Poll

Do you approve of this idea?

Yes, definately!
Yes, but possibly more issues may arrise
I'll say yes
Eh, with a little change
Almost, but no
Sorry, I'm not in for it
Kinda stupid
No point, so i give no attention
Hell no!

Author Topic: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"  (Read 7464 times)

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Offline jbigz

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"Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« on: July 10, 2006, 08:35:17 pm »
This is just pretty fast, but i think certain guns should have different firing styles. Like a new button can be assigned to switch guns to "Burst-Fire" or "Semi-Auto" or other types. What first came to mind was being able to choose a shell shotgun. I personally dont like the spray, but i guess a shell shotgun would be unfair, like an m79 that doesnt explode.

But what im trying to get at is Burst fire or Semi Auto/Auto. Like make the AUG shoot burst-fire (shoot like 3-5 round bursts) with reduced bink. Or make usually semi-auto guns auto, increasing bink and maybe slightly increasing fire rate. Make using guns even more strategic.

Also, an option for the M79... I hate it so much, but hey if this came into effect, maybe m79s could also shoot weak cluster grenades. Definately not one hit kill, it would be cheap.

Okay people, flame/praise me. It might have been brought up before, but i think this would really make gameplay more entertaining than it already is. If it is only liked by some, maybe it could be put in only in Realistic or a special mode iono...

PS: first vote is mine

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« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 09:06:38 pm by jbigz »

Offline Plonkoon

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Re: Quickie Suggestion
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2006, 08:45:58 pm »
I wouldn't want a gun to only burst becuase it's easy enough to do it manually and still be able to hold it down when you need to.

Offline jbigz

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Re: Different Firing Methods
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2006, 08:53:29 pm »
its like an option. it wouldnt ONLY burst, but i mean it could for more inexperienced users, and the bullets would fire slightly quicker in succession.

Offline iDante

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Re: Different Firing Methods
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2006, 09:00:01 pm »
I think this would add a lot of balance issues, but if you find a way, I support it.

Offline jbigz

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2006, 09:05:37 pm »
yes possibly balance issues may come to mind, but if almost every gun has multiple ways of firing, each one fits a different situation to a different extent. One gun could be used to fight in 2 ways. For example, if shell shotguns were implemented, the shotgun shell could be fired mid to mid-long range, and switch back to spray shot for close range encounters.

Also, if it was an instant switch, it WOULD be unfair. So probably there would be like a 1-2 second switching time. Make it more fair. But obviously switching times would vary with guns.

Offline Sotija

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2006, 10:50:11 pm »
This is suggested before.And they said no i sayed no,and i say now no.

Offline MofoNofo

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 11:01:55 pm »
No, ever heard of clicking your mouse button?

Offline X-Rayz

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2006, 12:17:11 am »
This is suggested before.And they said no i sayed no,and i say now no.

That was confusing.

I dunno. Sometimes i think yes. Sometimes i think its dumb. So i'll do almost.

Offline Meep.

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2006, 12:26:02 am »
I wouldn't mind burst firing; I try to do it manully most of the time.

Offline T-Bone

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2006, 12:44:36 am »
i alwats burst when i use autos, so i keep my accuracy up and my selfbink down.
Your acting like your having a duel and your opponent gets a pistol and you get a spork.
Isn't that pretty much what it is? I dunno wtf a spork is, I suppose it's way weaker than the pistol since you compared that to this.

Offline MofoNofo

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2006, 01:28:28 am »
Yeah, lets have this in soldat....*coughchoke*

(*download the demo i made*)

Offline Stalky

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2006, 06:14:08 am »
Having so many poll options makes the results unclear. Five people have said 'Hell no!', compared to the two that have said 'Yes, definitely!'.

Now tell me, if it had just been 'Yes' and 'No', would the two people who voted 'Yes, but possibly more issues may arise' and the one person who voted 'I'll say yes' have just gone for the straight 'Yes'? In that case, would there have been five 'Yes' votes to match the five 'Hell no!' votes you already have? Oh, but then where would the 'Almost, but no', 'Sorry, I'm not in for it' and 'No point, so I give no attention' voters gone?

This is why I explicitly suggested in the rules that you only have simple 'Yes' and 'No' options for your poll. Bear that in mind in future.

