Is there anything wrong with the maps?

[Keron Cyst]

It looks like v1.4.1 will take a bit longer, so since I'm pretty much in the head of the maps department, I'm just wondering if anyone's found polybugs or AI problems with any maps. Go ahead and post any problems you'd like me to fix... (and ctf_Nuubia has a superior, Anna-approved coloring job now, so you don't need to complain about that, lol)

[Not Not Muldritch]

Fix all the maps you fucking ruined by roofing them in.

[Noldi]

I don't like the end of the top part of Kampf. Those walls look too damn thick.

[a-4-year-old]

I don't like how a few maps got opened up in tighter places *ahem* equinox *ahem* they destroyed all hope of close combat.

[A]

I despise Ctf_Conquest. It's definitely my least favorite default map and needs a major overhaul.

[Keron Cyst]

Fix all the maps you ****ing ruined by roofing them in.

I didn't want to. The beta testers all demanded it.

@A: I was thinking of making another thread on that map, actually. The testers were split perfectly on it (6-6) but it was included anyways, but I don't want to make a poll or else it'll end up like the Airpirates one.

[Not Not Muldritch]

I didn't want to. The beta testers all demanded it.

Now why the hell did they do that? Boosting to top of B2B is classic; they might as well demand the removal of the crouchbug.

[Twistkill]

On the farthest left side of Factory, on the first floor, you can sometimes go right through the little ledge thingy at the bottom of the staircase, resulting in being teleported back to a spawn point. (Even without an explosion.)

[VijchtiDoodah]

I didn't want to. The beta testers all demanded it.

Now why the hell did they do that? Boosting to top of B2B is classic; they might as well demand the removal of the crouchbug.

Classic?  It was only possible after 1.2.0 came out.

...but I understand what you're saying.  We added those roofs to prevent game stalling (i.e., when flaggers boost to the top of a map and either stay where few people can get or die so that the flag cannot be retrieved). 

I'll bring it up with the crew later on and see if there's any compromise we can come up with.  If you have any ideas, please share them.

[Not Not Muldritch]

Classic?  It was only possible after 1.2.0 came out.

Are you sure? I could've sworn it was possible in old B2B.

Now that I think about it, I don't even remember how old B2B looked.

[VijchtiDoodah]

I'm sure.  The original versions that had no limit on player speed came out before ctf_b2b was created.  Then a temporary limit on player speed was imposed and it wasn't taken off until 1.2.0.  In the meantime, ctf_b2b became a default map, making 1.2.0 the first version in which boosting was possible on ctf_b2b.

[Keron Cyst]

On the farthest left side of Factory, on the first floor, you can sometimes go right through the little ledge thingy at the bottom of the staircase, resulting in being teleported back to a spawn point. (Even without an explosion.)

Dang. I have no idea why you're able to do that, but I think I know how to fix it... you're basically saying that players can somehow get themselves under and fall beneath the bridge, right? The ground underneath it was set to Doesn't-Collide to let flags and Kits fall through. Can a player easily glitch it successfully upon every attempt? If not, perhaps it can be left in, or I'll make the walls Deadly, lol.

EDIT ^ Man, Vij', you're old. There was a time before ctf_B2b?!

[Clawbug]

I'm sure.  The original versions that had no limit on player speed came out before ctf_b2b was created.  Then a temporary limit on player speed was imposed and it wasn't taken off until 1.2.0.  In the meantime, ctf_b2b became a default map, making 1.2.0 the first version in which boosting was possible on ctf_b2b.

With minigun you were able to reach the top of the ceiling in pre-1.2 Soldat.

[The Philanthropist]

In ash, if you are flying around on teh outside of the building, you can catch glimpses of players on the inside when playing on real mode.. This only seems to happen on bravos base at the top right side.

[SDFilm]

I didn't want to. The beta testers all demanded it.

Now why the hell did they do that? Boosting to top of B2B is classic; they might as well demand the removal of the crouchbug.

Classic? It was only possible after 1.2.0 came out.

1.2.0 and earlyer is classic, 1.2.1 is oldschool.

