Grenades: To nerf, or not to nerf?

[ElGato]

When you hit someone with nade and it brings them to 1% health, then you shoot 1 ak shot and kill him, that is essentially a nade kill, even though it shows up on the console as ak.

[/size]

I guess this is where my post became irrelevant, I consider that an ak kill. So yes it would help to reduce the use and effectiveness of the nades but I still think the kill log would show more "nade" kills.

I think that this thread is getting stupid...I would think that nades are only too powerful (they aren't) when other weapons become essentially useless. I think that nades are most useful for throwing at an arc into an enemies position. If it doesn't kill them, and it usually won't, they'll have to jump out of the way exposing them to fire.

weapon now are already become a secondary. If you could make a script that makes the weapon that deals most % of dmg to show on the top right corner, then all kill would be from nades.

other weapons become essentially useless.

they are already.

[/size]


And you really hate nades huh? I think YOU rely too much on them if your perception is that they affect almost every kill.

[excruciator]

I think that this thread is getting stupid...I would think that nades are only too powerful (they aren't) when other weapons become essentially useless. I think that nades are most useful for throwing at an arc into an enemies position. If it doesn't kill them, and it usually won't, they'll have to jump out of the way exposing them to fire.

weapon now are already become a secondary. If you could make a script that makes the weapon that deals most % of dmg to show on the top right corner, then all kill would be from nades.

other weapons become essentially useless.

they are already.

And you really hate nades huh? I think YOU rely too much on them if your perception is that they affect almost every kill.

you are right, I personally loath that kind of nade use and I have no respect whatsoever for people that rely on nade for make a kill, however do not use nade for quick kill even if im losing in a 1 on 1. I prefer to beat people just by gun skills. I can still take them on and win. But all you see in pubs are now people spraying MP5 and spamming nade everywhere to wh0re kills. Something just has to change....

there are only 3 cases which I use nades:
- to run away
- when I ran out of clip, cooldown
- when against a 1 hit killer
- when people starts to use that newbie tactic on me


This type of nade use does not apply to semi-automatic users, you elgato, are a rugerer. So nades does not affect your kills
but most automatic users uses it on a daily basis. If you have to time to, I suggest that you do this, go to #sna.gather, and spec 1-2 games, look at auto users, and count how many nade they've thrown and how many nade kills. you'll be surprized

[ElGato]

This type of nade use does not apply to semi-automatic users, you elgato, are a rugerer. So nades does not affect your kills
but most automatic users uses it on a daily basis. If you have to time to, I suggest that you do this, go to #sna.gather, and spec 1-2 games, look at auto users, and count how many nade they've thrown and how many nade kills. you'll be surprized

That's not true at all, I use grenades as much as possible and even run away to get more. I am a person you would hate playing because I use them to their full potential, nade+ruger=kill. Not only that but I use the steyr way more now so :p

Really though, nades are dominant in small maps or in games with 12 people... Any other time and they can be easily avoided.

[Poop]

I still think the kill log would show more "nade" kills.

Not really, read the second part of my post. #1 - the system might favor throwing all nades at once, which as both of us agreed creates less nade kills. #2 - the time it takes to switch over to nades and then throw them, you can be dead already.

Also, I dont mind a timer on nades EVERY time either. It will always explode at 3 seconds rather than on contact. I believe I suggested this also a year ago, but it was shot down badly by everyone. People dont like change, what can we do. 

[ElGato]

All theoretical still but I don't think it would be even worth it to try and switch to them for that reason, I rather use a secondary. All I am saying is I picture people possible camping with them or trying to use them much more efficiently than they are being used now... and with skilled players I think it could actually work for more "kills" while being less useful. All our discussions seem to go in the same direction, even ones we had in the past. Haha

[amrzi]

Loved the nades in the previous version, all from 1.2.1 to 1.4.1. They never (or rarely) killed me, was fun to see people spamming me with 4-5 of them without effect, still missing those days. But that's only the matter of netcode I guess, not the grenade itself.. Hard to compare the old and new ones, can't judge since the gameplay (at least mine) has turned upside down because of the recent changes.
The selfdamage is just good as it is now, can kill others and can nadeboost without doing great amount of damage on myself. It's quite easy to get nade kills while using autos, and the rest doesn't really matter!

[excruciator]

All theoretical still but I don't think it would be even worth it to try and switch to them for that reason, I rather use a secondary. All I am saying is I picture people possible camping with them or trying to use them much more efficiently than they are being used now... and with skilled players I think it could actually work for more "kills" while being less useful. All our discussions seem to go in the same direction, even ones we had in the past. Haha

I dont think there can be a more efficient way to use them than sprays 3 rounds and jug a nade.

