Fixing spas (Normal mode)

[ginn]

The earlier threads were to full of shit, and this is more of a suggestion.

At the moment Spas is pretty much holding the game back, it's 2 hit kill (sometimes 1 hit kill), easy to aim and boosts you. Here's how to fix it.

The bullet spread should be 1.5x - 1.75x bigger. - Higher spread will make it do less damage from long range, but still being powerful in close range.
Remove all or almost all self bullet push. - There are other ways to move fast now. But spas self boost is too great and makes it almost as efficient but waaaay easier to use than using proper running techniques.


And a note, yes I do know what I'm talking about.
The gun doesn't add fun, it just makes the game more boring, you need virtually no skill at all to use it, and it covers too wide area of useability.

Desert eagles can be used for rushing instead, as they're pretty 'bad' to defend with (little reliability). While spas is great for defending and also great for rushing.


I would also suggest some things about minimi (it should be made into a new weapon, as it's just a lamer version of the AK).

[Bistoufly]

The bullet spread should be 1.5x - 1.75x bigger. - Higher spread will make it do less damage from long range, but still being powerful in close range.
Remove all or almost all self bullet push. - There are other ways to move fast now. But spas self boost is too great and makes it almost as efficient but waaaay easier to use than using proper running techniques.

Right on spot!
These are the 2 things that make spaz users so annoying.
I totally agree with these suggestions.

[Tekidek]

I agree with the suggestions. Spas should be strictly close ranged, but it is very reliable at medium (almost long) distances, and helps at flag running (you boost yourself, and shoot  your chasers at the same time)

But leave Minimi alone. For me, it's an alternative auto for AK: the AK is TOO precise for an auto, reloads faster and has good damage.
The Minimi has more MoveAcc, more bullets (and reloads every incarnation slowly) but isn't THAT precise and has slighty less damage than AK.

I prefer Minimi because the bullets spread more. Neither too much nor too little.

[homerofgods]

I'm a spaz user, and right now I can't come up with a good use for the self bullet push other then to do boostrunning. What was the oroginal thought behind it? To make it more realistic I guess.. But why not just remove it from both spaz and minigun?

[Vucgy92]

Stadard mode Spas suck you need 2 full hits to kill it so poor and weak that in Standard mode you cant see any spaser's .
Make its spread much bigger about 1.75 even 2.00 or so but add that spas can kill with one shoot at close !!!!

Your talking about spas boost is totally stupid everyone who use proper running n' jumping is faster than the spas who lose its mobility by turning its back to shoot spas

+ The back-blast is a disadvantage it makes spas players "stop" after a shoot and not allowing them to run and shoot they way trough masses of enemy's

Your talking isn't based on skill its based on spas hate and about removing the spas you should go and shot yourself in the eye.

[Overkill]

I never die to spas...unless they get a nice shot upclose. Oh wait thats what it is for, I think the fact they took one bullet really hindered the weapon!

Only people that really are an advocate for spas is D4sh and he has been using it before and when it isn't overpowered.

Cause you don't seem to realize that if they are boosting they arent aiming at you so you get first shots and than you can get away from them by simply backing away, and also factor in that further you go they have to guess where you are goin....so you shouldnt usually go the most or do the most obvious decision since they are prolly aiming there.

Next you almost never see anyone use spas in cws except if they are defending a narrow area so you take this into consideration and jus spray them down a spasr also is prone to passing so you can even skip them..(note: that you will prolly have to face them later or you can jus taunt or inform your team and kill the spaser). I think the spas atm is quite underpowered but is good cause its used for what its suppose to be used for.

But on some maps it can annoy you like Division, or any close range map really like equinox if they are defending base. But thats what its used for...jus rush the rusher and nade them in the face its that easy or jus pre nade. Idk jus my opinion but spasz dont really trouble me..instead of a few who are great players and would do good with any weapon they use..


EDIT: A Spas is a shotgun i hope you guys all know this...cause if you think in your head that a shotgun close to upclose range shouldnt 1 shot you, or blow you to kingdomcome  ..than idk what you are on but i want to try it..

[ginn]

@Overkill
gj reading the OP... spas is a shot gun, not a long distance gun. increasing the bullet spread makes it worse in long range, not close range.
I don't know what cws you've been playing but... spas is always used, in every map. tbh, I don't think we've had any play offs match that didn't have a spaser in it.

@Vucgy92
Using proper running costs A LOT of aiming time, and MOST don't run fast, or doesn't even know how to run fast... Turning around to self boost is so much easier and so efficient. It's also popular and good enough to not need the self-boost.

@Vucgy92 and Overkill
lol at wanting it to kill in 1 hit... atm it kills in 0.65 seconds.
If you aren't playing "competitively" you probably have no idea what you're talking about. In publics M79 and Barrett dominates... but that really isn't happening in the competitive scene.


Spas removes the whole point of DE (and no, making DE super OP isn't a very good solution).
Autos got too short reload time, making them too reliable without any drawbacks at all.

Solution: Nerf spas in the way I said. +45~ reload time to all autos. Transform Minimi into another weapon (Maybe a 15 bullet, 4-5 fireinterval "Uzi" or something).

