Abortion

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Although abstinence is the best choice for avoiding pregnancy, you must realize that sexual urges are natural; especially so in a growing teen, male or female. It's perfectly normal for somebody to have sex before they decide they want a child.

Sure, sexual urges are natural, but so are many other urges.  If people did whatever was natural, social situations would be awkward, to say the least.  Very little would get accomplished.  That's why there's a nifty little thing called self-control.

You're also not taking into account the fact that childbirth is one of the most painful things a woman can go through.

But abortion is probably one of the most painful things a fetus can go through.

[DePhille]

Although abstinence is the best choice for avoiding pregnancy, you must realize that sexual urges are natural; especially so in a growing teen, male or female. It's perfectly normal for somebody to have sex before they decide they want a child.

You're also not taking into account the fact that childbirth is one of the most painful things a woman can go through. Abortion, or the immense pain of childbirth and several thousand dollars a year plus twice as many sleepless nights to raise a baby?

You can still decide to take the pill or use a condom. There's also masturbation as a way of dealing with sexual urges, which doesn't take it away completely but definitely helps to control it.

I agree with the second paragraph, but that's something everyone knows before they have sex, so they need to take that into account. I'm a big fan of abortion motivated by common sense, but it should be the voice of both the man and the woman (if they live togheter/are mairried/... ofcourse) here before any decision is taken, you don't get babies all alone.

Grtz, DePhille

[SadistAtHeart]

But abortion is probably one of the most painful things a fetus can go through.

Touché, I've no comeback for that

[Anna]

Against her will?  The ONLY situation where having a baby is completely against a woman's will is in the case of rape.  Aside from that, if you're going to have sex (the evolutionary goal of which is to produce offspring), you'd better be prepared for the consequences.

By that logic, we shouldn't treat people who contract sexually transmitted diseases unless they were raped.

Ok.

At least you're consistent here.

[bias warning] I've never heard anyone justify murder because they were fat.  Pregnancy is essentially the same thing.  You alter your body because of a choice that you made.  The only one responsible for it is you.

Wow, fat hate and woman hate together in the same paragraph! Getting an abortion is taking responsibility.

Oh yeah, I clearly HATE both fat people and women. >_>

1. Most fat people are not fat by choice. To imply that they are is the basis of fat hatred in this society.
2. Consent to sex != consent to pregnancy. I guess you only hate women who have sex for pleasure.

And getting an abortion isn't taking responsibility.  Getting an abortion is an easy way out from the responsibility you should have had.  Let's say you spilled something on a white wall.  You have two options:
1. Take responsibility and clean up the spill
2. Say "Screw this" and paint over it

Abortion is like the second option.  It's a quick fix because you don't want to the obligations associated with raising a child.  That's not responsibility.

Both are valid choices.

Already born babies are no longer parasites and no longer require the use of a uterus to survive. The woman can choose to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.

And she should do that in the case of any unwanted pregnancy.  Nine months is a small price to pay to give someone else 70 years of life.

What gives you the right to make this decision? How do you make this calculation?

A kidney is a small price to pay to allow someone live the rest of their life. Should we force people to donate their kidneys to people who will die if they don't get a kidney transplant?

edit: Also, most abortions occur in the first trimester. The death of a small clump of cells is a small price to pay compared to the risks and costs of pregnancy, birth, and childcare.

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 11:38:20 AM

I am pro-choice... Let women do what they want to their body.

I'm all for that too.  But most women refuse to abort their own bodies.  They'd prefer to abort someone else's.

A woman doesn't require the use of another body's resources to survive, so I don't see how she could "abort her own body." Abortion simply removes a fetus from a woman's body. Maybe someday it will be possible to remove a fetus from a uterus without killing it, but that is another issue.

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 11:39:04 AM

Maybe she should wait until then to have sex.  Like I said, actions have consequences.  You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later.  If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.  Otherwise you're just irresponsible.

Yeah, punish those sluts!!

Ok.

You can stop pretending that you care about the fetus, it's clear that all you're concerned with is controlling women's sexuality.

[Dascoo]

Abortion seems unnecessary to me. Unless you've been impregnated through rape, and don't want to have the rapists baby then I have no objections. But if you're some teenager who decided to get fucked up by your boyfriend, and don't want the baby....give it up for adoption!

Also for those whose birth control methods have failed aswell, you still got fucked, and there was still a chance of you getting pregnant anyways, and shit happens! Give it up for adoption!

Abortion should only be an option for some situations.....

[LtKillroy]

You, my friend, don't understand that I don't care about the fetus, but the life it carries. All humans should have an equal chance at life, and abortion snuffs out that chance before they are even born. That is why I'm against it.

[Xxypher]

>.>
<.<
A woman's body is her own damn responsibility, leave her to her choices and get out of her face with those picket signs and protesting.

