Possible solution to the 1 hit kill problem?

[6th_account]

Disagree all you want, newbies, but 1-hit killers are too... useful. Since the barret cannot be nerfed much without breaking it, the most promising solution is to buff all the alternatives.

As for the m79 it was planned to try the 1.1.5 trait with static speed. Unfortunally MM meh'ed the idea, so it'll probably be somewhat overused in 1.4 too.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Disagree all you want, newbies, but 1-hit killers are too... useful.

Ironically, it's the newbies who have a problem with the one hit kills.  The experienced players don't worry about them, since they know how to counter.

[6th_account]

Well fuck them then. This isn't about finding a good veteran balance. Both sides' issues should be dealth with.

M79 shouldn't just be about black and white; winning a public by rushing with close-range shots and getting owned by spray. There used to be a thick grayscale too where m79 neither was too good nor too bad for the situation.

[Aquarius]

There isnt a problem with 1 hit kill weapons. The only 1 hit kill weapon that is unbalanced is the grenades, and thats it.

Grenades are not unbalanced, all players have the same amount of nades besides you can set up a server with 1 or 2 grenades and it prevents nade spamming.

[6th_account]

By that definition nades would still be balanced if they were guaranteed 1-hit kills with a blast radius of five screens =)

[iDante]

I think something fun that could be tried for the barrett (m79 is underpowered if you ask me) is to make it 2-hit kill and make 2 rounds in a clip and really fast shots and tiny selfbink.

[6th_account]

That would both make the ruger redundant and go against MM's request to not touch the barret's damage value.

[iDante]

That would both make the ruger redundant and go against MM's request to not touch the barret's damage value.

it would not be like the ruger in that it would be 2 extremely fast shots. I think I'll try this out on my own and see how it works.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Well **** them then. This isn't about finding a good veteran balance. Both sides' issues should be dealt with.

Oh yeah, THAT'S a good plan.  Remove the incentive to become skilled. (sarcasm)

The idea behind weapon balance is that if you have a decent idea of how the weapons work, they're pretty much equal (as far as situational advantages and disadvantages).  That's the case now.  It seems that you want "veteran" to mean "has good aim."  That's simplistic and downright wrong.  The mark of a skilled player is his understanding of the game, not his ability to manipulate input.  With your mindset, it's hard to believe that you could be an effective beta tester.

[6th_account]

Waat? When did i say or imply all those things? You don't know me.

Can you not grasp that the m79 is overused and quite easy to get a decent amount of kills with on a pub? I suppose you're also denying the holocaust. Hitler did that too. Are you a nazi?

Anyhoo, call me communist, but i think newbs and vets should have equally as much fun and balance in their own weightclass.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Waat? When did i say or imply all those things? You don't know me.

You implied them in your last post.

Can you not grasp that the m79 is overused and quite easy to get a decent amount of kills with on a pub?

Overused, yes.  Easy to get a decent amount of kills, no.  Best case is a 1:1 ratio.  A more likely case is far below that.

I suppose you're also denying the holocaust. Hitler did that too. Are you a nazi?

ZING! You got me good there, just like you did LAST PAGE.  Ouch.

Anyhoo, call me communist,

I'll pass, because unlike you, I don't apply extreme ideologies to people just because of how they respond to an issue in a video game.

but i think newbs and vets should have equally as much fun and balance in their own weightclass.

Despite what you seem to think, the ability to dodge does not make someone a veteran player.  Anyway, if all of the guns were perfectly even, like you seem to suggest, why have them?  Why have variety if certain guns aren't better in certain situations, and there's no advantage to using one over the other?  Think of any other game.  Think of chess.  Each player starts out exactly the same way.  But if one has more skill than the other, if one knows how to deal with certain situations better than the other, he's going to win.  New chess players might get forked a lot.  But what do they do?  Do they whine that knights are overpowered?  No.  They learn to watch for the signs of a fork, and avoid or counter it.  The same is true for Soldat.  New players will get killed by the M79 a lot.  But anyone with any intelligence at all will soon learn how to deal with it.

