My thoughts

[Antipathy]

Got a nostalgic feeling the other day and, in the stupor, downloaded Soldat. I jack in and see a few servers here and there. Great, the game's still kicking. (barely)

It's still fun to play, that's the bottom line. But a few repeatedly occuring anomalies boiled my blood too many times to count.

1. Nade tapping. Sure, everyone's got nades, so it's all fair and equal, right. But it can still make the game shittier, so shut up and listen. If your first impulsive reaction when facing an enemy is to lob a nade up his ass, there's something wrong with the game. You see in most occasions, throwing a grenade is a better choice than using a gun. The aftermath is the game being a tossing contest instead of a firefight. I don't have a real point on this one, it just feels retarded. Nades shouldn't be a general solution to everything in the game. If you disagree, consider alternatives to life.

I say, increase the charging up time of a full lenght throw, reduce the cooking time, but also increase the maximum range of a throw and make nades bounce off walls harder. This should make nades less useful at being spammed at close-medium range, reduce the amount of nades lying on the ground as mines, but enhance their tactical versatility in new areas.

2. Getting blasted around. This one is heavily linked to the previous one. You've got a server full of players using the M79, LAW and nades. The aftermath is the game map being an explosive death zone. You ride the blastwaves to such an extent that you can barely control your movements. This often leads to a lame death one way or another.

I say, simply reduce the amount of blast force. Make the players less vulnerable to being tossed around like dust. Make polygons block explosive damage.

3. The M79. This weapon is a fun killer. Sure you can make some great shots at longer ranges and arcs, but ask yourself, do you like it when an M79 using player runs into you, giving you enough time to put a few bullets into him until he pulls the trigger at point blank range, reducing you to oblivion right in front of his face? Did it take skill? Was it rewarding or fun? Of course not. You're pissed because you just died the lamest possible death in Soldat, and he's pissed because he's now either dead from a selfkill or at low HP, all in exchange for one shitty kill.

Many years ago I saw a thread where someone suggested a minimum range for M79. Great idea. Why not make the M79 projectile bounce off on impact at very close ranges? It could then detonate automatically after a second or so. To compensate, you could make the projectile travel faster to increase range.

4. The Barrett. This weapon doesn't belong in Soldat. Not only has it undergone some crazy balancing solutions during the history of Soldat, it still doesn't fit. I'll be honest with you, I don't even know what to do with this mother fucker. I don't consider it a burning issue since few people use it, even fewer of which actually use it effectively. But every time this freak of nature jumps around the corner, I ask myself, what the fuck is this doing in this game? I doesn't go there, it doesn't belong...

Maybe you could remove the crosshair on the Barrett, remove the startup time and slap a real scope feature on that bitch, or something.


I could complain more, but enough is enough. Maybe this belonged to the improvements suggestions section, but anyhu. As far as this old veteran is concerned, the game's still great. No other game is as aggressive and fast paced as Soldat. That's worth an honorary mention. I hope the game and the community stays alive and frosty. But I also hope that new life could be brought into the slowly dying Soldat.

To me, a sequel is starting to sound like a pretty good solution... Anyway, thanks for listening to my thoughts. Do proceed to express yours.

[pavliko]

Soldat is all about realism....
Can't play realism? get out of here you pussy...


ADDED: There are sub game modes in which you can find the right settings for you... Aka servers which don't use nades, barretts, m79 or any other shit that you whine about....

[Antipathy]

Really? I don't see a point in your reply but I will attempt to communicate, nonetheless. I could never enjoy realism mode as much as regular. I'm not exactly on the bottom of Soldat things right now, but I dare say that realism still sucks. I can only imagine it being more fucked than the regular game.

[machina]

Eh, i've lost a lot of time making an answears for those stupid "ideas"... So, here are they:

1. I really don't want to see nades less useful cause everybody can use them... Someones batter and others worse...
2. It's just a game and we are going to have a lot fun... We don't really want anything more... Outside the blood
3. Experianced player would not come close to that fag with M79... -.-
4. Barret have a large Damage and Speed value... So it had to be somehow balanced using StartUpTime and other thing...

Seriously, Soldat is having quite good lately...

