What was wrong with the 1.2.1 balance?

[placid]

I'd like to remind you of the point to my argument in case it's been forgotten.  1.2 is funner than 1.4, and I believe it's because the so called balance changes have slowed the pace of the game, and that certain guns have lost the unique characteristics that made them enjoyable to use.

I disagree. I think we can achieve a balance that causes every weapon to be used equally without stripping the weapons of their unique characteristics. There's your constructive reply, friend.

I've outlined reasons as to why I think it's not possible, do you have any reason to believe otherwise?  Or just false hope?

[The Owls]

So according to you an evened balance is impossible?  Hardly.  While a perfect balance will never happen, each weapon is powerful in their own way.  And each is used in situations.  You can't tell me "Oh, steyr is overpowered and is the only auto worth using." (just an example of course) Because when it comes to maps like nuubia and ash, you will not see many steyrs out there.  They'll be switched for weapons like the mp5 and the AK.  Same goes with the semi's too. 

And you also seem to be saying that the weapons are now all very similar to each other and have lost their uniqueness?  That is just a bull-crap statement.  The only 2 weapons that are even remotely similar are the AK and the Minimi, and even that is stretching it, quite a bit.  Look through the weapons once, each one fires completely differently, and has different uses.  From range of shots, to types of bullets shot, and even the quickness of firing bullets.

Now your last point seems to be that 1.2 is "funner" (need I quote your last post about insulting someone on their English) then 1.4.  That is something that is different in everyone's eyes.  While yes the weapons deal less damage on average.  And the gameplay may be a bit slower, I along with many others still find this game enjoyable. 

[placid]

So according to you an evened balance is impossible?  Hardly.  While a perfect balance will never happen, each weapon is powerful in their own way.  And each is used in situations.  You can't tell me "Oh, steyr is overpowered and is the only auto worth using." (just an example of course) Because when it comes to maps like nuubia and ash, you will not see many steyrs out there.  They'll be switched for weapons like the mp5 and the AK.  Same goes with the semi's too. 

I already addressed the whole certain weapons in certain situations argument, read earlier in the thread.  I'll repost it for you:

This is true, but much more-so in competitive environments, which is exactly why I'm saying attempting to balance the weapons for competition is wrong.

If anything this is just further argument to stop attempting to balance the weapons for competition.

And you also seem to be saying that the weapons are now all very similar to each other and have lost their uniqueness?  That is just a bull-crap statement.  The only 2 weapons that are even remotely similar are the AK and the Minimi, and even that is stretching it, quite a bit.  Look through the weapons once, each one fires completely differently, and has different uses.  From range of shots, to types of bullets shot, and even the quickness of firing bullets.

Of course they are all still somewhat unique, but much less so in comparison to how they were in 1.2.

Now your last point seems to be that 1.2 is "funner" (need I quote your last post about insulting someone on their English) then 1.4.  That is something that is different in everyone's eyes.  While yes the weapons deal less damage on average.  And the gameplay may be a bit slower, I along with many others still find this game enjoyable. 

I still find it fun too, just not as fun.  Everyone knows that is a matter of opinion.

[6th_account]

If anything this is just further argument to stop attempting to balance the weapons for competition.

If you thought we were trying to balance the weapons to be equal in every situation you're probably the only person who's has ever been so wrong in the history of forum discussions. One of the main points is to distribute their usage equally over a large set of maps and players. Not to have the most popular gun contribute for a third of all kills on the server.

And how do you mean "less unique"? Give some examples.. not just one or two.

[Yes]

Powerfulness. Spray. Ease of use, you needed less hits(read: skill) to kill.

Deagles were overpowered and overused, so was Mp5 a bit.

Yeah i think it was a powerful balance and really easy to use. It was a good a balance because all weapons were actually balanced. I still play with that balance since its so cool.

[placid]

If you thought we were trying to balance the weapons to be equal in every situation you're probably the only person who's has ever been so wrong in the history of forum discussions. One of the main points is to distribute their usage equally over a large set of maps and players. Not to have the most popular gun contribute for a third of all kills on the server.

Are you talking about competition or pubs?

And how do you mean "less unique"? Give some examples.. not just one or two.

The ak and minimi used to be fearsome long range weapons, steyr was mid-range, mp5 close range.  The steyr and mp5 may still fit their molds, but ak and minimi not so much, and thus steyr is out of it's mold as well.  There's 3 examples.

[The Owls]

That is 2 examples, and for a completely different reason.  Steyr and mp5 are both still unique.  While the AK and minimi are also unique, the line between them is a bit thinner.  But none the less, they are 2 completely different weapons.  The massive bink and huge clip on the minimi makes it unlike any other auto.  The AK is a bit similar but toned down clip and bink wise to make for a more accurate gun. 

I still don't see any grounds for you to say that the weapons aren't unique. 

