Abortion

[LtKillroy]

But it is still human, and all humans have a survival instinct, and all humans deserve to live and have a chance at life.

[Dascoo]

A fetus is essentially a parasite. It requires its host's body to survive. Forcing a woman to continue to be pregnant, allowing the fetus to use her body against her will, is in violation of her right to bodily autonomy.

So lem'me get this straight.

Even if you're talking about a wrongly conceived child through rape, you're deciding to kill what could have been a perfectly normal person who could contribute to society very well, and who very improbably although not impossibly could have been a genius who could forward advances in mankind technologically or otherwise over a woman's feelings?

Even if the baby has been scanned to have a disorder, or will be born crippled, there have STILL been influential persons in history with said physical setbacks. If there is reasonable suspicion that a natural birthing may cause the mother to die, then a caesarean section can be performed. There's no excuse; the woman's just being totally selfish then to kill it off. I'm not even going into religious arguments!

You know, you've made me change my mind. I didn't really support abortion anyways, except for when the women is raped...but that's potentially destroying someone who could grow up and save the world

[a-4-year-old]

By that logic, we shouldn't treat people who contract sexually transmitted diseases unless they were raped.

Exactly, its your fault you got an STD from someone.

1. Most fat people are not fat by choice. To imply that they are is the basis of fat hatred in this society.
2. Consent to sex != consent to pregnancy. I guess you only hate women who have sex for pleasure.

I laughed, really really hard, at both.
#1 is just wrong, most people are fat because they are lazy, even people with diseases like diabetes can lose weight.
#2 yeah it does mean exactly that.

Already born babies are no longer parasites and no longer require the use of a uterus to survive. The woman can choose to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.

by your logic babies are still parasites because women have to stay home and take care of them and god forbid a woman has to take care of a child.

What gives you the right to make this decision? How do you make this calculation?

A kidney is a small price to pay to allow someone live the rest of their life. Should we force people to donate their kidneys to people who will die if they don't get a kidney transplant?

edit: Also, most abortions occur in the first trimester. The death of a small clump of cells is a small price to pay compared to the risks and costs of pregnancy, birth, and childcare.

an abortion is entirely different then a kidney transplant.

You can stop pretending that you care about the fetus, it's clear that all you're concerned with is controlling women's sexuality.

what?

[MegamanX]

But it is still human, and all humans have a survival instinct, and all humans deserve to live and have a chance at life.

It doesn't matter if the fetus has a chance at life or not because it lacks any kind of consciousness. No, it doesn't have survival instinct of any kind. It doesn't matter if the fetus MIGHT grow up to be some important person. It might also grow up to become a serial killer. The chances of the latter happening are also much higher.

You are just being pretentious and "good" because in the end you won't really give a shit if a fetus is killed or not. You are just going to keep on living your life like always and then you die.

MORALITY IS A FIGMENT OF YOUR IMAGINATION.

[LtKillroy]

That is a sad world you come from Megaman. It doesn't have a consciousness yet, but you didn't either when you were a fetus. Just because I have values and want others to have a good life to doesn't mean you have to go around saying morality is imagined. Once again, all humans deserve a chance.

[MegamanX]

I wouldn't have cared if I had died when I was a fetus either. The fetus doesn't know what a good life is and if it dies before knowing that (which is the case in abortion), it is never going to know it and then it just dies away and everything is like before with one baby less in this overpopulated planet. Nobody gets hurt.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

It doesn't matter if the fetus has a chance at life or not because it lacks any kind of consciousness.

So it's perfectly acceptable to euthanize brain-dead people, or people in comas?

Also, a-4-year-old answered Anna for me.  But, just the same, let me tack on a little something to the last part.

You can stop pretending that you care about the fetus, it's clear that all you're concerned with is controlling women's sexuality.

what?