[Antipathy]

What a conservative attitude. Change is progress, friend. I started with 1.2.0 and just took a few years break. Maybe that opened up my mind for change.

And these ideas are just minor stuff, if it were up to me, Soldat 2 would be quite a different game.

[machina]

There are things in Soldat those we like to... You can't change it... Weapons in Soldat are like a holiness! Nades that don't explode on soldaiers wouldn't be so useful. Exactly, nede would become useless...
Soldat needs anothe kind of progress like account system, new GUI and interface... Those are things which the developers should care about now...

[Bonecrusher]

1. I'm not very good nade user too so I rage sometimes when being killed by nade+auto combo but if used properly nades are your best friend
2. Learn better movement to avoid explosives
3. i just got used to it
4. Barret is fun to play now

Soldat needs anothe kind of progress like account system, new GUI and interface... Those are things which the developers should care about now...

I like soldat for its simplicity why should we ruin that? Or did u mean improving gui and leaving interface for mockups

And these ideas are just minor stuff, if it were up to me, Soldat 2 would be quite a different game.

Soldat 2 wouldnt be such a success imo unless it was similiar to soldat just with less bug. So i'd stay with current soldat and current dev team which is getting rid of bugs really good[bugs.soldat.pl]

[machina]

I like soldat for its simplicity why should we ruin that? Or did u mean improving gui and leaving interface for mockups

I mean I wonder to see prettier GUI with some new good things...

[Bonecrusher]

goster viewer would be good

[L[0ne]R]

1. Depends on the map size, number of players and max # of grenades they can carry. If it's set to 5, the map is small, and there's 12+ players - then yeah, it becomes a nadefest. However with 2-3 nades max it's not so bad, especially on larger maps.
More things to keep in mind:
- Their range is pretty short.
- Few seconds delay unless you actually hit a collider or a player.
- They're a great last-resort weapon when you're out of ammo, so wasting your nades early will cost you later.
- Nades come from nade kits, and those aren't infinite.
- Placement of the kits is also important. If nadefests happen - it could be a problem with poorly designed map.

2. Same as above - it doesn't normally happen unless theres lots of players with lots of nades in the same spot. Generally people use different weapons and have less nades, so getting blasted around isn't very common, but when it does happen - it's actually fun and not frustrating.

3. That isn't supposed to happen since M79 shots have a large AoE and will hurt a lot or even kill the shooter if he's too close. They probably survive due to lag. Also, if you let the enemy get so close to you in the first place - it's mostly your fault. ;| Adding a minimum range to M79 will, again, make it a much less fun weapon, not to mention that M79 boosts will no longer work.

4. Every shooter needs a sniper rifle. Sure zooming is a little iffy balance-wise, but overall I think Soldat would be pretty dull without a barrett. Not sure where you got the idea that "it just doesn't belong". :/

[Wes]

1. Depends on the map size, number of players and max # of grenades they can carry. If it's set to 5, the map is small, and there's 12+ players - then yeah, it becomes a nadefest. However with 2-3 nades max it's not so bad, especially on larger maps.
More things to keep in mind:
- Their range is pretty short.
- Few seconds delay unless you actually hit a collider or a player.
- They're a great last-resort weapon when you're out of ammo, so wasting your nades early will cost you later.
- Nades come from nade kits, and those aren't infinite.
- Placement of the kits is also important. If nadefests happen - it could be a problem with poorly designed map.

2. Same as above - it doesn't normally happen unless theres lots of players with lots of nades in the same spot. Generally people use different weapons and have less nades, so getting blasted around isn't very common, but when it does happen - it's actually fun and not frustrating.

3. That isn't supposed to happen since M79 shots have a large AoE and will hurt a lot or even kill the shooter if he's too close. They probably survive due to lag. Also, if you let the enemy get so close to you in the first place - it's mostly your fault. ;| Adding a minimum range to M79 will, again, make it a much less fun weapon, not to mention that M79 boosts will no longer work.

