1.5b comments

[Poop]

Excuse my typos.

Deagles: Good change

AUTOS: Pretty good changes, considering the fact that spray will supposedly be nerfed, the decrease in self-bink makes sense. My only concern is steyr being a bit too strong compared to other autos. I thought all autos were balanced with eachother this version, so thats why I think steyr will be a bit to strong.

Ruger: One of my concerns. Seems it is going to become an automatic 2 hit kill with less reload. This is going to be a strong weapon next version IMO, since its already pretty powerful right now.

Spas: Wont say much because im not sure of the impact. Spas is extremely strong on small maps, but extremely weak on large ones. So I dont mind slightly strenghting a situational weapon.

M79: I still say add reload +10-15, but you guys dont listen to actual m79 users telling you to nerf it more.. so yea..

Barret: My primary concern. Barret ATM is the easiest weapon to use in clanwars.. LITERALLY. With everything else being nerfed, and barret adding a +1 MoveACC only (moveACC doesnt make a shit of a difference anyways), this will be THE easiest and strongest weapon next version by a mile. I am guaranteeing this and ill write it down and sign it if this is the change on barret. I seriously suggest you reconsider this change, because my logic tells me that +1 MoveACC is not going to make much of a difference. Still suggest considering 2 ammo.

Minigun: Will +1 damage really make this weapon worthwile?

Socom: good change

Chainsaw: Good changes

Law: Very good change

So in other words, reconsider barret changes. I am going to try to get some more clan people to post thier opinion in this thread about barret, and I believe they will tell you the same thing im telling you.

[ElGato]

I wish I could type up a big response to this but honestly, I think Poop covered it all and I agree with most everything he has there.

The only thing I disagree with is the ruger, I like the changes.

[Morik]

I agree that the barret needs something done to it. I think it is one of the most used weapons in clanwars, and will be even more so if the thing has nothing done to it next version.

The m79 needs a little more nerf to it as well, along with the steyr. Everything else is just fine.

[Rai-Dei]

The Deagles are great, but the damned reload is too fast.

[Blade]

Hey, everyone that posted so far are people active in the clan warring community, and yes, barret DEFINITELY needs some more tweaking to weaken, it's absolutely unstoppable recently because everybody's been using it, and it already overpowers most weapons now. Just make the fire interval longer by very little (1-5) and definitely increase the bink by like 10, so that it's very difficult to hit while being sprayed, because people learn quickly.

ak's been changed to a weaker steyr so a little weakening of steyr would be nice.

I hope nades are seriously nerfed this version please... they are the most used weapons and kill the easiest...and you have 3 free kills if in a cw.

couldn't care less about ruger really. seems kinda powerful but not that many users yet.

Knife could use some more speed to it.

[Raithah]

As a spas user, I'd perfer not to have it nerfed along with my favorite secondary, the Soccom, but what am I going to do. The best thing for the spas would be to lower it's damage but increase the ROF and add a little more speed. On laggy servers you need to hit more not harder. Lag destroys the shotgun.

[Ouchek]

I think everything is fine and ruger needs to be nerfed, I agree with DS on that one!

[JudgeMan]

I'm gonna say it again: Ruger's gonna reload faster than HK and as fast as Deagles!?!?!  CMON....

[mar77a]

Barret shouldn't be one hit kill in the feet.

[5th_account]

Thanks a lot for the contribution.

I can shamefully agree in that the barret is toublesome. A main goal of this balance was to move away slightly from the "1v1 DM balance" that's been moulded since 1.2.1. I wanted slightly more of a balanced triforce system that works better in team games, where generally semis would beat autos, 1-hitters beat semis and autos beat 1-hitters; not three of one kind beats everything. A change from 1.3.1 would be more people moving over from autos to semis, but then 1-hitters would thrive. The barret cannot directly be nerfed without fawking it up. I prefered indirectly nerfing it by making the two other forces of the triangle better than some think they should. But that might not be enough. I'll consider little more bink.

The changes on the ruger aren't as great as they appear. The extra damage will only help you those occational times where you think that 3-hit kill should have been a 2-hit kill. Deagles and spas got more meaningful buffs. If you think ruger was too good already then it won't be worse. It's relatively less strong amongs the semis.

Raithah. Maybe I just missunderstood you, but -x fireinterval means increased ROF.

Judge. The effective reload time is reload + fireinterval. Ruger still tops da charts. Still don't like it? Go play realistic or CS.

mar77a. One thing MM asked us not to do was fiddle with barret's damage value. It's sacred to him like jasmine rice with sweet'n'sour sauce.

[Dark Jesus]

AUTOS: Pretty good changes, considering the fact that spray will supposedly be nerfed, the decrease in self-bink makes sense. My only concern is steyr being a bit too strong compared to other autos. I thought all autos were balanced with eachother this version, so thats why I think steyr will be a bit to strong.

The HK has some problems to it, in my opinion. It lost its power, even though it's a very low power weapon to begin with, and it binks even more now. I have to say that the HK should keep the same power, and maybe a little more bink.

[5th_account]

sigh, it has less selfbink than before, not more.

[Raithah]

Hey, it could be a problem with my copy because of all my mods, but ...

