Abortion

[Will]

We aren't endangered...yet





That's how you anti abortionists respond to any argument that we say. You always find something to cling onto. And, Gamer, you seem like an intellligent person and I respect you for that, but you suck when it comes to abortions


From that pro choice blog (quote from some guy in comments)

I’m pro-choice because I’ve watched a woman giving birth twice, and who the fuck am I, as a guy, to tell any woman she has to go through that when she doesn’t want to?

[a-4-year-old]

I'm pro-life because I've talked to people who would have been aborted, and who the fuck am I, as a person to tell anyone they shouldn't live?

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

I understand that the fact that you value the life of the fetus is your main argument against abortion. But the very first thing you said in response to me was "Aside from that, if you're going to have sex (the evolutionary goal of which is to produce offspring), you'd better be prepared for the consequences." That's your anti-sex bias showing. It's not your place to tell people what the consequences should be for doing things you disagree with. And since it only applies to women, it makes you look like you don't like women very much.

It's not an anti-sex bias any more than "If you use electricity, you'd better be prepared to pay the bill" is an anti-electricity bias.  I'm not just pulling the consequences (read: repercussions, not punishment) out of the air either.  For eons sex has resulted in pregnancy, and subsequent birth.  That's not something I made up, and I'm not putting myself in any sort of authority position by telling people that.

And since pregnancy only applies to women, it's not fair to say that I dislike women, because there's nothing to base it against.  If both men and women could get pregnant, and I said, "Men can get abortions but women can't," THAT would be a dislike of women.  I just think that each parent should do their part.  Men, for example, should stick around and support the mother and baby.  You know what? That takes away a huge part of their life.  That doesn't mean I hate men.

Pregnancy may be gender-specific, but there's a lot more to having a baby than just the pregnancy.  I believe that both partners should share the responsibility for the child; women just happen to have to give birth.  This is completely natural, and has no bearing on the nature of accountability.

[RabidTreeFrog]

It's interesting that abortion and teen pregnancy rates are lower in countries where abortion is legal, people have access to birth control and comprehensive sex education, and sex is considered normal.

Another part of the abortion issue is the kind of sex education teens get. It's mostly abstinence based, with no information on how to have "safe sex." Abstinence doesn't help after a 15 year old's condom broke and the girl is douching with Coca-cola.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Another part of the abortion issue is the kind of sex education teens get. It's mostly abstinence based, with no information on how to have "safe sex." Abstinence doesn't help after a 15 year old's condom broke and the girl is douching with Coca-cola.

I don't know how they did it at your school, but at mine, we learned about the different contraceptives, then were told (and factually so) that abstinence was the only guaranteed way of preventing pregnancies.  That's doesn't make it an abstinence based approach.

Also, teaching safe sex methods to 14 year olds really seems like condoning pregnancy.  It's like telling people how to break into a building without damaging anything.  And before anyone says "Ha, there you go again, Gamer.  You're comparing sex to an illegal activity," you need to remember that sex among minors IS illegal.  Abstinence SHOULD be taught, at least in high school, because any other action on the part of a teenager is wrong, both morally AND legally.

[RabidTreeFrog]

Another part of the abortion issue is the kind of sex education teens get. It's mostly abstinence based, with no information on how to have "safe sex." Abstinence doesn't help after a 15 year old's condom broke and the girl is douching with Coca-cola.

I don't know how they did it at your school, but at mine, we learned about the different contraceptives, then were told (and factually so) that abstinence was the only guaranteed way of preventing pregnancies.  That's doesn't make it an abstinence based approach.

Hah, contraceptives? Schools around here don't teach you about contraceptives. They go for the "shock" approach. Tell you that sex is bad and will cause AIDS, pregnancy, guarenteed, and drop it. They don't mention birth control, or any other contraceptive. They mentioned condoms once, they said that one in two are defective.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Hah, contraceptives? Schools around here don't teach you about contraceptives. They go for the "shock" approach. Tell you that sex is bad and will cause AIDS, pregnancy, guarenteed, and drop it. They don't mention birth control, or any other contraceptive. They mentioned condoms once, they said that one in two are defective.

Hmm.  I must have had a good school then.

[SDFilm]

Hah, contraceptives? Schools around here don't teach you about contraceptives. They go for the "shock" approach. Tell you that sex is bad and will cause AIDS, pregnancy, guarenteed, and drop it. They don't mention birth control, or any other contraceptive. They mentioned condoms once, they said that one in two are defective.

Catholic school?

[RabidTreeFrog]

Hah, contraceptives? Schools around here don't teach you about contraceptives. They go for the "shock" approach. Tell you that sex is bad and will cause AIDS, pregnancy, guarenteed, and drop it. They don't mention birth control, or any other contraceptive. They mentioned condoms once, they said that one in two are defective.

Catholic school?

Nope, public.

[Anna]

Before I started reading about feminism I had a different argument for abortion.

Unwanted pregnancy, birth, and childcare causes more suffering to the woman than abortion.
Being born, living life, and dying causes more suffering to the child than it would to die in the womb, before it has any concept of suffering.
Therefore abortion is a better choice for unwanted pregnancy because not having an abortion leads to more suffering than having one.

I still think this is true but I don't think the calculation of suffering is really defensible.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Unwanted pregnancy, birth, and childcare causes more suffering to the woman than abortion.

Not necessarily true.  Many women suffer emotionally after having an abortion.

Being born, living life, and dying causes more suffering to the child than it would to die in the womb, before it has any concept of suffering.

That's just stating the obvious.  Should we abort every baby and end suffering on earth?

[Anna]

Unwanted pregnancy, birth, and childcare causes more suffering to the woman than abortion.

Not necessarily true.  Many women suffer emotionally after having an abortion.

Not as much as what they would suffer from being forced to give birth.

Being born, living life, and dying causes more suffering to the child than it would to die in the womb, before it has any concept of suffering.

That's just stating the obvious.  Should we abort every baby and end suffering on earth?

Only the unwanted ones.

[Smegma]

We aren't endangered...yet

You are a fucking idiot.

[Dascoo]

We aren't endangered...yet

You are a ****ing idiot.

Seconded.

[reckon]

Didnt read this thread, Im sure there were many ignorant rants and rebuttals.
I dont feel like commenting, but to ANYONE who is pro-life, watch this please:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo
Take 7 minutes out of you life to watch religious pro-lifers get owned.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Take 7 minutes out of you life to watch religious pro-lifers get owned.

Did those seven people make up the entire protest? If not, what percentage of the protesters did they make up? And what did the others say?

The video doesn't provide any context, and therefore should not be considered a credible source.