[Vucgy92]

@Vucgy92
Using proper running costs A LOT of aiming time, and MOST don't run fast, or doesn't even know how to run fast... Turning around to self boost is so much easier and so efficient. It's also popular and good enough to not need the self-boost.

No you dont play enough Soldat to see that and Spas boost is ok and should stay so

@Vucgy92 and Overkill
lol at wanting it to kill in 1 hit... atm it kills in 0.65 seconds.
If you aren't playing "competitively" you probably have no idea what you're talking about. In publics M79 and Barrett dominates... but that really isn't happening in the competitive scene.

Yes 0.65 sec to death on 5 meters but if the spread would 2x  bigger it wouldn kill you on med-long like it happens.

Spas removes the whole point of DE (and no, making DE super OP isn't a very good solution).
Autos got too short reload time, making them too reliable without any drawbacks at all.

Solution: Nerf spas in the way I said. +45~ reload time to all autos. Transform Minimi into another weapon (Maybe a 15 bullet, 4-5 fireinterval "Uzi" or something).

You must be crazy  to choise to remove Minimi any change on it that i would set 70ammo cause 50Minimi and 40 AK74  (ak faster reload more dmg) looks like ak74 got a bigger suppression fire then the lmg Minimi

[ginn]

Minimi has higher DPS, but AK is more accurate. atm minimi is just a weapon you never run out of ammo with, and still killing pretty fast.

@Vucgy92
Using proper running costs A LOT of aiming time, and MOST don't run fast, or doesn't even know how to run fast... Turning around to self boost is so much easier and so efficient. It's also popular and good enough to not need the self-boost.

No you dont play enough Soldat to see that and Spas boost is ok and should stay so

Sadly, I do play enough.
Spas is very popular, especially with better players.

@Vucgy92 and Overkill
lol at wanting it to kill in 1 hit... atm it kills in 0.65 seconds.
If you aren't playing "competitively" you probably have no idea what you're talking about. In publics M79 and Barrett dominates... but that really isn't happening in the competitive scene.

Yes 0.65 sec to death on 5 meters but if the spread would 2x  bigger it wouldn kill you on med-long like it happens.

I didn't suggest 2x though, with 50% more spread it'd still be ok at mid range, however, DE's would become an option.

Spas removes the whole point of DE (and no, making DE super OP isn't a very good solution).
Autos got too short reload time, making them too reliable without any drawbacks at all.

Solution: Nerf spas in the way I said. +45~ reload time to all autos. Transform Minimi into another weapon (Maybe a 15 bullet, 4-5 fireinterval "Uzi" or something).

You must be crazy  to choise to remove Minimi any change on it that i would set 70ammo cause 50Minimi and 40 AK74  (ak faster reload more dmg) looks like ak74 got a bigger suppression fire then the lmg Minimi

Even though I think skoskav did a great job with the wm, Minimi probably still remains as the most popular weapon, together with mp5.
Increasing the reload time by an average of 45 ticks (relative to the current reload time) would make autos have a bit of a draw back for that big clip, instead of almost reloading as fast as the semis.

[Mittsu]

Minimi has higher DPS, but AK is more accurate. atm minimi is just a weapon you never run out of ammo with, and still killing pretty fast.

how is ak more accurate than minimi?

edit: nevermind, i can see movementacc is higher for minimi, i had something else in mind

[Overkill]

Ginn if you watched the playoff games that you even streamed...the spas was never used by LoD and IN. Also the only map i really see spas used on are maps that makes sense, like Ash for mid and top (since mid you are close range and top you get a clear advantage), Division like i already explained, Death2 mid or low (mid close range again and low you dont really have any escape routes) could use it top but sprayin is a way better option. Cause its only more popular in R/S jus cause its once again a shotgun that should kill in those shots.

Also Ginn i think you are takin into affect good players who can get headshots to upper body shots more than normal players, plus they kno how the weapon works and close distance. Cause i never see spas used unless its used for a reason that makes sense, defending, boosting flag bot on blade, like your justification of sayin its op doesnt make sense. Jus cause you die to it fast....aug kills fast so does hk. Like plus if you ask any hardcore spas user they kno that the removal of that one bullet is really a big deal.

Jus the fact of them having to close distance also puts you into an advantage, the only thing a spaser has to defend that is nades n a shot...which if you didnt realize once again that should kill you at any range. So idk please show me stats or something cause spas usage has gone down tremendously. Only spasers in the competitive scence are... Berni, d4sh, Kenix, Chaky, Eragon, Timmeh, Vegas and maybe 2 more others. Most use ruger aug hk and minimi since once again tho the spas is a great weapon they are prone to pass jus cause of distance and angles...and you can't nerf a weapon cause people are good and can kill everyone with this or any weapon they pick up. Cause if you ask me the people you name even if you nerf it unless its to complete hell would still do good with it.

The rest of the spas usage is used by people who use it jus for fun or not in cw's or anything at all unless for defending or boostin flag. Which i feel it was clearly here for! MESSAGE: Jus like the minigun is used for  surfing or extreme rushing *hint*hint* -_-


P.s DE is a viable option...it counters ak and minimi users highly, also it kills in 2 shots to 3 or 4 but its unreliable jus like ruger! But good ones nade which makes it one shot like i dont get what you are saying ginn...or tryin to say.