Abortion

[MegamanX]

Adoption simpler than abortion? You got to be kidding. In abortion all you need to do is stick pliers up the uterus and take the baby out, piece by piece. In adoption the baby needs to be given birth first and then you need to go through all kinds of legal matters. Which one is simpler now?

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 03:20:05 PM

No, I do care, that's where you and me differ. I care about others than myself, you obviosly don't. It may not matter now, but it will later, so it deserves a chance. I believe they have certain unalienable rights of rights, liberty, and the persuit of happiness that should never be denied.

Fetus doesn't care about pursuit for happiness. Fetus doesn't care if the right for pursuit of happiness is taken away. Fetus doesn't know what pursuit for happiness is . Fetus doesn't know what happiness is. Fetus doesn't know that it exists. Fetus isn't really even human yet.

[Xxypher]

A fetus is essentially a parasite. It requires its host's body to survive. Forcing a woman to continue to be pregnant, allowing the fetus to use her body against her will, is in violation of her right to bodily autonomy.

So lem'me get this straight.

Even if you're talking about a wrongly conceived child through rape, you're deciding to kill what could have been a perfectly normal person who could contribute to society very well, and who very improbably although not impossibly could have been a genius who could forward advances in mankind technologically or otherwise over a woman's feelings?

Even if the baby has been scanned to have a disorder, or will be born crippled, there have STILL been influential persons in history with said physical setbacks. If there is reasonable suspicion that a natural birthing may cause the mother to die, then a caesarean section can be performed. There's no excuse; the woman's just being totally selfish then to kill it off. I'm not even going into religious arguments!

I can't wait until the day that dudes can get pregnant.

A'ight, let's do it!

... oO'

EDIT

... An extremely bad life or no life at all?

If you're trying to argue for 'no life' here, you'd be surprised how incredibly resilient humans can be

There is a disease that makes the fetus into a parasite, but it normally isn't parasitic.

[Twistkill]

Fetus doesn't care about pursuit for happiness. Fetus doesn't care if the right for pursuit of happiness is taken away. Fetus doesn't know what pursuit for happiness is . Fetus doesn't know what happiness is. Fetus doesn't know that it exists. Fetus isn't really even human yet.

You, sir, are ignorant.

A fetus acknowledges pain before it is even born. It is fully aware of when it is getting aborted, therefore it has feelings. Yes, maybe it doesn't have much in the way of thought or happiness, but instead of giving it the chance of developing, you'd rather slaughter it before it even has a chance to live?

Good job on promoting murder. Because that's what abortion is.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Fetus doesn't care about pursuit for happiness. Fetus doesn't care if the right for pursuit of happiness is taken away. Fetus doesn't know what pursuit for happiness is . Fetus doesn't know what happiness is. Fetus doesn't know that it exists.

Neither do 6 month old babies.  Is it alright to kill them as well?

[Xxypher]

Fetus doesn't care about pursuit for happiness. Fetus doesn't care if the right for pursuit of happiness is taken away. Fetus doesn't know what pursuit for happiness is . Fetus doesn't know what happiness is. Fetus doesn't know that it exists.

Neither do 6 month old babies.  Is it alright to kill them as well?

Thats when it is mainly fully developed, and is gaining a mind. Thus it is true life and would be considered MURDER, but when its still in it's little 100-1000 cell stage/parasitic stage, it isn't considered murder, it may be unfair and mean, but not murder.

Its like this, you go back in time, and stop a mother from having sex that makes someone that kills you in the future, it isn't murder because he was never there now.

[Anna]

By that logic, we shouldn't treat people who contract sexually transmitted diseases unless they were raped.

Exactly, its your fault you got an STD from someone.

So if you get hit by a car, we should leave you by the side of the road to die. It's your fault for crossing the street, after all.

1. Most fat people are not fat by choice. To imply that they are is the basis of fat hatred in this society.
2. Consent to sex != consent to pregnancy. I guess you only hate women who have sex for pleasure.

I laughed, really really hard, at both.
#1 is just wrong, most people are fat because they are lazy, even people with diseases like diabetes can lose weight.

