1.5b comments

[Marbire]

I think the balance right now is very good.

Except for 2 things. Those being the barret and nades. Nades need an extreme decrease in damage or usability or whatever you think is best. Killing with them is too damn easy. Mid air nade kills are NOT hard.

Barret I dont think I need to explain. I thought Poop was joking when he said the beta testers want to give it MORE instead of nerfing it. Apparently he was not kidding.

m79 maybe longer reload. Not sure on that one.

[mar77a]

Nades damage is fine, i think max TWO nades should be default

It worked changing from 4 to 3, lets try from 3 to 2. I think it'll be alright. Oh and m79 needs even more selfdamage or something, boosting is too cheap.

[Clawbug]

I think the balance right now is very good.

Except for 2 things. Those being the barret and nades. Nades need an extreme decrease in damage or usability or whatever you think is best. Killing with them is too damn easy. Mid air nade kills are NOT hard.

Barret I dont think I need to explain. I thought Poop was joking when he said the beta testers want to give it MORE instead of nerfing it. Apparently he was not kidding.

m79 maybe longer reload. Not sure on that one.

Err... Are you saying that e.g. M79 vs. Barrett-balance is fine after barrett is nerfed?

For Mar77a, making M79 do more self-damage kills some tactical gameplay. Like on ctf_Equinox. That map ain't fun without M79 boosting.

[nosejj]

// Deagles: Good change.
// HK MP5: Good change.
// AK: Good change.
// Steyr: I think it's a bit overpowered since  1.3.1.
// Spas: I support poop: "Spas is extremely strong on small maps, but extremely weak on large ones. So I don't mind slightly strenghting a situational weapon."
// Ruger: It should stay as it is at 1.3.1
// M79: Needs to increase the reload time.
// Barret: The barret should be nerfed in my opinion! It's too strong considering to other weapons.
// Minimi: FireInterval should be increased.
// Minigun: I don't think it changes much...

// Socom: Good change.
// Knife: Love it since 1.3.1
// Chainsaw: I think the amount of ammo should be lowered.
// LAW: Great

[[S][K]Echo]

I haven't tested the new weapon balance yet (well, I've played a few gathers..), but I can take a few conclusions from what I've read so far.

Ruger improvement: I totally disagree with it. Ruger is darn good already.

Eagles improvement: If it is a slight improvement, I do agree. Maybe adding tiny more damage and increasing the the time between each shot would be a good change. A bit more of recharge time wouldn't hurt either.

Spas improvement: I've been playing a few gathers (with the new weapon balance) lately and Spas is seriously overpowered. It does ridiculous damage, even at mid range. And from what I've heard from beta testers, its range is even greater now, so it will surely be way too strong. Yes, it might su*k on big maps, but honestly most clanwars are played in small/medium maps (voland, nuubia, laos, dropdown, ash...). I can't even remember the last clanwar I've played on Ctf_Run or B2b. And even on those maps, whoever uses on altway will be darn annoying to kill.
Spas is a great weapon already, I'm glad there are only a few players using it.

Barret nerf: Nerf it now, then nerf again... It will still be too good.

Nades nerf: I do think there should be some delay between each nade throw and maybe it shouldn't be possible to 1shot someone with it while in air. But that might be a little bit hard to fix (the 1shot thing that is).

Knife improvement: I've read something about increasing its speed (by speed I'm assuming you're also talking about increasing range)... I hope this isn't true, knife is a fine weapon already. Theres no need of making it a pseudo-sniper.

I can't comment on the other weapons. I do think AK needs nerf, but Steyr needs it more.  I'm only concerned about nades, barret (no biggie tho) and spas. I'll easily get used to the rest.

[Morik]

For Mar77a, making M79 do more self-damage kills some tactical gameplay. Like on ctf_Equinox. That map ain't fun without M79 boosting.

I just hope Equinox is not in the next version (along with death2 and b2b)

[Clawbug]

For Mar77a, making M79 do more self-damage kills some tactical gameplay. Like on ctf_Equinox. That map ain't fun without M79 boosting.

I just hope Equinox is not in the next version (along with death2 and b2b)

What is the problem with these maps? IMO they are one of the best maps in Soldat. Death2 can be pretty tactical if palyer against a team which knows how to play it. (e.g. Aesir)

Let me guess, you like dropdown2? >_> Nuubia?

All these new maps lack the ability for teamwork. :/

Date Posted: February 13, 2007, 02:38:12 PM

steyr is way under-powered in my opinion which makes it one of the lesser used autos. My suggestion is that we should just revert back 1.2.1 weapons and their stats + bink, i used to prawn with deagles until the new version came out and it started sucking... badly!

Every so-called new features that MM comes up with anyway are simply just bugs that he couldn't fix in the last version anyway...

In 1.2.1 deagles and mp5 were very overpowered compared to current balance. Also, people in here play alot of clanwars and gathers (If you use IRC, #Soldat.gather @ Qnet, if you don't, start using it.) so they know alot of the weapons, usage and such. AUG is probably the most used weapon in clanwars. At least it is most used auto. There are many great AUG users out there, and for the reason. AUG performs better than Ak, but has smaller clip. In clanwars you do not do anything with the 40 bullets clip because you almost never run out of ammo. AK owns in public servers tho, where there are always enemies coming at you.

