Here we go again..

[GAMEOVER]

Where did the current beta ini come from? That is awful. You totally ruin AK with its damage, etc, this is supose to be the strongest auto in the game. The Aug becomes dominant with + everything - nothing. And tell me, what is it with Ruger the weapon gets shafted more and more every version. Not that many people use it now as it is compared to auto users expecially in the clan scene adding more bink to a weapon thats already greatly effected by it. I want to see a balance not all weapons put on a 10+ way scale with 1 or 2 weapons taking up all the weight.

Who are the beta testers that are coming up with the balance? Do they have quite a bit of 1.3.1 expierence in the clan, league, etc scenes? I understand its beta but not too many people look here. If I didnt say nothing now im sure lots of unheard voices that would want to be heard when it was too late would have lots to say. Look at the last two versions. Stop shafting the same ol' weapons and make a solid balance.

--edit
I was going to keep this post to what was above the edit line but felt I needed to elaborate more. Beta testers. Make a simple chart of balances that were extremely popular and appluaded. Take balances from the top 2 and try to incorporate them in the next version, im not saying completely mock them just keep that concensus in mind. Now look at the current form of the game. Ever since 1.2.1 and maybe before some weapons have been reduced as every version comes. Its time to add back something to generate more interest in them and stop slaming the hell out of em. Bottem line right now is this is a mostly auto dominated game in the clan scene. Im not saying shaft autos because I hope you dont but give semis some "kick" to them again. Make the Minigun useable drop the startup time on the Minigun while leaving everything else the same. Add something to deagles without taking away from it overall (same for ruger). Dont increase mov acc or bink on Ruger its already severely effected by autos in game. Bring the old saw back. Drop the law wait time or reduce it (same for knife reduce). I say this in all in hopes to see a really balanced version. I dont care about any one weapon ill use whats best for the given situation. You mess up some weapons (like you will with the current beta ini) your not going to have an 8+ weapon game your going to have a 2 to 3 weapon game and I as well as all the rest will take full advantage of the 2 to 3 weapons that do well. With all that said I hope to see a balance, I really dont want to post in this section no more but this needed to be said. I hope to run into many different weapon users with the next balance otherwise ill see you all next version where we can use the same 2 to 3 or w/e weapons and forget about the rest because their useless.

[Demonic]

Hey hey. I appreciate that an actual, non beta-testing clanner guy posts here. But I think you managed to download the wrong weapons.ini :\ If you downloaded the one in the .zip, you did wrong... that's been out dated and us moderators can't remove it.( Edit: I just did, I'm a penis genius ) The real balance is this one.

Otherwise, rest assured: the spearhead of the beta testers are clanning people (Outcast, DSlayer, Skoskav, ramirez, Vv00t, Taxi, maka and myself...), so we're not doing this to **** everything up. Skoskav isn't making this alone, he's just the guy compiling the .ini, so we don't have 23 balances in circulation, thus confusing MM wtf to do.

Also, applauded for calling in the guys from the fractured forum.

You forgot me so I added myself to the list - Out

[JudgeMan]

I'm not gonna post anything big right now cause it's 5:34am so..

In my opinion, Soldat is too sow right now. Takes so much time killing people.  Evey gun have been weakened add to that non-registering problems and it's quite bad.  You don't see much triple with ONE clip and NO nade these days.. 

You can't rush ennemies at full speed and killing them at the same time.  You just end up passing them cause your gun doesn't kill fast enough.  Use m79 you say?  They're just gonna *fly back up + spray* /repeat until you die (THAT slows the gameplay.).  Use barret you say?  I ain't no barret expert but from what I know, it's really harder to make a shot when you're moving fast.  Ruger, same thing I would say.  Spas' gonna slow you down, ruining your full speed rush OR boost you w/o killing them cause you pass them way too fast.

So what I'm saying is: BOOST THE GUNS!  FAST IS FUN!

Make them so I can die faster to spawn back and go out to kill faster.

Meh, I ended up writting quite a bit... bah

PS:  In that current wep.ini,  ruger reloads faster than HK!?!  Like....uuhhh what?