I'm pretty lazy and I have a sedentary lifestyle. I must be pretty fat then, right? I know that most people are able to lose weight. I could lose weight too, but then I would be anorexic. It's better to educate yourself before forming opinions.

#2 yeah it does mean exactly that.

If a couple uses birth control and it fails, and the woman becomes pregnant, was there consent there? Clearly the couple is trying to avoid pregnancy. You can't consent to something while trying simultaneously to avoid it.

Already born babies are no longer parasites and no longer require the use of a uterus to survive. The woman can choose to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.

by your logic babies are still parasites because women have to stay home and take care of them and god forbid a woman has to take care of a child.

What gives you the right to make this decision? How do you make this calculation?

A kidney is a small price to pay to allow someone live the rest of their life. Should we force people to donate their kidneys to people who will die if they don't get a kidney transplant?

edit: Also, most abortions occur in the first trimester. The death of a small clump of cells is a small price to pay compared to the risks and costs of pregnancy, birth, and childcare.

an abortion is entirely different then a kidney transplant.

I'm not comparing abortion to a kidney transplant. I'm comparing the donation of a kidney to the donation of a uterus.

[Xxypher]

By that logic, we shouldn't treat people who contract sexually transmitted diseases unless they were raped.

Exactly, its your fault you got an STD from someone.

So if you get hit by a car, we should leave you by the side of the road to die. It's your fault for crossing the street, after all.

1. Most fat people are not fat by choice. To imply that they are is the basis of fat hatred in this society.
2. Consent to sex != consent to pregnancy. I guess you only hate women who have sex for pleasure.

I laughed, really really hard, at both.
#1 is just wrong, most people are fat because they are lazy, even people with diseases like diabetes can lose weight.

I'm pretty lazy and I have a sedentary lifestyle. I must be pretty fat then, right? I know that most people are able to lose weight. I could lose weight too, but then I would be anorexic. It's better to educate yourself before forming opinions.

#2 yeah it does mean exactly that.

If a couple uses birth control and it fails, and the woman becomes pregnant, was there consent there? Clearly the couple is trying to avoid pregnancy. You can't consent to something while trying simultaneously to avoid it.

Already born babies are no longer parasites and no longer require the use of a uterus to survive. The woman can choose to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.

by your logic babies are still parasites because women have to stay home and take care of them and god forbid a woman has to take care of a child.

What gives you the right to make this decision? How do you make this calculation?

A kidney is a small price to pay to allow someone live the rest of their life. Should we force people to donate their kidneys to people who will die if they don't get a kidney transplant?

edit: Also, most abortions occur in the first trimester. The death of a small clump of cells is a small price to pay compared to the risks and costs of pregnancy, birth, and childcare.

an abortion is entirely different then a kidney transplant.

I'm not comparing abortion to a kidney transplant. I'm comparing the donation of a kidney to the donation of a uterus.

The way you put that first one, those are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
If a baby is born from a mother with an STD, this baby will die soon, will live in pain, and sometimes be disfigured, I would rather abort it than have it be in pain.

[Anna]

It doesn't matter if the fetus has a chance at life or not because it lacks any kind of consciousness.

So it's perfectly acceptable to euthanize brain-dead people, or people in comas?

Brain-dead and comatose people do not require the use of a woman's body to live.

Oh yeah, one more thing.

I am pro-choice... Let women do what they want to their body.

I'm all for that too.  But most women refuse to abort their own bodies.  They'd prefer to abort someone else's.

A woman doesn't require the use of another body's resources to survive, so I don't see how she could "abort her own body." Abortion simply removes a fetus from a woman's body. Maybe someday it will be possible to remove a fetus from a uterus without killing it, but that is another issue.

Then they should call it an extraction.  Abortion means an ending or a termination, and that's what's happening here.

Exactly: termination of a pregnancy.

[LtKillroy]

The way you put that first one, those are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
If a baby is born from a mother with an STD, this baby will die soon, will live in pain, and sometimes be disfigured, I would rather abort it than have it be in pain.

