opinions on the ruger

[BrTarolg]

probably my most used weapon atm.. im interested into what people think about the ruger

most people hate playing against good ruger users, but they never complain because it "takes skill to aim"

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i find it amusing that nobody complains aobut what i beleive is a horrifically overpowered weapon because
a> not enough people know how to aim with it
b> people accept that its ok to have a really powerful weapon if its hard to aim with

i mean it has quite alot going for it

-it has a REALLY high dps, similar to HK shooting at point blank range, since it only takes two shots to kill

-it has the potential to kill 2 people per clip <assuming you can aim properly>

-it has a practical range of the entire screen

-it has a REALLY fast reload time <given its dps>

-it has a really fast bullet, and an "undodgeable one" assuming you can aim

-its still a 2 hit kill shooting in the head or the feet

-it still has the ability to retain its accuracy even whilst moving around loads <im not sure if this is because i just let go of all the buttons the moment i shoot or something>

-its still awesome at close range because you cant miss, and because it STILL beats the other autos in terms of DPS and the other shotters <because it shoots faster than a shotgun and deagles got nerfed ages ago to a 3 hit kill or a 2 hit w headshot>

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so tell me, why doesnt anyone ever complain about the ruger? id like to know from you guys what disadvantages you think it has which counterbalance all these pros

off the top of my head i can think of two
a> you need to learn to aim
b> it isnt the same as one shotting?

[Lord Frunkamunch]

-its still a 2 hit kill shooting in the head or the feet

Nope, 3 hit kill to anywhere but head and upper torso.

-it still has the ability to retain its accuracy even whilst moving around loads <im not sure if this is because i just let go of all the buttons the moment i shoot or something>

Yeah, that and bink are the 2 things that balance it. You have to let go unless you want the movement acc. to nail you. Overall, I think it can be a bit overpowered in the hands of a pro, as there's just about nothing you can do about it and any situation, unless you can bink them and still stay at a range where they can't hit you, you're just dead too fast if the user's accurate enough.

[StANDY]

The problem that i find although i like the rugger is that if someone can aim with the sniper rifle then your dead. Its a shame though it tends to happen alot in games, The sniper rifle seems to be more usefull than the rifle.

[Twistkill]

Back in 1.3.1, I started using the Ruger instead of the Barrett or Minimi in larger maps to balance out my auto usage. Now with + 2 damage, and only 3 movementacc compared to the Minimi's 4 or the Barrett's 7, it seems to be quite strong nowadays...

I'm not implying that it's overpowered, but it's easier to use than everyone claims it to be, and it's quite popular. It has a high enough speed that you don't have to adjust your cursor, only at a screen's distance, and it's not exactly hard to aim at medium range. It pretty much beats out every other weapon at medium to long range with the exception of the Barrett, due to the fact that the Ruger doesn't have a steady stream of bullets like autos for binking - it has 4 quick shots. I picked it up and started getting decent with it within a month - while it took me about 5 months before that to get good with the Minimi.

[6th_account]

-its still a 2 hit kill shooting in the head or the feet

Nope, 3 hit kill to anywhere but head and upper torso.

It's not as simple as where you hit. Range, elevation and the player's velocity are also factors for the bullets' speed. And depending on the elevation, some areas are harder to hit than others.
http://wiki.soldat.nl/Health


Anyhoo, there's very little constructive feedback from threads like this. The argument "I think it's balanced cause it good at this but bad at this" is sooo crude and wouldn't hold up to +/- of a single unit in, say, damage.
The beta testers that are involved in the balancing already are aware of the things that would be said here. The problem is tweaking the gun those last units to fit in with every other weapon.

I ain't gonna lock it though, cause I wanna see 4-year-old write his baised, angry, racial slurs. =)

[Twistkill]

Anyhoo, there's very little constructive feedback from threads like this. The argument "I think it's balanced cause it good at this but bad at this" is sooo crude and wouldn't hold up to +/- of a single unit in, say, damage.
The beta testers that are involved in the balancing already are aware of the things that would be said here. The problem is tweaking the gun those last units to fit in with every other weapon.

What do you want us to comment on, then? How pretty the gun gfx looks?

Members: "Oh, I think Ruger is balanced because..." (Or vice-versa)

You: "The people involved with weapon balancing already know all the issues with Ruger and are aware of all things said here."

Therefore, we no longer have a need for this section. I mean, we don't to comment on anything anymore because you guys apparently aren't taking any advice from the community.

[6th_account]

What do you want us to comment on, then? How pretty the gun gfx looks?

