Oldat

[Prisma]

Maybe they are similar, but I like this one more than Evolved (I am using it myself at the moment). So I will download yours! Good Job ;o

[The Red Guy]

Still, I like PapaSurf's version better. GJ

[PapaSurf]

OH SHI-

Hehe, These ARE MZ's weapons except for m4 and 1911.  The main point was to show off those two since they don't fit so much in MZ's defaults so I changed the colors around a bit and edited some pixels.  Gotta have respect for his style, but mine's pretty different (m249 and chainsaw is diff too)

 I also resent any claims where I have stolen from MZ's work in the past.  While this time is arguable (forgot to post major kudos to MZ in the topic), in the past he and I have been working at the same time completely unrelatedly and happened to do the same thing, ala the first Neo Soldat.  The 2nd one...maybe...

I guess you can say i took his ideas and tried to improve/put my own personal twist on them, and if you're offended by that, I'm sorry.  I was really inspired by his mod that I wanted to make one of my own, and many of his wepaons were in the perfect proprtions.  However, every single color and pixels on those guns are hand placed by me.  You will not find ANY that match his, unless out of pure coincidence.

Main topic changed to give massive creds to MZ.  I'd like to see what he says tho.

Thx for the coments.  Gimme some ideas for the LAW.

EDIT: gostek and weapons gfx are going to completely different.  Anna, I thought you knew me better

[Toumaz]

That chainsaw is at least a lot more awesome than the one in Evolved. Think it's time for me to mix in stuff from another mod yet again.

Ain't saying that ripping stuff off others is a good thing to do tho'... well, I'm waiting for MZ's response to this before I'll start flaming everybody.

[cooz]

yeah, MZ should post here so all those flames started by one person wouldn't appear

...anyone else want to play lawyers?

[toRch]

and where is the dl 

[PapaSurf]

OOh, I actually didn't see Anna's .gif.

Admittedly, they are much more similar than i had originally intended.  The ak and barrett in particular   She has a right to be angry with me, cause if i had seen them, I would have thought the same thing.  However, I think the differences between them are substantial enough

Still, I'm standing by the fact that I'm not trying to steal anyone's work.  Lack of credit to Michal is a fault on my part, but I think he would understand (c'mon prove me right).

No DL link.  I'm not done and if MZ wants me to discontinue, I'll never finish it.

I'd also like to cite the Neo-Arsenal topic.  You can see my style evolving there, as well as a good example that I really don't need to steal other people's work (not to be cocky, but some here say mine is better).  Designs for many of my weapons featured in this mod are there, and you can see how they are as similar to these new ones as Michal's are.  Also, the date on that one predates his Evolved release.

[..::HHH::..]

we all know you wouldn't steal someone mod.. dont worry. they look alike in the pixel way, but the texture is all different:)
i hope you finish it, and release it:)


 btw: you sig: "the root of all evil" .. do you like dream theater?

[PapaSurf]

<3 Dream Theater. I'm not really big on metal bands, but I like DT's progressive stuff.  That and I'd suck dick to get a Continuum.

[..::HHH::..]

cool! dream theater is my passion in life:D and i didn't notice you avatar until now:P

[cooz]

hmm, even though it's mod of MZ's work,
i think those slight changes made it looks better in my opinion
good job PapaSurf


... me still waits for MZ post here

[Anna]

Here's a classic - the fists from Neo-Soldat and Soldat Evolved:


Many of the other Neo-Soldat weapons look like the outlines were taken from Soldat Evolved and modified, then coloured by PapaSurf.

Neo-Soldat: [1]
Soldat Evolved: [1] [2]

[n00bface]

This topic is ridiculous.  It's obvious Michal ripped Papasurf off and then went back in time to release it before PS to discredit his efforts.  Absolutely pathetic, I can't believe I used to respect you.  You are a good weapon and map maker, Michal, but this is a new low.

It's a good thing there's only so many ways you can draw a single weapon in Soldat, so they hardly look plagiarized.  I like Papasurf's original better, but I'll admit that Michal's modification to Papasurf's chainsaw came out looking good.

[xtishereb]

While the similarities between the latest EVO mod and Oldat are substantial in some cases (AK, Barrett), the more you look, the more you notice small differences. (AK forestock, Barrett bipod) I looked closely at the M4s by both authors and confirmed it's an original weapon by PapaSurf. (I can provide a .gif if you want.)
...geez, I really don't know what to say. This is too much drama for me.

