Ask A Christian

[Chariot]

What are your feelings on "Christians" who feel it's their duty to harass people and tell them they are going straight to hell for living their life the way they choose? Like, the guys on TV who can supposedly save you by placing their hands on your head and other stuff? You know, turning God into a show?

[Coolio]

but do you want to live without any say in what you do or believe?

If I get eternal happiness then HELL YES!

Seriously i agree with him if God just showed himself then everyone would probably believe in Him and then i everyone would be Christian and no one would go to hell.

[Chariot]

What's the point of a bunch of mindless zombies all praising you doing exactly what you want? He wants us to worship him by choice.

[VijchtiDoodah]

Vijcht, explain further.

There isn't anything else to explain and my knowledge of other, more complete, religions is severely lacking (I know of them only through a few chance encounters with a philosopher and a few theologians).

One thing I can say is that you don't need an established religion to believe something.  For example, were I a religious person, I would be either a deist or a theist who believes in a god that interacts with the world only on a limited and discreet basis.  The basic structure of this belief is as follows: the world is a complex place whose best possible explanation for existence would consist of a god who, for whatever reason, decided to create it.  I see no irregular breaks in the established natural laws (miracles), so I conclude that god either doesn't interfere or only does so on such a limited basis that it is undetectable. 

I have been told by some people that this hypothetical god wants me to worship him or be tortured for eternity: but they have no proof beyond the claims of other people who also say the same thing.  Thus, the most likely explanation for their behavior is that they, like every culture with its unique religion, are unnecessarily attributing human traits to a creature who has exhibited none simply because they are either so arrogant as to believe that they are special and thus like gods (and, by extension, god must be like them), or because their elders sought a way to control the population through a book of morals and needed an ultimate human-like authority to ensure that the morals were obeyed, or for some other, perhaps altruistic, motive.

Thus, an utterly concrete belief system is a simple one of speculation: if there is a god, it is most likely as I described and least likely one, for instance, that is described in a book written and voted on by men with hundreds of inaccuracies and contradictions while slowly changing as it assimilates other conceptions of gods from dozens of other cultures.

[Demonic]

That's the trick of christianity. Christ. It's not only about accepting the fact that there is an infinite being out there who is responsible for your existance, and that you should praise and thank him for that: but you also have to believe and acknowledge that he loved humanity so much that he gave his very own son to die for our sins.

You may believe in God, and live a good life - if you do not accept Jesus Christ, your elevator is still going down, and not to Australia. But this is such a simple circumstance, most people just jump over it... and start blaming us christians for being ignorant and stuff. All is asked by God from the people is, that if they made the screw-ups, then they should hang on to the only string of hope for salvation, Jesus. Doesn't get any more simple than that, now does it?

[SirJamesaford]

Vijcht, explain further.

or because their elders sought a way to control the population through a book of morals and needed an ultimate human-like authority to ensure that the morals were obeyed, or for some other, perhaps altruistic, motive.

Ive been saying that for years...just in a dumber way lol

[VijchtiDoodah]

Doesn't get any more simple than that, now does it?

That's not even simple (which wasn't exactly my point, but it's close enough).  The beliefs I outlined above are ones of reason, logic, and probability; anyone anywhere can independently come to the same conclusion based on the information given.  Christianity, on the other hand, is a religion of faith over logic, tradition over reason, and improbability over probability -- it is a manufactured belief with very little basis in reality and cannot, under any independent circumstances, be duplicated.

The only proof of Christianity's truth -- the only evidence that exists to lend credence to its claims -- are oral tradition, a 2000 year old book with writers whose motives are unknown, a few shreds of circumstantial coincidence (the same kind that Nostradamus followers adhere to), and a little bit of true history thrown into the mix.  What you have is exactly the same concoction that, for some mysterious reason, you look at and deem unbelievable, superstitious, fictitious, and even idiotic every time you see it -- that is, as long as it isn't the same concoction that spawned the belief system you currently entertain.

There are only a handful of the thousands of available religions that aren't based on folklore.  Christianity is not one of them.

[Avarax]

but do you want to live without any say in what you do or believe?

If I get eternal happiness then HELL YES!

Seriously i agree with him if God just showed himself then everyone would probably believe in Him and then i everyone would be Christian and no one would go to hell.

If this happened, life on earth would be hell itself, because you'd have no other choice than always following "his" guidlines. If you can be by a 100% sure, that you go to hell when doing something terribly wrong - hell being defined as the ultimate agony, absolutly uncomparable to anything worldly - then you'd not be able anymore to do anything against god's will. Furthermore, there wouldn't be any true faith anymore. Faith would turn into knowledge. You would no longer be a true believer, you'd just carry out orders. What a world would this be, where everybody is acting obliging on pain of penalties, not because of true belief or actual morality?

[Will]

oh I think avarax explained this nicely. Couldn't get better than that IMO

[Mutzy]

First off - major respect for �  for creating this thread.

Doesn't get any more simple than that, now does it?