[S4R]

The only thing that needs changing, in my opinion, is the minigun, make it useful (if you havn't already). I mean come on, everyone knows it's the best weapon ever. But noone ever uses it because it takes all 100 bullets to kill someone, and grenades. I think the minigun should not bink as fast, or the bullets should not spread out as much. Keep them in a tight grouping, not a group like the aug or ak, but better than now.

[a-4-year-old]

law and knife got totally fucked over in the 1.3 nerfings, people said yes, people said no, and we have tried this "throw like a grenade" stuff, and it really sucks balls, the knife lacks enough speed to kill with one hit quite often, it takes so long to throw, and you get killed before you even let the damn thing go at full speed.

I have never seen a player use the grenade-like throwing as an advantage, they just wait until it is automatically released or close enough to full power and let it fly.

The law totally blows, as a 1 hit kill, it is always just used as spray/fodder and thrown away after, lowering the reload isn't really worth it when you can just pick up an m79 that does the same stuff after throwing it away, just ditch the start up time, or lower it by at least half.

The Ak-74 is also being nerfed beyond belief, i have not seen anyone use the Ak-74 for any long period of time before just switching to the Aug, lowering the damage to make the shots more worthless does not help this at all, the Ak would just be used as spray, it only has 1 more damage then the mp5, more bink longer reload more movement Acc higher fire interval, and less then 100 speed more. It blows.

The m79 doesn't have any significant changes, -3 speed and -5 bink, around 20 less then the spas, it will still do lethal damage to someone with one of the new and downgraded autos, and it will still destroy all in small maps where there isn't enough space to get away.

This new beta looks like the betatesters didn't do anything but put some bink into most of the weapons. This beta does not seem balanced at all.

[Mancer]

Though these lists are generic, and I must have posted one of them hundreds of times, this is my view on the weapons:

Deagles: Needs to be stronger. Nothing else, just stronger.

Mp5: Needs a longer reload and less damage.

Steyr: Needs more bink, and possibly more Movementacc, depends on how well the added bink works. Nothing else.

Ak74: ROF needs to go down, and damage needs to slightly go down.

Spas: Needs no change.

Ruger77: Needs no change.

M79: No damage changes, just a longer reload. A lot longer.

Barrett: Needs no change.

Minime: Needs no change.

Minigun: Get rid of selfbink, or make it occur at like 70 bullets in or something. Selfbink and its low damage = the death of the minigun. Needs to be made into a real, usable weapon this version.

Socom: A little less strength.

Knife: Needs no change.

Chainsaw: Give it like 300 reload, and make it so it actually kills when you touch someone and its fine. (possibly adding the hit radius bigger, or making the ROF faster so theres more chances a hit will register when you try to cut someone up.)

Law: Less reload. The 6 seconds is painstakingly long for a game like Soldat. 4 should be enough.

Grenades: Theres just so many problems with them, but my solution, and I think, the absolutly best solution to fix grenades is to make the ROF longer. So you cant throw 4 grenades in under .5 seconds. Im talking about the time it takes to throw a grenade be lengthened. Now you actually have to AIM with grenades instead of spamming them and getting a cheap kill.



This list is a cultivation of the last year in 1.3.1, so when I post these, I post with accuracy in my opinions.

[ultraman]

Nice job on nerfing the AK. Looks good other than that, but I think the Ruger didn't need the damage up.

[Extacide]

I'm going to follow Mancer's lead in posting my opinion of each gun. I however, agree with Judgeman in every aspect that the game is too slow now. It wouldn't hurt to go back to the 1.2.1 balance and start over from there. It would make alot of Soldat players happy, and bring back a lot of the older vets that quit.

Anyways,


Deagles: More damage, slightly faster reload, anything to improve this gun.

Mp5: Longer reload.

Steyr: Less damage off screen.

Ak74: Nothing, maybe slower rate of fire.

Spas: Nothing.

Ruger77: Nothing.