How you'd like the ruger to behave. Perhaps a guaranteed 3-hit kill but only two thirds of it's fireinterval? Go nuts with cool ideas.
Or just discuss the current ruger and come to a conclusion wether it's overused, too often a 2-hit kill or needs a tad shorter reload.

Therefore, we no longer have a need for this section.

Kinda not true. Though many mods wanted to lock this section, but I wanted to keep it for democratic reasons. Nevertheless joor job is to gather forth the oppinion of the general public. We won't do a drastic change if it goes against the public.

[Noobinabox]

In realistic mode, the recoil is crazy.

[Clawbug]

Smaler fireinterval, smaller damage. Longer fireinterval higher damage. It's DPS NEEDS to be reduced in some way.

...unless it is SO literally meant to be semis > autos > oneshotkillers... Ruger beats deages in 1v1 situation unlesss deagles are very close and have height advantage.

More bink? Maybe yes. Make movementacc to affect more when not pressing the keys. Make it affected more of the Soldiers speed. Kills rushing barretts and rushing rugers.

[a-4-year-old]

It is such a royal pain in the ass to aim with the ruger, so it is a respectable weapon, then again, most everything is a royal pain in the ass to aim with, so there is a much larger learning curve to this game then there used to be.

[TBDM]

most of the time ruger is a 3hitKill

i lioke the ruger, nothing against it, i like using it and know how hard it is, people who bitch about it don't have skillsand are just plain stupid.
i respect Ruger Users.

[Cappy]

I find it a hard weapon to aim with, although I think it was much harder before 1.4 came out. At least I can kill with it now. 

[Wormdundee]

It's mostly 3 hit kills? I'm probably the person who is most experienced with the ruger through the history of soldat, and in the last few versions it does seem to be mostly 2 hit kills. Maybe I just always hit the upper body or something but even if it is 2 hit kills is it really that overpowered?

It was mentioned that you can kill 2 people with 1 clip. Yeh, if you hit all 4 shots in the high damage areas with high velocity. If you miss a SINGLE shot against 2 people you are dead. Unless you're good with the nades. Also, I would say that every other weapon has the capability of getting at least 2 kills per clip. Probably more than that for some weapons. The mp5 for sure is a 2 person killer at closish range, and it doesn't matter if you miss a couple bullets. And it's reload is almost as fast as the rugers.

Another point is the bink. If someone with a machine gun gets the first shot in on you, its fairly likely you're going to miss if you fire back right away.

One thing I could think of is maybe putting the moveacc higher to make it harder to aim while moving at high speeds. But then, moving at extremely high speeds is one of the only ways to get away from the machine gunners getting in your face and binking you all to hell.

So, I think the ruger might seem overpowered in the hands of a pro because they will most likely have their aim down to where they almost never miss a shot. And then you get kicked for 'hacking'

Still, I think its a fairly balanced weapon besides some little tweaks that could be made to it. But maybe I'm just biased.

[Clawbug]

It is such a royal pain in the ass to aim with the ruger, so it is a respectable weapon, then again, most everything is a royal pain in the ass to aim with, so there is a much larger learning curve to this game then there used to be.

You dont learn the game as fast as you learn to aim. Aiming with primary weapon is secondary, nades are which kill, not the primaries.

And even if you can kill, go to a 3v3 CTF CW against a good clan and you see how bad player you really are.

Date Posted: July 08, 2007, 05:06:15 PM

It's mostly 3 hit kills? I'm probably the person who is most experienced with the ruger through the history of soldat, and in the last few versions it does seem to be mostly 2 hit kills. Maybe I just always hit the upper body or something but even if it is 2 hit kills is it really that overpowered?

Which weapon can kill rugerer who can kill with two hits?


No matter if it is good in a hands of pro, as long as it is OVERPOWERED in a hands of pro it should be nerfed. It is only weapon which can reward a good and dedicated player so well. Deagles may come second to that.

[BrTarolg]

ok personally ive never known ruger to be a three hit...

the vast, vast majority its 2 hit, and any time its 3 hit i am attributing it to lag

maybe its cause always 1 out of my two shots hits the body.

either way, making it three hit kill is the same nerf that you give to deagles, which really would suck <as of the moment, i really beleive deagles are underpowered, going from 2hit to 3 hit is a really big change>

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either way i think the main problem is really the face that the time it takes to kill someone isnt actually the time it takes to do 2 shots, but actually the time it takes to do 1 shot + the time nbefore you can fire another one

since the other guy is already dead once youve shot the second shot <if you hit> then the rest of the lag you need for the next shot is negligble <unless youre fighting 2v1>

yeah just lower its DPS. moveacc maybe, huge bink is probably overdoing it. increased time between shots or increased reload perhaps?

maybe its because i used to be a HK uesr and all of a sudden it feels like ruger is that much better.

