Grenades: To nerf, or not to nerf?

[excruciator]

what kind of score do you want?? 30 0? if there was that big of a difference then Betatester would nerfed it already.
Its still overwhelms me how powerful nades is even if the score wasn't surprizingly good.

also Lord, Having played with you, I noticed that you are a very nade depended person, (a good deagle also, but I'll stick to the nade part) from the 21 kill that you made, I assume that at least 17 is made with some sort of nade and gun combination.

and from the 21 kill I made, I think only 6 is actually from a nade and gun combo.

Also the fact that usually the weapon should maintain in a balance of power. Like primary, secondary then complementary.
But now the complementary is used more than the secondary, or a primary. Sure everyone has them. But I think the creator of Soldat meant to make the nade a good side arm but not something you should grew too depended on.

But the fact is that the all games are really heavily nade based. I mean you just can't make to the other end of the base unharmed without chucking any nades.

I mean you cant really own anyone with a HE nade in CS cant you? I know its not CS but I dont know any FPS or Side shooters that heavily depends on the nades.

I dont think a nade nerf is needed, I just think spawning time of nades packs should be lowered so people would use nades with caution.

[Kerrazyeye]

I dont know if its been suggested, but I am totally in favor of having nades detonate after say...2-3 seconds. Whether they are in the air or not. Nades that hit a soldat just bounce off, drop down. It always bugged me that a nade could hit a poly, and explode 2 seconds later, but if it hit a soldat, immediately detonated.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

also Lord, Having played with you, I noticed that you are a very nade depended person, (a good deagle also, but I'll stick to the nade part) from the 21 kill that you made, I assume that at least 17 is made with some sort of nade and gun combination.

and from the 21 kill I made, I think only 6 is actually from a nade and gun combo.

Yeah, if I have nades I'll take advantage of them. That's not exactly being dependent. And think about what you just said, will you? If we make the same score, then there's either a huge skill difference  (and I'm not ruling that out, but I personally doubt this because it'd have to be indeed huge to make that much of a difference) or the weapon balance is pretty close. After all, throwing a nade during is not without it's disadvantages. There's no guarantee you'll hit (especially with the bad range) and you'll get the feck shot out of you if you waste too much time.

I dont think a nade nerf is needed, I just think spawning time of nades packs should be lowered so people would use nades with caution.

So basically, this discussion is now moot. This is already possible. Sure, you can say that the average crate respawn time is too fast, but that's the server owner's choice, and the only way that's gonna be changed is to take away the choice altogether, which is not gonna happen, for good reason.

[excruciator]

Quote from: excruciator on Today at 04:23:04 PM
also Lord, Having played with you, I noticed that you are a very nade depended person, (a good deagle also, but I'll stick to the nade part) from the 21 kill that you made, I assume that at least 17 is made with some sort of nade and gun combination.

and from the 21 kill I made, I think only 6 is actually from a nade and gun combo.

Yeah, if I have nades I'll take advantage of them. That's not exactly being dependent. And think about what you just said, will you? If we make the same score, then there's either a huge skill difference  (and I'm not ruling that out, but I personally doubt this because it'd have to be indeed huge to make that much of a difference) or the weapon balance is pretty close. After all, throwing a nade during is not without it's disadvantages. There's no guarantee you'll hit (especially with the bad range) and you'll get the feck shot out of you if you waste too much time.

thats what a alcoholic would say to someone that tells them that they are addiction(or dependent) on alcohol.
"No, im not an addict!!! I use them whenever I can because you first can use it, 2nd it makes me happy!!! You Shut up!!!!"

Wow its not without disavantage... Hell everything has a disavantage... but the trade off it worth it to you, hell you can make laws spitting out of a minigun you still have the disavantage of missing... but overpowered is still overpowered.


Date Posted: October 30, 2007, 04:44:48 pm

I dont think a nade nerf is needed, I just think spawning time of nades packs should be lowered so people would use nades with caution.

So basically, this discussion is now moot. This is already possible. Sure, you can say that the average crate respawn time is too fast, but that's the server owner's choice, and the only way that's gonna be changed is to take away the choice altogether, which is not gonna happen, for good reason.

an alternative yes, but If you want to make it right make the delay on throw longer and make the range smaller.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

I think you're missing my point here. That's not exactly what I meant...

[SDFilm]

The point is that the nade can be a primary all by itself, not how bad the players are playing, stick to the topic.
and if you want to write a tutorial to soldat greatness you are welcome to do one in the general discussion section, I look forward to that work of yours. and also becomin a stickeh, might be your first one...hows that sound...

What I meant is that it's better to learn how to cope with them instead of trying to get them nerfed. I really don't see how nades are overpowered to the extent that they ruin gameplay. I'd image that you'd respond to this by acting as if I'm asking you to just "cope with" an automatic Barrett. It's not, it's just nades, those things that everyone has which deepens the gameplay with a usefull auxiliary weapon that supplements the combat instead of dominating it.

Really, how is it overpowered? Even the ever-whining voices of the public servers rarely shout "nade noob". Maybe they are annoying to semi-auto users that don't benefit from the push-back affect that autos give, thus making M79 style nade rushes more affective. And even then, the nade-rushes have been nerfed with a significant rise in self-damage.

What is your vision of a perfectly balanced grenade? An unnecessarily large arm movement before throwing? A Ruger shot? an AK shot? an MP5 shot?

