Possible large bug in 1.4.1

[Poop]

I posted this in this forum because not many people check the bugs forum and I want other people to look for this problem while they are playing, just to have a good idea of how many people have this problem.

Ive asked around about this situation now, so I know I'm not the only one that has this problem and I know not everyone has it. So I'm assuming its a bug.

Basically, some people cannot see the opponents bullets when the opponent is really close to you. This is especially the case with the weapons ruger and steyr (But applies to other weapons also, I just noticed it happening more often with ruger and steyr). You will be half a screen away from the opponent, and die by 2 invisible shots of ruger. Its extremely random in terms of the shots you see and don't see. For example, sometimes you will see the first 2 shots and then not see the next 2 shots, when almost nothing in terms of distance has changed.  Also, you cannot see nades or knife alot of the time. And sometimes you will respawn in the middle of the map.

I changed my bullet graphics and font to the stuff I like, however I dont think this is the culprit, since another player who has the problem did not change his bullet graphics or font. Some players who have the problem have reinstalled soldat, tried installing the patch, full version, and even deleting the whole soldat folder and reinstalling it. Nothing has worked.

[Demonic]

Soldat now shows bullets accordingly to lag. What does this mean? That if someone with 50 ping shoots a bullet, his bullet will start off 0.05 seconds away from him. This results in better hit registration, as less information will be lost, because the bullet will have to travel less - or in other words, less data is risked to being lost. With bigger pings, this ofcourse means more of a difference; at 200 ping, the thing goes quite excessive. We played some japanese guys today, and I didn't see their bullets; but I know that they haven't seen mine either, so we were equal.

[Poop]

and I didn't see their bullets; but I know that they haven't seen mine either, so we were equal.

Thats not true though. I played with illskills yesterday in a NA gather. Ills has dialup so he has 166-200 ping, I have cable and 16-33 ping. Basically, I couldn't see most of illskills bullets (He was using ruger the whole time and I couldn't see his bullets around 60% of the time), however he could see all of mine. I asked him countless times whether he could see bullets, and he said yes each time.

This is a disadvantage to people who wont see the opponents bullets. Especially in a case like I just mentioned, if one person can see your bullets but you cannot see their bullets, that is a disadvantage for you.

The way you basically explained is it that if you have 50 ping, the bullet starts off .05 seconds away from you, and if you have 200 ping, im assuming it would start .2 second away from you. So the person whose ping is higher will have invisible bullets starting off further from him than a person whose ping is lower. Isn't this obviously a significant advantage to someone who has a higher ping, as his bullets are invisible more often/longer than someone with lower ping. Also, how would you explain the fact that 2 players with similiar pings. 1 doesn't see someone's bullets while the other does?

[Will]

Well demonic thats a wierd way of getting things right. That combined with the uber warping has ruined the game for me...

[InfS]

I saw this the other day with Steyr in a death match.. The guy had ~133-166 ping, but his bullets were completely invisible.

[Aji]

Do you see bullets when somebodys shooting at you in real life? (And shut up about soldat being more of an arcade game, next one who says "do you use jets in real war?" gets official "Aji's retardation"-stamp)
No, you don't.
I don't understand why it's that big of a deal anyways.

[Will]

Dude it's a deal because the other person sees them and you don't. So  stfu. And I mean it.
The thing about soldat was it was always balanced. But now it's not balanced and not only because of the weapons.ini but because of the actual gameplay issues. So I don't see a point what graphics has to do with hit registering??? Could someone like a beta tester or something answer us puny little people (pirates)

EDIT: Pirates > ninjas
Pirates <3

[NinjaGimp369]

Oh man, that really sucks. Gotta tell my brother to stop fucking downloading.

[Amigo]

Demonic is cocksucker

[Michal Marcinkowski]

Demonic explained it right. It is actually correct right now. There are just no visuals to show how the bullet moved so it looks like they are invisible and just appear when players with high ping shoot.