M79: Longer reload, and possibly a recoil effect upon shooting like what the Spas has, even shorter range too. One issue I see with this gun and I do this all the time with M79, is that I can charge through a whole clan and just fire off an m79, grab the flag, and boost out with no problem, thanks to a quick reload, no bink, easy hits and a powerful rush speed to do it all.

Barrett: Nothing.

Minime: Nothing.

Minigun: More damage or less self bink. =/ I know Michal will never remove this gun but if its going to stay, make it useful. Its about as useful as a primary as fists are as a secondary.

Socom: Less damage, or slower rate of fire.

Knife: If not for getting rid of the ridiculous delay which destroyed this secondary as a quick pull out, at least increase the speed at which it throws. A knife at full winded up speed in 1.3.1 is much slower then a knife was in 1.2.1. The beta testers say that it is the same, but they do NOT move at the same speed, and regardless of this it needs a speed boost to be at least somewhat useful again; as useful as the other secondaries anyways.

Chainsaw: Agreed with mancer on this one, the RoF on this gun needs a serious boost to increase its chance of register. Its a 50/50 to kill someone on a pointblank saw. You could even stand on top of a person with your saw in his face for 5 seconds before it finally kills them. =/

Law: I'm fine with the delay but...it seems a bit bugged? Like, every 1/5 shots the law has a tendency to fire at different delay times, ranging from .6 seconds to 1.7 seconds, and its very frustrating when you line up a shot to find your LAW wont fire on time.

Grenades: 100% agreed, the rate at which you can throw grenades needs to go down. I suggested this in the past and since now this is the best time to bring it back up again, grenades need their own rate of fire and they need it nerfed. The only thing that slows down a person from dropping his grenades in milliseconds is his gostek animating it.

[ZWZ]

M79: Longer reload, and possibly a recoil effect upon shooting like what the Spas has, even shorter range too. One issue I see with this gun and I do this all the time with M79, is that I can charge through a whole clan and just fire off an m79, grab the flag, and boost out with no problem, thanks to a quick reload, no bink, easy hits and a powerful rush speed to do it all.

You can add all the recoil you want, it only shoots one bullet every 6 seconds, it won't make a difference. Also, it sounds like you play agained some really unskilled people in ctf. If you put a longer reload on the m79 you might as well change the name to the law :\

[mar77a]

Socom is overpowered, Barret is overbinked. Rest of the weapons are fine, except maybe Steyr is too fast. Also, I disagree with Extacide, Minigun can take out any weapon in the right situation.


Also, do you realise that this weapon balance changes are simply "a bit here, a bit there", maybe if you think about it, the balance is fine and you (we?) are actually doing slight modifications because "in that one time" or "once this happened to me...".

[GAMEOVER]

Socom is not over powered, think of it like this mar77a. Look at all the secondarys. All offer fast killing compared to the Socom. The Socom at best is a cleanup weapon and it still will take the majority of the clip for almost all players to clean up with it. Not too many players use it now as it is so why mess with it.

My bad for downloading the wrong .ini.

As for saying power up the semis I stand buy it still if other weapons are getting increases. If other weapons are not then keep them the same.

I still would like  to see a no wait minigun..

Bring the old saw back and youll bring the older sawers back probably.

[truup]

Well.. Ppl say that DEagles are underpowered, and autos dominate. Well, that's why the DEagle's power was increased, while autos' power was decreased, and that results with DEagles are now overpowered... They really are too powerful imo, and they are going to be the most used weapons in 1.3.2, just like it was at 1.2.1.

Another thing is that beta testers + others thinks like "It's just +1 damage that doesn't matter", well, maybe it's just a small number, but the result matters.

3rd thing is that I think that beta testers/weapon balance makers doesn't give a shit about ppl's opinion, they are just defending their balance.

But hey, I have found the bright side of this balance:

-Saw is now a lot better, with increased clip. It just works better for me ;o

-I really don't use Socom much, but I think it's pretty overpowered compared to other secondary weapons, for example, if you are good with socom, and your enemy sucks with his primary weapon (in most cases it's enough that you're good with socom), it is easy to nail all the enemies, but if you are using knife, you can have only 1 kill (in most cases), with saw you need to go very close, and with law you can do only that one kill, so it's good that it's power was decreased.