I'm pretty sure that 94 is 6 less than 100 thus it's been nerfed

Oh. Heh, my brain seems to have left the building. Please excuse my retarded post.

[Poop]

where generally semis would beat autos, 1-hitters beat semis and autos beat 1-hitters; not three of one kind beats everything.

This sounds good on paper, but I think hard to implement in practice. Mostly because other than the autos, all weapons are very unique and its not like m79 and barret are similiar enough to say that all autos will beat both of these and both of these will beat all semis or something like that.

I do understand what your trying to do though and if its possible to do this then thats great.

[Zamorak]

moveacc makes a huge difference, actually.


Barret will always stay the same in it's general nature. So the problem is not with nerfing the barret but rather with making other weapons more potent (see prev. versions).

[Chakra]

Poop brings up some interesting comments.

We still got a little time.... Beta testers, methinks its time to reconsider the ak-steyr relation, consider leaving the ruger as it was, and maybe add another 20 points to the barret's bink.

[Gortaak]

Yeah, The AK got hit really hard here, -10 dmg, isnt it supposed to be the most damaging auto, at expence of RoF and reload time? I read somewhere that someone said that it actually has +.25% damage over time, now what is this time? The whole clip? If so, that is completly useless because it doesnt take a whole clip to kill someone.
I noticed that it does 1 point of damage more than the mp5, and almost the same amount of bink.  Did someone really hate the AK that much? I havnt actually used the Ak just yet, but im going to try these changes out and edit my reply, but on paper, it looks like you guys really destroyed the AK, and yet again nerfed the mp5. 
As Zam had said, make the weapons more potent, ballance isnt just making every gun weaker, mebey make them a bit stronger, If the AK was overpowering the other autos, make them stronger to keep up, not nerf the ak really bad, then slightly nerf the rest of the autos on top of it.

Also beefing up the Deagles and the Ruger while making autos weaker, is really a bad idea in my opinion, they already do a massive amount of damage, and now that you weakend the autos, there is almost no chance in killing them, as it was already hard enough.  Anyways, Ill test this out and reply here in a few minutes.



Edit: Ok, I jsut played with it, and I dont liek it at all.  First the ak shoots way to fast, its almost like shooting the mini mi. It feels like to little damage is being done as well. All of the autos seem to lack punch (execpt steyr) and all the semi's seem to have taken that punch for themselves.

I hate the new change to the AK, it feels bad, the RoF is retarded on it, the ak it self feels horrible, ESPICALLY at long range, a full screen away it is useless now, where as that is what its strong point was. Combine that with the few un registered hits, it makes this gun garbage in my opinion.  I played with the other guns, and it seems the steyr is going to be unstopable now, even more so than it was.

As for semi autos verse autos, there is no constest now, none what so ever, if someone has a semi and you have an auto, you would probally have a better time trying to fist them to death. But what ever, what do I know.

In my honest opinion, i think you all ruined the ak, and you should change it, I dont know what changes would make it better (execpt take away the RoF it has now), im not a beta tester, im just an ak user.

[Blade]

I'll just summarize my view.

Ruger : Leave Ruger
Barret : Bink+20-40 for Barret, if you're being shot you shouldn't be able to hit.
Ak : -2 power is all it needs really.
Minigun : Make it much less self binked, up the power by 5.
Knife : +2 speed
Nades : -4 speed, +10 fire interval, you shouldn't be able to drop your entire nade belt at once...

[5th_account]

Yeah, The AK got hit really hard here, -10 dmg, isnt it supposed to be the most damaging auto, at expence of RoF and reload time? I read somewhere that someone said that it actually has +.25% damage over time, now what is this time? The whole clip? If so, that is completly useless because it doesnt take a whole clip to kill someone.

I wrote that. The damage was decreased 9,7%, while the RoF was increased 10.0%, which results in more damage over time. Also I never touched the reload time. What balance are you looking at? >_>

I noticed that it does 1 point of damage more than the mp5, and almost the same amount of bink.

You'll go blind from staring at the values...
Projectile strength = Damage * Speed
Selfbink growth = (-1) * ( Bink - Fireinterval ) / Fireinterval

As Zam had said, make the weapons more potent, ballance isnt just making every gun weaker, mebey make them a bit stronger, If the AK was overpowering the other autos, make them stronger to keep up, not nerf the ak really bad, then slightly nerf the rest of the autos on top of it.

Indeed. Look at the changelog.

[a-4-year-old]

the ak already sucks pretty hard in 1.3.1, i think it could use some more speed, or damage, or both. The styer and mp5 already distroy it for short and long range, so already they are more favorable weapons, and it kills so slowly, i tested that on a stand-still person with 16 ping (i had 30) it would take 5 headshots to kill them, I did this a few times and each time i got five headshots is one kill. Five is too much, especially when the weapon shoots at a slower rate then the other autos.


As for rate of fire for the AK, rate of fire doesn't do shit for you, Rate of fire just means you get binked faster and can spray quicker. Since 1.2.1 the AK has just been merged into becoming an Aug.

Basically you took a barret, something with a high rate of fire and high damage, and made the rate of fire low, and made the damage lower as well to make it "balanced" but all you did was make it into another weapon (in this example the ruger)