No, I think women should control their own sexuality.  Men too.  Men are just as much to blame for unwanted pregnancies as women are, and an abortion is just an easy way out for men as well.  "What? I'm going to be a father? Nah, I'm not ready for that kind of responsibility.  Yes, honey, get that abortion.  I still love you." <- People like that are wastes of good oxygen.

Oh yeah, one more thing.

I am pro-choice... Let women do what they want to their body.

I'm all for that too.  But most women refuse to abort their own bodies.  They'd prefer to abort someone else's.

A woman doesn't require the use of another body's resources to survive, so I don't see how she could "abort her own body." Abortion simply removes a fetus from a woman's body. Maybe someday it will be possible to remove a fetus from a uterus without killing it, but that is another issue.

Then they should call it an extraction.  Abortion means an ending or a termination, and that's what's happening here.

[MegamanX]

It doesn't matter if the fetus has a chance at life or not because it lacks any kind of consciousness.

So it's perfectly acceptable to euthanize brain-dead people, or people in comas?

I am guessing you are one of those people who want to keep their vegetable relatives around just because they might one day wake up? Yeah, I think it's perfectly fine to kill them after all brain activity is gone and they've been in coma for longer than a three days.

[LtKillroy]

Dude, I don't care if the fetus cares at the time, I do care if it would have. Everyone deserves a chance. The fetus is still human, you can't deny that, no matter what it looks like or currently feels, it is human. All humans deserve a chance at life, I can't say that enough. Humans should never be killed for any reason, that is just sick and immoral.

[Anna]

You're missing the point.
Imagine a married couple. They have unprotected sex, but both know that the woman is in her infertile (correct word? as in not fertile) cycle. After some time they find out the woman is pregnant. The woman doesn't really want the child whereas the man really wants to have his kid. They divorce and go to court.
What would your decision and arguments be during the trial?

I find that a very difficult question and I wouldn't be able to answer it until I get an idea of how badly the man wants to keep the child and how badly the woman wants to get an abortion.

Control over one's body is a basic human right. Having kids is not.

A fetus is essentially a parasite. It requires its host's body to survive. Forcing a woman to continue to be pregnant, allowing the fetus to use her body against her will, is in violation of her right to bodily autonomy.

So lem'me get this straight.

Even if you're talking about a wrongly conceived child through rape, you're deciding to kill what could have been a perfectly normal person who could contribute to society very well, and who very improbably although not impossibly could have been a genius who could forward advances in mankind technologically or otherwise over a woman's feelings?

What about the woman's contributions to society? What if she could have been a genius who could forward advances in mankind technologically or otherwise, but instead is stuck with raising a kid?

Even if the baby has been scanned to have a disorder, or will be born crippled, there have STILL been influential persons in history with said physical setbacks. If there is reasonable suspicion that a natural birthing may cause the mother to die, then a caesarean section can be performed. There's no excuse; the woman's just being totally selfish then to kill it off. I'm not even going into religious arguments!

The fetus is the selfish one. It implants itself into the wall of the uterus and starts growing using resources from the woman's body, all without the woman's permission!

[MegamanX]

LtKillroy, if that is the case then you are not being logical. You probably think that god exists too?

[a-4-year-old]

Control over one's body is a basic human right.

haha irony.

[LtKillroy]

Wow... Without the womens permission?  If you have sex, you must want a kid, becuase that's how you get one, and the only way to get one. You forget foster care. If you don't want the kid, give it away, don't kill it just because you can.

[MegamanX]

Control over one's body is a basic human right.

haha irony.

The fetus has control over it's body. It just doesn't use it because it doesn't care. It's a miserable little pile of cells.

[LtKillroy]

LtKillroy, if that is the case then you are not being logical. You probably think that god exists too?

So what, your a Nazi, killing everyone who is useless? It is just sick to kill anyone. I consider abortion murder, what do you consider it? Getting rid of useless cells? Clipping your toenails is getiig rid if useless cells, destroying a fetus is taking a life that is just not smart yet.