A possible solution would be that of create a interval after you throw a nade and also making it impossible to fire rounds while "charging" the nade

[Pie]

What annoys me is when you throw a well placed nade to kill someone and they start ranting"OMFG MAN YOU F***ING NADEZ SPAMM3R YOU MUST F3ARZ MY 733T S|<ILLZ No0bzorz!" ect.
If everyone has nades then why do you need to whine about getting blown to pieces if you have them too.

[excruciator]

you dont get to be a great player is you use them too much.

Nade are supposed to be used either in a last resort , but now people grew so dependent on nades that they cant make any kill without it. When they ran out of nade they would say, ohhh well Im otta nades, someone kill me so I can respawn and get my nades back..

Thats not how it works!

[SDFilm]

Nades are auxiliary weapons that are very effective as a short-mid range counter-measure; but most of my kills are made with my primary weap (FN Minimi*).

I think the limited ammo of the nades both balances the weapon and adds the strategy of choosing how many nades you want to throw (unless the map has nade boxes anywhere at anytime). It also forces players to keep on their toes, looking out out for when and where their opponent throws their nade(s). Nerfing nades would make soldat bland.


* Soldat secret revealed! - If you click in that hidden space that is labled "9" under the Barrett, you'll find a secret primary weapon! It's called the FN Minimi; but only a few soldat players know of it's existence, apparently. 

[excruciator]

* Soldat secret revealed! - If you click in that hidden space that is labled "9" under the Barrett, you'll find a secret primary weapon! It's called the FN Minimi; but only a few soldat players know of it's existence, apparently. 

no its actually;
Soldat secret revealed! - You dont have to learn how to aim a gun as long as you learn to how you throw nades!

There are so many nade packs on a ctf map, that it basically makes it unlimited

I think the limited ammo of the nades both balances the weapon and adds the strategy of choosing how many nades you want to throw (unless the map has nade boxes anywhere at anytime). It also forces players to keep on their toes, looking out out for when and where their opponent throws their nade(s).

wrong! it actually force the player to retreat and go get more nades when they have no nades left!!

also, the first second that a nade was thrown it flies about the same speed as a bullet. and you also have no idea when the nade is gonna be thrown so for all of you that says "nade are easy to dodge"

its not!

[SDFilm]

wrong! it actually force the player to retreat and go get more nades when they have no nades left!!

Why would they retreat just because they haven't got any nades? Assuming that they have a good amount of health and some kind of skill with their primary weapon, I really don't see why they would actually hault their advance into the opponent's base (or anywhere else for that matter) just because they don't have nades. You make it sound as if all hope is immediately lost because the precious nades are gone and their primary weapon is somehow broken.

also, the first second that a nade was thrown it flies about the same speed as a bullet. and you also have no idea when the nade is gonna be thrown so for all of you that says "nade are easy to dodge"

its not!

Sure you can't doge it in the really close-up attacks, but it is alot easier than the M79. For a start, there is the arm throwing, they soon loose momentum and you can lookout for nades on the ground so that you don't walk over them (easier if you have modded nades). It keeps you on your toes, making you think more about your position and movement so that you don't run blindly into their nade-mines. And if you do get hit by a nade, just accept that your opponent was lucky and/or skillfull enough to kill you before you got to kill him with your primary weapon or your own nade. It's part of the game; it's called competition.

[excruciator]

When you throw nade for every kill, doubt it that he can kill anyone just by gunning.
steyr for example, takes around 9 shots to gun down someone. sometime 10 if you make several leg shots. 8 if you get 5 heads.

it doesnt seem like a lot, that 1 difference, but that is exactly why kzya is above avarage players. If you miss one, you can say goodbye bacause a better gunner can gun you down so fast, while suffering minimal damage.

about the nade are not difficult to dodge part. picture a guy standing on ground, and another flying above him, stationary. The guy standing suddendly jumps and jets to get the other guy, the other guy also jets up, but the fact is the guy that jumped is travelling faster than the fly already flying, thus reaching him, at that point he can easily throw a nade without the fear that he might miss because they are so close and because speed of the jet is added to the speed of the throw. also a auto doesnt have enough time or push back to hold the other guy off, so the outcome of the battle will solemnly depend on if the guy misses the nade or not.

you have 1-5 things that hsa the raw power of a m79 in your disposal. also those little exploding thing can fire as fast as a spas , can fly as fast as an ak bullet and also could have more range than HK... you cannot call that balanced....