[The Specialist]

Is say we all go back to the original versions of the maps.

Also, if fixing these maps are too big of a problem for you Keron, may I� takeover?

[GluLm]

Fix all the maps you ****ing ruined by roofing them in.

I didn't want to. The beta testers all demanded it.

Shame on the beta testers.

I noticed quite a lot of waypoint problems with maps in 1.4 but I was too fed up with this version to write them down and report them.
And I'm quite picky about those actually.
Too bad MM got brain washed by beta testers lately (and among them must be some "arse lickers" I guess... lol).

[Demonic]

Keron fixed the bot waypoints. Roof was added to maps because it was considered bug abusing to fly out of them - though I disagree with removing 'easter eggs', like on Bunker ( though this happened in an earlier version ).

To sum things up, Boxo and Keron were the two fellows who did the most work on the maps ( with Boxo remaking Equinox, Death2 and Keron re-working Nuubia, fixing poly bugs and waypoints ), and some other maps got added by voting. I'm saying this so you guys don't start pulling shit out of your asses and start accusing people randomly.

[The Specialist]

It seems if I help, this process can be speeded up a little. 

I still perfer the original maps.

[Avarax]

i actually expected to see htf_saw in 1.4, the whole MotW committee agreed that it had the highest fun factor of all maps we ever tested there (while factory has a very high one aswell)

http://selfkill.com/webv3/content/cms.php?action=showdetails&id=544&title=Aktuelle%20Meldungen

[DePhille]

Some bots get stuck in the top-center of ctf_Steel.
I saw some "kamis" and "Ghouls" getting stuck there on Avarax's Hexer mod server. However, I'm not sure if this is due to the waypoints or due to the scripts or maybe even a combination of both. Anyway, since I don't play with regular bots I'm not sure of that.

There are also some minor poly's sticking out under which I sometimes get stuck. I know, it's probably my fault because I'm not a good player, but hey . There's a small 'spike' in Arena33, all over to the right of the map, when you're flying up while leaning to the right side. There's another one on Laos, at the Alpha camp, when you're going mid there's a 'spike' hidden under the walk-trough polygons.

PS: Sorry for my crappy mapping-vocabulary.

Grtz, DePhille

[Cookie.]

Perhaps its time to close the hole in the roof on Bunker?  I know it was created as an intentional "easter egg", but its always been pretty annoying when all the noobs run up to the roof.

[Demonic]

It seems if I help, this process can be speeded up a little.

I still perfer the original maps.

Whilst I usually appreciate voluntary help...

...how many maps have you made?
...how many maps have you waypointed?
...how many people play your maps?
...how long have you played?
...and in all honesty, do you think your maps match the standard of the current default maps? :\

[Avarax]

...and in all honesty, do you think your maps match the standard of the current default maps? :\

ava no think dis

[{depth}shaman]

I've noticed a few problems.
1) on a few maps its harder than hell to enter certain tight spaces, and they should be opened up a tad.
     A) Inf_warehouse, the one with the orange biulding for baravo, the windows are too hard  to enter from the air
    B) on the dm (oh shit..... rok?) on the left side of the map its ridiculous trying to enter the second tunnel from the left on top of the plateua. I was playing yesterday and i kept bumcoung out of the entrance when i dashed in.

2) please add more maps to soldat default. I highly reccomend the scenic beauties hosted on mike's realistic servers. Afghanistan 2 has good gameplay especially. also that one, er... with the pipes hanging down to block shots and the place has an african feel and is huge? ill edit this later maybe and be more specific. We added a lot of industrial ctf flag maps, how about adding the best outdoors ones?

[Brok3n Arr0w]

i'm still working on some bot waypoint errors for you keron.�  i just discovered avarax's hexer mod.�  that thing is awesome.� 

off topic--look at the time of post. thats wierd that it hit so perfectly. 

[The Specialist]

I've created only four so far, I only started roughly 3 months ago.  Only one of the maps so far are pretty good and well constructed.  My waypointing skills have improved lately by reading tutorials by Keron and bb_vb.  So I somewhat deem eligible.  I'll have a lot of time to work on them.