[Morik]

It really doesnt matter if death2 and equinox are tactical. There is a reason why they are not played much in matches. They just are not fun maps to play. B2b is just too uneven...maybe if it was remade...

[Demonic]

 While in this forum, the "I have more experience than you" argument stands, this is not the topic. Because Australia has a significantly smaller community than the Euro/NA one, probs are that even though you have more years of play time than us, we've played the same amount of scrims, thus our experience level would be the same.

 The current auto balance is.. awkward. Minimi is good for defensive/support when you need to rack up damage, fast, Ak is for keeping the enemy at bay, but steyr is the most universal. With the fast reload, good damage and accuracy, it can pump out 60-70 bullets while a minimi can only shoot 50. That's why Steyr didn't get changed, but Ak and Minimi got upgraded, so they stand on equal grounds. Slower but bigger firepower is the role of the semis, the autos should be fast, very fast.

[Chakra]

May I suggest thorough clan-style testing like back in the 1.3 days ...groups of autos vs semis...just to make sure we don't get too much of the same clans-of-auto dominance like in 1.2.1. S'lot easier - or maybe the word is more reliable - to team up and throw a clip of bullets at someone, than it is to team up with semis.

[cr4sh]

Is there a server running this, I'd like to try it.

[Poop]

Both North American gather servers are now running the 1.5B mod.

As well as the european gathers and the soldatforums server. -Chakra

[ramirez]

I don't get what's the problem with new Ak. It's fire interval was made same as it was in earlier versions and nobody had problem back then. The damage reduction was made because if we only changed the fire rate the damage over time would become way too good, since efficiently you fire the whole clip considerably faster with same overall power. It isn't any weaker at all. Each auto has their strong points, and it's true that eg. steyr is the best auto in mid to long range duels, but ak takes the cake when you fight against multiple enemies because it can fire almost twice as long without having to reload. You seriously can't just look at things so simply, it's not so black and white. The weapons have situational advantages and comparing only one situation doesn't give the whole picture of the balance. And it's even weirder to compare one weapon to an old balance, completely disregarding changes to other weapons.

And guys, MovementAcc +1 is a big change. Way bigger change than changing self-bink a little bit. Although I do agree that adding some self-bink to barret wouldn't hurt either. And as for the spas argument, come on. It might be a very good weapon in short range battles, but pretty much any other auto or semi owns it in mid to long range fights. It would make absolutely no sense to nerf it, and the buff is very justified. There are only few maps in the game that force you to fight in short range, in most maps you can just use your head to fight against spas and have the advantage.

Anyway putting all that aside, it seems that ruger is the most controversial weapon in the new balance. I'm not a dedicated ruger user myself, but I do use it occassionally. I've played a lot with the new balance and I don't see what's the problem with new ruger. To be honest I don't even notice much difference at all. I don't mind the small damage buff, but I wouldn't mind if we kept it the same either. But it's a fact that people are looking at the values way too much, because the change in ruger makes like ~1-2% difference in damage or so.

I think that knife and nades are fine the way they are, though I agree that nades could use an increase in fire interval so you can't spam them all at same time.

Well all in all, this isn't really anything new. Everytime the balance is changed people's opinions are divided like this, but after actually playing cws or whatever for a few weeks people start to see the real changes. From experience. Not from numbers alone. Personally I think that two of the biggest problems with current Soldat are barret (it's way too easy to use as an assault weapon) and spraying. Both of these problems should be somewhat fixed in 1.3.2. MovementAcc makes that much difference to barret as an assault weapon. Also please note that the changes make even more sense when they're used with the new version, so I understand some people's uneasiness with testing the changes on current version.

[Marbire]

Err... Are you saying that e.g. M79 vs. Barrett-balance is fine after barrett is nerfed?

Well like I said, maybe the m79 needs a little bit of a longer reload. But yes, it would be balanced.

Nades damage is fine, i think max TWO nades should be default

Yes that might work also. But killing with them is still too easy. But yeah, just SOMETHING to decrease the amount of kills I can get with damn nades.

[mar77a]

Update: The Spas is fine in 1.3.1, almost overpowered i'd say. Why make it SO much stronger? The rate of fire is just...PUM SHIKIT PUM SHIKIT PUM SHIKIT PUM SHIKIT PUM SHIKIT PUM SHIKIT PUM SHIKIT.

[Chakra]

Sorry guv, another figment of your imagination. Damage is the same, fire interval reduced by 2, reload time increase by 75%, and speed increased by 1 point. So you can fire 1/16th faster and do 1 speed's worth more of damage than before.

Shotgun has always been a suprisingly good weapon ...merely requires a good aim and maybe having a good position.

[Rai-Dei]

I change my mind on the new Deagles, I love them, But to that guy above that said "Increase time between shots" I say NO.

[mar77a]

So you can fire 1/16th faster and do 1 speed's worth more of damage than before.

That's what I meant with stronger...

[5th_account]

When you say spas is overpowered, do you mean compared to the other semis or that it can mangle down sprayers in a clanwar? =)

[mar77a]

Mmm or both, just saying it might be "cheap" if you take into account the boosting and the "infinite" reload.