EDIT: 250TH POST W00T IMMA OFFICIALLY A CAMPZOR!!!1

[Lord Frunkamunch]

Also, I dont mind a timer on nades EVERY time either. It will always explode at 3 seconds rather than on contact. I believe I suggested this also a year ago, but it was shot down badly by everyone. People dont like change, what can we do. 

It being shot down probably had more to do with it being a terrible idea than any 'fear of change'.

*EDIT*

Let's see...

it doesnt seem like a lot, that 1 difference, but that is exactly why kzya is above avarage players. If you miss one, you can say goodbye bacause a better gunner can gun you down so fast, while suffering minimal damage.

You explain thoroughly why someone using nades is screwed against a decent gunner, and yet still try to maintain that they're overpowered? Something doesn't make sense here.

about the nade are not difficult to dodge part. picture a guy standing on ground, and another flying above him, stationary. The guy standing suddendly jumps and jets to get the other guy, the other guy also jets up, but the fact is the guy that jumped is travelling faster than the fly already flying, thus reaching him, at that point he can easily throw a nade without the fear that he might miss because they are so close and because speed of the jet is added to the speed of the throw. also a auto doesnt have enough time or push back to hold the other guy off, so the outcome of the battle will solemnly depend on if the guy misses the nade or not.

Unless the guy up top has no idea what the hell he's doing, then he'll just about allways win. Your 'example' is a load of bull****.

Ooh, while we're pulling examples out of our asses, here's 'proof' that the Minigun is overpowered.

"Let's say this guy is almost dead from being shot by 3 very skilled auto users. He pulls out his Minigun, and kills every single one of them by spraying, even though he was at low life and each of the players were better than him. Therefore, the Minigun is badly overpowered and must be nerfed."

you have 1-5 things that hsa the raw power of a m79 in your disposal.

That's bull****. Moving on...

 

also those little exploding thing can fire as fast as a spas ,

Also bull****.

can fly as fast as an ak bullet

Let's see, 3 facts pulled out of your ass and counting.

also could have more range than HK... you cannot call that balanced....

Quiz time! This statement is:

a: bull****,
b: total bull****,
c: a fact pulled straight out of his ass,
d: all of the above.

[Sytrus]

When you throw nade for every kill, doubt it that he can kill anyone just by gunning.
steyr for example, takes around 9 shots to gun down someone. sometime 10 if you make several leg shots. 8 if you get 5 heads.

And? That's just like somebody who can only kill with the Mp5.

it doesnt seem like a lot, that 1 difference, but that is exactly why kzya is above avarage players. If you miss one, you can say goodbye bacause a better gunner can gun you down so fast, while suffering minimal damage.

So how are nades overpowered then?

about the nade are not difficult to dodge part. picture a guy standing on ground, and another flying above him, stationary. The guy standing suddendly jumps and jets to get the other guy, the other guy also jets up, but the fact is the guy that jumped is travelling faster than the fly already flying, thus reaching him, at that point he can easily throw a nade without the fear that he might miss because they are so close and because speed of the jet is added to the speed of the throw. also a auto doesnt have enough time or push back to hold the other guy off, so the outcome of the battle will solemnly depend on if the guy misses the nade or not.

That's not the grenade's bad. It's the faul of that dumbass flying above. If you can't get away fast enough it's your bad, the other guy could have killed the other one with any normal gun as well if he manages to do it with a nade.

you have 1-5 things that hsa the raw power of a m79 in your disposal.

Then you play on the wrong servers. I know no server with more than two nades. Also they surely don't have the same power as an M79. They don't explode on impact, fly slower and not as far.

also those little exploding thing can fire as fast as a spas

That isn't a fast fire rate at all.

can fly as fast as an ak bullet

AHAHAHAHAAAAAAH! That's pure bullshit. Pure, sole bullshit. Show me any proof for that.

and also could have more range than HK

Proof, lol. That is not true again.

