Grenades: To nerf, or not to nerf?

[Lord Frunkamunch]

Lord, I never said anything about how to use nade effectively, I clearly stated that nades could be thrown very fast, you can throw it fast, and you can get 1 hit kill with it

notice that I did not say anything about being effective or not. Its like using a auto, sure you can spray with it, or you can aim carefully and burst with it. But the guns are balanced based on its maximum potencial, not how people is using them.

       True, but nadespamming isn't using them to maximum potential. My main point was the way you named out all the stats as if they could all be accomplished in a single throw.

again the part of nade has more or = range as a HK, sure HK has the 2nd worst range of all the guns in the game. But that is a primary weapon, surely you shouldn't make a secondary weapon better than a primary...

       Half the other secondary weapon have better range than the HK, but they're still worse because range isn't the only defining stat.
       Even if nades *did* have the range of the HK, that alone wouldn't be enough to make it "better than a primary".

you are right, nobody would come, because pplz are used to use stuff that are powerful or overpowered.

       That, or most people think they're more or less balanced.

And also its not that I personally loath nades, is because nades makes this game easy. you can get a lot of easy kills with it. Who wants to play a easy game?? I just think nades could be more balanced.

       I dunno, judging from this...

you are right, I personally loath that kind of nade use and I have no respect whatsoever for people that rely on nade for make a kill, however do not use nade for quick kill even if im losing in a 1 on 1. I prefer to beat people just by gun skills. I can still take them on and win. But all you see in pubs are now people spraying MP5 and spamming nade everywhere to wh0re kills. Something just has to change....

there are only 3 cases which I use nades:
- to run away
- when I ran out of clip, cooldown
- when against a 1 hit killer
- when people starts to use that newbie tactic on me

...it looks like you decide against using then where most people would. I'd consider loathing people who use nades combined with autos to get kills a definite bias. Especially given that that's a legitimate tactic that benifits the weapon. You even said in the post that

This type of nade use does not apply to semi-automatic users, you elgato, are a rugerer. So nades does not affect your kills

So, basically, a nade nerf would hurt auto users a LOT more than semi auto users.
       Now, from what I've seen general opinion is that autos are a bit underpowered. I don't see anything wrong with using grenades in a situation where they're screwed otherwise. And I'm not talking about cases where they're screwed because of a higher skill level on the other side, I'm talking about cases that SHOULD be there because of the way the weapons were purposefully balanced.
       Auto users are practically supposed to use nades a lot, it's a good strategy that benefits the weapon. As for flaming...Technically, I've just been calling a few 'facts' bull****. That's more insulting the argument that you. I guess SOME people would take offense to the phrase "pulled out of your ass" but...really, it's just a phrase I find funny; I fail to see why you would actually care.

[excruciator]

again the part of nade has more or = range as a HK, sure HK has the 2nd worst range of all the guns in the game. But that is a primary weapon, surely you shouldn't make a secondary weapon better than a primary...

       Half the other secondary weapon have better range than the HK, but they're still worse because range isn't the only defining stat.
       Even if nades *did* have the range of the HK, that alone wouldn't be enough to make it "better than a primary".

true. Range is not only the defining stat of a weapon, but it is a asset that the weapon possess, plus nade has a lot of power, and that power does not decrease with range. also nade has a lot of inicial velocity, and added to the speed of the player makes it very fast, not all the way, but for a sec or so, eventhough its small, but thats another asset of the nade.
Also nade can be charged while firing a gun, which has a lot of advantage over other secondaries because no other secondary can be fired while firing the primary.... you have to admit that nade are very powerful.

nd also its not that I personally loath nades, is because nades makes this game easy. you can get a lot of easy kills with it. Who wants to play a easy game?? I just think nades could be more balanced.

     

I dunno, judging from this...

you are right, I personally loath that kind of nade use and I have no respect whatsoever for people that rely on nade for make a kill, however do not use nade for quick kill even if im losing in a 1 on 1. I prefer to beat people just by gun skills. I can still take them on and win. But all you see in pubs are now people spraying MP5 and spamming nade everywhere to wh0re kills. Something just has to change....

there are only 3 cases which I use nades:
- to run away
- when I ran out of clip, cooldown
- when against a 1 hit killer
- when people starts to use that newbie tactic on me

hah I knew that when I wrote it you are gonna bring that part up. Yes I do hate nades, because I lose many 1 on 1s just because the other guy would go high and cheap to lock me into tight corners and nade me.

and yes, I am biased. But then again, you have to take a side if you want to make your argument understandable and clear to others.

this is a table of guns that I think is easiest or hardest to master

easy level
- barrett
- auto
medium
- semi
- auto
Master
- auto
- barrett

its really hard to achieve 100% hit rate or even 90% hit rate. So many would simply start nading to achieve the same kind of performance while lazily skipping that final part and the most useful part of the auto skill.

So..I think auto should just deal with it...

last thing, Im clearly losing this arguement so all I want to say is this, sure nade can stay the way it is. Infact, it might be making it easier to us pure-gunners. We can simply maintain the distance and gun them down.. Its way harder to fight a pure-gunner than a nade bitch...

[Lord Frunkamunch]

also nade has a lot of inicial velocity, and added to the speed of the player makes it very fast, not all the way, but for a sec or so,

Ah, but initial velocity doesn't do much for the range given how quickly it goes away.

and yes, I am biased. But then again, you have to take a side if you want to make your argument understandable and clear to others.

Good point; I suppose my saying you're biased is somewhat redundant given everyone is. I'm obviously biased toward not changing nades, but I definitely agree with you in that a good gunner will beat the **** out of someone who wastes time throwing nades during a firefight. I just get a different conclusion. After all, if in the end guns win, why nerf nades?


btw...