Offline MofoNofo

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2006, 08:32:33 am »
5 people said "Yes" (basically) and 12 said "No" (basically)

Offline Twistkill

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2006, 08:37:20 am »
No, because I always rapidly click the mouse button when I'm using the Minimi, so I have the same rate of fire but it never binks. The burst fire would also cause more balance issues. :-\

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Offline Mr. Domino

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2006, 09:00:03 am »
Autos should "burst fire" as a minimum. Being able to click out single bullets both breaks the bink system and makes the large bullet cache so much more of an advantage than other non-auto guns. Most autos can kill in about eight bullets, giving them anywhere from 3-5 kills per reload. Compare that with the Ruger or Desert Eagles which are only capable of 1-2 kills per reload, with the added challenge of actually having to aim precisely instead of just firing in the general direction since every bullet has to count. As far as I'm concerned, the lack of "burst fire" and binkless shooting along with the large bullet cache is already causing balance issues.

Offline Twistkill

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2006, 10:21:15 am »
Autos should "burst fire" as a minimum. Being able to click out single bullets both breaks the bink system and makes the large bullet cache so much more of an advantage than other non-auto guns. Most autos can kill in about eight bullets, giving them anywhere from 3-5 kills per reload. Compare that with the Ruger or Desert Eagles which are only capable of 1-2 kills per reload, with the added challenge of actually having to aim precisely instead of just firing in the general direction since every bullet has to count. As far as I'm concerned, the lack of "burst fire" and binkless shooting along with the large bullet cache is already causing balance issues.
I see where you're coming from, but it's not like it's cheating. That's only possible if auto users actually land every shot, and even then, you have to take in the account that some shots might not register because of lag. I doubt any human on this earth that plays Soldat could land every shot with an auto successfully. It's a tactical way of firing an auto, and those who don't utilize the technique shall miss quite often.

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Offline RabidTreeFrog

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2006, 11:35:48 am »
Can't you just click the mouse?

Or if you are suggesting alt-fire modes, it will probably add balance issues.
not around

Offline viggoloniggolo

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2006, 12:05:48 pm »
if its balanced perfectly, I'm saying "yeah" to this suggestion.

Offline Mr. Domino

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2006, 01:02:57 pm »
That's only possible if auto users actually land every shot, and even then, you have to take in the account that some shots might not register because of lag. I doubt any human on this earth that plays Soldat could land every shot with an auto successfully.

This is different from any other weapon how? It also doesn't require everyone to land every shot. A Ruger can theoretically take out two people, but this would require all shots to not only register in-game but also be perfect headshots. For a Minimi to do the same requires 16 body shots, and the Minimi would still be able to miss 34 shots and accomplish the same amount of kills. This is unlikely, and it's not difficult to ring up 3-4 kills per reload.

Considering that autos are the binking weapon in-game -- that is, the way the bink system is setup, they're the ones with the advantage of messing up an enemy's aim -- tap-tap firing circumvents the only weaknesses the weapons have (had): 1) selfbink and 2) inaccuracy. Plus, this doesn't separate them enough from true single fire weapons; autos should not be single fire weapons with a greatly expanded bullet cache. Either force the burst firing or create a small delay to rid the ability of clicking out bullets, because right now the only real auto weapon is the minigun, and that's only because the delay forces you to avoid rapid clicking to fire.

Offline Twistkill

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2006, 02:00:59 pm »
That's only possible if auto users actually land every shot, and even then, you have to take in the account that some shots might not register because of lag. I doubt any human on this earth that plays Soldat could land every shot with an auto successfully.

This is different from any other weapon how? It also doesn't require everyone to land every shot. A Ruger can theoretically take out two people, but this would require all shots to not only register in-game but also be perfect headshots. For a Minimi to do the same requires 16 body shots, and the Minimi would still be able to miss 34 shots and accomplish the same amount of kills. This is unlikely, and it's not difficult to ring up 3-4 kills per reload.

Considering that autos are the binking weapon in-game -- that is, the way the bink system is setup, they're the ones with the advantage of messing up an enemy's aim -- tap-tap firing circumvents the only weaknesses the weapons have (had): 1) selfbink and 2) inaccuracy. Plus, this doesn't separate them enough from true single fire weapons; autos should not be single fire weapons with a greatly expanded bullet cache. Either force the burst firing or create a small delay to rid the ability of clicking out bullets, because right now the only real auto weapon is the minigun, and that's only because the delay forces you to avoid rapid clicking to fire.
What I was implying is that it's not against the rules of Soldat to do so. It is a strategic fire method, that's all. The burst fire method could be an option, IMO, as people would now have to get used to this new method of firing. This is the first time I've seen someone make an issue out of the fact that rapidly clicking with an auto avoids the bink system. :-\