Well, just my opinions, what do they matter anyway..

[mar77a]

Socom is not over powered, think of it like this mar77a. Look at all the secondarys. All offer fast killing compared to the Socom. The Socom at best is a cleanup weapon and it still will take the majority of the clip for almost all players to clean up with it. Not too many players use it now as it is so why mess with it.

If you increase it's power it will be able to defeat any primary. That's my point of view. Socom (as well as other secondaries) are meant to finish of players, not to be used as primaries.

[GAMEOVER]

Im not saying increase it im just saying dont take away from it.

Well.. Ppl say that DEagles are underpowered, and autos dominate. Well, that's why the DEagle's power was increased, while autos' power was decreased, and that results with DEagles are now overpowered... They really are too powerful imo, and they are going to be the most used weapons in 1.3.2, just like it was at 1.2.1.

Your wrong, lots of known deagle users have left the game, lots that used them dont anymore, deagles are a rareity right now and deffinatly one of the most unpopular current weapons.

Another thing is that beta testers + others thinks like "It's just +1 damage that doesn't matter", well, maybe it's just a small number, but the result matters.

One point itself is no biggie but if you hit that thresh hold where a +1 could make the difference between 10-11 bullets or 14-15 making a kill then it can make a difference for obvious reload reasons. I dont think we need to worry about it.

3rd thing is that I think that beta testers/weapon balance makers doesn't give a **** about ppl's opinion, they are just defending their balance.

You obviously dont know who they are. I asked and found out who they were alot of them are dedicated clan scene vet and/or pro players who know the game. So dont be worried about that either.

-I really don't use Socom much, but I think it's pretty overpowered compared to other secondary weapons, for example, if you are good with socom, and your enemy sucks with his primary weapon (in most cases it's enough that you're good with socom), it is easy to nail all the enemies, but if you are using knife, you can have only 1 kill (in most cases), with saw you need to go very close, and with law you can do only that one kill, so it's good that it's power was decreased.

Your point is invalid right there because you have no expierence with it. Other secondary weapons will kill way faster then a socom. Like I said before its a clean up weapon that hardly gets used right now compared to the rest so why mess with it. If you keep throwing every little thing in there sometimes without even knowing the facts your taking away from the beta testers time and patience with the rest of the settings that do need attn.

Well, just my opinions, what do they matter anyway..

Saying nothing is worse then saying something. MM relies on the community for feedback to an extent. If everyone thought like that then the game would develop to its full potential.

[Morik]

I agree with Mancer's Balance, except add:

Law: A little less delay

Minigun: Somehow it needs to be viable, but somehow not be the most annoying weapon in the game. When the next version is released, everyone will be like: "Hey, cool, the minigun is viable!". But after awhile this statement will change into, "Damn, thats the most annoying gun in the world".

[truup]

Your wrong, lots of known deagle users have left the game, lots that used them dont anymore, deagles are a rareity right now and deffinatly one of the most unpopular current weapons.

No, I was talking about from 1.2.1 to 1.3, like I said, it's more powerful in 1.3.2 than 1.3.1.

You obviously dont know who they are. I asked and found out who they were alot of them are dedicated clan scene vet and/or pro players who know the game. So dont be worried about that either.

I do know them, I have played a lot with them. In my opinion, they are supposed to listen to players, and base the balance a bit on it. Well, it might be that Im the only one who thinks that deagles are owerpowered? Of course they won't change it if only one says they're overpowered.

Your point is invalid right there because you have no expierence with it. Other secondary weapons will kill way faster then a socom. Like I said before its a clean up weapon that hardly gets used right now compared to the rest so why mess with it. If you keep throwing every little thing in there sometimes without even knowing the facts your taking away from the beta testers time and patience with the rest of the settings that do need attn.