[iDante]

I suppose you're also denying the holocaust. Hitler did that too. Are you a nazi?

Why do you keep bringing that up? Can't beat him in a fair argument so therefore call him a nazi. Good strategy.

Despite what you seem to think, the ability to dodge does not make someone a veteran player.  Anyway, if all of the guns were perfectly even, like you seem to suggest, why have them?  Why have variety if certain guns aren't better in certain situations, and there's no advantage to using one over the other?  Think of any other game.  Think of chess.  Each player starts out exactly the same way.  But if one has more skill than the other, if one knows how to deal with certain situations better than the other, he's going to win.  New chess players might get forked a lot.  But what do they do?  Do they whine that knights are overpowered?  No.  They learn to watch for the signs of a fork, and avoid or counter it.  The same is true for Soldat.  New players will get killed by the M79 a lot.  But anyone with any intelligence at all will soon learn how to deal with it.

I must say I agree with you on all points, except that in chess the pieces are supposed to be unbalanced.
No, I do not believe that m79 is overpowered, barrett maybe, but m79... no.

[Veritas]

Quote from: 6th_account on Yesterday at 11:14:03 PM
Anyhoo, call me communist,

I'll pass, because unlike you, I don't apply extreme ideologies to people just because of how they respond to an issue in a video game.

Quote from: 6th_account on Yesterday at 11:14:03 PM
I suppose you're also denying the holocaust. Hitler did that too. Are you a nazi?
Why do you keep bringing that up? Can't beat him in a fair argument so therefore call him a nazi. Good strategy.

Oh wow.
Some people need to lighten up and learn to take a joke.

But anyone with any intelligence at all will soon learn how to deal with it.

Anyone is going to have trouble if you're in a pub with a crappy team and going against a team of 50-75% m79s. This happens more often than it should.
I would say the issue with the m79 is more that its overused than anything else. A slight nerf to fix that issue and the fact that the m79 is quite good in scrims\cws as well would be the correct course of action, IMHO.

[Aquarius]

By that definition nades would still be balanced if they were guaranteed 1-hit kills with a blast radius of five screens =)

But they don't have the blast radius of five screens and because of lag they are not guaranteed 1-hit kills.

[6th_account]

Nades having random damage, Aquarius - That's what i think many are using the word unbalanced for. I'm not against nades to the feet being kills nor to the head doing less damage. But the glitch can at times seem too big and seemingly very random. Picture a pole over your head. You hit him in the legs with a hard thrown grenade and he flies away like dust. At the same time he drops a nade which lands on your head which kills for some reason. According to MM it's because nades doesn't use the standard head-torso-feet algorithm like bullets.
Anyhoo, a bug which made nades become stranger and stranger the higher the ping is at has been fixed.

Despite what you seem to think, the ability to dodge does not make someone a veteran player.

Argh, i never said those who can dodge are pro, i don't think i've even used the word nor implied it lately.

Anyway, if all of the guns were perfectly even, like you seem to suggest, why have them?  Why have variety if certain guns aren't better in certain situations, and there's no advantage to using one over the other?   Think of any other game.  Think of chess.  Each player starts out exactly the same way.  But if one has more skill than the other, if one knows how to deal with certain situations better than the other, he's going to win.  New chess players might get forked a lot.  But what do they do?  Do they whine that knights are overpowered?  No.  They learn to watch for the signs of a fork, and avoid or counter it.  The same is true for Soldat.  New players will get killed by the M79 a lot.  But anyone with any intelligence at all will soon learn how to deal with it.

Fancy talk, no stick. It's just wrong to compare a small, lag-unaffected game that doesn't have a random factor nor many other factors at all for that matter, that's also designed to be fair and complex.

Oeh, i like starcraft! Not the same as Soldat, but just to illustrate what i like in a game. At least it's closer to soldat than chess ;d
The game has random factors, but not a lot. The game is extremely well-balanced, but provides tons of variation. I've played it for 9 years or whatnot and still haven't managed to detect a possibly overpowered race or char, just favourites and prefered tactics. =) Joo see, perfect balance isn't just copypasting a gun.