Don't get an STD, don't have this problem. Don't have sex if you don't want a kid, don't need abortion. Learn some self control, don't have to get sex all the time. Pretty simple, abortion is just the easy way out of a problem you got yourself into. If you get raped, just give the baby up. There are ways to help children with disabilities before and after they are born. In conclusion, no sex no kids, control yourself and take responsibilities for your own actions for once.

[a-4-year-old]

By that logic, we shouldn't treat people who contract sexually transmitted diseases unless they were raped.

Exactly, its your fault you got an STD from someone.

So if you get hit by a car, we should leave you by the side of the road to die. It's your fault for crossing the street, after all.

1. Most fat people are not fat by choice. To imply that they are is the basis of fat hatred in this society.
2. Consent to sex != consent to pregnancy. I guess you only hate women who have sex for pleasure.

I laughed, really really hard, at both.
#1 is just wrong, most people are fat because they are lazy, even people with diseases like diabetes can lose weight.

I'm pretty lazy and I have a sedentary lifestyle. I must be pretty fat then, right? I know that most people are able to lose weight. I could lose weight too, but then I would be anorexic. It's better to educate yourself before forming opinions.

#2 yeah it does mean exactly that.

If a couple uses birth control and it fails, and the woman becomes pregnant, was there consent there? Clearly the couple is trying to avoid pregnancy. You can't consent to something while trying simultaneously to avoid it.

Already born babies are no longer parasites and no longer require the use of a uterus to survive. The woman can choose to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.

by your logic babies are still parasites because women have to stay home and take care of them and god forbid a woman has to take care of a child.

What gives you the right to make this decision? How do you make this calculation?

A kidney is a small price to pay to allow someone live the rest of their life. Should we force people to donate their kidneys to people who will die if they don't get a kidney transplant?

edit: Also, most abortions occur in the first trimester. The death of a small clump of cells is a small price to pay compared to the risks and costs of pregnancy, birth, and childcare.

an abortion is entirely different then a kidney transplant.

I'm not comparing abortion to a kidney transplant. I'm comparing the donation of a kidney to the donation of a uterus.

1. nope but if i walk by train tracks as a train rolls by it sure is my fault i got killed for being a dumbass.

whats next? birth control? you consent as much as a gambler consents to having his money taken away you took the risk and you lost, boo hoo.

[Twistkill]

Don't get an STD, don't have this problem. Don't have sex if you don't want a kid, don't need abortion. Learn some self control, don't have to get sex all the time. Pretty simple, abortion is just the easy way out of a problem you got yourself into. If you get raped, just give the baby up. There are ways to help children with disabilities before and after they are born. In conclusion, no sex no kids, control yourself and take responsibilities for your own actions for once.

Having the desire for sex or even intimacy is a completely naturally occurring process, however. Sometimes not everyone can control it. It can be restrained, but not all of the time, and birth control isn't a 100% guarantee, either.

Still, abortion should not be the way to go, regardless of whether or not you were responsible for the pregnancy. Even if the baby is going to be born mentally challenged, or have a serious complication, then there's a slim chance I could see it as acceptable, but otherwise, do not go through with legalized murder.

[LtKillroy]

Anger is also a naturally accuring proccess, and some can't control it, so should we let murders walk? If you can't control it, get help. If you can't get help, try and stay away from places that you are more likely to meet someone who wants sex, or just get more self control becuase "not controlling myself" has never been a good excuse.

[Anna]

Control over one's body is a basic human right.

haha irony.

ZING!

Even if you extend this right to a fetus, then what gives the fetus the right to violate the woman's rights? Whose rights are more important, a clump of cells or a thinking, self-aware person? If the fetus wants bodily autonomy, it should stop leeching off its host's body.

I don't consider a fetus to have the status of a person anyway; a person is someone who has already been born.

Having kids is not [a basic human right].

I see.  So who gives you permission then?

Permission for what? You don't need a right to have kids to have them.

What about the woman's contributions to society? What if she could have been a genius who could forward advances in mankind technologically or otherwise, but instead is stuck with raising a kid?