4. Every shooter needs a sniper rifle. Sure zooming is a little iffy balance-wise, but overall I think Soldat would be pretty dull without a barrett. Not sure where you got the idea that "it just doesn't belong". :/

I think the OP has some reasonable arguments. Every shooter needs a sniper rifle is one odd statement if you ask me. Name another 2d shooter that has a sniper rifle. Even if you can name one, it probably is not comparable to soldat. Soldat is unique, and has a lot of balance issues build right into the core gameplay.

The zoom function is not what makes the sniper rifle broken, its the instant kill and it's effect on game flow. I say this without making any judgments on it's viability as a weapon.

M79 is worse than the barrett as far as broken goes. The hitbox of the actual shot is large and lag makes it even larger/unpredictable. This means anyone can just lob the damn thing at you and your death is a dice roll away. Still this is not to say it is a good or viable weapon, it simply breaks the flow of the game. And I am not saying it doesn't take skill to use either of these weapons.

But I don't have any answers either, fighting someone using a barrett and m79 can be fun. I think it's just that we want a reliable skill based game with more layers. Soldat doesn't offer that as much as some of us wish it did. When I first played soldat I played it hoping there was room for skill improvement on an individual level. Meaning I could just get very good at fighting and simply my skill alone would make me win. In soldat that just isnt the case. It's all about the team, and the flow of the fight. People can get very good at soldat, absolutely. But it isn't about their own fighting skill on an individual level. Since I've played a lot of fighting games competitively I naturally want more layers and options in soldat, so a good player simply couldn't die unless matched with someone his own skill level. I think a lot of people want this but the game does not allow it at it's core. Being a 2d shooter means a lot for a game, and I don't think people always realize this. There are not many ways a 2d shooter can even work in the first place. Look at Link-dead and read MM's frustration with it not working out throughout it's creation process.

Anyway I find soldat extremely interesting, I just hope it can become deeper and involve a more personally reliable skill system. People blame the barrett, or the m79, or nades, but in reality soldat is simply a challenge to make deep and competitive regardless of those weapons.


-DustyDisk

[L[0ne]R]

Well, lags and eats are a different story. It's not a problem with the weapons - it's a problem with the game.

As for the flow of the game - personally I never found that any of these weapons break it. Quite the opposite - they make this flow more exciting. Barrett is a nice supportive and defensive weapon (at least it's very useful in INF and TW, that's for sure), while M79 heavily utilises Soldat's physics - aside from killing an enemy you can also boost him into deadly polygons, boost yourself away, use it to blow up grenades on the ground, or who knows what else players can come up with. Take these weapons out of the game and all you'll be left with is autos and semi-autos.

Every shooter needs a sniper rifle is one odd statement if you ask me. Name another 2d shooter that has a sniper rifle. Even if you can name one, it probably is not comparable to soldat. Soldat is unique, and has a lot of balance issues build right into the core gameplay.

Well I can't say I've seen many (if any) games that have sniper rifles with zoom, but I certainly have played a ton of 2D games that feature some sort of slow-but-powerful weapon. Even in good old NES games they appeared from time to time. Barrett is that kind of weapon, or at least it's supposed to be, but unfortunately some of the bugs in the game kinda ruin it.

I think it's just that we want a reliable skill based game with more layers. Soldat doesn't offer that as much as some of us wish it did. When I first played soldat I played it hoping there was room for skill improvement on an individual level. Meaning I could just get very good at fighting and simply my skill alone would make me win. In soldat that just isnt the case. It's all about the team, and the flow of the fight. People can get very good at soldat, absolutely. But it isn't about their own fighting skill on an individual level. Since I've played a lot of fighting games competitively I naturally want more layers and options in soldat, so a good player simply couldn't die unless matched with someone his own skill level. I think a lot of people want this but the game does not allow it at it's core. Being a 2d shooter means a lot for a game, and I don't think people always realize this. There are not many ways a 2d shooter can even work in the first place. Look at Link-dead and read MM's frustration with it not working out throughout it's creation process.

I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say.. are you saying players are too dependent on their teams, or are they too self-sufficient?
In any case.. I don't see how Soldat is different from many other (including 3D) shooters - the concept is still the same - run, jump, aim, shoot. Every weapon has cons and pros, just like in any other game. I'm guessing what you mean is some sort of perks, attachments, or something along those lines that are becoming a standard lately? I, for one, wouldn't mind such things to be added to add another layer of depth, but I doubt this game's extremely conservative community will accept such change. Maybe, some day, in Soldat 2... 

