I'd say it depends on the map. If it's a slope, so the autos can fire over the shotgunner, then sure. But if it's flat terrain, then a auto in the rear is useless, while a shotguner can simply arc shots over the autos.

That defeats the purpose of the shotgun. The Spas can't do much if you arc the shots. The Spas is renowned for damage + bullet push + recovery rate, easily one of the best weapons in zombie games. But arcing the shots, it loses bullet push ability and greatly reduced damage. In every situation, it is generally better for the shotgunner to be infront, unless maybe its an UPWARD slope and you're shooting from the downward position.

Quote
Last server I played on, the Zombies threw nades. Lots of nades. That was really gruesome.

Then that's a bad server. A good server is able to actually make the zombie not throw grenades.

Offline Major Pain

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Re: Fighting the Boogie - DO's and DONT's
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2008, 01:47:04 pm »
If the shotgunner is back far enough, he only needs to arc the shot slightly. It passes just over the head of whoever is in front and tears tight into zombies.
[Minigun] + [MP5] = PWNAGE