Take this how you want, but I get the feeling that a genius would think about the consequences of their actions before they perform those actions.

Well Einstein was a genius, but he wasn't too successful in his love life.

Date Posted: August 06, 2007, 02:09:20 PM

Edit: Not saying I would encourage a rape victim to get an abortion. I really don't know what I would do in that situation.

Well, at the risk of sounding insensitive, **** happens.  Not everything in life can be bunnies and rainbows.  You lose 9 months of your life, but after that, you can put it up for adoption and actually give the kid a chance.  If someone has to die as a result of rape, it should be the rapist, not the baby.

So, are you for or against an exception for rape victims?

[MegamanX]

Fetus doesn't care about pursuit for happiness. Fetus doesn't care if the right for pursuit of happiness is taken away. Fetus doesn't know what pursuit for happiness is . Fetus doesn't know what happiness is. Fetus doesn't know that it exists. Fetus isn't really even human yet.

You, sir, are ignorant.

A fetus acknowledges pain before it is even born. It is fully aware of when it is getting aborted, therefore it has feelings. Yes, maybe it doesn't have much in the way of thought or happiness, but instead of giving it the chance of developing, you'd rather slaughter it before it even has a chance to live?

Good job on promoting murder. Because that's what abortion is.

I actually laughed at that one. A fetus that is fully aware that it is being aborted and has feelings? If that was the case then we would all remember the times when we were still fetuses.

ABORTION IS AWESOME!

[LtKillroy]

The fetus is not a leach becuase to be a leach you can't have the host' consent. Even if you are using birth control, you still know full well you can get pregnant. If you ever have to deny someone's rights and ask the question "Whose rights are more important" something is wrong with America, the country with equal rights for all.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Having the desire for sex or even intimacy is a completely naturally occurring process, however. Sometimes not everyone can control it. It can be restrained, but not all of the time, and birth control isn't a 100% guarantee, either.

And sometimes not everyone can control gambling.  Should you kill the debt collectors to get rid of your problem?

It doesn't matter if the fetus has a chance at life or not because it lacks any kind of consciousness.

So it's perfectly acceptable to euthanize brain-dead people, or people in comas?

Brain-dead and comatose people do not require the use of a woman's body to live.

Maybe you didn't notice, but he had a completely different argument than you.  I was responding to his claims, not yours.

By that logic, we shouldn't treat people who contract sexually transmitted diseases unless they were raped.

Exactly, its your fault you got an STD from someone.

So if you get hit by a car, we should leave you by the side of the road to die. It's your fault for crossing the street, after all.

Apples to oranges.  You can't control who is driving or how they're driving.  You CAN control who sticks what into you.

[Twistkill]

And sometimes not everyone can control gambling.  Should you kill the debt collectors to get rid of your problem?

I'm on your side, that was only responding to his post. :S

I actually laughed at that one. A fetus that is fully aware that it is being aborted and has feelings? If that was the case then we would all remember the times when we were still fetuses.

ABORTION IS AWESOME!

I never said fetuses have long-term memories, I said they knows when they feel pain. Stop being such a troll.

[Anna]

Fetus doesn't care about pursuit for happiness. Fetus doesn't care if the right for pursuit of happiness is taken away. Fetus doesn't know what pursuit for happiness is . Fetus doesn't know what happiness is. Fetus doesn't know that it exists. Fetus isn't really even human yet.

You, sir, are ignorant.

A fetus acknowledges pain before it is even born. It is fully aware of when it is getting aborted, therefore it has feelings. Yes, maybe it doesn't have much in the way of thought or happiness, but instead of giving it the chance of developing, you'd rather slaughter it before it even has a chance to live?

Good job on promoting murder. Because that's what abortion is.

So how much jail time should women get for abortions?

[MegamanX]

It's a parasite because it uses the host's resources without asking or providing anything else in return. It's that simple. There's no special rules on how you have to get the parasite in order to call it one.

[Twistkill]

So how much jail time should women get for abortions?

There shouldn't be any jail time as of now, because it's still unfortunately legal. It should just not be allowed anymore.