Sure, there is a proven method of dealing with m79s - spraying. But that's not very fun on either side of the barrel and will get very shagged in 1.4. Now joor tactic is nerfed, lolol whatjoo gonna do when they come for joo?!

[Sytrus]

A one hit kill weapon simply cannot be overpowered,only overused. The power means it kills with one shot, hwo can you call that overpowered?

[6th_account]

There's 7 other useful attributes in the weapons.ini other than Damage. Besides that, the other guns' strengths can be high like in 1.2.X or low as now. A gun doesn't need pwnage attributes to be relatively overpowered.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

But anyone with any intelligence at all will soon learn how to deal with it.

Anyone is going to have trouble if you're in a pub with a crappy team and going against a team of 50-75% m79s.

Not at all, and the same applies to the barret.  I joined a deathmatch where everyone was using the barret.  ZOMG OVERPOWERED you say.  Guess what? I took out my trusty HK MP5 and tore them apart.  People even stopped using the barret and switched to other weapons.  The same happened another time with M79s.  Again, I took out an auto, but this time it was the AK-74.  Guess what? I tore them apart again.  If you're using the right weapon, the threat of these guns decreases a lot.  Also, the more opponents there are, the more free kills you get.

Despite what you seem to think, the ability to dodge does not make someone a veteran player.

Argh, i never said those who can dodge are pro, i don't think i've even used the word nor implied it lately.

But you did imply it.  I've said, quite often, that the easiest way to defeat the M79 is to dodge it, and you replied by saying you weren't looking for a veteran balance.

Anyway, if all of the guns were perfectly even, like you seem to suggest, why have them?  Why have variety if certain guns aren't better in certain situations, and there's no advantage to using one over the other?   Think of any other game.  Think of chess.  Each player starts out exactly the same way.  But if one has more skill than the other, if one knows how to deal with certain situations better than the other, he's going to win.  New chess players might get forked a lot.  But what do they do?  Do they whine that knights are overpowered?  No.  They learn to watch for the signs of a fork, and avoid or counter it.  The same is true for Soldat.  New players will get killed by the M79 a lot.  But anyone with any intelligence at all will soon learn how to deal with it.

Fancy talk, no stick. It's just wrong to compare a small, lag-unaffected game that doesn't have a random factor nor many other factors at all for that matter, that's also designed to be fair and complex.

Oeh, i like starcraft! Not the same as Soldat, but just to illustrate what i like in a game. At least it's closer to soldat than chess ;d
The game has random factors, but not a lot. The game is extremely well-balanced, but provides tons of variation. I've played it for 9 years or whatnot and still haven't managed to detect a possibly overpowered race or char, just favourites and prefered tactics. =) Joo see, perfect balance isn't just copypasting a gun.

Ever heard of a Zerg rush? It basically means instant death to people unaccustomed to it. (Kind of like the M79! Wow.)  But apparently you know how to deal with it, since you claim that everything is balanced.  WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING.  Like the M79, it only works on newbies.  And, like the M79, it's easily countered if you know what you're doing.  What's that? A game can be balanced, even if newbies have trouble with some aspects of it? Crazy.

[Veritas]

Like the M79, it only works on newbies.

What?
The m79 is a viable weapon in alt routes on most maps, somewhat viable top in others, and useful anywhere in Nuubia.

I joined a deathmatch where everyone was using the barret.

I was coming from a CTF perspective, not a DM one.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Like the M79, it only works on newbies.

What?
The m79 is a viable weapon in alt routes on most maps, somewhat viable top in others, and useful anywhere in Nuubia.

Yes, in some situations it's very useful.  But most weapons are like that.  My point was that it's the newbies who are killed consistently.  If you know what you're doing, must weapons have a pretty good chance against the M79.

I joined a deathmatch where everyone was using the barret.

I was coming from a CTF perspective, not a DM one.

Maybe so, but the concept remains the same.