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A good solution would be to abort all the retard babies.
Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 07:44:39 pmI'm pretty sure the only female on the forum has never been pregnant either. We're just as qualified as she is to talk about it.Not only have you not ever been pregnant, but you don't even have the possibility of becoming pregnant. Ever. As a female person of reproductive age I think I am slightly more qualified than you are.
I'm pretty sure the only female on the forum has never been pregnant either. We're just as qualified as she is to talk about it.
Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 10:45:34 pmQuote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 08:57:41 pmI think that humans are different from animals because of the degree of self-awareness we are able to achieve. A fetus does not develop self-awareness until some time after birth. At the early stages, which is when most abortions happen, it's not much better than a plant.But by that logic, it's also completely ethical to kill babies for a short while after they're born. Are you for that as well?No, because after they are born they no longer require the use of the uterus. The woman can give the baby up for adoption if she doesn't want it.
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 08:57:41 pmI think that humans are different from animals because of the degree of self-awareness we are able to achieve. A fetus does not develop self-awareness until some time after birth. At the early stages, which is when most abortions happen, it's not much better than a plant.But by that logic, it's also completely ethical to kill babies for a short while after they're born. Are you for that as well?
I think that humans are different from animals because of the degree of self-awareness we are able to achieve. A fetus does not develop self-awareness until some time after birth. At the early stages, which is when most abortions happen, it's not much better than a plant.
Too bad I wasn't comparing getting pregnant to getting hit by a train.
Quote from: a-4-year-old on August 06, 2007, 06:51:09 pmshe gets pregnant when she does not want to be pregnant then she is irresposible,Yeah, and people who contract STDs from having sex or get hit by a train should not be treated, because they were irresponsible and they must live with the consequences of their actions. Right?
she gets pregnant when she does not want to be pregnant then she is irresposible,
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 07:41:34 pmAccording to your logic, it should be illegal to treat people with STDs and people who were hit by a train.Let's put this into context. If the person who got hit by a train required a heart transplant from a living person (effectively killing that person), then yes, it should be illegal to treat them.
According to your logic, it should be illegal to treat people with STDs and people who were hit by a train.
I didn't say opposing abortion makes you a woman hater. I said that opposing abortion on the grounds that women deserve to be punished for having sex for reasons other than procreation makes you a woman hater. If it was really all about the life of the fetus, the sluttiness of the woman would never have come up.
Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:30:03 amQuote from: SadistAtHeart on August 06, 2007, 11:21:38 amQuote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:16:29 amOr, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?Maybe she should wait until then to have sex. Like I said, actions have consequences. You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later. If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby. Otherwise you're just irresponsible.Yeah, punish those sluts!!
Quote from: SadistAtHeart on August 06, 2007, 11:21:38 amQuote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:16:29 amOr, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?Maybe she should wait until then to have sex. Like I said, actions have consequences. You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later. If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby. Otherwise you're just irresponsible.
Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:16:29 amOr, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?
Or, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.
The issue is not fetal life vs. fetal death, it's women's rights vs. fetal rights.
I tend to get a little pissed off when people talk about wanting to deny me my rights.
Why can't you just allow women to make their own decisions with their own lives just like how people make the decision to smoke or drink or to live certain lifestyles.
when you think about what can be done with aborted fetuses (ie. stem cell research) it can serve a use which can go towards helping people.
Quote from: jrgp on September 30, 2010, 03:36:50 pmOnly anime shows I've felt any interest in over the years are Pokemon (original TV series) and various hentai.so clearly jgrp is a goddamn anime connoisseur. his opinion might as well be law here.
Only anime shows I've felt any interest in over the years are Pokemon (original TV series) and various hentai.
Best Admin: jrgp, he's like the forum mom and a pet dog rolled into one.
There's also cases where abortion could certainly be warranted. If childbirth could kill the woman (and it can, in some cases) or if the child has a severe mental defect, abortion can be justified.
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 08:57:41 pmQuote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 07:44:39 pmI'm pretty sure the only female on the forum has never been pregnant either. We're just as qualified as she is to talk about it.Not only have you not ever been pregnant, but you don't even have the possibility of becoming pregnant. Ever. As a female person of reproductive age I think I am slightly more qualified than you are.Yes, in the same way that any Jewish person is "more qualified" to talk about how bad concentration camps were, even if they've never actually been in one. You don't gain experience by being part of a group; you gain it by performing the action.
Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 07:44:39 pmI'm pretty sure the only female on the forum has never been pregnant either. We're just as qualified as she is to talk about it.Not only have you not ever been pregnant, but you don't even have the possibility of becoming pregnant. Ever. As a female person of reproductive age I think I am slightly more qualified than you are.
I'm pretty sure the only female on the forum has never been pregnant either. We're just as qualified as she is to talk about it.
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmQuote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 10:45:34 pmQuote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 08:57:41 pmI think that humans are different from animals because of the degree of self-awareness we are able to achieve. A fetus does not develop self-awareness until some time after birth. At the early stages, which is when most abortions happen, it's not much better than a plant.But by that logic, it's also completely ethical to kill babies for a short while after they're born. Are you for that as well?No, because after they are born they no longer require the use of the uterus. The woman can give the baby up for adoption if she doesn't want it.Then you should give that as a reason, instead of saying that abortion is alright because a fetus isn't "human" yet. And doesn't that also imply that babies who need an incubator after they are born are still abortable? Ungrateful parasites, wasting the hospital's time and money like that...
Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 10:45:34 pmQuote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 08:57:41 pmI think that humans are different from animals because of the degree of self-awareness we are able to achieve. A fetus does not develop self-awareness until some time after birth. At the early stages, which is when most abortions happen, it's not much better than a plant.But by that logic, it's also completely ethical to kill babies for a short while after they're born. Are you for that as well?No, because after they are born they no longer require the use of the uterus. The woman can give the baby up for adoption if she doesn't want it.
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 08:57:41 pmI think that humans are different from animals because of the degree of self-awareness we are able to achieve. A fetus does not develop self-awareness until some time after birth. At the early stages, which is when most abortions happen, it's not much better than a plant.But by that logic, it's also completely ethical to kill babies for a short while after they're born. Are you for that as well?
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmToo bad I wasn't comparing getting pregnant to getting hit by a train.If I may cite an example to the contrary:Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 07:22:15 pmQuote from: a-4-year-old on August 06, 2007, 06:51:09 pmshe gets pregnant when she does not want to be pregnant then she is irresposible,Yeah, and people who contract STDs from having sex or get hit by a train should not be treated, because they were irresponsible and they must live with the consequences of their actions. Right?You repeated the analogy later as well, and I responded to it:Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 08:17:39 pmQuote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 07:41:34 pmAccording to your logic, it should be illegal to treat people with STDs and people who were hit by a train.Let's put this into context. If the person who got hit by a train required a heart transplant from a living person (effectively killing that person), then yes, it should be illegal to treat them.
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 07:41:34 pmAccording to your logic, it should be illegal to treat people with STDs and people who were hit by a train.Let's put this into context. If the person who got hit by a train required a heart transplant from a living person (effectively killing that person), then yes, it should be illegal to treat them.
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmI didn't say opposing abortion makes you a woman hater. I said that opposing abortion on the grounds that women deserve to be punished for having sex for reasons other than procreation makes you a woman hater. If it was really all about the life of the fetus, the sluttiness of the woman would never have come up.It came up because you brought it up. Should we add "straw man argument" to your list of fallacies? Anyway, just for context:Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:32:32 amQuote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:30:03 amQuote from: SadistAtHeart on August 06, 2007, 11:21:38 amQuote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:16:29 amOr, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?Maybe she should wait until then to have sex. Like I said, actions have consequences. You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later. If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby. Otherwise you're just irresponsible.Yeah, punish those sluts!!Now do you see why I don't want you responding to topics not addressed to you? It's because you make an irrelevant comment on a side discussion, then use that as a basis for how I feel for TEN MORE PAGES.
Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:30:03 amQuote from: SadistAtHeart on August 06, 2007, 11:21:38 amQuote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:16:29 amOr, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?Maybe she should wait until then to have sex. Like I said, actions have consequences. You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later. If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby. Otherwise you're just irresponsible.Yeah, punish those sluts!!
Quote from: SadistAtHeart on August 06, 2007, 11:21:38 amQuote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 on August 06, 2007, 11:16:29 amOr, if having a baby is SUCH A HASSLE (ungrateful parasites), she should just get the equivalent of a vasectomy.What if she wants to have a baby later on in life?Maybe she should wait until then to have sex. Like I said, actions have consequences. You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later. If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby. Otherwise you're just irresponsible.