[Veritas]

The steyr is only out of the mold because its (usually) the best auto.
The weapons themselves are still unique, I use the AK as my usual weapon and can't use the minimi as well as someone like Poop, who uses it more often than I do. Skill in a particular auto doesn't mean you're good with all autos, thus, the autos are unique.
Obviously the semi-autos and one-hits are unique as well.

[LtKillroy]

I wouldn't say steyr is the best, but its definately the most versitile. AK beats it everytime long, MP5 short, but definately not vice versa. They are relatively unique, but not unique weapons are like knife or saw and like barret, they are different. Most are unique, but really not that much, a few meters more range or a few more damage, but nothing spectacular, just enough to make a great diverse game.

[6th_account]

If you thought we were trying to balance the weapons to be equal in every situation you're probably the only person who's has ever been so wrong in the history of forum discussions. One of the main points is to distribute their usage equally over a large set of maps and players. Not to have the most popular gun contribute for a third of all kills on the server.

Are you talking about competition or pubs?

And how do you mean "less unique"? Give some examples.. not just one or two.

The ak and minimi used to be fearsome long range weapons, steyr was mid-range, mp5 close range.  The steyr and mp5 may still fit their molds, but ak and minimi not so much, and thus steyr is out of it's mold as well.  There's 3 examples.

1) Both
2) Steyr was and still is all-range, mp5's niche is still close-range. And Ak is still the "best" long-range weapon. Minimi's behaviour has been altered the most, but even if they all were changed, how does that make them less unique? According to those "examples" all you stated was that 1.4.2 weapons aren't like 1.2.1 weapons. You never gave a reason what makes the guns less unique.

[/L]

1.2 is not 'funner' than 1.4. Each weapon still has it's specialty, it's just that some weapons have more advantages in ALL areas than others.

[6th_account]

Placid isn't saying much, haply owned? This victory warrants the Batman sound effects loop!

POW!
ZAP!
BOPYOWoooooo

[placid]

Placid isn't saying much, haply owned? This victory warrants the Batman sound effects loop!

POW!
ZAP!
BOPYOWoooooo

I only post while I'm at work, and I don't work on the weekends.

Apparently I don't know how to fully describe that the ak/minimi/steyr are all less unique and more alike now than they were in 1.2, so I'm not gonna try.

This whole argument has gotten really tired, I guess you could say I got owned if you like, you win the argument.  I guess I have no real basis for my argument, it's just my stubborn headed point, so I'm sticking to it, and that is that 1.2 is the funnest version of soldat thus far.

[Kai]

Apparently I don't know how to fully describe that the ak/minimi/steyr are all less unique and more alike now than they were in 1.2, so I'm not gonna try.

This whole argument has gotten really tired, I guess you could say I got owned if you like, you win the argument.  I guess I have no real basis for my argument, it's just my stubborn headed point, so I'm sticking to it, and that is that 1.2 is the funnest version of soldat thus far.

U're not alone in that placid. I feel the same way. Not as fun as it used to be. Can't explain it so dont ask me to do so.
I guess that constant balancing made game somewhat slow. Weapon discussion is something I avoid to go into.
Actually I guess im kinda hurt cause all my skillz are blown away with each weapon balance.

Placid isn't saying much, haply owned? This victory warrants the Batman sound effects loop!

POW!
ZAP!
BOPYOWoooooo

lol what tha ... was that? I must say that is sad to discussing driven only by competitive need to win the argument.....
Very immature...


Grow up.

[Veritas]

Is it just me or is no one ever able to take a joke from 6th Account?

[BlueBerry Pie]

The Ruger was definitely overpowered.  Its fire rate and damage amount was too high and wiped out every weapon.  There was also too many sprayers and it was mainly an all out Barrett war.  

But I think the minigun in that version was perfect.  Its start-up time was right and the damage amount was decent.  Now the minigun is just slow and useless.  Also the HK-Mp5 was perfect, easy to kill and it was very fast.  Same problem it now has with as the minigun.

[Ouchek]

Minigun has kinda always been useless, so yeah
Also mp5 is still quite easy.

[placid]

Is it just me or is no one ever able to take a joke from 6th Account?

If that was a joke then he's horrible at conveying sarcasm, and that could help answer your question.

[7th_account]

What can I say? I'm a flamboyant joker riddled with spirit. But this isn't about me.

[Veritas]

I would say the mp5 is still pretty easy to use, but could use a bit less reload or something. I've found it to be a bit underpowered, but I might be using it inefficiently or something.

Is it just me or is no one ever able to take a joke from 6th Account?

If that was a joke then he's horrible at conveying sarcasm, and that could help answer your question.

Alternatively, you and the others that take things too seriously don't have a sense of humor.
For example, his post wasn't sarcasm.
It was, however, a joke.
QED.