In any case, credit has been given to MZ, and he has been cited as a major influence. Let's not make any judgments without hearing from MZ first.

Copying of fists is entirely possible. Soldat Evolved was released 2 months before Neo-Soldat.

[Anna]

I'm not saying the weapons are an exact copy. My point is that PapaSurf has been ripping off MZ's work and has made no acknowledgement of it until after it was explicitly pointed out. (He "forgot" to credit him. Yeah, right.) Like I said, drawing over someone else's painstakingly crafted pixel art doesn't count as original work. The fact that some of you like PapaSurf's version better doesn't justify the fact that this is plagiarism.

[mar77a]

Anna, I admit I hacked your computer and stole Polyworks source to write NAGatherBot, sorry ;(

On a more serious note, I agree with n00bface. And Papasurf is great at this steal & improve mods, so let him do it.

[MZ]

Yeah its pretty obvious that most of the weapons were copied and then given a few outline, shading and hue changes...

I can tell by the pixels 

Firstly I use a very limited pallete with not many shades, thats why the shading doesnt look so smooth or blurry like with most other modders. It's no coincidence that the shading intervals are the same in both works.

Also, I use some very specific patterns for shading, for example when I wish to "roughen" an area I place the pixels in a "darker-darker-lighter-darker-lighter-lighter..." pattern. This pattern is still evident on some of the weapons in the same places as in EVO for example the ruger front handguard area.

The outlines are clearly mine, slightly modified. Papasurf likes to square off the barrels and add on a few other changes. I also have a very specific scale and style for outlines, I have yet to see another modder make it similar on their own.

Anyways Papasurf, I think you should further develop your own pixel art style. Your first Neo Soldat was pretty unique, apart from a few outlines. It had a nice dark "gritty" look.

You should try and improve upon your own style, not on mine

[Vltava]

Firstly I use a very limited pallete with not many shades, thats why the shading doesnt look so smooth or blurry like with most other modders. It's no coincidence that the shading intervals are the same in both works.

Also, I use some very specific patterns for shading, for example when I wish to "roughen" an area I place the pixels in a "darker-darker-lighter-darker-lighter-lighter..." pattern. This pattern is still evident on some of the weapons in the same places as in EVO for example the ruger front handguard area.

You're right, MZ, with the exception of the quoted; I use a limited palette and the same dithering style (depending on the difference between the colors, of course) for my weapons, and I don't believe it can be used to justify anything.

Err, a comment about the actual weapons now; the clip on the AK doesn't resemble wood much with so much red (it's looking a bit violet). Also, that has got to be the best MP5 I have ever seen.

[PapaSurf]

If you want, I could post the palette I used for making this.  It's fully my own.  Not a single color is yours.

I'm honestly not trying to pass of any MZ's work as my own.  I'll admit that my style has come to resemble his, but I can see a lot of differences.  In addition to the things MZ mentioned, which are mostly true, I'm a bit more contrasted with my colors.

-You use double wide pixels a lot and hand made gradients.  I might have stolen style techniques from you, but I don't think it's fair to say I stole your art. 

-For wooden parts, you dither colors and make it look rough, which as a technique, I adopted, but didn't make it like yours at all.   and for barrels, you do an AAABABBBCBCCCDCDDDED...etc. for some things such as the Ruger.  I actually developed that on my own.

-As for scale, you can see that many of my weapons follow the same scale you use, purely out of coincidence.  Citing the Neo-Arsenal topic, many of those weapons would fit into your mods size and shape wise.  With some coloring and shading changes, they'd look like they belonged from the beginning.

In response to Anna, I don't try to steal MZ's work.  The fist thing was my mistake.  I was rushing to get that mod out and just took a shortcut, hoping no one would notice.  There's a probably a lot of shortcuts in those earlier mods, but in no way would I call it plagiarism.  Even now, not that I'm trying to cover my ass here, but forgetting to mention MZ was an honest mistake.  If you don't believe me fine, but I think from the time you've known me that I don't support stealing other people's work.

[Wraithlike]

It's kind of funny how MZ is not taking this as badly as ther people are, even though its his weapons that are allegedly being imitated.

No matter, Papasurf, your weapons are quite nice. I hope to see this finished so I can use it to replace the soldat defaults. (Which I've replaced with Michal's for now )