[Coolio]

Hey say was Kampf from Soldat 1.3.1 ever fixed up in Soldat 1.4. On the upper part of Kampf in Soldat 1.3.1 if you throw some gernades under you and float alittle above them the gernades will explode and send you flying out of the map if done right. I dont know if this is in still in Soldat 1.4 because my Soldat 1.4 doesn't work at all no more.

[Demonic]

I'll ask it in a different way. We have one of the best ( if not the best ) mapper, Boxo on the team, with the best waypointer, Keron. Time is what Michal doesn't have, not us - what can you, what could you add to that?

[xtishereb]

Well, inf_Outpost doesn't have the death roof anymore, one of my favorite features of it. Why was it removed? It created somewhat of a sense of urgency as you try to avoid getting boosted into the ceiling. Just replace it with some spikes and I'll be happy.

Otherwise, you've done a great job of removing the awesome polybugs, you jerks. Some of us liked getting out of the map, then racing around the outside.
So basically, no real problems as far as I've seen, though I haven't seen much.

[The Specialist]

I guess if you put it in that way, I really can't do anything about it.  All I can do is comment on how you modified the maps. 

By the way, who else is on the team?

[Clawbug]

In Airpirates, a bot is getting stuck in the middle. Let this picture show the excact position: http://www.imagehosting.com/show.php/677398_screenshot0705251.PNG.html

[Snowden]

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4379/mayaedgeeb8.jpg - I am often impeded by this edge when trying to go up. It'd be nice if it were smoothed out.

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8505/b2bcrackgn4.jpg - The crack is visually unappealing.

[The Specialist]

I've been sending Keron personal messages about map having bug/lag reports.  It seems all though the maps have been repaired and fixed, they all still contain some type of flaw in them.

[Keron Cyst]

To be honest, your PMs were kind of annoying. It was a little hard to respond without a harsh tone. You seem to be targeting all the aesthetics (from supremely old classic maps like Bunker, etc.), and all you noted of importance (which Brok3n Arr0w also pointed out and that I've fixed) was a bot problem in ctf_Snakebite's tunnel. THAT's the kind of error I want!

I'm only looking for technical stuff like that, and I've already modified a couple of maps more, so if you started to work on them yourself, some revisions might get lost in the tangle. Just forward all problems to me, with screenshots (that helps a LOT; thanks to Brok3n Arr0w for pinpointing some bot problems on CTF maps). Don't worry about the burden... I can handle it

Oh, and I don't think there's anyone else on the team. Demonic can be counted as a betatesting mapper, I guess, but as for editors who have contributed heavily recently to the default set, Boxo takes the cake with ctf_Equinox, and myself with all the nearly invisible changes for the rest.

GluLm, please take the time to screenshot the bot problems! v1.4.1 may be the last version for a very long time, and it'd suck to see a stupid mistake on my part staining an otherwise brilliant map forever... haha

EDIT Fixed DePhille's ctf_Steel upper waypoint problem (tho' I didn't notice anything wrong—then again, I only playtested after I edited it, heh), and the polygon spike on Arena3's right side. I can't really find the ctf_Laos spike, tho'... a screenshot would really help.

Fixed Clawbug's Airpirates stuck-bot problem.

Fixed Snowden's ctf_Maya overhang (on both sides, since the map's symmetrical) and ctf_B2b crack.

I can't understand Coolio's description; where exactly? Is it in that tiny top-left dead-end? Can you stand on the map's roof?

@xtishereb: it was taken out because it was "useless and impeding to gameplay." I wanted it too But Boxo said that boosters would boost horizontally, not vertically... (how do you boost horizontally tho'?! Diagonally at best, and even then the ceiling may be able to take effect )

Screenshots! Post screenshots of map problems you encounter (unless you can describe them very thoroughly, lol). They are extremely helpful.

[Cookie.]

-=Anyways pre 1.2 you definitely could go from one side of B2B to the other over the top, and sit on the ledges.