[Amigo]

MM lazy bitch fix it

[Mandlc]

So the point is that it's not going to be fixed? I don't know then why some players, including me, get it and why others don't? It should be equal and same for everyone, there's no point that I don't see opponent's bullets and he can sees mine perfectly. Plus it made game boring, it's pointless to use m79 since you can't dodge to the bullets... I tried soldat again 10 minutes ago and when i went to bravo team on laos, look where i spawned: www.freeweb.siol.net/mandlc/wtflaos.jpg

Anyway I agree with everyone who says that 1.4.0 was way more playable and fun, less warpy and laggy... It'll make some players quit soldat just because of that.. and yeah it's easy for testers to say: "it's almost nothing, no changes", since many of them play soldat 10 minutes per month and don't really care about it, just to lick up others. I have been playing it for almost 4 years, never had any problems with it but this is awful..

hercculli about my whining

(13:33:17) (HerculeP) i played like 2 times 1.4.1 and ppl warp like all the time...
(13:33:27) (Mandlc) yea
(13:33:30) (Mandlc) it sucks
(13:33:34) (Mandlc) i wont play it anymore
(13:33:38) (HerculeP) i see someone going flag on voland few secs and they are up level...
(13:33:41) (HerculeP) same here ;G

[Hercule Poirot]

stop whining mandlc and play mens! :Q

[Demonic]

Why was this moved? This isn't a bug, this is a new feature. Some of you beta testers may remember it from earlier versions, it was named 'show real lag', but in the end it didn't get implemented ( 1.3 or 1.3.1 if I recon right ).

I think this isn't that much of an advantage, it's not like you can effectively dodge auto spray. Other dodge manuevers still help, because you are ditching the crosshair, not the bullets - you don't need to see the enemy fire to do that, just look at your hp to see whetever he's hitting you or not.

When I said it's equal for both, I meant that it's equal if we have around the same ping. The warping will probably settle down as the server version's updated, don't worry about that ( plus now you warp the way that we thought you were when we whined that you fellows are unkillable Show real lag ftw ).

[FliesLikeABrick]

Why was this moved? This isn't a bug, this is a new feature.

this forum is also for getting help

[Demonic]

But this is a feature, not a bug. He's not needing help, it's more about discussing the - oh what ever.

[Sero]

This is so pathetic.. I tried soldat yesterday, ppl just warp with 33 ping and nades doesnt deal dmg at all, just boosting enemy away.. GL & HF!

[Amigo]

Fu Demonic u suck :Q

Fix it kknp.

[Poop]

Demonic, I think your in fantasy world here if you think this does not provide that much of an advantage or make a difference in gameplay.

I don't know about you people, but for me, a major part of competitive soldat is counting opponents bullets and rushing when they run out of ammo. A major part is dodging bullets (And yes you can dodge autos also). A major part is dodging nades and knives and m79. And pressing prone right when that barret or law shot is about to hit you. How can you do this you can't see bullets? Are you going to dodge it after your health goes down to 0% after being hit by one of those bullets Demonic? 

Not only this, but it is unfair because it happens randomly to some people and doesn't effect others, even WITH similar ping. Also, you even admit that this is an advantage to players with high ping since low ping players cannot see bullets of high ping players but high ping players can see bullets of low ping players..

Either it should be the same for every player, or it should not be implemented at all. This "feature" will be a disadvantage to the people it randomly decides to effect.

[MWTBDLTR]

it's not like you can effectively dodge auto spray.

If you know what your doing, its not hard. 

Imagine how HUGE of a problem this is going to be with m79's.  I have pink m79 shells, and i manage to dodge about 50-70% of them. This is going to cause a MAJOR disadvantage to those who cannot see the shells. 

And yes, like poop said, planning when an enemy is reloading and attacking is another huge part of the game. 

This to me is going to cause nothing but problems.

[Keiran]

Well this is going to be an interesting SCTFL playoffs. Weee invisible nades!

[GluLm]

Ok, after I read this I think I'm going back to play 1.3.1 and stop crying for a while.
 :/

[alexoner]

this has fucked soldat..

fix it, please...

god oh god..

change it back..

invisible bullets, or hits that dont reg..


i'll choose hits that dont reg.. invivible bullets its beyond stupid...

very fuckin stupid... it really has pissed me off but yeah..

[Prisma]

Got something to add.. and i dont know if it compares with the title.. however

I just shot on a guy with Ruger; he and me didnt move anyhow. Actually I shot and DIDNT hit him, but he died anyway. Is this the new hit detection?

[Misiooo]

This bug was the first serious i noticed after patching to 1.4.1. Even like 5%-10% own my own rugger shots and nades are invisible for me..

