What was wrong with the 1.2.1 balance?

[6th_account]

placid joo troll. Go play CS then or make joor own unbalanced weapon mod on joor server.

This is why we don't listen to the public!!!! Too much baised ignorance

[placid]

placid joo troll. Go play CS then or make joor own unbalanced weapon mod on joor server.

This is why we don't listen to the public!!!! Too much baised ignorance

I guess it was silly of me to expect a valid response to my arguments.

Date Posted: August 21, 2007, 03:14:58 PM

Sorry but many of us use weapons we like hoping that they get more balanced(Why hello there, mp5)

I'm talking about balancing the game for pubs, vs balancing it for competition.  I'm all for weapon balance, I'm not for attempting to make every single weapon in the game viable in competition.  It won't have a positive effect on pubs, and you'll still only see a few dominant weapons in competition.

[The Owls]

Placid, I don't think you have point to your argument.  Unless your saying you want there to be only a few weapons used for clanwars.  Which is just plain stupid.  The balance is done to try to make every weapon usable in both clanwars, and pubs.  While it will never be perfect, the balancers can only do the best they can.

[placid]

Placid, I don't think you have point to your argument.  Unless your saying you want there to be only a few weapons used for clanwars.  Which is just plain stupid.  The balance is done to try to make every weapon usable in both clanwars, and pubs.  While it will never be perfect, the balancers can only do the best they can.

I don't think you understand what competition is.  In a truly competitive environment, every advantage available is going to be used.  No matter how hard you try to balance every weapon perfectly, you will not succeed.  There will always be a few weapons which are clearly superior to others in competition, and truly competitive teams will always use those weapons exclusively.  Whether or not I want it to be that way is irrelevant.

You can not balance the weapons for both competition and pubs.  The gap in skill is too big, and the two different types of players (competitive players, and average pubbies) find their fun in the game in different ways.

The point to my argument is that the game is not as fun since 1.2 because of the various nerfs/buffs to all the weapons, and that the goal of those changes, is not attainable.  Even in pubs I see less weapon diversity now, then I did in 1.2, despite some obviously overpowered weapons.  Some changes are good, but as a whole, they've taken away from the fun of the game to me.

[The Owls]

So now that the weapons need you to hit a few more shots, you say it's unbalanced and that it's no more fun?  And so according to you the whole fun of the game is that there's a diverse set of weapons out there, when in fact that's what the game is trying for.  While the steyr does seem to be the most dominate autos, I still see a lot of ak's out there, and every so often a minimi and an HK. 

The balance isn't the weapons, even though a evened weapon set is very helpful.  It's the players and the maps.  On maps like nuubia, you'll see a lot of m79's, and close range weapons such as the shotty and other semi's.  While on maps like Laos, you'll see the top dominated by autos almost non-stop. 

I'd like to see what weapons you think are the overpowered ones that everyone uses, for both pubs, and gathers/scrims (if you even play in those).  Because combining all maps, I see quite a wide variety of weapon users in clan situations at least.

[placid]

So now that the weapons need you to hit a few more shots, you say it's unbalanced and that it's no more fun?  And so according to you the whole fun of the game is that there's a diverse set of weapons out there, when in fact that's what the game is trying for.  While the steyr does seem to be the most dominate autos, I still see a lot of ak's out there, and every so often a minimi and an HK. 

I never said it's unbalanced, or not fun.  The game is still fun, just not as fun as 1.2.  Some people are attempting to balance the weapons for COMPETITION, that is wrong.  Fact of the matter is the diversity in weapons has diminished since 1.2, yet these attempts at balance are supposed to make more weapons viable and increase diversity?

The balance isn't the weapons, even though a evened weapon set is very helpful.  It's the players and the maps.  On maps like nuubia, you'll see a lot of m79's, and close range weapons such as the shotty and other semi's.  While on maps like Laos, you'll see the top dominated by autos almost non-stop. 

This is true, but much more-so in competitive environments, which is exactly why I'm saying attempting to balance the weapons for competition is wrong.

I'd like to see what weapons you think are the overpowered ones that everyone uses, for both pubs, and gathers/scrims (if you even play in those).  Because combining all maps, I see quite a wide variety of weapon users in clan situations at least.

I never said any weapon was overpowered, however, the steyr is a perfect example of a weapon that has replaced a few others.  Why would you use the ak/minimi when the steyr is available?  In 1.2, the ak/minimi/steyr each had different uses.  In 1.4, I see no reason to use the ak/minimi over the steyr.  I'm not saying the steyr is overpowered, because in comparison to any weapon besides the ak/minimi, it isn't.  I'm complaining because the ak and minimi's unique characteristics are gone.

If anything your previous post has helped reinforce my argument, as you obviously agree on a couple of the same points I do.