[mxyzptlk]

In arena (1), on the top path, in the hole thing that leads into the main area, I have seen bots get stuck often. I don't have screen shot, but I will get one.

[Keron Cyst]

^ Fixed. (You're talking about bots heading down the hole, right?)

[mxyzptlk]

I haven't noticed a difference.

All bots that go that way seem to get stuck.

[Keron Cyst]

Oh... okay, I'll just... playtest with TeamMatch or something, then...
*grumble grumble*

[ds dude]

I don't think there all messed up, Though Airpirates theme looked disturbing.. but waypointing is awsome, the bots actually know what there doing.

[Keron Cyst]

lol, thanks

Dang, there are sooooo many Arena wypt. problems now that I playtest it! Thanks for pointing that out. I'll tackle 'em all now.

[FliesLikeABrick]

I didn't want to. The beta testers all demanded it.

Now why the hell did they do that? Boosting to top of B2B is classic; they might as well demand the removal of the crouchbug.

tells us what kind of person you must be, stay outta my servers.  That kinda crap ruins gameplay and I'd love to hear you try and defend it as "classic"/good

[6th_account]

For years there have been brave men picking an M79 and going the roof route in order to fully surprise the efc in the base with a Stuka attack.

[Clawbug]

For years there have been brave men picking an M79 and going the roof route in order to fully surprise the efc in the base with a Stuka attack.

So there is nothing wrong with it!

ONly thing that in publics, few people tend to go up there with the flag, and newbies are like "wtf? ._."

[Keron Cyst]

Yeah, haha. I'm not going to deny that I did feel a negative pang at the loss of nostalgia when I saw Boxo's (and co.'s) redone version of, in particular, ctf_B2b, in sealing the top. It was really fun to go up there occasionally with an M79 and a SPAS and blindly rain hell on the enemy, but I didn't argue against the added ceilings since I assumed they were to prevent flag-carriers from going up there and mucking up more serious matches (which is a stupid idea to do IMO; I only went up there for fun, not to disturb the flow of the round).

Meh.

[Noldi]

In some of the maps I downloaded, there's some missing scenery...

[Keron Cyst]

Blast it all, you serious? I thought I'd gotten everything. Could you take a screenshot or list exactly what's missing?

[Twistkill]

Oh, another problem I found on Factory: On the same ledge that I mentioned in my previous post, you sometimes spawn with a parachute...

[Keron Cyst]

lol, how odd. (Maybe I should just move the spawn. ) Did you see my post in response to your first notice about Factory? I'd like an answer, or else powerups that fall beneath that bridge will stay there forever unless the server's set to LAN and they can be shot out...

[6th_account]

http://ef.diinoweb.com/files/skoskav/screenshot-07-05-27-1.png

Run straight in that and you'll bounce back. Quite frustrating >_> Same thing on the other side.

[ds dude]

Lol, That does seem frustrating... thank god theres jets in Soldat...

[Eagles_Arrows]

This isn't a polybug or an AI problem, but...



Being a mapper and all, this little "floating" sandbag in Snakebite bothers me a bit every time I play matches on that map.�  This is very simple to fix and takes only around 10 seconds of your time.

[Keron Cyst]

5! Also brought down the left side of the other sandbag in that pic. as well. Fixed 6th_account's polybug on both sides. And, I guess I'll just make the terrain under the left bridge in Factory Normal-type...

[toRch]

hey what about doing this
half transparent? it'd avoid camping so..

[Keron Cyst]

I dunno. I could do that, but that's always been a classic... Heh

[zyxstand]

also on ctf_maya, bots ALWAYS get stuck on the bottom.  If you open the maya image above, right below that corener to be fixed/smoothed, bots keep trying to side-jump up and always get stuck.  Noticed that with hexer mod bots.
Also, on B2b, it's pointless to make the roof kill you.  If you have flag it just gets stuck and is incredibly difficult to get out.

[DePhille]

The bots get stuck at the top middle of CTF_Steel.

Another 'polybug' would be one of the pillars in ctf_Laos:

I always get stuck behind the poly underneath that pillar.