[echo_trail]

I could never enjoy realism mode as much as regular. I'm not exactly on the bottom of Soldat things right now, but I dare say that realism still sucks. I can only imagine it being more fucked than the regular game.

[/]

What a conservative attitude. Change is progress, friend.

Realistic mode 4life!

[homerofgods]

I can think of 1 easy change that would help keep the explotions down.
Change the default number of nades from 3 to 2, but it seams people are afraid of that.

[ginn]

lets just add auto-aim and then maybe this guy will be happy.

1. Nades have limited range, it also makes your gun fire a few bullets off (if auto) and you'll have to adjust your aim, so you'll miss another few bullets.
2. You probably have no control over your movements anyway. If you're blasted away from a M79er, you just secured your "life". He won't beable to kill you from where you are now after that blast.
3. M79 is a really hard weapon, it got a fairly long reload time and you start without a bullet. You need way less skill to kill somebody with an auto than with M79. Seriously, the autos has gotten so much easier with the latest patch, I can't believe you still have issues vs M79ers.
4. Yes, barrett has been underpowered for a long time, but with the latest patch it's gotten quite useful in some situations.

Soldat isn't very newb friendly, it's hard to aim and to learn movements. I've been playing for a very long time, so I don't really remember that stage anymore.
But I had a friend who got interessted and wanted to learn, but it was just too hard to learn everything, so he lost interest and dropped the game.
To make it easier you'd have to change the whole game... and then it's not soldat. Your better off just playing another game.

[Antipathy]

I could never enjoy realism mode as much as regular. I'm not exactly on the bottom of Soldat things right now, but I dare say that realism still sucks. I can only imagine it being more fucked than the regular game.

[/]

What a conservative attitude. Change is progress, friend.

Realistic mode 4life!

Well, I can see that now that I was trying to come up with something to counterslash a retarded insult, and picked realistic as my victim.

Never really hated the gamemode. It fits occasionally. But I still think it's more often simply a downgrade from the original, regular mode. And put more effort into writing something yourself the next time you make a post.

lets just add auto-aim and then maybe this guy will be happy.

1. Nades have limited range, it also makes your gun fire a few bullets off (if auto) and you'll have to adjust your aim, so you'll miss another few bullets.
2. You probably have no control over your movements anyway. If you're blasted away from a M79er, you just secured your "life". He won't beable to kill you from where you are now after that blast.
3. M79 is a really hard weapon, it got a fairly long reload time and you start without a bullet. You need way less skill to kill somebody with an auto than with M79. Seriously, the autos has gotten so much easier with the latest patch, I can't believe you still have issues vs M79ers.
4. Yes, barrett has been underpowered for a long time, but with the latest patch it's gotten quite useful in some situations.

Soldat isn't very newb friendly, it's hard to aim and to learn movements. I've been playing for a very long time, so I don't really remember that stage anymore.
But I had a friend who got interessted and wanted to learn, but it was just too hard to learn everything, so he lost interest and dropped the game.
To make it easier you'd have to change the whole game... and then it's not soldat. Your better off just playing another game.

1. Indeed they have limited range and take time to throw. Still they're retarded. I'm not half bad with them myself if that's what you're thinking about. It breaks the point of the game to introduce a feature that is more useful at the killing business than the guns. It's lame to dodge a 1HK shot only to recieve a shower of nades after.

I know what's beautiful fucking simple perfection. Introduce bink to grenades. I know I just made you as mad as hell but think about it.

No no, don't think about how much it would ruin your favourite thing and how much I suck. Using grenades in this scenario would require more skill, tactical thought and situational awareness.


2. I can't be arsed to come up with a witty explanatory counterargument about my movement skills sucking, so here's a politician-type kind of "you can trust me" answer: I do, and I'm right.