[Amigo]

Told ya guys that Demonic is cocksucker. U didnt believe me!

Btw. Demonic fix ur "add-on" asshole.

[alexoner]

btw if you expect people to pay more for reg with this version.. you must be having a laugh..

i would pay more for 1.2 to be the final version but yeah.. w/e

[Amigo]

Just use Nic Vogler ffs

[Demonic]

In matches with players who had unequal pings there had always been an argument whetever who has the advantage. The guy with the higher, or  the guy with the lower ping. Now it's clear, ( for you atleast: I still don't see that much of a problem with it, then again, I've never been MEGA SCTFL SUPER ÃœBER PRO ) however the part which matters most has been fixed, and that's the hit registration. Lots of more shots register thanks to the invisible bullets, if you aim it according to ping, and in the end it will come down to which player is more used to playing with lag.

Whine all you want, call me a *** ( like that'll help.. ): the version stays, the players can pass away.


You can turn this off in soldat.ini's ShowRealLag= option!

[Ichiro]

Be proud that you made a perfect hit-registeration feature, and lose most of the players from the community <3

PS: That fake feature does not work for everyone, straight knife hits  (that even a big lagger 'd be killled by in every version) from inches not registered. Just an example.

[alexoner]

yeah, more hit regs?

i see no change.. i still hit people alot and they dont die, mind you that has allways eben a problem but i have learnt to live with it..

but invisible bullets and nades on the other hand.. thats a different story, whilst i was playing on a na server i couldent even see my own bullets, making it really hard to aim..

and demonic, dont be an idiot (no offence).. you dont have to be a 'MEGA SCTFL SUPER ÃœBER PRO' to notice how bollox this version has become.. seriously, you dont notice the difference.. but hundreds other do.. and im sure if it effected you as it did compared alot of other people, you would also want to see a change..

'the version stays' - we'll see.. 1.4.1 has a built in auto update/download thingy-ma-bob.. so considering that, its pretty likely there will be fix.. (everyone hopes)

[mar77a]

Correct me if this is wrong: are you complaining that higher ping players can now play in the same conditions with low ping players?

[alexoner]

well i had high ping in na server, playing vs na people.. so i guess there ping was average, mine was around 130-160.. when it was me and only 1 enemy on screen, i saw half of their bullets from aug, but when there were more players on the screen at once, all firing, i coulden't see any bullets, or nades, from anyone.. not even my own..

ok, so tell me.. how is this a 'feature'? making it impossible to dodge, aim decent, etc..

[PANZERCATWAGON]

PANZERCATWAGON is generally pleased by the implementation of invisible bullets as they provide a source of vast distress and complaining amoungst the Soldat community which causes displeasure in the minds of many people.

He also suggests invisible gosteks are implemented to further vex the community so far as to even possibly reach a level of being pissed off their tits.

[iQuit]

*snip*

Naughty naughty!

[alexoner]

gigen for president!!!

[Ouchek]

Is he the "chick" on the top

Date Posted: June 04, 2007, 07:04:47 PMIs he the "chick" whose getting impaled?

[iQuit]

the one being injected is MM, im that boy and that girl on the left is MM's girlfriend

[Ichiro]

nice tatoo there you know

Date Posted: June 04, 2007, 07:07:00 PMdont even try to remove 'the truth' !!! or we'll bomb ya with brit french and italian!

[Clawbug]

Oh yeah, once I tought that Soldatforums were LOW, only noobs around here.. Well, see what happens when the "pro-scene" jumps over here.

Soo, ShowRealLag is FINALLY working? Wasn't there a shortcut-key for it in pre 1.4.1 versions atleast, F[1-12] something?

Can this be disabled from client side, on the fly? Hopefully there will be /showreallag 0/1, and taunt it.

[FliesLikeABrick]

The next person to spam or flame in this topic gets a 3-day ban, if not more.

[Mandlc]

It's not about flaming or spamming guys, you still don't get it. Many european players, who are active and play at least 1 hour soldat per day, who participate in most important leagues, cups (TNL, SCTFL, TPC), who used to have fun playing it.. are NOT satisfied with it. There must be something wrong if you don't see the nade? Come on... not seeing enemy nades? I don't think that's normal for a game like that. And there were many other bugs and things on versions before and we have never complained about anything, but this is more than a problem. How come that other 2d games don't lag that much and that players can see bullets and nades of each other... Please fix it somehow.. and if you don't believe that it's annoying, I'll get a list of at least 300 players who have been in more than 3 clans and play soldat more than 2 years and think same as me.