Also, there are alot of bridges that bounce you up when you run over them too fast or land on them too hard. I'm afraid this is a Soldat bug, but you might try making the bridges a bit thicker and see if that helps.

Grtz, DePhille

[Demonic]

^ That's not a polybug; if it weren't there, you could spray / blind shot the spawn easily. That prevents this abuse.

[DePhille]

Yeah, that's why I used accents. But can't you make a colliding polygon to the right of that pillar. It will still prevent the spray and it will also prevent me from getting stuck in there with the flag again .

Grtz, DePhille

[Snowden]

Also, there are alot of bridges that bounce you up when you run over them too fast or land on them too hard. I'm afraid this is a Soldat bug, but you might try making the bridges a bit thicker and see if that helps.

If this could somehow be fixed it would be much appreciated.

[The Specialist]

With all the bouncy polygon bugs, most of them can be fixed by recompiling them with PolyWorks.

[Demonic]

^ Nope. All maps were recompiled with polyworks, and polybugs remain and fester. If a polygon is narrower than one grid square, or more than 2 verticles meet in one spot, it becomes bouncy. This is why MM made the maps so the polygons overlap each other a bit, because then there are no or less polybugs - during the map fixes, some verticles were moved and created new polybugs.

[Keron Cyst]

I'll set the type of that ctf_Laos overhang to Only-Bullets-Collide, then... satisfy both Demonic and DePhille!

... there are alot of bridges that bounce you up when you run over them too fast or land on them too hard....

Bridges, as in ctf_B2b? I think those already overlap to the best possible vertex positions. What maps in particular?

... during the map fixes, some verticles were moved and created new polybugs.

Like what? If I can't get screenshots or at least map names, I'm gonna be here for a while...

[The Specialist]

Then the polygon bugs can only be properly fixed by placing the polygons in a different way.

[Eagles_Arrows]

CTF_Laos, Bravo Platform:

[Demonic]

Then the polygon bugs can only be properly fixed by placing the polygons in a different way.

Thank you for repeating what I said.

Keron, my main concern was nuubia, which was totally bug free before, and there are some problems in both bravo and alpha main platforms - but since Anna's giving it a re-run, you need not worry about it.

[InfS]

Not sure if this has been posted yet.. I think the map is Arena 2, you can walk right through a piece of land at the bottom.

P.S. I'll post a pic when I get home, at work right now.

[Demonic]

^Confirmed.

[The Specialist]

In some maps in the section where it contains the map description it would just say the name of the map.  For example, for "ctf_Laos", when you try it in-game, it would say the description of "Laos".  For some maps they say messages such as "dm Erbium by The Geologist" for example.  Clearly, that map isn't intended for deathmatch, its for Hold the Flag.  We can remove the message and just have it entitle "Erbium" or "Erbium  - The Geologist" or something similar to that.

[Toumaz]

There's an issue in ctf_Dropdown2 that I don't really know if it's to be considered as a map bug; but I find it rather exploitable at least.




Fair enough, it's averagely hard to actually do it - but it is possible and really annoying when somebody really lands it.

[InfS]

^Confirmed.

Thanks Demonic.

[VirtualTT]

I think there is two main problems with most of the *default* maps:

• They don't offer proper possibilities for movement and use of weapons. Shooting enemy in the face, or with some random law or barrett shoot is maximum for them... There are two choice in this situation: 1. Removing all weapons except 2-3 since�  variety of weapon's properties aren't used. 2. Modifying/replacing default maps with new ones, that will have proper layout to give all weapons chance to show their unique value.
• Unacceptable visual quality. Basically everage default map is just a pile of polygons. And what is more important there is almost no affirmative changes in this direction.

[Eagles_Arrows]

Unacceptable visual quality. Basically everage default map is just a pile of polygons. And what is more important there is almost no affirmative changes in this direction.

Typical of you to say, VTT. 

[Demonic]

Don't offer proper possibilities? What do you want to do in 2D? Plus weapons go in 3 main categories, one shot killers, autos or semi-autos, what kind of variety do you want? And how are maps going to change that? Or have you found a way to add a third dimension? Do let us know.