Looks like you didn't understand what I wrote. Yes the other 2nd weapons kills a lot faster, but you can kill more enemies with socom, while you can usually kill only 1 player with other weapons. Like you said, it's meant to be a "clean-up weapon", so it doesn't need much power, and that's why I see it good that it's power was decreased.

Saying nothing is worse then saying something. MM relies on the community for feedback to an extent. If everyone thought like that then the game would develop to its full potential.

Like I said, I feel like beta testers wont listen to me. Again, maybe it's just because Im the only one who thinks like that.

Kthxbye

[papercut]

I'm not gonna post anything big right now cause it's 5:34am so..

In my opinion, Soldat is too sow right now. Takes so much time killing people.  Evey gun have been weakened add to that non-registering problems and it's quite bad.  You don't see much triple with ONE clip and NO nade these days.. 

You can't rush ennemies at full speed and killing them at the same time.  You just end up passing them cause your gun doesn't kill fast enough.  Use m79 you say?  They're just gonna *fly back up + spray* /repeat until you die (THAT slows the gameplay.).  Use barret you say?  I ain't no barret expert but from what I know, it's really harder to make a shot when you're moving fast.  Ruger, same thing I would say.  Spas' gonna slow you down, ruining your full speed rush OR boost you w/o killing them cause you pass them way too fast.

So what I'm saying is: BOOST THE GUNS!  FAST IS FUN!

Make them so I can die faster to spawn back and go out to kill faster.

Meh, I ended up writting quite a bit... bah

PS:  In that current wep.ini,  ruger reloads faster than HK!?!  Like....uuhhh what?

Agreed, it is too slow. +Damage for every weapon. =)

[5th_account]

I can assure you, truup, that the deagles won't be as stuffed as in 1.2.1. I reckon they're still missing 33 units of damage, one in fireinterval and 5 as reload goes compared the the exp. Of course the remaining weapons back then were also quite hawt, and it's all relative. But for now all the semis got appropriate buffs each to ensure equality.

[phaylanx]

Though these lists are generic, and I must have posted one of them hundreds of times, this is my view on the weapons:

Deagles: Needs to be stronger. Nothing else, just stronger.

Mp5: Needs a longer reload and less damage.

Steyr: Needs more bink, and possibly more Movementacc, depends on how well the added bink works. Nothing else.

Ak74: ROF needs to go down, and damage needs to slightly go down.

Spas: Needs no change.

Ruger77: Needs no change.

M79: No damage changes, just a longer reload. A lot longer.

Barrett: Needs no change.

Minime: Needs no change.

Minigun: Get rid of selfbink, or make it occur at like 70 bullets in or something. Selfbink and its low damage = the death of the minigun. Needs to be made into a real, usable weapon this version.

Socom: A little less strength.

Knife: Needs no change.

Chainsaw: Give it like 300 reload, and make it so it actually kills when you touch someone and its fine. (possibly adding the hit radius bigger, or making the ROF faster so theres more chances a hit will register when you try to cut someone up.)

Law: Less reload. The 6 seconds is painstakingly long for a game like Soldat. 4 should be enough.

Grenades: Theres just so many problems with them, but my solution, and I think, the absolutly best solution to fix grenades is to make the ROF longer. So you cant throw 4 grenades in under .5 seconds. Im talking about the time it takes to throw a grenade be lengthened. Now you actually have to AIM with grenades instead of spamming them and getting a cheap kill.



This list is a cultivation of the last year in 1.3.1, so when I post these, I post with accuracy in my opinions.

i think this is the most intelligent set of weapon balances i have ever read, i agree with everything.  bravo mancer.

i also think that the beta AK-74 is garbage, its rof is way to fast, its not supposed to feel like an aug...  the AK should be unique, stay true to the original design.

[Demonic]

Just like to add that the balance is running on the gather servers ( well, two of them atleast ). If you guys want to test it out, maybe put the balance on sna.gather aswell? That would give you the feeling of it. I'm saying this because the Ak, by numbers, is crap, but when it comes into play... ho ho ho, feels like having a boner of never before seen sizes, aye it does