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Offline Mr. Domino

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2006, 02:21:23 pm »
What I was implying is that it's not against the rules of Soldat to do so. It is a strategic fire method, that's all. The burst fire method could be an option, IMO, as people would now have to get used to this new method of firing. This is the first time I've seen someone make an issue out of the fact that rapidly clicking with an auto avoids the bink system. :-\

Well, I could be off, but I think that if the testers and developer agreed to put bink in the game, then attempts to circumvent it with a "non-standard" firing practice does break it. It's the same as circumventing the barret's delay by pre-charging the shot. Both were added to the game to help achieve balance, but both have workarounds which negate those attempts. I think a half second or less delay would be welcomed -- it'd force autos to burst fire and be used as I think autos should be used -- like a machinegun and less like a 30-50 count Ruger.

Offline Twistkill

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2006, 02:27:01 pm »
Well, I could be off, but I think that if the testers and developer agreed to put bink in the game, then attempts to circumvent it with a "non-standard" firing practice does break it. It's the same as circumventing the barret's delay by pre-charging the shot. Both were added to the game to help achieve balance, but both have workarounds which negate those attempts. I think a half second or less delay would be welcomed -- it'd force autos to burst fire and be used as I think autos should be used -- like a machinegun and less like a 30-50 count Ruger.
Yes, that is true. I do burst fire a lot of times with autos, as well, so it doesn't affect me so much. It just struck me as odd that you are making a stand on the fact that rapidly clicking the mouse button can circumvent the bink system in autos. Meh. :)

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Offline jbigz

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2006, 01:01:56 pm »
Okay everybody, what i mean by burst-firing is not that it fires normal 3-5 rounds. I mean it will fire the 3-5 rounds at a SLIGHTLY faster rate so it is slightly more useful at longer range, or even closer range used correctly. Similar to a Glock handgun, certain ones have the "Burst-Fire" option. They fire 3 rounds in under half a second. The rounds dont go PERFECTLY straight, but are close to it. With the burst fire option, the user couldnt of possibly fired the bullets that fast. I'm saying that with burstfire, it will fire faster than usual, but delays between burstfire shots. More clear now? And also, no one has made comments about making certain guns auto/semi auto, like for instance if someone wanted to make the soccom auto, it would fire only slightly faster but with bink. More feedback plz?

Offline Mr. Domino

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2006, 03:31:44 am »
With the burst fire option, the user couldnt of possibly fired the bullets that fast. I'm saying that with burstfire, it will fire faster than usual, but delays between burstfire shots.

I think it's unnecessary. A weapon with a slow fire rate has a slow fire rate for a reason -- weapon balance. Being able to push out a few bullets at a time, even with an prolonged delay between bursts, would in effect give make the Spas, Desert Eagles, and Ruger "one-hit" weapons, capable of killing on the initial "shot." If you're going to reply saying how you mentioned that aiming wouldn't be as good, then what would be the point of wasting bullets on a single shot weapon where every bullet fired needs to count?

Offline jbigz

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Re: "Burst-Fire" and "Auto/Semi-Auto"
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2006, 03:48:05 am »

A weapon with a slow fire rate has a slow fire rate for a reason -- weapon balance. Being able to push out a few bullets at a time, even with an prolonged delay between bursts, would in effect give make the Spas, Desert Eagles, and Ruger "one-hit" weapons, capable of killing on the initial "shot." If you're going to reply saying how you mentioned that aiming wouldn't be as good, then what would be the point of wasting bullets on a single shot weapon where every bullet fired needs to count?

I didnt say ALL weapons would have burst fire, it would be a perk to a lucky ammount of the guns. Probably if it would happen as I envisioned it, half of the autos would have it. I would definately NOT give the Spas, Deagles or Ruger a Burstfire. I would give them alternate firing styles. Like i mentioned earlier, instead of a spray Spas, it might be a shell spas, just shooting a large shell.

And about your last sentence, The burst fire would be for a close range triple headshot to finish someone off. you can always do your manual accurate shooting then switch to burstfire when they are close and load them of 3 quick Steyr AUG bullets to the head. Of course that would not be the only use of it, but that would be my primary use. Or at constant close range use, it will help to conserve ammo. If you kill an enemy with your burst fire, you will probably not keep shooting because of the small delay.

May i remind all of you, this thread is not just about burst fire, but also about being able to toggle auto/semi auto, like with the soccom or deagles. toggling to auto would fire slightly faster but with higher bink. Obviously you would not have to click out each shot either, unless you could again do that for more accuracy... yeah.

More input would be greatly appreciated, to me this idea would add a slight additional portion of strategy and ammo conservatoin between reloads.