Unacceptable visual quality? Lol? It's a simple game. Sure, the maps aren't nerd-erecters like Jessica Alba, but they are not distracting either. Generally the optical wonders have severe problems; they either lag up slower computers ( which is quite stupid for a 2D game that takes 16mb-s space ), they are full of polybugs ( because our 'pro' mappers keep forgetting that a proper polygon structure is more important than a flashy 3D effect ) or just generally have a crap layout. Come on, Nuubia was the most popular map in 1.3-1.3.1, and it barely had any scenery at all! Looks are not as important as you think.

[Keron Cyst]

I purposely changed those polygons in Arena2 to Doesn't-Collide so movement would be more efficient in that area. If it's too nostalgia-wrecking for you I'll revert it

Fixed The Specialist's Long Description typo.

... Nuubia was the most popular map in 1.3-1.3.1, and it barely had any scenery at all! Looks are not as important as you think.

Erm... that's kind of why a lot of stuff was added (and has since also been heavily tweaked)... I mean, I don't care if it looks like Arena (that's fine with me), but just a few colors cloned throughout an entire map, nearly no texture-stretching whatsoever, and only one scenery graphic! Sheesh...

BTW, what are the polybug problems on that thing? Unless you've heard something directly from her, I only said that Anna approved of it, not that she's editing it personally (unfortunately, heh)

[InfS]

As for that polygon, you could always just remove it entirely... although it is a fun spot to camp now

[Demonic]

...please change back Arena2. It was perfectly fine to move through, why did you change it? What ever gave you the impression that the change is needed? And we found it by chance in a duel, no mention anywhere. I love that you're enthusiastic with helping, but it'd be fine if you wouldn't go Mossad on us with your work.

I got stuck in the wall of nuubia for the very first time in 1.4. Also, the added texture stretching was perfectly unneeded and it made it quite ugly - and here I was wondering why is it like I'm playing drunk.. it was perfect the way Troskal made it. That, plus you pulled those changes through without asking the lot of us' opinion on it. Bad move x2.

[Keron Cyst]

Ha. I'll revert it, but shouldn't it be flattened a bit, then? It really feels like it achieves nothing except impede movement.

You said yourself that you liked the scenery added! (To ctf_Nuubia) I guess I'll regress the textures, but the decision on it overall was split really, although I seem (not sure) to remember that more people liked/didn't care of it than those who actively opposed it. If you insist, we could always put a poll in Gen. Disc., here.

[Demonic]

As I see it, you can do the modifications if you show them before it gets released. I thought you added like, two trees or some lianas at best...

The arena2 polygon is there because you can duck between the two, protecting yourself a bit from gunfire. It's like a mini-trench.

[The Specialist]

I've had the thought of removing Horve's "Factory".�  The reason I think of this is because the map itself is small and it is kind of crowded because the map structure is based on tunnels.�  Because it is built on this, it can� cause a lot of spraying and it just isn't very good game-play.

My suggestion is to remove it and then re-add one of Horve's other maps.�  I suggest "Flesh" because it is just an incredible map and has excellent game-play.

[6th_account]

Just remembered that kampf and snakebite have horrible spawnpoints. Often as you spawn you fall down immediatly from some edge.

[Snowden]

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9616/screenshot0706012pj0.jpg

[InfS]

What about this little spot in Flashback.. I have a feeling it could have been on purpose though...

[Keron Cyst]

Uhhhh, no, lol. Thanks.

Fixed all of the above except The Specialist's idea... it's too late into v1.4.1 for such a change, and many like Factory anyways

EDIT Way too late, it seems. Thanks for all of your critiques! Expect it soon.

[The Specialist]

Its not that I don't like Factory, its a well made map.  I only suggested it because Horve has created better maps than Factory, such as Flesh.

[Keron Cyst]

Well, it's too late, anyways. It seemed like he was kind of demanding the map files so I assume v1.4.1 will be here very quickly Thanks again, all.