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmThe issue is not fetal life vs. fetal death, it's women's rights vs. fetal rights.Ok. But since my stance has always been that fetuses are human and therefore share human rights, the destruction of them is immoral and should be illegal. Your rights stop short of violating someone else's.
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmI tend to get a little pissed off when people talk about wanting to deny me my rights.That's simply an unrealistic extrapolation of the situation. If I went on private property and got arrested for trespassing, I could shout all I wanted, "The Bill of Rights protects me! I have the right to move about freely at home or abroad!" That doesn't mean that my rights have been violated; it means I'm trying to dig up sympathy points because "the man" is holding me down.
An incubation machine does not have the rights of a woman.
If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.
Quote from: {LAW} Gamer_2k4 in Anna's postIf you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.You think that's being sexist? No, no, he's really being honest here. I mean, I can't truly know about LAW Gamer's perspective, but I at least would certainly declare the same for guys who are having promiscuous sex (if it were possible).
Your rights don't matter when they infringe on someone else'sLike "Oh i don't want the inconvenience of putting a baby up for adoption so killing it is the best answer"
Exactly: the fetus is infringing on the rights of the woman by using her uterus against her will, and the only way to stop it is to kill it.
It's ridiculous that you think you are equaly qualified to make decisions about this issue. This is exactly the problem I have: men making decisions about women's bodies.
That is a comparison of refusal to treat someone who was "stupid" enough to contract an STD/get hit by a train to refusal to treat pregnancy on the grounds that the woman was "stupid" enough to get pregnant.You were comparing punishment for having sex for pleasure to punishment for stealing candy. This only makes sense if you think having sex for pleasure is immoral or should be illegal. If that's the case, then men should be punished for consensual sex resulting in unwanted pregnancy as well. However you only want to punish women.
Your heart transplant example changes the issue to the value of the fetus/person with the heart, which was not the point of the analogy.
QuoteNow do you see why I don't want you responding to topics not addressed to you? It's because you make an irrelevant comment on a side discussion, then use that as a basis for how I feel for TEN MORE PAGES.You apparently don't understand the meaning of your words.Like I said, actions have consequences. You can't sleep around willy-nilly now, then get serious later.= sluttiness is bad. If you are a slut, you will get punished.
Now do you see why I don't want you responding to topics not addressed to you? It's because you make an irrelevant comment on a side discussion, then use that as a basis for how I feel for TEN MORE PAGES.
If you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.= if being slutty makes you pregnant, you should expect to be forced to have the baby as punishment.
Otherwise you're just irresponsible.= we can't have you go unpunished, you slut.
Your hatred of women is very relevant to this discussion. Like I said, if you only cared about the fetus, you would not have brought up the morality of the woman's actions in getting pregnant, because it does not affect the value of the life of the fetus.
The unwanted fetus isn't just sitting around minding its own business. It lives in the uterus against the woman's will, violating the rights of the woman.
QuoteQuote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmI tend to get a little pissed off when people talk about wanting to deny me my rights.That's simply an unrealistic extrapolation of the situation. If I went on private property and got arrested for trespassing, I could shout all I wanted, "The Bill of Rights protects me! I have the right to move about freely at home or abroad!" That doesn't mean that my rights have been violated; it means I'm trying to dig up sympathy points because "the man" is holding me down.Huh? You're talking about making abortion illegal. Would that not affect my rights, being in possession of a uterus?
Quote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmI tend to get a little pissed off when people talk about wanting to deny me my rights.That's simply an unrealistic extrapolation of the situation. If I went on private property and got arrested for trespassing, I could shout all I wanted, "The Bill of Rights protects me! I have the right to move about freely at home or abroad!" That doesn't mean that my rights have been violated; it means I'm trying to dig up sympathy points because "the man" is holding me down.
The only one talking about denying you your rights is you. The rest of us are debating about a fetus's humanity and it's subsequent rights as a human being. But you're throwing a fit, yelling at us for things we didn't say, and assuming that everyone is against you. THEY'RE NOT. It's not always about you.Oh, and as for your little sob story about the innocent woman who is a victim of the heartless fetus, forget it. There are more lives involved than just hers, and destroying someone's potential because it inconveniences you is wrong no matter how you look at it.
Oh well, I'm hiring people for my business, but only people with ovaries are allowed to apply for the job. I'm being honest, not sexist; after all, if dudes had ovaries I would certainly hire them too!