[LtKillroy]

But it's not here choice, that's what I'm saying. The baby has no choice. It is not the womans responsibility alone, she has to step up to the plate and realize she is no longer just in charge of her own body, but someone else's as well.

[Xxypher]

But it's not here choice, that's what I'm saying. The baby has no choice. It is not the womans responsibility alone, she has to step up to the plate and realize she is no longer just in charge of her own body, but someone else's as well.

During the abortion stages, its nothing but a mindless heap of cells "Sorry to say".
It is HER choice because its her body.

[LtKillroy]

So what your saying is a tree isn't a tree until it has sprouted out of the ground? I'm pretty sure it is a tree when it has roots, you don't have to see it to make it a tree.

[Xxypher]

So what your saying is a tree isn't a tree until it has sprouted out of the ground? I'm pretty sure it is a tree when it has roots, you don't have to see it to make it a tree.

Pretty much its still a seed then.

[DePhille]

What if the man doesn't agree on the abortion then?
I'm trying to show here that nor man nor women have the upper hand in this, and try to take away all woman- and man-hate.

Grtz, DePhille

[Anna]

What if the man doesn't agree on the abortion then?
I'm trying to show here that nor man nor women have the upper hand in this, and try to take away all woman- and man-hate.

Grtz, DePhille

I can't wait until the day that dudes can get pregnant.

[LtKillroy]

What if the man doesn't agree on the abortion then?
I'm trying to show here that nor man nor women have the upper hand in this, and try to take away all woman- and man-hate.

Grtz, DePhille

So what if the baby doesn't agree with abortion. I'm trying to show here there is a third party ivolved here, one with no say but I'm sure wants to live.

[DePhille]

You're missing the point.
Imagine a married couple. They have unprotected sex, but both know that the woman is in her infertile (correct word? as in not fertile) cycle. After some time they find out the woman is pregnant. The woman doesn't really want the child whereas the man really wants to have his kid. They divorce and go to court.
What would your decision and arguments be during the trial?

I find that a very difficult question and I wouldn't be able to answer it until I get an idea of how badly the man wants to keep the child and how badly the woman wants to get an abortion.

LtKillroy: Yeah, I get that, but since it has no voice, it is unable to share it's opinion. That's why I'm presuming that if it had a voice, chances are extremely big that it would like to stay alive as much as anything else. And if both parents agree on an abortion, there's also a big chance that the baby will have a very hard life, so the goal is to get inside it's mind and form our own opinion: An extremely bad life or no life at all?

Grtz, DePhille

[Keron Cyst]

A fetus is essentially a parasite. It requires its host's body to survive. Forcing a woman to continue to be pregnant, allowing the fetus to use her body against her will, is in violation of her right to bodily autonomy.

So lem'me get this straight.

Even if you're talking about a wrongly conceived child through rape, you're deciding to kill what could have been a perfectly normal person who could contribute to society very well, and who very improbably although not impossibly could have been a genius who could forward advances in mankind technologically or otherwise over a woman's feelings?

Even if the baby has been scanned to have a disorder, or will be born crippled, there have STILL been influential persons in history with said physical setbacks. If there is reasonable suspicion that a natural birthing may cause the mother to die, then a caesarean section can be performed. There's no excuse; the woman's just being totally selfish then to kill it off. I'm not even going into religious arguments!

I can't wait until the day that dudes can get pregnant.

A'ight, let's do it!

... oO'

EDIT

... An extremely bad life or no life at all?

If you're trying to argue for 'no life' here, you'd be surprised how incredibly resilient humans can be

[LtKillroy]

Yes, that is the heart of why I am against it. The fetus has no voice, but it doesn't want to die. Others want it to die, and it is destroyed becuase of the mere fact it can't defend itself. Poeple are against the death sentence for people that are serial killers (I am against capital btw) but they think abortion is fine. That is wrong.

[DePhille]

Even if the odds are 90% for those who want to live a bad life and 10% who want to die instead, it is such an important matter that it is definitely worth having a large discussion about it, that was what I was trying to say.

My opinion on this is very simple, you can't decide unless you know exactly what all the opinions and motivations are. Abortion should be legal, but strict and evaluated with utmost care.

Grtz, DePhille

[Mangled*]

Abortion is okay so long as the fetus is not extensively developed enough.

But if you've left it too long and haven't made up your own mind then you have no right to kill the fetus.

[MegamanX]

Yes, that is the heart of why I am against it. The fetus has no voice, but it doesn't want to die. Others want it to die, and it is destroyed becuase of the mere fact it can't defend itself. Poeple are against the death sentence for people that are serial killers (I am against capital btw) but they think abortion is fine. That is wrong.

The fetus can't think. It doesn't want anything. It doesn't care if it lives or dies. It doesn't even understand the concept of living and dying.