[Ouchek]

On a serious note, you're a fool. Playing clanwars with half the people using steyrs sucks. Call me a communist, but I'd like to see all weapons get used.

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about...
Back in 1.2.1 times ALL THE WEAPONS WERE USED (minus the minigun), even though it was the less balanced weapon balance 'on the paper', it was in game the most balanced weapon balance ever...
Why? It's simple, since all the weapons were strong, anyone could do good with any weapon...and that's why it was fun, the game was way more fast-paced than it is now. Pure fun.
(also you didn't belong to the elite back then )
As a last arguement, I'm gonna tell you a fact, the good rugerers were unstoppable back in these days. All the weapons were being used cept that there werent as many people as now using spas12.

[truup]

On a serious note, you're a fool. Playing clanwars with half the people using steyrs sucks. Call me a communist, but I'd like to see all weapons get used.

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about...
Back in 1.2.1 times ALL THE WEAPONS WERE USED (minus the minigun), even though it was the less balanced weapon balance 'on the paper', it was in game the most balanced weapon balance ever...
Why? It's simple, since all the weapons were strong, anyone could do good with any weapon...and that's why it was fun, the game was way more fast-paced than it is now. Pure fun.
(also you didn't belong to the elite back then )
As a last arguement, I'm gonna tell you a fact, the good rugerers were unstoppable back in these days. All the weapons were being used cept that there werent as many people as now using spas12.

Ouchek for new weaponbalance meister master lord. Why? Because I'm licking him, prolly wanting to check his next clan, or cause I'm tired and talking bull****. Who knows?

(also you didn't belong to the elite back then )

I dont think that being EF's mascot is being elite. ^_^

Edit: JESUS OUCHEK 60 POSTS, YOU'RE FORUMWHORE AT ITS MAXIMUM. :O

[6th_account]

I appreciate the comment, Ouchek, but what did that have to do with what I said? :Q

[Ouchek]

You said you wanted to see all the weapons used, and they were all used back in the 1.2.1 times.

Also truup, I wasn't even in EF back in 1.2.1 times, hehehe. Besides I don't get your point, what you posting for?

[Fluffy]

I think spraying was overrated. The bullets hardly ever hit you and the damage was little. 1.2.1 was the best balance I've played, no matter what some clan players say.

[6th_account]

Yes all weapons were being used, just like now. But back then spraying was even worse. And Ak and Deagles were by far the most popular.

[Blue-ninja]

On a lighter side, bring back the 1.2.1 version, make them less powerful, fuse them with the perfect barret and m79 balance and you got it.

[mozzer]

DECISIONS DECISIONS


On a serious note, you're a fool. Playing clanwars with half the people using steyrs sucks. Call me a communist, but I'd like to see all weapons get used.
   

Agreed by all gatherer's and clanners

[Ouchek]

Yes all weapons were being used, just like now. But back then spraying was even worse. And Ak and Deagles were by far the most popular.

The spray is what scr.wed up the 121's weapon balance.
Nevertheless I disagree, they weren't "BY FAR" the most popular.
Actually there were more people using ak in 1.3/1 times than 1.2.1.

Oh and yeah I'm done posting here, getting pointless.

[6th_account]

then join the beta team joo silly <3

[placid]

the contrast in replies to oucheck's and my own posts is amusing

[6th_account]

That's cause ouchek wants a balance, not one good weapon and all others crap.

[placid]

I take it you failed English 101, I don't know how I could possibly make my point any clearer to you.

I'll give it a try though.  For each weapon to be equally balanced would be ideal to just about everybody, but attempting to balance weapons for competition is foolish.  One or two weapons will always be superior to all others for competition.  Even if it is by some barely significant factor, it will still be the most popular weapon, because that's the nature of competition.

I don't want one weapon to be clearly superior to all others.  I'd like an equal balance as well, but attempting to balance every weapon to be equally viable in competition is impossible without taking away the unique characteristics of each weapon.  Which has already happened to some degree.

If you can manage a constructive reply that would be appreciated, if you're just gonna come back with some more one line bull****, then **** off.

[SadistAtHeart]

I take it you failed English 101, I don't know how I could possibly make my point any clearer to you.

I'll give it a try though.  For each weapon to be equally balanced would be ideal to just about everybody, but attempting to balance weapons for competition is foolish.  One or two weapons will always be superior to all others for competition.  Even if it is by some barely significant factor, it will still be the most popular weapon, because that's the nature of competition.

I don't want one weapon to be clearly superior to all others.  I'd like an equal balance as well, but attempting to balance every weapon to be equally viable in competition is impossible without taking away the unique characteristics of each weapon.  Which has already happened to some degree.

If you can manage a constructive reply that would be appreciated, if you're just gonna come back with some more one line bull****, then **** off.

I disagree. I think we can achieve a balance that causes every weapon to be used equally without stripping the weapons of their unique characteristics. There's your constructive reply, friend.