[Will]

I really don't think that this so called "feature" was really needed. maybe you thought it will be revolutionary, but actually it just slowed things donw. I've noticed a HUGE increase in ping when there's a big shootout involvig three or more people. The 1.4.0 was fine, there were some grenade problems with some peple but it was as normal as previous versions, just the newbs over exagarated things. But now it's like, man I dunno, never seen a game that lags as much as soldat these days. I played war rock, enemy territory, battle field and other fps games that dindn't lag as much... even the game maker made games that have online multiplay are better

[Amigo]

Demonic and FliesLikeAFuckingIdiotNoob are assholes.

Fix it already!

I play Soldat more than 2 weeks and I know its a problem!

[n00bface]

It's wonky for me too.  Can't see my own shots sometimes even on NA servers, NO CHANCE on European servers. 

I like the idea for a clientside option to enable/disable ShowRealLag.  That way everyone has a choice.

[Demonic]

You can disable it server side, so if all clan servers were to disable it...

but then again I guess you fellows are better off with flaming Michal and the beta testers than fixing it yourselfes, right, right.

[Leo]

Hmm.. if I disable ShowRealLag from server side it effects the clients or every client must disable it individually ?

[Mandlc]

silly question for a beta tester... if it's disabled or enabled on the server, it affects the client automatically

[Leo]

Actually I just found out that it can't be disabled.

[truup]

Here we see it again, how shit the beta testing team really is. They are beta testers just to brag with the rights. Seriously, how can shit like this be added? I though there was active clan community players too in the team, but it doesn't look like that. I saw a few topics where some flaming on some new bugs and features were flamed, and I just saw beta testers laughing or flaming them back. Demonic is a beta tester too I guess and here he is just defending this crap, and flaming others too.

I haven't myself played this new version at all yet, but I believe this feature is carbage, since so many players from the clan community is posting here about it. I just don't get it -  what I understood is that when enemy shoots, his bullets starts moving from another point. Well, if you can calculate that 'right' point, then why isn't the player appearing there? Is it harder to calculate player position than bullet? I don't think so.

Wtf, invisible bullets? What's the fucking point? That's insane.

And what comes to MM... He didn't answer my pm. Why? Propably cause I'm not registered, and maybe he noticed that Im not willing to register.

This whole thing is like the old sentence 'the rats are leaving the sinking ship', MM is leaving the sinking ship, which in this case, is Soldat. He's trying to get all the money he can from new players by adding some carbage which will make them happy. And it did. See those new topics like "THANKS MM I LOVE YOU" from the NEW PLAYERS. As you see, the old players, most of the clan community, are very unsatisfied with it. I think the only forum MM is checking is help and shareware forum, since he can help customers that can't pay. Well that's logigal if you love money.

1.3.2? It was supposed to save the clanwar community somehow, by adding BE and fixing few serious bugs. But then, one beautiful day, MM decided to drag some more money He added features for new players who would have paid for it. Yea just nvm the clan community... Why didn't he just release bug fix version, as he was going to do, and then make 1.4 for the new players? Maybe he just wanted money?

However, I read one of Demonic's posts, and I understood, that you are trying to MAKE advantage for the one with more/less lagg, Im not sure which. Well shouldn't it be for the one who has less ping?

[SpiltCoffee]

What's the point of having real lag if your server is low ping? lol.

[GluLm]

I love you truup for what you've posted here.
Although I disagree about how you treat Demonic as a scapegoat (and yeah, I think he's got used to it by now, hehe -private joke-), I agree with most of your points.

I feel very bad about 1.4.x. Why did MM have to touch it graphically? I mean it was pretty good already, the kill console is completely screwed up now, you can't even mod it because tweaking the font sizes scrambles everything up even more. I'm not talking about the bullets or several other stuffs, it would take too much time.

