Integrated Soldat HTTP Admin

[PopeJohnPaul_II]

If you have used VNC, you may have noticed the feature that allows you to connect via a browser and Java applet. The same concept could work for administrating a Soldat server.

This can be implemented up to the point of integration by third party developers. Theoretically you could simply use an HTTP server to serve these, but due to xss restrictions the applet must be served from the local machine or the same domain/ip to create the socket connection.

Optimally the front-end would be HTML and Javascript. A hidden Flex plugin manages the socket connection to the server. The Flex-Ajax bridge allows Flex to trigger Javascript events. Attached is a diagram of the steps.

Why Flex and HTML? Flex is free and virtually everyone has the required Flash plugin. Creating an interface entirely in Flex is an option, but most of us don't have the full-fledged Flex Builder (sold commercially.) HTML can easily be utilized with a Javascript library, such as jQuery, to create user-friendly interfaces.

Feel free to comment, add to or steal from this idea.

[urraka]

Hmm... I think I didn't understand. What would be the advantage of that?

[PopeJohnPaul_II]

The advantage being: You can administrate the server from anywhere without downloading a client application. Just open up the browser, go to http://domain:port/ and login using your admin password.

[mar77a]

Yeah, like a router, except the thing should be interactive and dynamic.

Isn't it easier to just write a java applet and upload it somewhere?

[PopeJohnPaul_II]

Isn't it easier to just write a java applet and upload it somewhere?

Can Java applets make socket connections to hosts other than the host from which they were served?

[urraka]

I guess it would be easier, but you would be downloading an admin clien then, and you also need to have the java plugin i think. Also, with the java applet the connection would be done by the client, not by the server. The way he suggests would be all html, javascript, css... no need to download anything but the webpage. (and you would be able to admin from a school with blocked ports for example )

[KeYDoN]

great idea, but i guess it wont be integrated

couldn you do the same just with a extern http server? would be great

[FliesLikeABrick]

great idea, but i guess it wont be integrated

couldn you do the same just with a extern http server? would be great

yes, but things like that tend to jack up the load average on the webservers since it requires a large number of long-running processes. 

The only way to do it properly with AJAX or something is to 1) do it entirely asynchronously or 2) have the local client contact a non-http server for communication with the Soldat server. 

[bja888]

great idea, but i guess it wont be integrated

couldn you do the same just with a extern http server? would be great

yes, but things like that tend to jack up the load average on the webservers since it requires a large number of long-running processes. 

The only way to do it properly with AJAX or something is to 1) do it entirely asynchronously or 2) have the local client contact a non-http server for communication with the Soldat server. 

2nd!

Its gonna have to be really light. Soldat clients and servers where intended to run on slower computers AJAX, swf (flex) and standards complaint html will take a lot of bandwidth.

I suggest text only or extremely light xhtml, CSS and javascript. (Not IE compliant, too much BS code.)

Edit: On the other hand that shit is really fun to make. Regardless of if it is practical or not.

[FliesLikeABrick]

while I agree with most of what you said bja, I have to point out that more bandwidth doesn't immediately mean a program won't run on slower computers.


I don't know much about Flex.  Does using Flex automatically mean that Flash is going to be used on the client (in the browser)?

[PopeJohnPaul_II]

I don't know much about Flex.  Does using Flex automatically mean that Flash is going to be used on the client (in the browser)?

Yes, it's the only method that I'm aware of that will allow a connection from a web browser without polling (which takes too much bandwidth.)

[bja888]

I don't know much about Flex.  Does using Flex automatically mean that Flash is going to be used on the client (in the browser)?

Yes, it's the only method that I'm aware of that will allow a connection from a web browser without polling (which takes too much bandwidth.)

The "Push" method (I think thats what it is called) requires a Cold Fusion Server. I don't think we need to include that with a soldat server.

Yep, its push

Also, flex might be easy and fast to develop using all their wizards but there is a ton of overhead.

[FliesLikeABrick]

Eh, I can't imagine a flex-based tool being the best idea then, as flash currently is the cause of most browser performance issues.
... but then again, that is mainly for stupid animated stuff and inefficient video players.

I'd be interested to see this done, and see how it performs on older hardware and what kind of RAM footprint it has

[bja888]

Sliverlight might be a more efficient alternative. But I haven't gotten a chance to mess with it yet. I hear development is similar to flex (xml based). Anyone mess with it yet?

[FliesLikeABrick]

nothing like watching MS try to get into even more markets....  I wonder what will be next, sex toys?

[bja888]

nothing like watching MS try to get into even more markets....  I wonder what will be next, sex toys?

Microsoft Condoms.

lol, Oxymoron

[PopeJohnPaul_II]

Silverlight was another consideration of mine. The market share isn't very high, but it would be fun to toy with. Unfortunately, Linux support through the Moonlight API is largely incomplete.

Maybe I misunderstood you bja888, but Flex doesn't require a ColdFusion server for sockets. I chose Flex because it is versatile and will be released open source this quarter. Overhead should be minimal since Flash is just the medium for our socket connection, not the interface.

[FliesLikeABrick]

Aha, I was under the impression that Flash would be the interface as well.

Given the choice between Silverlight and Flex, I'd choose Flex even if it was flash on the client/interface.

So the client/interface in a Flex setup would be AJAX in nature?

[bja888]

Maybe I misunderstood you bja888, but Flex doesn't require a ColdFusion server for sockets.

I have been out of the flex loop far a while but back when I was doing inital research (like 8 months ago) there was a lot of talk about "Data Push" in relation to flex data services. On this page "Data Push" Is defined...

Data push
Flex Data Services offers data-push capability, enabling data to automatically be pushed to the client application without polling. This highly scalable capability can push data to thousands of concurrent users, providing up-to-the-second views of critical data, such as stock trader applications, live resource monitoring, shop floor automation, and more.

This is what I thought you where going to use instead of polling. The Socks connection looks solid though. IDk why they are even bothering pushing "Push" is they have solid socks.

I chose Flex because it is versatile and will be released open source this quarter.

Yep, it will lead to better linux integration. (hopeful a x64 edition) But for now flash is still larger then plain text and slow.

Overhead should be minimal since Flash is just the medium for our socket connection, not the interface.

Why?? If you going to slow down the browser by looking up and initializing flash then you might as well use it to have a nicer interface.

So the client/interface in a Flex setup would be AJAX in nature?

I think they had a code name for a project like that. It was still under development last I heard but the example I looked at had a ton of overhead as well. Like 3, 3KB javascript files or some sh**.

[PopeJohnPaul_II]

So the client/interface in a Flex setup would be AJAX in nature?

There won't necessarily be any asynchronous requests or XML since Flex will have a direct binary connection with the server. Flex will trigger Javascript events when players join, leave, chat and so on. Javascript will update the HTML interface. AJAX-like, you might say.

If you going to slow down the browser by looking up and initializing flash then you might as well use it to have a nicer interface.

Flex interfaces are bug-ridden, especially the text input. HTML and Javascript better fit into the browser. Besides, I believe everyone who's posted so far is knowledgeable in Javascript.

Flex-Ajax Bridge provides Flex/Javascript communication and is bundled with Flex.