That's not even simple (which wasn't exactly my point, but it's close enough).  The beliefs I outlined above are ones of reason, logic, and probability; anyone anywhere can independently come to the same conclusion based on the information given.  Christianity, on the other hand, is a religion of faith over logic, tradition over reason, and improbability over probability -- it is a manufactured belief with very little basis in reality and cannot, under any independent circumstances, be duplicated.

The only proof of Christianity's truth -- the only evidence that exists to lend credence to its claims -- are oral tradition, a 2000 year old book with writers whose motives are unknown, a few shreds of circumstantial coincidence (the same kind that Nostradamus followers adhere to), and a little bit of true history thrown into the mix.  What you have is exactly the same concoction that, for some mysterious reason, you look at and deem unbelievable, superstitious, fictitious, and even idiotic every time you see it -- that is, as long as it isn't the same concoction that spawned the belief system you currently entertain.

There are only a handful of the thousands of available religions that aren't based on folklore.  Christianity is not one of them.

There are many kings and/or historical personalities that only have one document regarding them.  The bible is really made up of many books written by different people, all referring to this same god.  There are also other documents by historians in that time period that refer to Jesus Christ.

If you're really looking for answers, I suggest you look for "The Case For Christ" by a guy named Lee Strobel.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/strobel.html <-Look Here for more info.

Yes I do believe the Bible word for word.

But you don't believe that you must do everything the Bible tells you to do?

Stop trying to find godamn errors in the Bible and believe in something. I dare you to remain in denial of any god for the rest of your life.

(btw a good starting place is christianism)

Christianity, unfortunately, is not a good starting place due to the errors in the Bible.  Wouldn't you agree that believing in something requires absolute faith?  How, then, can you say you believe in Christianity when faced with errors in the Bible?

There are much more suitable religions and belief systems out there that actually make sense.  They're few and far between, but they're better than the current major religions.

He said christianism.
(From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianism )

Christianism involves acting in a Christian way but without believing in the religion of Christianity. This is a theory not a religion which involves simply being a kind and considerate person who has a conscience and a set of values over what is right or wrong. A person who lives by Christianism doesn't believe in heaven or hell and doesn't act in a Christian way for a reward in later life, they do it just to be a good person.

By extension, this theory also covers the behavior of people who are pious in their words while acting domineeringly in action. No objections to this extension are raised either by cross-cultural or historiographic analysis, since by and large people of other religions are on average no kinder, or any meaner, than the empirically observed behavior of Christian society.

He also said stop trying to find errors, because belief is what he's talking about.

We believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to take our place, as a sacrifice for our sins, allowing us to have a personal relationship with the Lord our savior, Jesus Christ. It is his constant work in our lives, and of those around us that constantly re-affirms this belief.  It is a choice that we have made. 

Whether or not you accept that, or not is up to you.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Doesn't get any more simple than that, now does it?

That's not even simple (which wasn't exactly my point, but it's close enough).  The beliefs I outlined above are ones of reason, logic, and probability; anyone anywhere can independently come to the same conclusion based on the information given.  Christianity, on the other hand, is a religion of faith over logic, tradition over reason, and improbability over probability -- it is a manufactured belief with very little basis in reality and cannot, under any independent circumstances, be duplicated.

The main problem with religious acceptance is that our society is very materialistic.  Unless something can be physically and scientifically proven, it is brushed off as illogical, unlikely, superstition, or even simply false.  ESP? Nah, it's all phony.  Aliens? Optical illusions.  Dragons? Quite clearly the result of imaginative minds across the world.  Silly Chinese, silly English, silly Native Americans (North and South).  Stop making carvings and paintings!  Don't you KNOW that dinosaurs are extinct?

And despite what you may believe, there is a lot of evidence that events in the Bible DID happen, even if you chose to doubt supernatural involvement.

Noah's Ark: http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm
Sodom and Gomorrah: http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm
Crossing the Red Sea: http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm
Mount Sinai: http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm
Ark of the Covenant: http://www.arkdiscovery.com/aoc-1.htm

Some of this may seem pretty far out (most notably the Ark of the Covenant one).  However, I believe that there is enough evidence that SOMETHING happened (such as Sodom and Gomorrah), something that can't be explained away by natural causes.

With study, the Bible is not just an illogical, improbable tradition.  Not only does it contain facts that were not "known" to man until recently (such as the earth being round), but it also contains prophecies that have been fulfilled, and that amount to more than random chance (someone else posted a list of these or a link to them earlier).

Is there a God?  You said that people made up God and gave him human qualities, so they can relate to him.  At first glance, sure, it seems strange that God, the omnipotent creator of the universe, is so humanlike.  But once you think about it, you realize, How else could you describe God?  We only understand what we've experienced.  If a person didn't have olfactory nerves, could you explain to him what a smell was like?  No.  Or, for a better analogy, how would you teach calculus to someone who had no comprehension of it?  Wouldn't you have to start what they understand, with addition and subtraction?

God is like that.  As humans, we have no concept and no basis for a supreme being.  However, by anthropomorphizing him, we can understand and begin to relate, instead of simply being told that "There's a God, and you'll never know anything about him."

