A possible problem - Bink vs Movementacc Balancing

[STM1993]

Take these Minimi stats and try them out ingame:

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0
FireInterval=9
Ammo=255
ReloadTime=1
Speed=270
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-5
MovementAcc=45
Recoil=0

As you can see, the bink is only -5, while the movementacc is 45.

With this insane amount of movementacc, you can't even try to NOT move while in mid-air (like how you use the Barrett or Ruger) to cancel the effects of movementacc - proning in mid-air doesn't work either. But if you simply stand ON THE GROUND and shoot, there is no inaccuracy. This explains why your Barrett isn't 100% accurate if you're in mid-air even if you do not move, but you are 100% accurate if you're on the ground.

Now, start moving and shooting. After about 4 shots or so, the self-bink will take effect. The problem is, your movementacc is COMPLETELY nullified after those 4 shots. You are as inaccurate as the self-bink makes you to be, which is a lot more accurate than without the self-bink.

Now try changing the bink to 50. When you get shot, again the bink nullifies the movementacc effect. It seems you have become only slightly less accurate, which is significantly less than if you have only movementacc and no bink. This actually explains why a Barrett-user, who is still partially binked, may be able to shoot quite accurately even though he was moving (this issue is basically resolved for Barrett with the implementation of startup time for Barrett).

Finally, change the bink to 0. No matter how much you shoot and get shot, the movementacc will ALWAYS take effect, because there is no self-bink or bink. From this, you can see the problem with bink vs movementacc.

Bink overrides movementacc -  it does not combine together, which can be a problem for the balance if these two are not adjusted properly.

This issue can prove to be a problem when balancing certain guns in terms of accuracy, most likely Ruger and all autos (especially Minimi).

If the movementacc were to be given and made high, an equally high or greater bink value must also be given, like how the Barrett is balanced. Otherwise, there could be no bink and have complete reliance on movementacc and the slight inaccuracy in some autos due to fast firing rate.

Trivia:
Set a movementacc high enough, and you'd may shoot backwards. It won't hurt you, but you can hurt enemies behind you.



EDIT 28/5/09:
This thread was made in 1.4.2 times, but everything in this first post is still true and reliable for the recent version. I now think the Minimi is okay if the Minimi had less self-bink like now in 1.5.0 but remained with movementacc 4 - all thanks to this bug turned into a gaming feature.

[excruciator]

You saying that bink cancel the effect of movimentacc?

Sounds like a bug to me.

[PQ]

I always thought that the movementacc was based on the keys you hold.. Seems to be not that way..

@ excruciator:

Yes and he's right

[STM1993]

You saying that bink cancel the effect of movimentacc?

Correct. Whether this is a feature or a bug, I don't know, but I believe this can be quite a problem when balancing some guns.

I always thought that the movementacc was based on the keys you hold.. Seems to be not that way..

Apparently it isn't. From this, I believe that movementacc takes effect as long as you are moving, but the amount of inaccuracy is greatly reduced (I estimate the inaccuracy is reduced by about 6-9) if you just let go of any movement key and let yourself fall if you're in mid-air. But if you are completely immobile, then you'd be 100% accurate.

[excruciator]

I always thought that the movementacc was based on the keys you hold.. Seems to be not that way..

It does to an extent, but the nullification is definitely better.


So...bink as a whole(self and dmg induced included) will kill movimentAcc, not just self.


Very interesting, definitely explains why minimi is still good with that huge of a nerf.

[STM1993]

Very interesting, definitely explains why minimi is still good with that huge of a nerf.

Yep... reducing the self-bink for the Minimi is a bad idea after all.



There are only two other ways to balance the Minimi if these problems persist:

Either remove self-bink and add a whole chunk of movementacc, or increase the self-bink to suit the movementacc.

...SKOSKAV (8th_account)! BETA TESTERS! WHERE ARE YOU?!

[Ziem]

Well, thats why ghey minimi is still powerful. The whole bink system should've been re-made in my opinion, it has a lot of flaws.

(Skoskav is inactive ... And betatesters don't care about forums that much :D)

[Lord Frunkamunch]

Then again, if the movementacc DID work correctly, the minimi would be a steaming pile of shit.

this also explains why my previous minimi tactic of firing in bursts was actually less effective than spraying.

[excruciator]

Then again, if the movementacc DID work correctly, the minimi would be a steaming pile of s**t.

this also explains why my previous minimi tactic of firing in bursts was actually less effective than spraying.

Naturally, if movimentAcc was working correctly, minimi wouldn't have gotten 45 in the first place.

[STM1993]

Then again, if the movementacc DID work correctly, the minimi would be a steaming pile of s**t.

Then the movementacc can be reduced if that is indeed the case.

Personally, I think the Minimi's fine - it has high ammo, powerful DPS and DOT, slow reload, high bullet speed - but it needs more self-bink or movementacc problem because this problem makes it more accurate than it's supposed to be. Besides, because its movementacc is not that high, it can be canceled easily by not moving. Either that, or it gets no bink and have movementacc only.

It's also not that hard to tap the Minimi or to fire in bursts so as to reduce and nullify the self-bink, though this tactic doesn't work in the current version of the Minimi. It only works on the older Minimi and Realistic Minimi.

Currently, the self-bink is -12. I reckon the self-bink value could be approximately between the ranges of -22 to -39. Too much self-bink would make the Minimi useless.

EDIT (16/7/09):
If you are someone who is reading this ancient post, I no longer hold onto this opinion. The Minimi should have low self-bink and movementacc 4.

[Demonic]

Start playing clan wars mate.