Quote from: Anna on August 07, 2007, 10:06:45 amIt's ridiculous that you think you are equaly qualified to make decisions about this issue. This is exactly the problem I have: men making decisions about women's bodies.I'm not saying that I'm as qualified as a pregnant woman. Obviously I'm not. But I don't believe you are either, for reasons that I already gave.
Quote from: Anna on August 07, 2007, 10:06:45 amIf you're going to act in a way that may make you pregnant, you should be ready to have that baby.= if being slutty makes you pregnant, you should expect to be forced to have the baby as punishment.Your biased views make it maddening to try to have a civil debate. BEING A MOTHER IS NOT PUNISHMENT! THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING A CHILD AND TAKING CARE OF IT!
If your actions cause a baby to be formed, it is your responsibility as THE MOTHER OF THAT BABY to support it, nourish it, and do your best to ensure that it has a happy life.
Quote from: Anna on August 07, 2007, 10:06:45 amYour hatred of women is very relevant to this discussion. Like I said, if you only cared about the fetus, you would not have brought up the morality of the woman's actions in getting pregnant, because it does not affect the value of the life of the fetus.Stop doing that! Stop putting words in my mouth. I never brought up the morality of getting pregnant. My initial argument was that if you get pregnant, it is almost always because of actions you chose to take. I never voiced an opinion on whether those actions were intrinsically right or wrong. But you assume that "consequence" is synonymous with "punishment," and therefore infer that I feel that fornication is wrong. I may feel that way, but I never said so, and I NEVER used it as the basis of an argument.
As for the whole "hatred of women" thing, get over it. Disagreeing with you does NOT mean that I hate women. I just think that unborn people should have the same rights as people who have been born. If you feel that you lose some rights in the process, tough. If you feel that raising a fetus to your level of humanity is sexist discrimination, you couldn't be more wrong.
Quote from: Anna on August 07, 2007, 10:06:45 amThe unwanted fetus isn't just sitting around minding its own business. It lives in the uterus against the woman's will, violating the rights of the woman.See below.Quote from: Anna on August 07, 2007, 10:06:45 amQuoteQuote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmI tend to get a little pissed off when people talk about wanting to deny me my rights.That's simply an unrealistic extrapolation of the situation. If I went on private property and got arrested for trespassing, I could shout all I wanted, "The Bill of Rights protects me! I have the right to move about freely at home or abroad!" That doesn't mean that my rights have been violated; it means I'm trying to dig up sympathy points because "the man" is holding me down.Huh? You're talking about making abortion illegal. Would that not affect my rights, being in possession of a uterus?While you were posting, I modified my response in order to make it slightly clearer how I feel:QuoteThe only one talking about denying you your rights is you. The rest of us are debating about a fetus's humanity and it's subsequent rights as a human being. But you're throwing a fit, yelling at us for things we didn't say, and assuming that everyone is against you. THEY'RE NOT. It's not always about you.
QuoteQuote from: Anna on August 06, 2007, 11:47:34 pmI tend to get a little pissed off when people talk about wanting to deny me my rights.That's simply an unrealistic extrapolation of the situation. If I went on private property and got arrested for trespassing, I could shout all I wanted, "The Bill of Rights protects me! I have the right to move about freely at home or abroad!" That doesn't mean that my rights have been violated; it means I'm trying to dig up sympathy points because "the man" is holding me down.Huh? You're talking about making abortion illegal. Would that not affect my rights, being in possession of a uterus?
The only one talking about denying you your rights is you. The rest of us are debating about a fetus's humanity and it's subsequent rights as a human being. But you're throwing a fit, yelling at us for things we didn't say, and assuming that everyone is against you. THEY'RE NOT. It's not always about you.
Oh, and as for your little sob story about the innocent woman who is a victim of the heartless fetus, forget it. There are more lives involved than just hers, and destroying someone's potential because it inconveniences you is wrong no matter how you look at it.
Date Posted: August 07, 2007, 10:54:11 AMQuote from: Anna on August 07, 2007, 10:35:31 amOh well, I'm hiring people for my business, but only people with ovaries are allowed to apply for the job. I'm being honest, not sexist; after all, if dudes had ovaries I would certainly hire them too!Now you're just ranting. Stay on topic. (No, this post isn't sexist discrimination)
Raising the humanity of fetal life at the expense of the humanity of women is sexist discrimination.