[excruciator]

nade with power of m79: hit them in the foot....
firing speed of spas: just keep tapping E
Range of Hk: charge it and try to throw it as far as you can.. you'll see
moving speed of AK: from the moment the nade leaves yours hands to roughly 1 sec, the nade goes about the same as a bullet

it doesnt seem like a lot, that 1 difference, but that is exactly why kzya is above avarage players. If you miss one, you can say goodbye bacause a better gunner can gun you down so fast, while suffering minimal damage.

a summary for you 2 dolts: 1 bullet is a big difference, you might say, sure I missed 2, but 2 its a big difference. I wrote it just in case you say something like gun a easy, missing a couple is no big deal

[LtKillroy]

You forgot one Ex, the ammo of knife.
You have limited, which limits the kills that nades can get. If you hate them so much, make a server with them turned off, see how many people come.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

nade with power of m79: hit them in the foot....

Yeah, how often are you going to get easy foot shots against a decent player?* My opinion stands.

*key word here being 'decent'

firing speed of spas: just keep tapping E

Oh yeah, that approach is great if you feel like sacrificing any and all effectiveness for the sake of rapid fire. That doesn't prove they're overpowered; it proves that it's possible to do stupid things with 'em.

"Zomg, teh m79 is ovrpowerd cuz you can shot strait up an kill urself."

Next.

Range of Hk: charge it and try to throw it as far as you can.. you'll see

Big. Fuggin. Deal. The HK has the worst range of any gun except m79, and you can only get close to that range if you charge it up all the way while running at top speed. Which brings me to another point:
You make all these statements about how powerful nades are (most of them being bull**** as mentioned before), and yet those of them that CAN be accomplished while playing CAN'T be done at the same time.

You can't get the crappy range of the HK if you throw as fast as the spas. You can't get the killing power of the m79 with the HK's range, either, as the only way you get footshots is by hitting the ground (taking away the necessary speed) or by throwing straight up, and even someone as full of fresh-out-of-the-ass facts as you has to admit that a nade thrown straight up won't go anywhere.

Just to name a few fallacies.

moving speed of AK: from the moment the nade leaves yours hands to roughly 1 sec, the nade goes about the same as a bullet

So freshly pulled, you can still smell the **** on it.

a summary for you 2 dolts: 1 bullet is a big difference, you might say, sure I missed 2, but 2 its a big difference. I wrote it just in case you say something like gun a easy, missing a couple is no big deal

Ahh...English please?

[Drakor]

Yeah, how often are you going to get easy foot shots against a decent player?* My opinion stands.

*key word here being 'decent'

Oh yeah, that approach is great if you feel like sacrificing any and all effectiveness for the sake of rapid fire. That doesn't prove they're overpowered; it proves that it's possible to do stupid things with 'em.

"Zomg, teh m79 is ovrpowerd cuz you can shot strait up an kill urself."

Part A- Against a decent player? I'd say, oh, ALOT. Remember that kickjumping you do to gain speed? Pushes you up. Lot easier to hit your feet then.

And I dont know about you all, but about 99.5% of the firefights I'm in end up in the air.

the other .5% are snipers.


Part B- Nades ARE spammed. Period. End of discussion. Nadespamming is effective, no matter how you do it, your pretty much guaranteed to at least DAMAGE someone.


My Input-
If you wanna fix nadespaming- Put a REALLY little startup... He winds up the arm- Why not put in those 2-5 ticks for pulling the pin? And while we're at it, Why not put some delay between how quickly you can chuck em. That'd very QUICKLY solve the nade-spam problem- No abbility to spam, No spam. Period.

Then again, if we did this, we might get complaints that it was nerfed, with no gain.. So add a little damage... like... 1.

[excruciator]

Lord, I never said anything about how to use nade effectively, I clearly stated that nades could be thrown very fast, you can throw it fast, and you can get 1 hit kill with it

notice that I did not say anything about being effective or not. Its like using a auto, sure you can spray with it, or you can aim carefully and burst with it. But the guns are balanced based on its maximum potencial, not how people is using them.


again the part of nade has more or = range as a HK, sure HK has the 2nd worst range of all the guns in the game. But that is a primary weapon, surely you shouldn't make a secondary weapon better than a primary...

You forgot one Ex, the ammo of knife.
You have limited, which limits the kills that nades can get. If you hate them so much, make a server with them turned off, see how many people come.

you are right, nobody would come, because pplz are used to use stuff that are powerful or overpowered. thats why the only way is to post here, and nerf the nades, and let people deal with it instead of avoiding it.

And also its not that I personally loath nades, is because nades makes this game easy. you can get a lot of easy kills with it. Who wants to play a easy game?? I just think nades could be more balanced.

also lord, stop the flaming cause Im trying my best to get some rational conversation here, if you cant handle anything beside slangs and swear word  I suggest that you get out of here and chat with people with the same language skills as you possess