[excruciator]

no just 1 nade, and people using it with skill and timing. Instead of throwing it everytime they see someone.

I like nade, when its used skillfully by skilled people to get out of tight situations. But I hate it when people just try to use it as a primary by dealing the majority the dmg with it so they can compensate their nooby gun skills.

and I wonder how could there be a weapon change with people all saying that you should try to cope with it.

[-Vis-]

The time taken to throw a nade would stay the same, but the time in between each throw would increase slightly. It would certainly help prevent nade spamming, but I'm not saying it's necessary. I don't mind the way nades are now, but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing this change either. Leave everything else the way it is.

[Supernaut]

Once again, it's server owner's choice. You can change nade number in settings, so there's nothing to nerf etc. You can make a rant and try convincing people to give others less nades.

[excruciator]

Once again, it's server owner's choice. You can change nade number in settings, so there's nothing to nerf etc. You can make a rant and try convincing people to give others less nades.

or just make the maximum carrying capacity to 2.

jesus I'm trying to make some compromise, I'm trying to be very reasonable here supernaut and you should learn to not be ungrateful when the guy is trying to do the right thing.


jesus people cant argue to my points because im right and want me to stop by asking me to "cope" with it.

I wrote a half a page here and only thing lord quoted is the score part.

[Supernaut]

But I don't think you are right! . Stop making people play the way you want... You can't argue with that we like to play with more than 1 nade.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

or just make the maximum carrying capacity to 2.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

...

Look, if people want to have a 2 nade limit on their server, they can. Making the maximum 2 would be retarded. It would mean nothing different for the people who already made 2 the limit, and piss off everyone who didn't want it and had the choice taken from them.

jesus I'm trying to make some compromise, I'm trying to be very reasonable here supernaut and you should learn to not be ungrateful when the guy is trying to do the right thing.

Compromise? Making a 'compromise' would imply that each side has valid reasoning and not a few scattered examples. Nothing like the case at hand. And who are you to say what the "right thing" even is?

It's not like your word is supreme law; I'd wouldn't consider claiming such

very reasonable

Oh, wait, never mind that. I must have made a mistake. You couldn't be wrong, this proves it

jesus people cant argue to my points because im right

No, I guess it couldn't possibly have anything to do with you conveniently ignoring everything said that doesn't agree with you 'argument'. Carry on.

[SDFilm]

jesus people cant argue to my points because im right and want me to stop by asking me to "cope" with it.

If I thought you were right, I would have agreed with you. Why would I want you to not make good points? This forum exists for people to give good points. So by all means, go ahead, show us your spectacular wisdom and knowledge. We're all waiting.

[excruciator]

jesus people cant argue to my points because im right and want me to stop by asking me to "cope" with it.

If I thought you were right, I would have agreed with you. Why would I want you to not make good points? This forum exists for people to give good points. So by all means, go ahead, show us your spectacular wisdom and knowledge. We're all waiting.

Point out where I am wrong and I shall explain to you

Date Posted: October 31, 2007, 10:07:48 am2 would be retarded because then it could not sadisfy people with cronic nade dependecy like you.
I know how you would play, I 1 on 1ed you,  you are very dependent on nade, and if you are ran out of nade Id say your skill is the same as a major. You can't make a kill with the gun!

[Xaero]

No nerf.

[SDFilm]

Point out where I am wrong and I shall explain to you

I'm not going to spend time sifting thorugh your your flameing. But here is something for you to look at- Nades are not overpowered. Now please explain to me why they are not.

2 would be retarded because then it could not sadisfy people with cronic nade dependecy like you.
I know how you would play, I 1 on 1ed you,  you are very dependent on nade, and if you are ran out of nade Id say your skill is the same as a major. You can't make a kill with the gun!

A lot of my kills are made with my trusty Minimi. Infact that's one of the reasons why the nades aren't overpowered- I don't need to use nades to kill. I'm saying the nades are not overpowered because they are not overpowered; I wouldn't be a good Beta tester if I only buffed weapons that I personally use. Now it just looks like you are resorting to petty flaming instead of giving real facts.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

And so it was that excruciator lost his last shred of credibility.

[numgun]

Greandes are limited anyways so they are fine.

[The Owls]

Excruciator, you seem to talk of how everyone sucks with guns except for you because they use nades.  So what your saying that if someone kills people with a grenade, then by default they must have incredibly bad aiming (except for you of course because you are apparently an amazing autoer who never misses a shot) 

You also say that you played in sna.gather and saw that everyone there used grenades for all of their kills.  Well, this is true, but in now way does that mean that it doesn't take skill.  Poping off a well placed grenade into your enemy in the midst of a volley of bullets is one of the harder things to master in this game.  I personally don't see this as cheap in anyway, because it's not something you'll see bad players do, simply because they can't.  Now don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the people who spam all three of their grenades at one enemy trying to get one to hit, I'm referring to the players who can place that one grenade almost every time. 

The only balance grenades really need, is a slow rate of throw, so people just can't go around and spam out all three (or four in some cases) at once. 

[why123]

Also you seem to disregard the fact the time it would take to switch over to nades, in which amount of time you can be dead alreadywelding wire  (just think of all those times you just died before throwing off that knife). Great Wall   Many people when they see someone will automatically throw a nade or all nades, with this feature that wont be possible, so what do you do, switch to nades or keep using primary? Theres a tradeoff.WOW Gold