However I do like to charge into the frenzy head on at full speed, which means I don't have enough time to be careful and avoid every single explosion. With big maps, it's less of a problem for me, but small and/or crowded maps tend to favor camping and other defensive play. This makes the game more ill suited for the way it was basically meant to be played. I'm not asking for much, just tone down the amount of push force you recieve from explosions. If you think this would ruin nade/M79 surfing, why not keep the amount of force recieved from your own nades the same?


3. True, the M79 is hard to use. Not when you're in close proximity of the enemy. You see, there's a certain distance from the enemy. When armed with a loaded M79 at a distance less from the enemy than this very certain distance, it becomes impossible for the enemy to survive - when you have succeeded to reach this distance, the enemy can do nothing but suck it up.

Imagine playing an FPS. You run around like a badass, killing shit. But oh god no, you see an enemy with the Gun. Jesus, shit, kill him fast - well too bad mother fucker, he just got within 50 feet of you and you automatically died. Maybe if you got better... but it's useless, there are plenty of times you just can't do jack shit.

I'm not saying the gun breaks the game. It's just lame. I say, introduce minimum range to the M79 and compensate by a slightly lower reload time and a buffed projectile speed. Well, a faster projectile would be a nerf since your silly ass would have to master the arc all over again. So let's not do that.


4. I don't measure guns by how useful they are. I measure guns by how lame they are. Barrett is a lame freak. So you see, it sucks.


As a side note I'm hardly a newcomer to this game. I was banging it hard core when you were in kindergarten.

I think the OP has some reasonable arguments.

Soldat is unique, and has a lot of balance issues build right into the core gameplay.

The zoom function is not what makes the sniper rifle broken, its the instant kill and it's effect on game flow. I say this without making any judgments on it's viability as a weapon.

But I don't have any answers either, fighting someone using a barrett and m79 can be fun. I think it's just that we want a reliable skill based game with more layers. Soldat doesn't offer that as much as some of us wish it did. When I first played soldat I played it hoping there was room for skill improvement on an individual level. Meaning I could just get very good at fighting and simply my skill alone would make me win. In soldat that just isnt the case. It's all about the team, and the flow of the fight. People can get very good at soldat, absolutely. But it isn't about their own fighting skill on an individual level. Since I've played a lot of fighting games competitively I naturally want more layers and options in soldat, so a good player simply couldn't die unless matched with someone his own skill level. I think a lot of people want this but the game does not allow it at it's core. Being a 2d shooter means a lot for a game, and I don't think people always realize this. There are not many ways a 2d shooter can even work in the first place. Look at Link-dead and read MM's frustration with it not working out throughout it's creation process.

Word. Although I do disagree with you on that players should never die unless outskilled. Boring games are those that do not have the slightest random factor in them.

[Qeve]

I just can't understand people who are saying m79 is lame, easy and noobish weapon and how easy it is to use... Can people tell me why everyone is not using only M79 and nades if those are certainly just so lame, easy and always sure kill in close distance?

[ginn]

Nades and weapons are about as good, sometimes it's better to not throw nades, because you want to keep your accuracy up instead (this is a must vs laggers who are more likely to eat than taking damage).

Minimi can kill in 9 bullets, so that's 1.2 seconds, obviously you might miss 2 or 3 bullets, so it becomes 1.8~ seconds. For somebody to get into nade range and throw the nade probably takes longer than that, especially if you count in bullet push.

Just because the game isn't the way you want it, doesn't mean it's broken. Rushing vs an M79er is a do or die tactic, better to just be lamer and kill him from a distance, after he's killed you can just take his M79 (example, up on voland).

If there were a problem with explosions and movement, I would probably have noticed it. Sure it might ruin your planned path and you'll have to rethink your plan, but it's not like you're completely fucked and crippled after it.

Barrett isn't lame... Autos are lamers weapon and 1hit kill are more bold. The hard thing with barrett is it's bink and movement acc and it's long fire interval, which means it's gonna be an "assassination" weapon. So, it's a great weapon to kill the efc, or at times going the alt rout with it (this is still hard because of bink).

[machina]

I can think of 1 easy change that would help keep the explotions down.
Change the default number of nades from 3 to 2, but it seams people are afraid of that.

All realistic servers keep with 2 nades... Explosions on Normal Mode aren't so powerful like on RM...

[McWise]

bugs.soldat.pl