[Graham]

I don't support it, unless it was caused by rape(mainly because thats a big mental issue), even then I would be heartbroken for the girl. I do say that if you don't want a baby don't go sleeping around. Even when using a condom sleeping around and getting pissy when you get pregnant is like getting pissed you got shot int he leg when you ran into the middle of a gunfight with a bulletproof vest on.

Anyway, Anna you can call babies parasites or try to support your own logic however you want. When the tire hits the road your mind can change, I saw it happen before, for good and for bad.

Edit: Not saying I would encourage a rape victim to get an abortion. I really don't know what I would do in that situation.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Control over one's body is a basic human right.

haha irony.

ZING!

Having kids is not [a basic human right].

I see.  So who gives you permission then?

What about the woman's contributions to society? What if she could have been a genius who could forward advances in mankind technologically or otherwise, but instead is stuck with raising a kid?

Take this how you want, but I get the feeling that a genius would think about the consequences of their actions before they perform those actions.

The fetus is the selfish one. It implants itself into the wall of the uterus and starts growing using resources from the woman's body, all without the woman's permission!

Yes, the egg and the sperm are conspirators! Conspirators, I say!

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 02:09:20 PM

Edit: Not saying I would encourage a rape victim to get an abortion. I really don't know what I would do in that situation.

Well, at the risk of sounding insensitive, **** happens.  Not everything in life can be bunnies and rainbows.  You lose 9 months of your life, but after that, you can put it up for adoption and actually give the kid a chance.  If someone has to die as a result of rape, it should be the rapist, not the baby.

[MegamanX]

LtKillroy, if that is the case then you are not being logical. You probably think that god exists too?

So what, your a Nazi, killing everyone who is useless? It is just sick to kill anyone. I consider abortion murder, what do you consider it? Getting rid of useless cells? Clipping your toenails is getiig rid if useless cells, destroying a fetus is taking a life that is just not smart yet.

That's right, it isn't smart and aware of itself so it doesn't matter if it dies away. It doesn't matter to the fetus, it doesn't matter to anyone else. Unless the mother actually wants to have a child but then she wouldn't be doing abortion in the first place. Stop acting like you care because you really do not. You just try to be a better human being but you aren't really doing anything. If anyone, you are a waste of oxygen.

Gamer_2k4: I'd say you are the one promoting the "bunnies and rainbows" lifestyle with your anti-abortion attitude. "Don't kill the babies... Plz plz don't kill the babies... ;_;"

[Twistkill]

Kinda late now, but...

Adoption is a simpler and much more humane alternative to abortion: All the woman is required to do is to say that she does not want ownership of the baby and therefore wants it to be an adoptee. For one, this already gives the baby another chance to exist as a human in this world rather than to be mutilated mercilessly, and this still offers the same outcome as aborting does.

And, while I'm at it, adoption shouldn't even come up as an issue either. When a woman gets pregnant, she is taking responsibility for that baby's life, and she must not go through anything to get rid of it - she chose to have sex, and she chose to accept whatever consequences arise during and after the intercourse. The exception to this is if the woman is, very unfortunately, raped.

The thing is, childbirth is one of the most painful things women go through, which is fact, and I therefore cannot rebuke that point. However, there are more cons to abortion then there are pros.

Hell, I was almost aborted. My biological mom was an alcoholic drug addict. She was considering aborting me until my "other" parents came along and adopted me. None of you would even be talking to me, a fully-fledged human being, who also almost came out with ADD, had it not been for adoption.

Now, I'm pro-life, obviously, but I do believe that aborted fetuses can be used to benefit research. This, however, does not give an excuse for a woman to have an abortion. If she still chooses to go through with one, then I guess that's her decision, because I cannot change anyone's mind, but I hope that she does not make that choice in the first place.

[LtKillroy]

No, I do care, that's where you and me differ. I care about others than myself, you obviosly don't. It may not matter now, but it will later, so it deserves a chance. I believe they have certain unalienable rights of rights, liberty, and the persuit of happiness that should never be denied.