Abortion: a question

[Chakra]

Yes, let us conveniently ignore the fact that only women can get pregnant.

And only a man can make a woman pregnant. Equality doesn't mean we get to be capable of the same things. Kinda like the soldat balance, but thats stretching things...not a pregnancy pun.

Am I gonna have to rummage through that entire mundane abortion thread to discover what you're actually getting at luv? Lord knows I can't stand to witness that late age of puberty that has suddenly been evoked to the masses, where they start to fathom 'the big picture' all too often in their sudden philosophical and moral nonage... so don't make me look there. Theres a female-equality-awareness motive around here somewhere, and i'm not really sure where it's going or what it's up to.

[Anna]

Yes, let us conveniently ignore the fact that only women can get pregnant.

And only a man can make a woman pregnant. Equality doesn't mean we get to be capable of the same things. Kinda like the soldat balance, but thats stretching things...not a pregnancy pun.

Am I gonna have to rummage through that entire mundane abortion thread to discover what you're actually getting at luv? Lord knows I can't stand to witness that late age of puberty that has suddenly been evoked to the masses, where they start to fathom 'the big picture' all too often in their sudden philosophical and moral nonage... so don't make me look there. Theres a female-equality-awareness motive around here somewhere, and i'm not really sure where it's going or what it's up to.

For one thing I would like get certain people to either take back the slut-punishing argument or admit that the only purpose of this argument is to punish sluts.

The value of fetal life is probably something we'll have to agree to disagree on, although it would be nice if they just came out and said that they value the life of a clump of cells over the equality of women. I don't think you can consider the fetus to be so valuable without having some amount of contempt for women.

In this thread I'm trying to show how ridiculous it is to say that abortion is murder, regardless of the value of the fetus, and also that some people who are normally against abortion suddenly aren't sure of their opinion if men are affected too.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

For one thing I would like get certain people to either take back the slut-punishing argument or admit that the only purpose of this argument is to punish sluts.

You saw my reply here.  It's completely consistent with everything I said in the other thread, and you know what? It's a valid position, perfectly logical, and it has nothing to do with punishing sluts.

And you know what's ironic?  By introducing men into the equation, you've PROVED that this can't be about punishing sluts.  If men have equal accountability, then you can't degrade the debate to some some feminist rant, and we're right back to the start: That unborn babies have the same rights as their parents. 

[Anna]

For one thing I would like get certain people to either take back the slut-punishing argument or admit that the only purpose of this argument is to punish sluts.

You saw my reply here.  It's completely consistent with everything I said in the other thread, and you know what? It's a valid position, perfectly logical, and it has nothing to do with punishing sluts.

And you know what's ironic?  By introducing men into the equation, you've PROVED that this can't be about punishing sluts.  If men have equal accountability, then you can't degrade the debate to some some feminist rant, and we're right back to the start: That unborn babies have the same rights as their parents. 

Men have never been shamed for being slutty; in fact it's considered manly to have lots of sex. So somehow I doubt that the "taking responsibility" argument would ever be used against men if men could get pregnant. Nobody expects men to stop having sex except you.

[SirJamesaford]

Men have never been shamed for being slutty

WRONG!!!!!!! Never say never Anna cuz ive heard a million ppl "shame" men for being "slutty".

[Smegma]

Men have never been shamed for being slutty; in fact it's considered manly to have lots of sex. So somehow I doubt that the "taking responsibility" argument would ever be used against men if men could get pregnant. Nobody expects men to stop having sex except you.

Men sure as hell have been called slutty.

[Anna]

Men have never been shamed for being slutty; in fact it's considered manly to have lots of sex. So somehow I doubt that the "taking responsibility" argument would ever be used against men if men could get pregnant. Nobody expects men to stop having sex except you.

Men sure as hell have been called slutty.

As an insult?

[Fluffy]

I'd be insulted...

[SirJamesaford]

Men have never been shamed for being slutty; in fact it's considered manly to have lots of sex. So somehow I doubt that the "taking responsibility" argument would ever be used against men if men could get pregnant. Nobody expects men to stop having sex except you.

Men sure as hell have been called slutty.

As an insult?

Plenty of times.

[Smegma]

Men have never been shamed for being slutty; in fact it's considered manly to have lots of sex. So somehow I doubt that the "taking responsibility" argument would ever be used against men if men could get pregnant. Nobody expects men to stop having sex except you.

Men sure as hell have been called slutty.

As an insult?

Um, fuck yes.

[Anna]

Men have never been shamed for being slutty; in fact it's considered manly to have lots of sex. So somehow I doubt that the "taking responsibility" argument would ever be used against men if men could get pregnant. Nobody expects men to stop having sex except you.

Men sure as hell have been called slutty.

As an insult?

Um, **** yes.

I've never heard it used on men.

The only insulting thing I can think of about a man being called a slut is that it implies he is a woman.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Nobody expects men to stop having sex except you.

Well, would you rather have me argue something that ISN'T my opinion?

[ThunderPantz]

There is a new medical procedure that makes it possible for men to use their bodies to incubate fetuses that they helped concieve.

A woman gets pregnant from having sex with a man. Early in the pregnancy, it is discovered that the woman will soon die for reasons unrelated to the pregnancy. Unless the fetus is implanted into the man, the fetus will die with her.

