Cover System

[Zantalos]

I think, I remember at one point playing soldat where cover was actually usefull. But now it's kinda, it's basically useless. Any map where cover is given to the player is basically ignored (crates, barrels) and make shift cover given by the map designers actually hurts the people they're trying to help (bunkers, pylons, pretty much everything you'll find in the Trench Wars servers, all pretty crappy).

See before, I'm pretty sure I was able to crouch down or lay behind a box of crates with my gunning sticking out and fire at people. But now it's like, it never works unless you're sticking 80% out of cover, and now any form of cover you might have attained is now useless to you because you're no long hiding under or behind it, you have to keep your entire head out of it just to shoot. It takes to long to do that, it's no longer fast paced rolling behind cover. It's rolling behind cover, test shooting, adjusting, and then shooting if you're lined up right.

Nobody ever uses cover now unless they're just fooling around, because you have so much more advantage just flying around across the map. Crouching behind cover is even more compensated because you only shoot like 2 or three bullets at a time, even Gears of War and Ghost Recon allows you to fully blindfire behind cover. Well why can't you just rest your gun on your cover and spray away? Or why can't it be like before where your bullets actually came out of the barrel of your gun, not where your chest is. If your barrel is sticking out between some barrels, your bullet should shoot, it doesn't make sense now that your bullet flies out of your forehead and hits the wall, wtf is that? It was a clear shot, and it doesn't register. Or when you're in a bunker, you should be able to look out with your gun and shoot at people, not have to worry about aiming down too far and having the hits not registering, I mean it's obvious that your gun is sticking out of the cover and yet all you're hitting is a wall 3 inches in front of you. It's like, why was the feature nerfed? The best form of cover nowadays is hiding in bush and ambushing people, I use it all the time and that just should not happen.
Sandbags>bush.


...Oh I've ranted on long enough.

[Sytrus]

I hope this isn't considered spam.....neither I wanna sound odd but...


I 100%ly totally agree with you!

[The Philanthropist]

I try to use cover on occasion, and it helps for all of 3 seconds. I don't even bother shooting from behind it, I just prone behind and hope I don't get hit. Cover could use a tiny boost. Like, you have the benefit of cover, and your accuracy is depleted if you are in the 'shoot over cover' stance.

[iDante]

it fails because 1 nade takes you out. in TW it is very useful though, and I use it all the time.

[Unlucky XIII]

Or why can't it be like before where your bullets actually came out of the barrel of your gun, not where your chest is. If your barrel is sticking out between some barrels, your bullet should shoot, it doesn't make sense now that your bullet flies out of your forehead and hits the wall, wtf is that?

That's actually to stop people being inside - rather than behind - cover and being virtually invulnerable, except maybe to explosives. If one was to do that with the current system, they could not kill, therefore only giving them protection. In the system you are proposing (which I believe was previously used at one stage), where the bullet came out of the barrel, they could kill, giving them an extreme advantage.

I do agree, cover needs an upgrade, but to stop people hiding inside colliders, a player should not be able to shoot while inside cover - as it is now.

[iDante]

you can shoot in collider, your soldat will pick his gun up and over the top. quite useful.
EDIT WOOOOO 600 POSTS!

[Magic Odd Effect]

I think it could just be collider size. If the circle of the collider is a bit too large for the crate it's been applied to, then your Soldat won't be able to fire over it.

Me? I prever solid, realistic cover that you have to hide behind, not in. Unless I'm box camping...

And ambushing? From a bush? I didn't write that book, but I read it and now use it quite a lot, and noobs hate me for it....too bad, it's better when I'm at the end in first place, then I can smack them in the face and say, "YOU COULD LEARN SOMETHING FROM ME, IF YOU'D JUST LISTEN".

I believe the bullets do come out of the barrel. It's just that the colliders could be a bit too big..

Please don't say cover is useless. I use it for sneaking,  when there aren't bushes around.

[Zantalos]

What the hell? No. No you don't use cover for sneaking that is the most redicules thing I've ever heard.



And there really is no point to cover if you have to be completely sticking out of it to fire. What is the point of it then, so they can only score head shots on you? You might as well just fly around, I mean that should be a dangerous stunt but actually it's the most safest way to get from one point of the level to the other. And what's the point of laying behind cover and not being able to shoot back? The enemy will just quickly advance on you without any pressure from supressive fire, that's no good.

you can shoot in collider, your soldat will pick his gun up and over the top. quite useful.

What the? Dude, I already said this. It's not usefull at all. Any idiot can fly by and light you up with automatic fire before your soldat can raise his gun over his head (which, if you fire while this is happeneing, you shoot at the ceiling), and shoot off his 2 rounds. If you're using an automatic weapon, you'll get killed because the other guy has a much bigger rate of fire advantage over you. This happens with all weapons, besides the LAW (because you HAVE to crouch), it's like what the hell? Every succesful shooter game that uses a cover system will at least reward you in someway defensively or otherwise for using it. Like In Gears of War, you can either pop-out and shoot accurately behind cover, or stay behind cover and fire blindly, and you don't shoot 2 or three bullets at a time you, spray fully automatic and pretty accurate even, even though you're completely concealed from fire, even from grenades and rocket launchers. And this isn't a cheap ass tactic, people like it, it's a really awesome thing, though hardly any professional player uses it because of that slightly greater advantage of aiming and shooting out of cover, it never gets abused. It really helps people get into the game as beginners, it's a safe option.
But in soldat, you don't get any of this motivation to actively seek and use cover, your aim is terrible while crouching behind cover, you have to stay perfectly still, grenades kill you, rockets kill you, any explosions kill you, your head and chest are completely exposed, and you shoot in short inaccurate bursts. Professionals don't use this, beginners who use this gain absolutely nothing from it, and discover it's completely useless. The only time you'll even consider using cover is while you're standing at a choke point and cover is already conveniently provided for you. This hardly gives you an advantage though. And it would be so easy to fix this, you could just revert things back a little.

