Discussion: Infinity

[Mangled*]

∞

So I think it's about time we discussed infinity.

This will not be a continuation of the previous topic that was unjustly snuffed out by a cowardly moderator who apprently doesn't think forums should be used for discussion.

I treat "infinity" in much the same way I treat "random" in that they are both conceptual rather than actual. There is yet to be found any thing that is actually identifiable as being infinite or random. Random is a concept of explaining a chaotic state that is too complicated to be predicted with the means that we have, whilst infiniity is a concept of explaining an endless quantitative nature of something.

Would you agree with these definitions?

[Smegma]

Not completely. With your definition of random, it has a clause built in that automatically allows you to state that there is no such actual random event. I believe that it can be possible for truly random events to occur, I also believe with our current knowledge, these events occur all the time. I also agree that it is possible we merely looking at it "incorrectly". Such that there is a different system which eliminates any random elements and gives a more robust description of our perceived reality.

I feel about infinity in the same way. I don't feel there is any actual reason to believe infinity cannot actualize itself in certain cases.

[Mangled*]

I suppose some would argue that the roll of a die (or two dice, if you like) could be labelled as random from a simplistic perception. If you were able to calculate the velocity and inertia and the angular momentum and the dampenning and the friction and the loss of energy per impact on the tabletop etc... it wouldn't really be random, just chaotic in complexity. I suppose from a literal perspective you could argue that that is what random means? I don't know enough about radioactive decay to use that as an example of random, otherwise I probably would.

I feel the purest definition would be something that happened without a cause. Perhaps the expansion of the universe was the only true random event? Is there a more appropriate word for that?

[Smegma]

I also don't mean to speak on any of these subjects like an expert, but I will. Radioactive decay is basically governed by quantum mechanics, which (while debated) for all we know appears random in that we cannot precisely predict when events will occur, and it would appear to us that it is not due to unknown information.

I know I'm walking on a tight rope with chaos theory with my definition, but random would need to have some quality of not being able to predict outcomes accurately due to some cause. I mean, it can technically have a cause, but this cause just causes a outcome which was occurs as likely as some other event, or can occur differently.  Its a bit rough and not really well-defined, but I am only putting so much thought into this at the moment while doing a few other things.

[croat1gamer]

Just simple thikering.
Think of a number line:
-∞, -1, 0, 1, ∞
Now, if youd ask me, in the case that you come to the "infinity point" starting from 0, but proceed going forward instead of stopping, you will proceed to -∞ and go back towards -1.
Like its sign: ∞, or lets say a Möbius strip.

As a definition, id just pick that it is a substitute for an numerical/quantifiable amount that is uncountable at the time being. I could pull off an analogy with "i" being the substitute for the square root of -1.

Similarly with the "random" state, which would be a state of an event that is not predictable. Now, the more you know about the preceding matters that cause a certain state will decrease the randomness, as it isnt really a state, but more a placeholder which stands for the lack of predictable outcomes.

[croat1gamer]

Also, division by 0 results ∞

[iDante]

Moss is entirely right about radioactive decay. Much of the quantum world follows similar patterns. In essence, all that we can predict on a quantum level is various probabilities. As far as we can tell, God plays dice.

Also, division by 0 results ∞

No, it really doesn't.
Think about it like this:
x/y=z => x=y*z
Let x=1, and y=0. What number z will make 1=0*z? None. Even infinity times zero is zero. So we call it undefined and we stay away from division by zero. Division by an infinitesimal results in infinity.

An interesting thought experiment about infinity: Hilbert's Hotel

[Horve]

it's conceptual

[Smegma]

it's conceptual

So are a lot of things, doesn't mean they are not real.