[truup]

..........

I just don't get it. Is ruger supposed to be somekind of megapwn weapon if you can handle it? Imo not.

Based on what I have read here and stuff, Ruger requires a lot more skill than other weapons. Well if you happen to have that, you will pwn everyone with it. Even some player that is more skilled with another weapon. I just don't get it. It sure does require more skill, but some people does have that skill and thus they will pwn with it. If you have a lot skill with any other weapon, you don't stand a chance (except on close range in case with M79, Spas or DE, but they are way more rare than long distance).

IMO if ruger SHOULD be like better than the other weapons, it should be hard to use on completely different way. Just take a look at the barrett in 1.3.1, imo it was pretty hard to use (though you could actually master it, if you were good enough).

But the point is, it SHOULD NOT be like better than the other weapons. Why not just make it easier to use, and balance it to fit with other weapons?

[Chakra]

Its hard to balance something like this. Autos are kind of easy in comparison ... anyone can aim with them relatively well, you can balance the 'dps' (damage per second for non-nerds) almost precisely, whereas with semi-autos and one shot weapons its a story about learning curve and overall usefulness once you get 'good'.

Much like an m79 or barret, a ruger will - under most circumstances - beat an auto user 'if' he can get off two clean shots as fast as the fireinterval allows, though will most likely get injured in the process. If he doesn't, he's screwed. So we've got this whole balance thing going on here that relies more on the average user than the actual stats of the weapon ....which is where it gets confusing.

Probably why so many old school 'vets' turn to the likes of semi-autos, as it has that higher learning curve and is prone to more risk.

[mxyzptlk]

The ideal cycle is Autos < One hits < Semis < Autos.

Autos beat One-hits due to long reload and bink, One-hits beat semis because semis share some of their flaws and Require accuracy but don't kill in one hit, and semis beat autos because they deal a lot of damage in a single hit.

In experimentation, though, this doesn't always hold up. This is the IDEAL method though.
Instead of making weapons in a category similar to each other, though, you should make them all competent, but in their own ways. The spas-12 is more powerful than a ruger, but it requires you to be up close. The deagles are competent for short to medium distances, but the bullets spread over long gaps. The semis all do relatively the same, but they all have their own situations where they excel.

Instead of nerfing autos and oneshots in favor of semis, you should have taken a closer look at how they are used in combat. The aug is good for short-medium  range, and it has a decent rate of fire, but it takes a long time to kill. The AK is for medium to long distances, fires slowly, is fairly powerful, but it is only really useful in realistic. The Minimi is decent for all ranges, but it's rate of fire is slower than the other autos, and it's bullet is faster and more powerful. The MP5 has a short range, low speed, weak bullets, but a devastating rate of fire. The Minigun is supposed to be a short - medium distance support weapon with an insane rate of fire.

At least, those are how they are supposed to be.

Same thing with the one hits, the barrett was nerfed to prevent it from being a god-ownage weapon, but the nerfs went a little too far. Now, the barrett, although it is useful for people who practiced with it throughout, it is pretty much inaccessible to new players. The m79 wasn't nerfed enough. It does have a bink, but it is barely noticeable, and definately not enogh to keep it from being abused.

So, right now, here is how the weapons are "balanced": Skilled semis < Noob m79 < Skilled autos < Barretts < Noob autos

Notice that there is no cycle, skilled semis and noob m79s will almost always win a fight.



the above has been my interpretation of the balance situation.

[Shadow G-Unit]

Two words, it's fine.

[Clawbug]

Two words, it's fine.

Is it fine if we make every weapon to kill in 0.75 seconds?


When we compare weapons DPS, we need to take into account that if you want to kill with ruger in fast time, you need 100% accuracy. But, you can NOT get 100% accuracy with autos. So, both weapons with same DPS would mean that Ruger is overpowered, AGAIN even they have the same DPS. Ruger having around 85% smaller DPS than AUG would mean that GOOD aug user would win Rugerer in plain 1v1 situation.

This is why Ruger is good, the accuracy. If people were as accurate with other weapons aswell, ruger would be VERY much underpowered.

Also, as BrTarolg said, the first shot actually does not have fireinterval, so real DPS for ruger is 138,6, but e.g. for AUG it is 121,11. So, in 1v1 situation AUG has NO CHANCE to win ruger if ruger hits first two shots. Oh, only Mp5(From zero distance, all bullets hit), minigun(same as for Mp5), M79 and Barrett are weapon which would beat it really.

Is this the balance we have been dreaming of? I think no.

As Truup said, make it easier, less powerful, like other weapons. Or then make other weapons as powerful and harder.

Real DPS is the thing which matters.