And also its not that I personally loath nades,

Yes I do hate nades,

[Pie]

nade with power of m79: hit them in the foot....
firing speed of spas: just keep tapping E
Range of Hk: charge it and try to throw it as far as you can.. you'll see
moving speed of AK: from the moment the nade leaves yours hands to roughly 1 sec, the nade goes about the same as a bullet
 You say keep tapping E, but all your nades end up at your feet, then what boom?? You're dead! SUCKS TO BE YOU. Probleme solved. Don't be a twat and blow all your nades at once

it doesnt seem like a lot, that 1 difference, but that is exactly why kzya is above avarage players. If you miss one, you can say goodbye bacause a better gunner can gun you down so fast, while suffering minimal damage.

a summary for you 2 dolts: 1 bullet is a big difference, you might say, sure I missed 2, but 2 its a big difference. I wrote it just in case you say something like gun a easy, missing a couple is no big deal

[Supernaut]

Grenades already has been nerfed as far as I remember, I got many kills with nades in 1.2, while now I need to back them up with my weapons. I don't like this nerf but looking at the people who think an ultra close range, slow speed,  hard to aim commonly available weapon should be nerfed I don't think I could get the old nades back.

[M.rSnow]

I only us nades for action nade jumping, and feet shots. I really don't see the problem whit them..

[darkangel]

I'm personal hate NADER'S  cause i usually use m79 and is pretty annoying went a Nader come full speed to u and trow a nade in mid air and u shot Ur m79 shell and..........POWN the nade kill u,why u have no idea ,the m79 shell is stronger than a nade i guess so wtf!!!! or i hate people who nade the hell out of u until some nade fall under u or hit u that's f$ck up man really i think nades are overpowered u need to slow the damage rate or make them more easly to trow

[excruciator]

I tried to play a DM match with only nades and a barrett, I only made 3 kills with the barrett yet I was able to have a score of 30 and 18. Thats how good nade is.

[Supernaut]

OMG!!! OVERPOWER!!!

I played a dm with ruger, knife and nades, I got a score like 94 to 45. Which one of my weapons was overpowered?

(*hint* I don't use ruger daily nor do I use knife *hint*)

[Lord Frunkamunch]

Trick question!

Answer: None of them, the people you were playing sucked and not using Ruger and knife everyday didn't have much affect!


So, what do I win?

[SDFilm]

I'm personal hate NADER'S cause i usually use m79 and is pretty annoying went a Nader come full speed to u and trow a nade in mid air and u shot Ur m79 shell and..........POWN the nade kill u,why u have no idea ,the m79 shell is stronger than a nade i guess so wtf!!!! or i hate people who nade the hell out of u until some nade fall under u or hit u that's f$ck up man really i think nades are overpowered u need to slow the damage rate or make them more easly to trow

The M79 has longer range than the nade, so the "nader" deserved to get that kill.

Also..

BTW, I appreciate that you are from Mexico, but please try not to use lazy English. Instead use 'you' instead of 'u', ‘your’ or ‘you’re’ instead of ‘ur’ and use capital letters at the start of a sentence.

---------

OMG!!! OVERPOWER!!!

I played a dm with ruger, knife and nades, I got a score like 94 to 45. Which one of my weapons was overpowered?

(*hint* I don't use ruger daily nor do I use knife *hint*)

Trick question!

Answer: None of them, the people you were playing sucked and not using Ruger and knife everyday didn't have much affect!


So, what do I win?

Ideed. Getting a decent K:D with mostly nades shows that your opponents were not good with their primary weapons or counter-nadeing.

[excruciator]

even If you played with noobs you shouldnt win with a complementary. So in the end, is still overpowered.

[SDFilm]

Well if the opponent is unable to kill you with their primary weapon, dodging (if the circumstances allow it) or by nading you back, you deserve to win. "waaah its overpowerd!!1" is not a good way to develop as a good player.

[excruciator]

The point is that the nade can be a primary all by itself, not how bad the players are playing, stick to the topic.
and if you want to write a tutorial to soldat greatness you are welcome to do one in the general discussion section, I look forward to that work of yours. and also becomin a stickeh, might be your first one...hows that sound...

[Supernaut]

So in the end weapons aren't overpowered. It's just people who suck at playing the game more or less.

Grenades can be a primary themself? Play against any decent player and see if you can back up that "proof".

[excruciator]

So in the end weapons aren't overpowered. It's just people who suck at playing the game more or less.

Grenades can be a primary themself? Play against any decent player and see if you can back up that "proof".

'


you still not getting it..

even if the weapon is good, it might not be great. sure you can saw away using it as a primary but it wont stand against a good player. I did not say anything about being great against skilled players. No primary can always win against a good player.

[Supernaut]

Or you. Maybe we both miss the point, but I think sentences I say are self explanatory.

[excruciator]

Or you. Maybe we both miss the point, but I think sentences I say are self explanatory.

why dont you bring up any counter arguements instead of disagreeing everything I said like the mule in family guy hah..

gonna post the link of that thing later.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

So wait, grenades are overpowered because they're as powerful as a primary? Even if that were true (and it's not, in case you hadn't figured that out) who's to say that's a bad thing? Say they were supposed to be that powerful in the first place? Is it overpowered as a 11th primary?

And I think you've forgotten the one most important thing. Everyone. Gets. Nades. They could be homing nukes that kill the entire map instantly and they wouldn't be overpowered, because by nades alone, no single player has an advantage other any other player.

[Supernaut]

I brought up a counter argument that said 'people you played with sucked. so your score wasn't anything exceptional' . What you said later was like 'but you shouldnt be supposed to kill noobs with nades easily' and that's not a viable argument.