Getting back on topic: this version suffers from lag which is even more awful than before. I don't call this version a bug fix... >_>

[MORTUS]

but this is why people get ping kicked, like MM said, its correct now,
just because before in 1.4 we saw the bullet coming then it killed us then it hit us, now we just dont see the bullet coming,
so stop whining, would you like it if you had fucking created something and spent alot fo tme doing it, then  you whining little noobs come along and ripp him for a small thing?
this problem wont exist in 1.5
and plus, every1 will get the grid soon (wikipedia grid if ur thick) so there wont be such thing as a ping above 3, so chill out
and just play on high ping servers against high ping players.

[Will]

Dude you got it all wrong.


I agree with truup. Altough I don't want to insult MM because he put so much time and effort in this and I understand that he probably thought that this will improve the game. I think I just got registered at the wrong time. And I don't regret it for all of the time spent playing and modding the previous version. I just don't think that this bersion deserves the registration as the previous ones did...

[truup]

Sure he put effort on it, but oh c'mon - invisible bullets? Maybe what he meant was good, but this isn't good. Does MM deserve anything, like acception here anyway? He gets a lot of money from this game. To me it looks like it's the only thing he cares about. Well, sure I have spend lots of hours with Soldat, and I have to thank MM for giving me the fun, but if you can say thanks for good things, then why can't you say "badly" when he creates something bad, or something that sucks? Don't honor anyone blindly.

And specially in this case, invisibile bullets, that's seriously boredom. You seriously cant think that invisible bullets will improve the game.

What about that huge warp everyone is complaining? It's not MM's fault, it's the betatesting team, which is supposed to be active and find out things like that before the release. Though I think MM has chosen this betatesting team, or I dunno who manages it. Not to mention those new random betatesters who was played soldat for few months.

Don't tell me this warp was added on purpose. ._.

[alexoner]

well, invisible bullets were put in on purpose.. might aswell add vehicles (preferably if they're not invisible too)..

edit: btw.. this so called feature.. everyone thinks it's a bug.. doesn't that say enough?

[MWTBDLTR]

Can we just do a quickie update to be able to enable/disable this?  And by that i mean disable it.   

[Michal Marcinkowski]

Everything was explained by the first reply by Demonic - http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=15426.msg174766#msg174766

If you do not understand this, please don't post just showing your ignorance.

This improvement fixed bullets not hitting you (especially missed M79 bullet and nades)

If bullets don't hit you, you are not affected by them that means that although the server registers hits and they kill you, your movement is not affected by the bullets which is cheating. For example the push you get from spas is now correct and you can use it more effecitively on the enemy.

All games with projectile bullets like Soldat use this system. They just compensate it visually. Soldat doesn't do that, hence it looks like the bullets are appearing out of nowhere. I regret not adding this visual effect and for sure I'll do something about it in the next version.

Warping is another issue. I did not "add" it, it needs fixing.

[Illuminatus]

[...] I'll do something about it in the next version.

Warping is another issue. I did not "add" it, it needs fixing.

thats all I wanted to hear. thank u 

[treeSkwerrral]

Hey everyone I just have one question...can any of yall HEAR this gunfire? Cause I mean anyone ever play R/S. I don't remember seeing many people on that. I just LISTEN for a person with my SPEAKERS and look that way and shoot. Honestly quit whining everyone and adapt or die. GOD I'm tired of hearing people whine about stupid shit like this. I've played this game a while and I don't like some stuff but I don't complain cause I know MM works hard on this game. Hell I'm not even smart enough to  figure out how to make the damned maps much less code the game. If yall are gonna complain about something every other game uses then quit playing computer games or make your own without this feature. Oh and as for the moron that said he goes prone for a sniper shot...how the hell can you move that fast anyways? I hear the shot before I see it and I die too fast to even react. Now I do understand ANYONE who would complain about the visual because of the nades and m79 but MM said he's adding in this next version so don't complain about it. Bottom line if you don't like this don't PLAY it. This is a FREE game you paid NOTHING for it so don't complain. Go whine about counter strike or halo but leave MM alone. By the way MM do you actually even make much from this game? I just wondered cause I don't see many people registered compared to how many complain about it. I registered and am happy with it thx for the higher res option I like it.

[who flung poo]

you make a good point, but was it really enough to revive this old topic? jw

offtopic: Amigo, what is your problem with Demonic and FliesLikeABrick? there the best moderators around