[Hiro]

Well, I agree that the bullets not coming out of the barrel IS problematic (I don't count how many times I've died trying to law out of cover ) but think on this:

When inside cover I can't be hurt (except explosions). If I could shoot while in cover (ie. if the bullets came out of the barrel not my chest) then think, I'm fairly invulnerable AND I deal out death just as normal. That would suck.

Also notice: When my soldat raises his gun half the time it still can't fire because the hit-circle is too big. The other times it just fires in bursts of 3. This is not useful.

I personally think that cover is actually pretty fine. You use it to not get shot while reloading.

[Magic Odd Effect]

What the hell? No. No you don't use cover for sneaking that is the most redicules thing I've ever heard.

Smitten. You have no idea how useful cover is for sneaking. Have you ever even played R/S or TW?

Cover is one of the most valuable sneaking assets you have. And camping assets. All you have to do to fire, really, is briefly jump out, fire, then back in. Unless they use a nade, you stay in and are invulnerable. Besides, no one really follows the Rules of Engagement, so they're going to rush you even if you're shooting at them, unless they're smart.

Simply put, if you know how to use it, cover can make you almost invincible. An improved shoot-from-behind-cover system would actually encourage camping. Good for me, bad for the community because all noobs would camp.

[{depth}shaman]

Dude, this isn't gears of war. Gears of war is the most awesome game ever. Sodlat, is only the second most awesome game ever. Anyways, cover can be plenty uuseful if you know how to use it. I win Dm all the time because i know hoe to utilize colliders. The only thing i think that should change is, the bullets come out of your gun, unless there is a polygon in between your gun and your chest.

[Zantalos]

Dude, you get hardly any cover behind a crate and you're better off not even crouching behind them, even though you should be crouching behind them.

Cover does not make you almost invincible, it barely protects you at all. If the enemy sees you, you are dead. It really only helps when people are blind shooting at you from 3 screens away. But if they are above you, which they will be because hovering beats walking, you're almost completely exposed.

But actually, all I'm really asking is for bullets to come out of the barrel, that's all that is really bugging me.



This is shooting underneath cover. Look how far out I am, my head is completely exposed, none of these shots are going through.


This is in a TW server, my gun is sticking out of the bunker, in fact my body is basically exposed completely (head is open, legs and stomach are open), the only reason I can't shoot is that the bullets are comming out of a little spot in my chest, behind the gun and now cover is useless. What the hell. I should at least be able to shoot from this position, nothing is compromised, people can shoot me so it's not like I'm invincible or even at all safe. Why can't I shoot back?

[boer]

this first occured in 2004, with some new version. Why do you kill yourself when hiding behind the box and firing m79 i asked? The answer is that the collision detection was adjusted to 'improve' the game, bullets does'n't come out of gun barrel, it is from the stomach of the soldat!!!

[Sytrus]

This should be massively put back to the bullets coming out of the barrel.

[Aquarius]

Yes, I remember times when colliders were more useful... now you can only hide behind it, but not shot. It could be fixed very easly by Michal: simply make colliders not working if a bullet didn't travel at least 50 pixels (or maybe less, it should be a very small distance).

[{depth}shaman]

That's a really good idea aquarious. The best solution I've heard yeat. If shot at close enough colliders wouldn't work, thus players could easily shoot out and other players could shoot in at them if close enough, which is realistic. I'd make it so you couldn't really shoot out if you were far enough back in the collider, just enough so that if you at all exposed, you could shoot out.

[Psycho]

I think cover is useless. if I see someone crouching behind a sand bag I think 1 nade to blast him away and then some mp5 bullets if the explosion did not take him out.

Cover is also not useful because the bullets arc. wich means they enter from above and goes downwards towards the soldier while the cover is right in front of him. this results in a very tiny part of him that is covered.

[GluLm]

I agree with all you wrote. I hope Michal M. will fix the cover system.
Colliders should be useful, not useless!

[fishfood]

INDEED!

[2big4u]

Cover in soldat (unlike Gears of War) is pretty much useless. Its used for a quick getaway so you dont get killed, sneaking (as said by magic odd effect) or just to have some time to reload. One nade can kill you while your there, so it doesnt matter how much your body is covered. Although i still support the idea that the gun needs to shoot from the barrel, because i can't tell you how many law/m79 accidents i have gotten into. Plus when you are in cover, you are completely still, so while (for example) Major is flying over you, he throws a nade, and just flies away. Shooting an Mp5 from cover barely helps when Major is zooming past you. Now if your smart you would move, and thats the idea. MOVE. A moving target is much harder to kill than a standing one.

Back on topic:

I support the 'shooting from barrel' idea.