Vijchti, you also say that you have no proof for God, other than that it seems that a universe must have a creator, and everyone else is saying that there's a God.  But, since you've never seen him or his works, you conclude that he's either dormant or non-existent.  In theory, it makes sense.

However, think about this.  Have you ever heard of the Mbuti?  Oh sure, you can READ about them in Wikipedia, or you can HEAR about them from other people, but have you ever seen them?  Have you ever been affected by any rituals they might perform?  No?  So it seems that the logical conclusion is that the don't exist.  They were simply the product of an overactive imagination. 

Maybe you heard that they were cannibals (this is added simply for the sake of the analogy).  If you tick them off, you'll die, but if you do what they ask, they'll let you live.  There are two conclusions you can draw from this:
1.  How stupid do you think I am?  Cannibals? Obscure tribes in the Congo, like us in many ways, but a bit more involved in mysticism?  Yeah right.
2.  Hmm...that's interesting.  Maybe I should try to learn more about the Mbuti, so that I don't wind up dead.

That analogy may have gotten away from me, but my point remains.  You can treat Christianity as some far out, made up story that will never affect you, or you can treat it as a concept that probably has a very real basis, and try to learn about it to avoid the negative outcomes that some believe may happen.

"But Gamer!" you say.  "Your analogy is flawed.  The Bible is simply a collaboration of people writing their interpretation of events! It can't be trusted! Wikipedia, on the other hand...well...hmm.  Ok, scratch that.  But I can do some research and prove that the Mbuti exist! You can't do the same with God!"

False.  The research you do may solidify YOUR faith in this tribe, but it all boils down to taking someone else's word for it.  The only way to truly prove that the Mbuti exist is to visit them.  But face it, the chances of meeting them is so slim, you're likely to believe the majority opinion about them.  And let's say you have found the Mbuti, and now you're a believer.  If I don't think they exist, is there anyway you can prove it to me short of having me visit and interact with them?  Likewise, if someone chooses to not believe in God, there is no way to PROVE that he exists, unless that person has a supernatural experience.

However, in my opinion, there is sufficient documentation and sufficient proof that God exists, even if I've never actually SEEN him.

[Maryleaf]

Everyone Gods name from every religion is just a different name for the same God.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Everyone Gods name from every religion is just a different name for the same God.

At the simplest interpretation, yes.  Allah, for example, is basically the same thing as God.  However, in cases like that, the religions don't differ because of who they worship; they differ because of the history of the religion, the key figures, the tasks you need to do, and the afterlife.  That's why there's much religious conflict in the world.

[Graham]

What are your feelings on "Christians" who feel it's their duty to harass people and tell them they are going straight to hell for living their life the way they choose? Like, the guys on TV who can supposedly save you by placing their hands on your head and other stuff? You know, turning God into a show?

Their heart in in the right place... but their head is miles away... And those guys on tv can't save anyone.

Vij, sounds like you have given this some thought, also sounds like you are just looking for a single bit of proof. I can't give you proof, proof in this sort of matter is very personal, I can tell you stories of what happened to me. However thats just it, it happened to me and no one else will fully grasp the meaning of the story. God isn't some far off being that helps one or two people out and demand those few people convert everyone with a handful of stories. The Bible says God once walked in the garden with Adam and Eve, if he walked with humans before then its obvious he would want to do it again, but for now he just gets as close as he can. Anyway back on topic, I don't know what kind of proof you would need, so like I said before I can't give it to you. However if you do go looking for it and you find it, I promise you you will know on the spot you have found something concrete to you.

[LtKillroy]

Major reasons I believe in Christianity:
1. If humans are the highest beings, were all screwed.
2. I have read many books on many religions, Christanity makes a lot of sense.
3. Grew up Christian, know a lot about it, have never found a real loophole.
4. Everything the Bible says about humans and their nature I have found to be true.
5. Christianity isn't for not going to Hell, it's for going to heaven.
6. People like Mark were actually historians, and his other works were true, why not the gospel.
7. The Bible has a feel to it that no other book does.
8. The are been many archealogical finds validating many religious figures. (Pantus Pilot or w/e Solomon, ect.
9. People without religion generally grow up to be unhappy, always wanting more.

[Smegma]

9. People without religion generally grow up to be unhappy, always wanting more.

And generally, people with religion grow up to be unhappy. Fuck, most of the world is unhappy.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Oh wow, I just realized my response to Vijchti has almost 850 words.  That's just sick.

[Mangled*]

Here's one hell of a question for you!    (note the irony)

If "God created man in his image"* then why are there disabled people, terminally ill people, mentally ill people, miscarriages, stillborns, siamese twins, obese people, anorexic people, ugly people, drug addicts, murderers, child molesters, rapists, perverts, pedophiles and a**holes?

*exactly like the New Testament states.

[Graham]

Again that goes back to Adam and Eve. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit sickness and whatnot was allowed into the world.

[Mangled*]

Where was the garden of eden located?

How did God make eve from Adams rib when science suggests that males evolved from mutating from females?