The man doesn't want to have the baby.

Should the fetus be implanted into the man's body against his will, forcing the man to use his body to incubate the fetus?

Depends which hole the baby comes out.

[Smegma]

I've never heard it used on men.

The only insulting thing I can think of about a man being called a slut is that it implies he is a woman.

Then go out and meet more men. I've been in the same room as it was used, and not to imply he had a pussy, but that he was promiscuous.

[Chakra]

Men sure as hell have been called slutty.

As an insult?

Heh. Here's a crazy opinion for ya. Yes, women are often looked down upon for sluttish behaviour by both sexes. Why, I can't say...perhaps a throwback to times where women were kept chasten, or maybe something more human and instinctive harking back to a caveman era, posessive/protective etc..
 Difference with man-sluts is that other men promote it among their buddies.... part of our unusual bonding rituals.
Theres many a women who look down on the man-slut types though, so i've observed, but it seems a lot of (respectable) women have a very open disrespect for female sluts too. In fact - and this is where my either progressive or pointless point of interest comes in - it could be argued that your own sex offers the most criticism to itself. Media, gossip, columns, cliques, role models, demanding bonding rituals, communities as a whole, there is not race or sex that has more to openly dictate and demandly uphold or break what is right and wrong about itself than women.

Anyhow, less of trying to find ways to blame and insult the virgin male populace around here, how about 'educating' them to any problems you see that man can be called fault for instead, and showing how they can change things for the better? Any woman should know (or believe) that you can slap a man in the face a dozen times and he won't learn anything without some kind of direct practical stimuli to get his logical problem-solving brain ticking.

...careful though with how you approach it though luv. A less than subtle touch'll get you tit-deep in a little sex war, and you may discover man has some nitpicks towards the fairer sex.

[Anna]

I've never heard it used on men.

The only insulting thing I can think of about a man being called a slut is that it implies he is a woman.

Then go out and meet more men. I've been in the same room as it was used, and not to imply he had a pussy, but that he was promiscuous.

I guess the definition of slut is out of date then.

Men sure as hell have been called slutty.

As an insult?

Heh. Here's a crazy opinion for ya. Yes, women are often looked down upon for sluttish behaviour by both sexes. Why, I can't say...perhaps a throwback to times where women were kept chasten, or maybe something more human and instinctive harking back to a caveman era, posessive/protective etc..

Yes, it's called control and oppression.

Difference with man-sluts is that other men promote it among their buddies.... part of our unusual bonding rituals.
Theres many a women who look down on the man-slut types though, so i've observed, but it seems a lot of (respectable) women have a very open disrespect for female sluts too. In fact - and this is where my either progressive or pointless point of interest comes in - it could be argued that your own sex offers the most criticism to itself. Media, gossip, columns, cliques, role models, demanding bonding rituals, communities as a whole, there is not race or sex that has more to openly dictate and demandly uphold or break what is right and wrong about itself than women.

That's true, there are plenty of women who have internalized patriarchal thought.

Anyhow, less of trying to find ways to blame and insult the virgin male populace around here, how about 'educating' them to any problems you see that man can be called fault for instead, and showing how they can change things for the better? Any woman should know (or believe) that you can slap a man in the face a dozen times and he won't learn anything without some kind of direct practical stimuli to get his logical problem-solving brain ticking.

...careful though with how you approach it though luv. A less than subtle touch'll get you tit-deep in a little sex war, and you may discover man has some nitpicks towards the fairer sex.

That's too much work, if people are interested in feminism they can do their own research. I'm going to call people on their patriarchal bull**** when I see it but I'm not going to go out of my way to educate everyone, especially since most men don't want to hear what I have to say.

[Smegma]

That's too much work, if people are interested in feminism they can do their own research. I'm going to call people on their patriarchal bull**** when I see it but I'm not going to go out of my way to educate everyone, especially since most men don't want to hear what I have to say.

Its because you sound as stereotypical as much as your view of men.

[Tallacaps]

That's a stupid question.
Obviously it's better to implant the fetus in another woman.

[Keron Cyst]

... The value of fetal life is probably something we'll have to agree to disagree on, although it would be nice if they just came out and said that they value the life of a clump of cells over the equality of women. I don't think you can consider the fetus to be so valuable without having some amount of contempt for women.

Hm... that's an interesting thought, but I'd already anticipated this in the original thread; I mean, you could take it even farther and bash the two right against each other—what if the fetus was discovered to be female? In that case, you're declaring that the rights of women are superior to the rights of women, in either case! Circular logic there, d00dette. And, as I pointed out in the original abortion thread, you're treating the fetus like some kind of inhuman creature that will never become human. It only remains a "leech" for so long, and even afterwards it becomes able to take care of its "incubator"; what other parasite is there that is willing to—no, is literally able to do so?

This thing is more than a mere clump of cells you're talking about, so it—or at the bare minimum, its future potential—shouldn't be handled lightly.

[karmazon]

When people have a lot of sex:

Men are pimp sugar mac daddys

Women are sluts

Men provide the sperm
Women get pregnant

This is the way of nature, and just how it should be. Would I let someone implant a baby into me? Fuck no, I'd cave their face in with my fists.